Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #9

[suzihawk]

Jean C/ on In-Session: have just been informed that JVDS has a private attorney. Not revealed who at this point. That may be why everything has slowed down (the re-enactment).

 

[Patty G]

Just posted on my Comcast homepage:

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-politics/20100609/Van.der.Sloot/?cid=hero_mainlink

The article (link in quote) is quoting Bo Dietl and he stated in the article exactly what he stated on Geraldo's Show Saturday evening. It totally boggels my mind that now they are jumping on this story.

 

[Chanler]

Well, the way she was dressed makes me think she might have taken off her jeans to lie down. She was having her menstrual cycle, so sex may not have even come into play. He could have killed her on the bed and then pulled the body and sheet off of the bed at the same time to get her on the floor. He probably thought he could get her out of there in that sheet and then realized what an impossibility that was going to be. He knew he needed to do something fast before her family started searching for her. If he could just make it into another country, maybe he could disappear into the crowd.
I think he was desparate for funds. He couldn't gamble, couldn't travel, couldn't eat or do much of anything without money.

Hi, YellowDog, this alternate scenario seems possible. One question: How do we know that she was having her menstrual cycle? I've heard that stated before, but never seen any media source.

Thanks in advance, any one.

 

[Patty G]

Hi, YellowDog, this alternate scenario seems possible. One question: How do we know that she was having her menstrual cycle? I've heard that stated before, but never seen any media source.

Thanks in advance, any one.

From the police report; see image below.

 

[LilJoePinto]

I agree! I had a thought... Wouldn't it be wild if SF did not mention much about herself to him and he searched tides with plans of disposing of her body and then thought to do a google search of her name just to see what popped up... what exactly he could expect in the aftermath and suddenly he found that her father was famous and highly respected there. That could explain him abandoning any attempt of a disposal of the body, him leaving suddenly and his fear of taking with him across borders a bloody shirt.

Also, why do you all think he went south to Chile rather than north to the safe confines of Aruba? (Because to Aruba was "to be expected" so he was trying to throw them off???)

He had no idea when her body would be found and it would be far to great a risk to attempt to board a plane out the country only to find them waiting to arrest him at the airport, and he has no idea how long he'd have to wait to board a plane where a seat was available. As soon as the body was found, all the airlines would have been notified, and the moment he showed his passport to try to get on a flight he would have been detained by airport security for the police to deal with him.

The best way to run from the police is to go the longer over-land route where you can be anonymous and cross a border into another country before the police have any opportunity or even the means to man all the checkpoints, and where there is an opportunity to be smuggled over the boarder for the right price which can't be done in boarding a plane at an airport. Once across the border into Chile it's the same thing again... travel over-land anonymously and let the police try to figure out where you're going and how to stop you.

If it's true that he was checking sea tides, etc. he was more than likely planning on making his way to either Aruba, the Netherlands or any country he could get into that doesn't have an extradition treaty with Peru rather than making plans to dump a body he left in his room 2000 miles away.

Really, running to the airport when trying to escape the police coming after you is like running straight into their arms.

 

[Chanler]

It's anyone's guess whether Joran's confession is true or not. IMO, not true.

Hi, Patty G. Joran's multiple confessions have evolved into legal and financial strategies. To me, laying such misleading signs seem like an adept poker player's device.

 

[Chanler]

He had no idea when her body would be found and it would be far to great a risk to attempt to board a plane out the country only to find them waiting to arrest him at the airport, and he has no idea how long he'd have to wait to board a plane where a seat was available. As soon as the body was found, all the airlines would have been notified, and the moment he showed his passport to try to get on a flight he would have been detained by airport security for the police to deal with him.

The best way to run from the police is to go the longer over-land route where you can be anonymous and cross a border into another country before the police have any opportunity or even the means to man all the checkpoints, and where there is an opportunity to be smuggled over the boarder for the right price which can't be done in boarding a plane at an airport. Once across the border into Chile it's the same thing again... travel over-land anonymously and let the police try to figure out where you're going and how to stop you.

If it's true that he was checking sea tides, etc. he was more than likely planning on making his way to either Aruba, the Netherlands or any country he could get into that doesn't have an extradition treaty with Peru rather than making plans to dump a body he left in his room 2000 miles away.

Really, running to the airport when trying to escape the police coming after you is like running straight into their arms.

Even without the police, a plane ride would make him visible to perhaps a hundred other passengers and crew. Being driven by a private car or SUV would be much less risky.

 

[salvarenga]

Here is the 8 page criminal complaint for the FBI:

http://www.radaronline.com/sites/default/files/Joran%20Van%20Der%20Sloot%20Federal%20Case.pdf

 

[elainebenice]

I really think there's a great possibility here that we are ALL "over-thinking" what went on here. It's a normal reaction for (normal) people to try and understand why crimes like this occur and find some sort of rational explanation (even if its only rational in the perp's head), but the problem with this is the fact that people who commit crimes such as the ones we are discussing are not "normal" and don't think/react like we think they would or should in certain situations. On the flip side, I may be "under-thinking" it, but my money right now is on him killing her in cold blood so he could rob her. The fact that he got to also beat & kill a woman was just a sick "bonus" for him. Bottom line - he needed money and she had money, but wasn't going to give this random dude a christmas present just b/c he's JVS, so he just killed her instead. I know that sounds oversimplistic, but people like this don't have a conscience at all or if they have a small one its certainly not similar to the conscience we all have. She was just some stupid b*** (thinking like him now) who had something he wanted and he took it from her by whatever means necessary. Even though she may have given him money w/o him having to kill her, but like I said before, that was just a sick "bonus" for him.

The new info about cocaine/amphetamines being in his system only bolsters my theory that he may or may not have taken out his anger/rage on her b/c of something she "did" (in his mind of course). I know a lot of people consider an illegal drug is a drug is a drug, but its not that simple when you are discussing the effects these drugs have on an individual. I was the 1st person to say that pot didn't cause him to kill her and pot doesn't cause people to commit violent murders. I'm sure there are a handful of cases where an argument can be made that pot alone led to some sort of mental "snap" in someone with a pre-existing mental condition, but that's NOT what we are talking about here. Pot obviously has effects, but these are typically nothing even close to anything that would cause someone to become angry enough to violently beat someone else to death. It may increase anxiety, but the "downer" effects of the pot will pretty much offset this effect, at least for the purposes we are talking about here. Cocaine on the other hand is a horse of a different color entirely in numerous respects, especially in respect to the immediate effects it has on a user. In all users, not just chronic users or those w/pre-existing mental conditions, cocaine can/will cause extreme agitation, irritability, impatience, anxiety and anger. Unlike pot, these effects of cocaine are accompanied by increased energy, which can become an obvious recipie for disaster when you are talking about someone like JVS. As far as the amphetamines go, they would have caused very similar effects to those of cocaine, so that's sort of 6 of 1, half dozen of the other to me.

Even though I truly believe he killed Natalee, I'm not ready to jump on board with the idea that just b/c he had info on his laptop about her then "case solved." We are dealing with someone who is so narcissistic and accustomed to getting attention for whatever reason, that I don't think its a stretch to believe he used whatever he had on his computer or in his head to brag to various people around the world who he encountered on his many "travels," especially guys who he felt "understood" why someone would kill a girl or would possibly be impressed by the fact he was a murderer. As everyone has pointed out, JVS is a liar, is a liar, is a liar and that personality trait most likely permeated his life in all aspects. Bottom line - JVS is the type of person who would/will do whatever is necessary to accomplish whatever it is that he WANTS to accomplish, no matter the toll that action takes on others, even as extreme as causing the death of another.

 

[Wings Of Light]

He had no idea when her body would be found and it would be far to great a risk to attempt to board a plane out the country only to find them waiting to arrest him at the airport, and he has no idea how long he'd have to wait to board a plane where a seat was available.

The hotel had his passport and he would only get it back when he checked out. This is why he was not able to get on a plane.

He was probably thinking that instead of checking out and getting his passport, which would probably mean the hotel staff would enter the room shortly after and discover the body, he would instead just leave and go into Chile with the head start.

 

[Nancy2441]

The article (link in quote) is quoting Bo Dietl and he stated in the article exactly what he stated on Geraldo's Show Saturday evening. It totally boggels my mind that now they are jumping on this story.

That's true, Patty. But let's face it, there has been a lot of misinformation in this case. In the past certain things that have been stated as "fact" on Geraldo, JVM, GVS, and NG turn out not to be true. I personally put much more faith in a story coming from CNN or MSNBC. At the very least it is legitimate confirmation of what we've already heard.

 

[Patty G]

The hotel had his passport and he would only get it back when he checked out. This is why he was not able to get on a plane.

He was probably thinking that instead of checking out and getting his passport, which would probably mean the hotel staff would enter the room shortly after and discover the body, he would instead just leave and go into Chile with the head start.

When Joran was arrested, there was video of the police and people in white coats looking at his passport.

 

[i.b.nora]

Steph Watts makes an interesting comment in a post he made earlier today.

JORAN: “I’m being interrogated in a very rude way”

Basically, he is addressing recent talking point regarding the FBI sting.

He questions the source of the money that Beth Holloway paid. He says, and I quote: "People are speculating as to where it came from. And I think it’s important for people who are commenting on this case in the media to fully disclose their involvement, financial or otherwise."

My interpretation of that comment, and my opinion only is that the so-called blood money came from FoxNews. Hence, the reason Greta is so upset that the FBI didn't arrest Joran in Aruba (which they couldn't have done anyhow). She wanted Fox's money back!!! Just my opinion, folks. It also explains why she has been able to 'report' on the details for the last few days, beating everyone else to the story, to the details. Well, most of the details.

 

[Wings Of Light]

When Joran was arrested, there was video of the police and people in white coats looking at his passport.

Do you know where that video is located?

 

[suzihawk]

Here is the 8 page criminal complaint for the FBI:

http://www.radaronline.com/sites/default/files/Joran Van Der Sloot Federal Case.pdf

Thank you.

..."that the supporting affidavit remain under seal at this time due, in part, to the sensitive nature of certain information contained in that document."

Hmmm...

I've also been curious from the beginning about this being an amended complaint. I sure would like to see the original to see what was amended.

 

[Patty G]

That's true, Patty. But let's face it, there has been a lot of misinformation in this case. In the past certain things that have been stated as "fact" on Geraldo, JVM, GVS, and NG turn out not to be true. I personally put much more faith in a story coming from CNN or MSNBC. At the very least it is legitimate confirmation of what we've already heard.

Yup, all of the national cable news shows do have a tendency to mis-report the news. I would love to give examples but it would throw this thread way off topic.

However, CNN and HLN took "place and show". :biggrin:

I have no favorite national cable news stations. Just being a little silly today.

 

[Patty G]

Thank you.

..."that the supporting affidavit remain under seal at this time due, in part, to the sensitive nature of certain information contained in that document."

Hmmm...

I've also been curious from the beginning about this being an amended complaint. I sure would like to see the original to see what was amended.

Perhaps the original document will be posted since the "Interpol Document is filtering out to the media. Could the "Interpol Document" be a supporting document to the complaint?

 

[suzihawk]

Steph Watts makes an interesting comment in a post he made earlier today.

JORAN: “I’m being interrogated in a very rude way”

Basically, he is addressing recent talking point regarding the FBI sting.

He questions the source of the money that Beth Holloway paid. He says, and I quote: "People are speculating as to where it came from. And I think it’s important for people who are commenting on this case in the media to fully disclose their involvement, financial or otherwise."

My interpretation of that comment, and my opinion only is that the so-called blood money came from FoxNews. Hence, the reason Greta is so upset that the FBI didn't arrest Joran in Aruba (which they couldn't have done anyhow). She wanted Fox's money back!!! Just my opinion, folks. It also explains why she has been able to 'report' on the details for the last few days, beating everyone else to the story, to the details. Well, most of the details.

Well, that's certainly an interesting twist, theory-wise. Not sure I believe it, but I surely wouldn't discount it.

 

[Patty G]

Do you know where that video is located?

I have to look as I recall I commented that the woman in the white coat was looking at the passport.

 

[angelwngs]

He had no idea when her body would be found and it would be far to great a risk to attempt to board a plane out the country only to find them waiting to arrest him at the airport, and he has no idea how long he'd have to wait to board a plane where a seat was available. As soon as the body was found, all the airlines would have been notified, and the moment he showed his passport to try to get on a flight he would have been detained by airport security for the police to deal with him.

The best way to run from the police is to go the longer over-land route where you can be anonymous and cross a border into another country before the police have any opportunity or even the means to man all the checkpoints, and where there is an opportunity to be smuggled over the boarder for the right price which can't be done in boarding a plane at an airport. Once across the border into Chile it's the same thing again... travel over-land anonymously and let the police try to figure out where you're going and how to stop you.

If it's true that he was checking sea tides, etc. he was more than likely planning on making his way to either Aruba, the Netherlands or any country he could get into that doesn't have an extradition treaty with Peru rather than making plans to dump a body he left in his room 2000 miles away.

Really, running to the airport when trying to escape the police coming after you is like running straight into their arms.

He said his credit cards were in Santiago, Chile hotel room. Correct? If you google map it, Aruba is located at the far Northern point of the map South America. Santiago, Chile is way below Lima, Peru and terribly far south from Aruba. It just didn't appear to me as if he was planning on going back to Aruba at all. Rather it seemed quite the opposite, that he was RUNNING SOUTH which speaks strongly to his guilt, IMHO. He knew that they would be looking for him for the murder and that they would expect him to go toward Aruba. So he went the opposite direction... For what reason would he have gone the opposite direction other than to escape law enforcement looking for him and why would LE be looking for him if he had no connections with and knew nothing of the murder????

Reminds me an awful lot of Scott Peterson and his red haired trip to Mexico that was really just a trip in the same 'direction' to play golf!