Unless Joran was into something on the sidelines, I didn't think what deVries published really showed he was into the sex trade. The video that I saw and which deVries purportedly had made, Joran was jokingly discussing "modelling" jobs with a bunch of University students, imho. It didn't really sound very convincing that the girls were wanting to leave University for that career as one had said, and if I remember correctly, she wasn't interested for a long term.
Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #21
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Unless Joran was into something on the sidelines, I didn't think what deVries published really showed he was into the sex trade. The video that I saw and which deVries purportedly had made, Joran was jokingly discussing "modelling" jobs with a bunch of University students, imho. It didn't really sound very convincing that the girls were wanting to leave University for that career as one had said, and if I remember correctly, she wasn't interested for a long term.
I had assumed he was trying to get Thai girls to Nl, according to deVries anyway.
There were some videos on the Net where Joran displayed his Sawadee Cup and he had Thai 'waitresses'/models displaying boxes of what resembled condoms.
FLNY
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Thanks so much, Danielabc! I was hoping you'd be able to help us with this. :dance:
I just found another article where the translation is much clearer. It also confirms that the psych. testing being done on JVDS was ordered by the court, with independent testing to be done by the defense:
http://translate.google.com/transla...ecci_parent=0&txtSecci_id=2&txtNota_id=388117
Yeah, but there's an old saying that the only thing that can derail a politician is having someone find a live boy or a dead girl in his bed.
JVDS isn't technically a politician, but I think the same principle will apply.
stillwatersc
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I would hope not - an abnormal sense of entitlement would apply to any sociopath.
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(from the Natl Enquirer) I wonder where Joran came up with the alias of "Murphy Jenkins" for his sex trade operation in Thailand??? :innocent:
Peru penal code:
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/21/04230/3367
Simple Theft (Hurto Simple):
Article 185 .- Simple Theft, Article amended by paragraph 1 of Article 29 of Legislative Decree No. 1084, issued on June 28, 2008, which reads as follows:
"Whoever, for profit, unlawfully seized movable property, in whole or in part outside, removing it from the place where found, shall be punished by imprisonment of not less than one nor more than three years. They are comparable to movable electric power, gas, water and energy or any other item that has economic value as well as the electromagnetic spectrum and to fishery resources allocation mechanism of maximum catch per boat. "
Artículo 185.- Hurto Simple (Artículo modificado por el numeral 1 del Artículo 29 del Decreto Legislativo Nº 1084, publicado el 28 junio 2008, cuyo texto es el siguiente
“El que, para obtener provecho, se apodera ilegítimamente de un bien mueble, total o parcialmente ajeno, sustrayéndolo del lugar donde se encuentra, será reprimido con pena privativa de libertad no menor de uno ni mayor de tres años. Se equiparan a bien mueble la energía eléctrica, el gas, el agua y cualquier otra energía o elemento que tenga valor económico, así como el espectro electromagnético y también los recursos pesqueros objeto de un mecanismo de asignación de Límites Máximos de Captura por Embarcación.”
The murder charge: From the court's press release:
According to the prosecutor's report, the same that was presented about 04:00 pm today, Van der Sloot would have killed Flores Ramirez with the aggravation of having acted with great ferocity and cruelty, as provided in Article 108 of the Penal Code Sections 1 and 3, which defines the crime of murder.
Here's Article 108, with sections 1 and 3:
Article 108 .- Murder- Murder - Article amended by Article 1 of Law No. 28,878, published on August 17, 2006, which reads as follows:
Shall be punished by imprisonment of not less than fifteen years to kill another meet any of the following circumstances:
1. For ferocity, for profit or pleasure;
2. To facilitate or conceal another crime;
3. With great cruelty or premeditation;
4. For fire, explosion, poison or any other medium capable of endangering the life or health of others;
5. If the victim is a member of the National Police of Peru or of the Armed Forces, Head of the Judiciary or the Public Ministry, in carrying out their duties. "
“Artículo 108.- Homicidio Calificado - Asesinato (*) Artículo modificado por el Artículo 1 de la Ley N° 28878, publicada el 17 agosto 2006, cuyo texto es el siguiente:
Será reprimido con pena privativa de libertad no menor de quince años el que mate a otro concurriendo cualquiera de las circunstancias siguientes:
1. Por ferocidad, por lucro o por placer;
2. Para facilitar u ocultar otro delito;
3. Con gran crueldad o alevosía;
4. Por fuego, explosión, veneno o por cualquier otro medio capaz de poner en peligro la vida o salud de otras personas;
5. Si la víctima es miembro de la Policía Nacional del Perú o de las Fuerzas Armadas, Magistrado del Poder Judicial o del Ministerio Público, en el cumplimiento de sus funciones."
Undoubtedly, Joran would have preferred to be charged with either of the following alternatives:
Article 109 .- homicide violent emotion
He who kills another under the influence of violent emotion that circumstances make it excusable, shall be punished by imprisonment of not less than three nor more than five years.
Artículo 109.- Homicidio por emoción violenta
El que mata a otro bajo el imperio de una emoción violenta que las circunstancias hacen excusable, será reprimido con pena privativa de libertad, no menor de tres ni mayor de cinco años.
Or, Simple Murder under Article 106:
Article 106 .- Simple Murder
He who kills another shall be punished by imprisonment of not less than six nor more than twenty years.
Artículo 106.- Homicidio Simple
El que mata a otro será reprimido con pena privativa de libertad no menor de seis ni mayor de veinte años.
(Bolded emphasis by me.) My understanding is that the hearing the judge is conducting tomorrow is similar to our version of a preliminary hearing -- it's a hearing to determine whether there is probable cause to order the defendant to stand trial on the charges submitted. I assume(but do not know for sure) that the judge, after considering the charges as submitted, could determine that he should stand trial on lesser charges. And again, if he's ordered to stand trial, the trial is before a three judge panel, not a jury.
And contrary to what the "prison expert" who appeared on CBS predicting Joran would be killed in Castro Castro, said this weekend, Peru does indeed have the presumption of innocence. It's right in their Constitution.
Chapter I Fundamental Rights of the Individual
Article 2 Every individual has the right:
...24. to personal freedom and security.
Consequently:
...e) Every person is considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
In Spanish:
DERECHOS FUNDAMENTALES DE LA PERSONA
Artículo 2.- Derechos fundamentales de la persona
Toda persona tiene derecho:
24. A la libertad y a la seguridad personales. En consecuencia:
... e). Toda persona es considerada inocente mientras no se haya declarado judicialmente su responsabilidad.
Next expert, please.
Joran's court appearance is at 10:00 a.m. (The time in Peru is the same as CST.) According to Peru 21 (which contained the misinformation about Joe Tacopina), his current lawyer Maximo Altez Navarro, says Joran won't be making a statement because he wants a re-do of the first interrogation (in which he confessed) and the habeas action he filed last week challenging the confession hasn't been ruled upon yet.
And yes, Peru's Constitution provides for habeas corpus. It also, like Mexico and other Latin American countries, provides for Amparo (another form of constitutional relief, that's different than habeas.)
Offical news updates on the hearing will come from the Court's press office.
< Peru's Media Displays of Prisoners : This is How We Do It | Supreme Court Upholds Material Support of Terrorism Law >
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/6/21/04230/3367
Simple Theft (Hurto Simple):
Article 185 .- Simple Theft, Article amended by paragraph 1 of Article 29 of Legislative Decree No. 1084, issued on June 28, 2008, which reads as follows:
"Whoever, for profit, unlawfully seized movable property, in whole or in part outside, removing it from the place where found, shall be punished by imprisonment of not less than one nor more than three years. They are comparable to movable electric power, gas, water and energy or any other item that has economic value as well as the electromagnetic spectrum and to fishery resources allocation mechanism of maximum catch per boat. "
Artículo 185.- Hurto Simple (Artículo modificado por el numeral 1 del Artículo 29 del Decreto Legislativo Nº 1084, publicado el 28 junio 2008, cuyo texto es el siguiente
“El que, para obtener provecho, se apodera ilegítimamente de un bien mueble, total o parcialmente ajeno, sustrayéndolo del lugar donde se encuentra, será reprimido con pena privativa de libertad no menor de uno ni mayor de tres años. Se equiparan a bien mueble la energía eléctrica, el gas, el agua y cualquier otra energía o elemento que tenga valor económico, así como el espectro electromagnético y también los recursos pesqueros objeto de un mecanismo de asignación de Límites Máximos de Captura por Embarcación.”
The murder charge: From the court's press release:
According to the prosecutor's report, the same that was presented about 04:00 pm today, Van der Sloot would have killed Flores Ramirez with the aggravation of having acted with great ferocity and cruelty, as provided in Article 108 of the Penal Code Sections 1 and 3, which defines the crime of murder.
Here's Article 108, with sections 1 and 3:
Article 108 .- Murder- Murder - Article amended by Article 1 of Law No. 28,878, published on August 17, 2006, which reads as follows:
Shall be punished by imprisonment of not less than fifteen years to kill another meet any of the following circumstances:
1. For ferocity, for profit or pleasure;
2. To facilitate or conceal another crime;
3. With great cruelty or premeditation;
4. For fire, explosion, poison or any other medium capable of endangering the life or health of others;
5. If the victim is a member of the National Police of Peru or of the Armed Forces, Head of the Judiciary or the Public Ministry, in carrying out their duties. "
“Artículo 108.- Homicidio Calificado - Asesinato (*) Artículo modificado por el Artículo 1 de la Ley N° 28878, publicada el 17 agosto 2006, cuyo texto es el siguiente:
Será reprimido con pena privativa de libertad no menor de quince años el que mate a otro concurriendo cualquiera de las circunstancias siguientes:
1. Por ferocidad, por lucro o por placer;
2. Para facilitar u ocultar otro delito;
3. Con gran crueldad o alevosía;
4. Por fuego, explosión, veneno o por cualquier otro medio capaz de poner en peligro la vida o salud de otras personas;
5. Si la víctima es miembro de la Policía Nacional del Perú o de las Fuerzas Armadas, Magistrado del Poder Judicial o del Ministerio Público, en el cumplimiento de sus funciones."
Undoubtedly, Joran would have preferred to be charged with either of the following alternatives:
Article 109 .- homicide violent emotion
He who kills another under the influence of violent emotion that circumstances make it excusable, shall be punished by imprisonment of not less than three nor more than five years.
Artículo 109.- Homicidio por emoción violenta
El que mata a otro bajo el imperio de una emoción violenta que las circunstancias hacen excusable, será reprimido con pena privativa de libertad, no menor de tres ni mayor de cinco años.
Or, Simple Murder under Article 106:
Article 106 .- Simple Murder
He who kills another shall be punished by imprisonment of not less than six nor more than twenty years.
Artículo 106.- Homicidio Simple
El que mata a otro será reprimido con pena privativa de libertad no menor de seis ni mayor de veinte años.
(Bolded emphasis by me.) My understanding is that the hearing the judge is conducting tomorrow is similar to our version of a preliminary hearing -- it's a hearing to determine whether there is probable cause to order the defendant to stand trial on the charges submitted. I assume(but do not know for sure) that the judge, after considering the charges as submitted, could determine that he should stand trial on lesser charges. And again, if he's ordered to stand trial, the trial is before a three judge panel, not a jury.
And contrary to what the "prison expert" who appeared on CBS predicting Joran would be killed in Castro Castro, said this weekend, Peru does indeed have the presumption of innocence. It's right in their Constitution.
Chapter I Fundamental Rights of the Individual
Article 2 Every individual has the right:
...24. to personal freedom and security.
Consequently:
...e) Every person is considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
In Spanish:
DERECHOS FUNDAMENTALES DE LA PERSONA
Artículo 2.- Derechos fundamentales de la persona
Toda persona tiene derecho:
24. A la libertad y a la seguridad personales. En consecuencia:
... e). Toda persona es considerada inocente mientras no se haya declarado judicialmente su responsabilidad.
Next expert, please.
Joran's court appearance is at 10:00 a.m. (The time in Peru is the same as CST.) According to Peru 21 (which contained the misinformation about Joe Tacopina), his current lawyer Maximo Altez Navarro, says Joran won't be making a statement because he wants a re-do of the first interrogation (in which he confessed) and the habeas action he filed last week challenging the confession hasn't been ruled upon yet.
And yes, Peru's Constitution provides for habeas corpus. It also, like Mexico and other Latin American countries, provides for Amparo (another form of constitutional relief, that's different than habeas.)
Offical news updates on the hearing will come from the Court's press office.
< Peru's Media Displays of Prisoners : This is How We Do It | Supreme Court Upholds Material Support of Terrorism Law >
suzihawk
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Joran wants to await trial in freedom
crude translation here...
http://translate.google.com/transla...vrijheid_afwachten___.html?p=13,2&sl=nl&tl=en
People in hell want icewater, too. Heh...
crude translation here...
http://translate.google.com/transla...vrijheid_afwachten___.html?p=13,2&sl=nl&tl=en
People in hell want icewater, too. Heh...
And if I had wheels, I'd be a car.
Well that is what Joran wants, but he has shown history that isn't reliable, history of another girl disappearing who was last with him, and he is a known flight risk, plus he has enablers that work very hard for him (as long as they don't have daughters) to deflect his behaviour. His lawyer has the option of trying those routes to have him free until trial but I really doubt the Judges will fall for that. They know he would leave quickly and once out of Peru they wouldn't get him back. His mother would find another hiding spot for him to flee to. They have her 'number' to be sure.
If they now are talking about psyche reports of him from a childhood age, what in the heck have they hidden throughout the NH case? Why wasn't something done long ago, rather than sweep it all under the carpet? What his mom spoke of was 3 visits to a psychologists office and they were hoping for a final report.:waitasec: Something huge wrong with the picture.
suzihawk
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And another...
Joran van der Sloot (22) wants to wait for trial in freedom. He has filed a request with the court in Peru. Justice takes its request pending.
It is customary for lawyers in Peru clients trying to get out of jail pending the trial. This conditional release, the suspect in Lima remain and report weekly to the court. It is also possible to get house arrest. The request in the coming days by the court to be judged. Legal experts in Peru in the media indicated the possibility of release "minimal" to consider.
http://translate.google.com/transla...w.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_74977.php
Isn't this the same guy who was literally crying and begging to be kept in PC because he thought he was going to be killed? Ya know... maybe he really is crazier than Cooter Brown if he's now requesting to be put under house arrest and he can just stroll in to report once a week. Hey, I'm all for it! Let him go and live amongst the Peruvian citizens. Excellent idea!
Joran van der Sloot (22) wants to wait for trial in freedom. He has filed a request with the court in Peru. Justice takes its request pending.
It is customary for lawyers in Peru clients trying to get out of jail pending the trial. This conditional release, the suspect in Lima remain and report weekly to the court. It is also possible to get house arrest. The request in the coming days by the court to be judged. Legal experts in Peru in the media indicated the possibility of release "minimal" to consider.
http://translate.google.com/transla...w.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_74977.php
Isn't this the same guy who was literally crying and begging to be kept in PC because he thought he was going to be killed? Ya know... maybe he really is crazier than Cooter Brown if he's now requesting to be put under house arrest and he can just stroll in to report once a week. Hey, I'm all for it! Let him go and live amongst the Peruvian citizens. Excellent idea!
nervous_nellie
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i do hope you are right...i agree with all you have said here
i think he would try to get to the u.s. prison system(extortion case) - or i guess thats what i would be trying to do if i was in his predicament. but boo-hoo for him, he is where he belongs all because of his own decisions and actions and i refuse to feel guilty and bad because the conditions are harsh. i wish that they werent as barbaric as it sounds but the conditions are not my fault either...just sayin.... joran had plenty of sympathy on his first go 'round and it doesnt look like there was any benefit in it for him at all. so he needs to suck it up, there is a dead girl and her suffering family that this is about ... not what joran wants. joran getting what joran wants is how this whole mess is in existence to begin with. he has used his last coupon with me. im done. sorry for sounding all fire-N-brimstone lol, im tired...if i offended or was too rude please delete :blushing:Joren [sic] van der Sloot and the silly women who love him
http://www.examiner.com/x-31244-Lou...an-der-Sloot-and-the-silly-women-who-love-him
http://www.examiner.com/x-31244-Lou...an-der-Sloot-and-the-silly-women-who-love-him
nervous_nellie
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:biggrin: yeppers! i was too busy ranting to see your post - i needed the laugh, thanx....
nervous_nellie
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http://www.examiner.com/x-31244-Lou...an-der-Sloot-and-the-silly-women-who-love-him
oh brother... interesting. im divorced but i dont think i have a need to control a partner so badly that i would start considering death-row inmates....wow, i will have to ponder on that for awhile...NOT
oh brother... interesting. im divorced but i dont think i have a need to control a partner so badly that i would start considering death-row inmates....wow, i will have to ponder on that for awhile...NOT
suzihawk
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I have to agree with this statement, though:
We have always made media stars out of murderers,
:yuck:
uke:
Chiquita71
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Hello WS
Joran is no stranger to violence as we hear from his own accounts in an Aruban police interview when questioned about Natalie Holloway. In that interview, he stated that he was under the care of a psychiatrist. He stated that his parents sent him to a psychiatrist for stealing 50 eros from his father.
He also that he mentioned he had a history of violence in beating up his brother.
So obviously his mother Anita and father Paulus knew that Joran was full of problems or they would not have sent him to a psychiatrist when he was a teen.
(end snip)
http://drlillianglass.com/body-language-blog/category/criminal/
I know this information has been in question and I agree that if there is no media link or documentation then we may be getting into the realm of "rumor" and it is not my intention with this post to bring up what was asked to be left alone by the mods(TOS.)
I ran across this statement by Dr. Glass. There is no link to this interview(if there is such a interview) but it may be worth sleuthing if there were such a interview. If this post is inappropriate mods please delete. TIA.
(Typos from the blog are not mine) :angel:
...js...
Joran is no stranger to violence as we hear from his own accounts in an Aruban police interview when questioned about Natalie Holloway. In that interview, he stated that he was under the care of a psychiatrist. He stated that his parents sent him to a psychiatrist for stealing 50 eros from his father.
He also that he mentioned he had a history of violence in beating up his brother.
So obviously his mother Anita and father Paulus knew that Joran was full of problems or they would not have sent him to a psychiatrist when he was a teen.
(end snip)
http://drlillianglass.com/body-language-blog/category/criminal/
I know this information has been in question and I agree that if there is no media link or documentation then we may be getting into the realm of "rumor" and it is not my intention with this post to bring up what was asked to be left alone by the mods(TOS.)
I ran across this statement by Dr. Glass. There is no link to this interview(if there is such a interview) but it may be worth sleuthing if there were such a interview. If this post is inappropriate mods please delete. TIA.
(Typos from the blog are not mine) :angel:
...js...
panthera
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LOL, suzihawk, that was my reaction also. Let him out and see how long he lasts!!! This is almost laughable. Does he seriously believe he'll get out?? He is not a Peruvian citizen, has no place for "house arrest" and is also a proven flight risk having been brought back to Peru from Chile. :banghead: MOO
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