Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #5

[CharlestonGal]

I want to believe that Joran will never know comfort again and that justice will be served.

But as you said, something might flip this whole thing around and his smug face will once again make out into the world. I believe that the extortion charges brought against by America are going to be some kind of match point and his fate will go either way.

I hope that he mans up and confesses, especially if he's killed more women on a global basis. I don't believe Natalee & Stephany are the only two, it doesn't seem possible. I also think that the timing is completely coincidental and that he kills who he wants when he wants without a second thought.

I don't see him confessing to anything unless it benefits him in some major way. He's not suddenly going to have some attack of conscience and "do the right thing." He'll only do it if there is something in it for him. And even then, I'd have trouble believing anything that comes out of his mouth.

I think we can write him off as any kind of source of authentic information.

 

[Boytwnmom]

case standard, "preponderance of the evidence" which means finding it is more likely than not that he committed the crime. This is obviously a much lower and easier standard to meet than "beyond a reasonable doubt". I see Karma all over this "opposite of Aruba" situation; the lesser standard, connected victim's family, prominence of victim & family, outsider status of VDS etc. feels like the cocky little fella picked the wrong place and the wrong victim this time.

Isn't their "burden of proof" alot more lienent though? Like - they have both of them going into the room together; and only he ever comes back out and no one else ever goes in. At that point the "burden of proof" shifts to Joran's defense to "prove" or show that someone else did go in there and kill her (while he was getting coffee).

Plus we just don't know all they have. If they have HIS clothes with HER blood on them - its over. The end.

 

[Solomisskitty]

I'm going to respond to your post by simply saying that what you have written about Anita Van der Sloot is far from the truth. I know Anita and have corresponded with her many times throughout the Holloway case and I can assure you that you will not find a kinder person anywhere. I'm really offended that people here are blaming her for what Joran has done. I've hesitated to post in this forum because my opinion differs greatly than the majority of this board and also because of the respect that I do have for Anita but to set the record straight, I can assure all of you that Anita is not a person that insists that Joran lie, cheat, steal, or whatever the case may be.

Adrienne37, thank you much for your post. I believe the Websleuth community is mostly an open-minded group and willing to consider everyone's point of view with respect. Please feel free to post as your comfort level will allow.

 

[Carrington]

I wonder just how much she could communicate with Joran?
It has been reported his Spanish sucks, wonder how her Dutch/ English was?
IMO

 

[panthera]

Isn't their "burden of proof" alot more lienent though? Like - they have both of them going into the room together; and only he ever comes back out and no one else ever goes in. At that point the "burden of proof" shifts to Joran's defense to "prove" or show that someone else did go in there and kill her (while he was getting coffee).

Plus we just don't know all they have. If they have HIS clothes with HER blood on them - its over. The end.

Good afternoon! From what I've read, the burden of proof is a preponderance of evidence, and basically guilty until proven innocent. I agree it won't matter one bit if LE had gloves on or not while going through is possessions if they have her blood on his clothes, or other forensic evidence in addition to the video surveillance that doesn't show anyone else entering/exiting the hotel room where her body was found. MOO

 

[CharlestonGal]

I wonder just how much she could communicate with Joran?
It has been reported his Spanish sucks, wonder how her Dutch/ English was?
IMO

I remember reading a quote from her father that the two were enjoying each others' company and speaking English together, so she must have known English. Her father and brother seem to speak it fairly well, too.

 

[LetJusticePrevail]

I would say that it's at least possible J's mother is not enabling him as she has had no contact with him since his father's death, per reports. We don't know J's mother and have no idea how she's reacted to his actions in the past behind closed doors. Maybe they've sought help for him. Just maybe or maybe not. But really, we have no idea and I think the blame should lay squarely in J's lap.

Suzet, I'm not singling you out at all. I realize with monsters like J, it's human nature to ask ourselves..."where were the parents in all of this". Just figured including my thoughts here are the most appropriate place for context of where they originated.

Thank you for posting, but actions speak louder than words and based on footage I have seen of Anita, I stand behind my own opinions. Since you have singled me out I will say that I have never blamed Anita for what Joran has done. I blame her for enabling him after the fact. She doesn't seem to be a person that insists Joran tell the truth, play fair, not take things that do not belong to him, or whatever the case may be. She has no control over what he does, but she does not have to enable him either.

 

[suzihawk]

Helmond Lawyer: Joran confesses not

The counsel has an e-mail a few times had contact with Van der Sloot. "Once when he was at liberty to my surprise and later from the police in Chile where he was stuck."

Helmondse lawyer is busy searching for lawyers in Chile and Peru that Van der Sloot can assist.

http://translate.google.com/transla...&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&rlz=1I7ADFA_en

Interesting that he contacted his lawyer before he was even captured. Surely it speaks to his consciousness of guilt.

 

[Solomisskitty]

I have 2 unrelated questions:
1. Does anyone know how far it is between the casino and hostel?
2. Knowing that Peru's courts are much different than in the U.S. (Peru's consisting of 3 judges), is media allowed in their courtrooms as they are here?

 

[suzihawk]

I have 2 unrelated questions:
1. Does anyone know how far it is between the casino and hostel?
2. Knowing that Peru's courts are much different than in the U.S. (Peru's consisting of 3 judges), is media allowed in their courtrooms as they are here?

I read somewhere that it's about a 15 minute walk and that there's video tape of them walking together toward the hotel, although I haven't seen it.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I'm going to respond to your post by simply saying that what you have written about Anita Van der Sloot is far from the truth. I know Anita and have corresponded with her many times throughout the Holloway case and I can assure you that you will not find a kinder person anywhere. I'm really offended that people here are blaming her for what Joran has done. I've hesitated to post in this forum because my opinion differs greatly than the majority of this board and also because of the respect that I do have for Anita but to set the record straight, I can assure all of you that Anita is not a person that insists that Joran lie, cheat, steal, or whatever the case may be.

Thank you for posting. And of course you have your own view of someone you know and care about. Speaking for myself only, I don't "blame" the mother for what the grown son has done. But all parents have a choice when a child is arrested for a serious crime that he has committed: believe the child's denials and protestations, get the best attorney, and fight to keep the child out of prison; or recognize that terrible acts have consequences and encourage the child to confess and make the best deal possible. Joran's mother choose the former. She and her husband also stood by while Arubans and their supporters in the media and on the internet trashed the victim's family, particularly Beth Holloway Twitty. Joran's mother has paid a terrible price for raising a psychopath. But her first reaction is to be shocked that he killed again? Most of us are only shocked that he was so brazen and so easily caught. Her reaction suggests that she still doesn't see her boy very clearly. It's sad, but not nearly as sad as what Natalee's family and friends have endured, or what Stephany's family is enduring, or what these two lovely girls endured at Joran's hands.

 

[Solomisskitty]

I read somewhere that it's about a 15 minute walk and that there's video tape of them walking together toward the hotel, although I haven't seen it.

So Stephany's car was parked at the casino and they did not drive to the hostel? The reports are confusing me.

 

[panthera]

Van der Sloot remains jailed as murder investigation continues

June 6, 2010 2:11 p.m. EDT

Lima, Peru (CNN) -- A judge has extended the investigation into murder suspect Joran van der Sloot, accused of killing a Peruvian woman, for another week, a spokeswoman for Peru's Interior Ministry said Sunday.
Van der Sloot, a Dutch citizen, will remain jailed in Lima, Peru, during that time, spokeswoman Rut Cardenas told CNN.
Cardenas said a judge has given investigators another week to gather information about van der Sloot's alleged involvement in the death of a young Peruvian woman last week.
Carlos Neyra, an official with the Peruvian National Police criminal investigation division, said van der Sloot, the sole suspect named in the case, has not been formally charged. Neyra added that van der Sloot now has a lawyer, assigned by the Dutch Embassy.

more at http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/06/peru.murder.case/

 

[Nancy2441]

On Geraldo Rivera's show last night I liked when GR said that Aruba had continuously kissed Joran's Bu** and that the way he was treated now by LE in Peru was how he should have been treated in Aruba. It makes me sick how his case was handled there and how the Holloway family was treated.

As far as Stephany Flores demeanor in the video. I don't see it as her being drugged. Not at this point, anyway. I see her being ashamed to be with Joran, and to be in this place, it seems she was very aware of the cameras, and clearly didn't want to be recognized. Which makes sense since she came from a very prominent family.

 

[suzet]

Perhaps someone already brought this up, but it was stated in an unconfirmed report, that Stephany texted one of her friends.

"~ She had dropped two girlfriends off at their homes several hours earlier. El Comercio, citing a police report, said she sent a text message to one to tell her she was "walking up the stairs to my bedroom." ~"

http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Moist-eyed-Dutch-murder-suspect-interrogated-512641.php

Isn't it possible, if this were true, that it was actually Joran doing the texting? Of course the time stamp on this alleged message would make all the difference in the world and perhaps Stephany did send this message, but just putting this out there for what it's worth.

 

[panthera]

Perhaps someone already brought this up, but it was stated in an unconfirmed report, that Stephany texted one of her friends.

"~ She had dropped two girlfriends off at their homes several hours earlier. El Comercio, citing a police report, said she sent a text message to one to tell her she was "walking up the stairs to my bedroom." ~"

http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Moist-eyed-Dutch-murder-suspect-interrogated-512641.php

Isn't it possible, if this were true, that it was actually Joran doing the texting? Of course the time stamp on this alleged message would make all the difference in the world and perhaps Stephany did send this message, but just putting this out there for what it's worth.

From what I understood, this was much earlier and not when she was going to his hotel room. MOO

 

[Melanie]

Very strange videos. Also, there is no conversation between them. You would expect some type of interaction, especially if they just met. You would think that when they arrived at the room, he would have made some indication that this is it, or open the door and let her pass in first. Nothing. I wonder what motivated her to go back to his room.

I agree - if you're wooing someone back to your hotel room, and you don't have just enough class to allow her to enter first? Personally, and IMOO, I believe he thought women were "things". Things to be used, abused, sexually, mentally, and eventually killed.

MOO

Mel

 

[Boytwnmom]

"presumed guilty" idea. The State Department website has a March 2010 report http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2009/wha/136123.htm that addresses a number of human rights related issues including trial procedures that indicates a defendant is presumed innocent. It is very hard to get actual English language translations of Peruvian laws and procedures though!

Trial Procedures
The justice system is based on the Napoleonic Code. The prosecutor investigates cases and submits an opinion to a first instance judge, who determines if sufficient evidence exists to open legal proceedings. The judge conducts an investigation, evaluates facts, determines guilt or innocence, and issues a sentence. All defendants are presumed innocent; they have the right to be present at trial, to call witnesses, and to be represented by counsel, although in practice the public defender system often failed to provide indigent defendants with qualified attorneys. The Ministry of Justice provided indigent persons with access to an attorney at no cost, although these attorneys were often poorly trained. Defendants and their attorneys generally have access to government-held evidence related to their cases for recent crimes, except in cases related to the human rights abuses of the period 1980-2000 and particularly with respect to those involving the Ministry of Defense. Although citizens have the right to be tried in their own language, language services for non-Spanish speakers, who comprise a substantial number of persons in the highlands and Amazon regions, were sometimes unavailable. Defendants may appeal verdicts to the superior court and then to the Supreme Court of Justice. The Constitutional Court decides cases involving such issues as habeas corpus.

Good afternoon! From what I've read, the burden of proof is a preponderance of evidence, and basically guilty until proven innocent. I agree it won't matter one bit if LE had gloves on or not while going through is possessions if they have her blood on his clothes, or other forensic evidence in addition to the video surveillance that doesn't show anyone else entering/exiting the hotel room where her body was found. MOO

 

[faw720]

I don't feel sorry for this guy at all. IMO he is a serial killer. His age has nothing to do with it; JVDS is a psychopath and has exhibited increasingly heinous behaviors. Crazy means someone doesn't know right from wrong...this guy knew the difference, absolutely. He's not crazy; he's evil.

His parents coddled him and protected him and he has caused immeasurable pain and suffering to multiple families.

The fact that he chose to commit this murder in a country that has one of the toughest jail systems is too bad; it was his choice. This guy is an example of the worst of the worst: a stalker, a pimp, a rapist, an extortionist, and a sociopath with no remorse. He said (on tape with Peter Devries) he doesn't lose one night of sleep over Natalee Holloway's death. Think about that the next time you (any of you) start to feel sorry for this

He's a grown man, a 6' 5" bully, and at least a double-murderer.

Beautifully said!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't agree more!!

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Maybe he told her he needed to go back to his room to get more money and would she go with him? Once there - he wouldn't want her to wait somewhere (of course, its not safe) and to just "run up to the room" with him and get the money.

I am still very insterested in how he got her to go to his room. Her family and friends have also said that she would have never gone with any man to his hotel room.