GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #111

[Cedars]

The Judge, according to the agreement signed by Kohberger and prepared jointly by Defense and Prosecution says that it will be four consecutive life sentences without parole, but that if the Judge so chooses, the Judge may reduce any or all of those sentences to years of time certain. IOW, no longer "life without parole" but some lesser sentence. It does not recommend that the Judge make the sentences concurrent, but I assume he could - because unless he signs the agreement, it's null.

I seriously doubt Judge H will reduce the sentence. But he could. The plea agreement says that Judge H may not choose a higher sentence (death) but could make LWP into a fixed term for each crime. Silent on whether he can change it to concurrent, but if he decided to, it is possible that the Prosecution could protest.

What is clear though, is that without an actual judge-approved plea deal, Kohberger has (without qualification and agreeing not to appeal) admitted guilty. He'll get a formal sentence (likely what is in the agreement, otherwise it's legally awkward) on July 23.

IMO

Yes, because an absolutely fundamental aspect of the common law legal system is that a judge, and only a judge, has the final power to impose sentences.

Normally, the prosecution and defense each recommend a sentence after a guilty verdict. In this case, they've come to a joint agreement to recommend a sentence

But they cannot impose it on the judge, the judge has that power to decide.

Of course, there are legal options to appeal, and so judges do not make such decisions on a whim. They take into account other sentences in similar cases, and other legal precendents. But they look to the law, not people's feelings

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I could be wrong, but BK was accused of murdering four people, I very much doubt he was moving entirely freely. Guessing he was wearing a rack belt. A shock collar for the torso.

If not, I can't believe anyone would think it a good idea for him to be wholly unshackled in the courtroom. Maybe that's why AT had him in the sinking chair to hide such a thing. At the time, she was actively rebranding him as meek, feeble, harmless. See how safe I feel right next to him? As she slides farther away...

I guess all those other things that aren't the one thing but could be important weren't.

Know what matters?

GUILTY
GUILTY
GUILTY
GUILTY
GUILTY

JMO

I heard he was wearing some form of restraint under his shirt but I listened to so much yesterday I can't remember where I heard that.

 

[Ghostwheel]

The phone calls were not completely harmless.

There's a word for that kind of behavior: Harassment.
SG has expressed his (misdirected) hostility toward the prosecution and LE repeatedly.

Judge Hippler was entirely correct to draw a line and say he would allow no such behavior.
The calls were an attempt to influence the justice system through mob-like intimidation.
We've seen that type of behavior being displayed in other cases recently as well.

SG is the one feeding the animals in the media zoo, who are feasting on his rage with carnivorous glee. And the $uper Chat$, like$ and view$ keep pouring into their gaping mouths.

I admire Judge Hippler so much for keeping Lady Justice safe from the mob.
Thank you, Judge Hippler!

JMO.

Jumping off this post. Where is the line between Opinion and Harassment?

Are people not allowed to call and voice an opinion on something regarding the court? If the answer is no, then calling would not be a viable option. If the answer was yes, then when did it become harassment? Were the callers rude, or threatening? If not, this should not be an issue at all. If they were, then that is on each individual. So then how does one let the courts know that there are people (and maybe a lot of them) who are not happy with the way they are being run?

The government, and that include the judges and prosecutors work for the people, not the other way around. There needs to be some way to tell them if what they are doing needs to be improved upon. If calling wasn't it, then what was/is? This country didn't start out with courts that worked this way. (not saying an old way was better, but maybe a new way would be better, too)

There is little worse that feeling like you have no control over your own life, or the justice for your loved ones. Like what is actually written down as a punishment never comes to pass (Cough*California*cough). At least if one felt like they had some kind of recourse to complain/try to change the system instead of being swept up in it, one might feel like there was something they can do. But instead people get told "You aren't allowed to question Authority!" with no "Here's what you can do instead." JMO

I don't know that SG's hostility is "misdirected". Maybe over the top at the moment. JMO.

 

[fcavanaugh]

With recent discussion regarding Mr. G, thought I’d share an article about the stages of grief as I think it might be playing a role in how Steve G expresses himself sometimes and imo wears his emotions/heart on his sleeve which not a bad thing at all but imo opens him up to more scrutiny as he’s been a publically vocal presence advocating for justice for his viciously murdered beloved Daughter and her three viciously murdered friends. Of course the other families have been advocating for justice for their children/all the parents’ children as well just imo not as publicly/vocally as SG.

I think it’s important to remember that everyone is different and processes grief differently and that one of the hardest things in life for any parent to endure is the loss of their child, and I’d imagine especially so when it’s sudden/unexpected, due to being violently attacked and murdered. As a parent who fortunately hasn’t lost a child, I cannot fathom what all of these parents’ are going through and even though I don’t agree with asking people to call the court/Judge to try and influence/sway his decision (think there are more constructive ways to let the court know you’re not happy with their decisions, maybe write an email or letter etc.) but understand his anger and frustration in his not feeling the plea deal is in the best interests of justice for his Daughter. Some or none of us may agree with his sentiment.
I personally don’t agree with his sentiment regarding the plea agreement but realize my feelings are irrelevant to his, the Father of a brutally murdered full of life promising young woman, my God, unimaginable! SG is entitled to his feelings as are all the other parents’ involved. I don’t have to agree with some of the things he says and/or does and feel immense compassion and sympathy for him at the same time.

Back to grief, my bet is they aren’t all experiencing the same stages of grief at the same time and it sometimes takes longer for some people to move between the different stages. I have so much sympathy for all of the parents’ and stepparents’ involved, my heart breaks for their loss of their precious beautiful children.

Having said all of that, I’m hoping that as Mr. G moves further through the stages of grief, he can come to some sense of peace as I believe his beloved Daughter Kaylee would want that for him. Because SG’s imo been the most vocal grieving parent, gauging from his interviews I’ve seen and his expression of his thoughts and comments, my personal unprofessional opinion is that he may be experiencing/still in the anger stage of his grief and/or somewhere between or transitioning from anger to bargaining based on the NN video clip I watched of him last night where in part, apologized to Kaylee for not doing enough for her (broke my heart) which would fall under bargaining going by the descriptions under each stage of grief.
Also he mentioned not making a victim impact statement and I truly hope he rethinks that as imo he needs to speak directly to the monster which imo could be very cathartic in his journey toward moving through his grief and healing the pain of some of his internal wounds so to speak.

I snipped the two stages of grief Anger and Bargaining and how people going through the Anger stage can sometimes misdirect their anger and perhaps that is what SG is doing misdirecting his anger by lashing out at Prosecutors, Judge etc. as an outlet for what I imagine could go towards overwhelming anger. I thought it might be helpful understanding how a person who has lost a child and grieving can feel for them, and how it can look to/come across to others.

Snipped and BBM:

You may have heard people talk about the stages of grief. The truth is, while these stages are common grief reactions, everyone grieves differently, especially when grieving for a child.

The five stages of grief typically include denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.

Anger. Anger can be directed toward many people or things: yourself, God, doctors, or whoever else may be responsible (from your perspective) for the death of your child. In some cases, this anger may truly be justified, but outbursts will still only serve to push away your support system.

Anger in grief may feel like:

• Rage
• Resentment
• Frustration
• Impatience
• Embarrassment
• A lack of control

To others, your anger may be seen as:

• Sarcasm
• Cynicism
• Pessimism
• Irritability
• Passive-aggression
• Aggression
• Eagerness to fight
• Increased drug or alcohol use

Bargaining. Bargaining isn’t always about making a deal with a deity. Instead, bargaining often strives to get to the root cause of the tragedy you are experiencing. It may involve asking, “What did we do to deserve this?” It may also involve intense feelings of guilt as you search for a cause.
Internally, bargaining may feel like:

• Guilt
• Blame
• Shame
• Insecurity
• Anxiety/fear

To others, bargaining may be seen as:

• Judgment toward yourself and others
• Thinking or saying “I should have…” or “If only I had…”
• Assuming the worst about the future
• Ruminating on the past or what the future may bring
• Perfectionism
• Overthinking and anxiety

What to Know About Grieving the Death of a Child

Losing a child is never easy. Learn more about the stages of grief and how to cope with your loss.

www.webmd.com

IMHOO

Kaylee,Maddie,Xana,Ethan, you’ll never be forgotten. xx

 

[AngTxGal]

The Door Dash delivery has always perplexed me. I remember a picture on the counter with Xana's name on it, so it would seem she got it before the attacks. Was BK in the house already and ending with Maddie and Kaylie, and heading down the stairs when the DD delivery occurred and the driver saw him then? He was wearing black so black wouldn't be too obvious. This part has always been hard to understand. Just a tight timeline.

These as the facts as I understand them- which do imply an order of events and very tight timeline.

- Door Dash arrives to Xana- likely to the front door and not the rear sliding door.
- Door Dash driver sees BK. (I don’t know if they saw BK in the car, or outside the car, or just his car, and if the car where it was seen.)
- Order is eaten in kitchen or removed from bag and walked to bedroom leaving bag in kitchen. Yes, crime scene photos show Xana’s Jack in the Box bag near a sink- looks like the kitchen.
New York Post article Jan 2023 showing Jack in the Box bag near kitchen sink.
- BK through sliding glass door, had to walk through the kitchen to enter and exit.

Did BK sit in car or near sliding door and watch for a several minutes before entering the house?
Did BK see Xana leave the bag in the kitchen and go back to her bedroom?
Why was the bag left on the kitchen counter and not in the trashcan?
If BK went upstairs first- it seems unlikely he could have done so without first noting Xana was there and where she was located.

I suppose the order of events would be cleared up if Xana’s or Ethan’s blood was found upstairs. It it was- he killed them before Kaylee and Maddie.

I can’t remember the times for certain- but that bag likely has a time stamp on it.

Gruesome questions for sure, I can’t help but be curious as the timeline is so tight.

IMO

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I want what the families want. Two families that wanted the agreement, I'm glad they received it. To the other parents, I want prison justice for them. By the grace of God there go I.

I believe imo that the accused murderer (don't want to say his name) thinks he's finally going to get the recognition he feels he deserves. He wants books written about him, criminologists to profile him. Prison may be ok for him for awhile. He will get prison mail, some will profess their love for him. He's not bundy or Peterson. He does not have the psycho charm to keep anyone's interest for too long. If he thinks he can counsel criminals in prison with all his intelligence, forget it. He got caught. I can see the prisoners using him, trying to extort money for protection. He simply doesn't have any value, only to himself. As far as his counsel touching and smiling at him, I know it's her job. A job that brought her notoriety. I know, we all deserve counsel. I just couldn't do it.

I pray for peace for the family. For him, eternal hell. This is his claim to fame, he's pathetic.

Not "accused" Just plain murderer.

 

[justtrish]

I would hope this is not something they come to regret if they opt not to.

What they need now is to be left alone, time to process and heal from the shock. No decisions need to be made now.

I hope this is a decision he would have made if it went to trial also. If he's not wanting to make a statement because he doesn't agree with the plea deal, then he just might regret it. I've seen where people write a statement and someone else reads it for them.

At least now he can just be mad at the lawyers and the judge. Imagine if a jury found him guilty and then sentenced him to LWOP. Would he be this angry then too?

 

[cottonweaver]

When DM told LE that BK was carrying a “container,” I think (total speculation) it was a bundled up and used murder kit, including a hazmat type suit he had been wearing, along with the knife, etc. I think he wore protective clothing, knowing what he was planning to do with the knife, and stripped off the bloody suit/clothing in the hallway after killing EC. JMO and total speculation. I have no facts to support this but when she said he was carrying a container, this is what occurred to me.

That detail about carrying a container really struck me too.
It's vague & generic but specific at the same time.

A bucket of some type?
But not a bag, or a trash bag - she would've recognised those objects?
Something she noticed in the dark - a white or pale bucket?
Containing the items you've mentioned, plus maybe two layers of gloves? plus some disposable bootees.

He'd used the bathroom - vaguely recall Defense alluding to that but please do correct if wrong. So he stripped down in the bathroom next to Xana's, put some items in - like the bootees into the bucket but still left a slight footprint near Dylan's bedroom because he stepped into some blood regardless.



sorry if this is re-hashing what's already been discussed in previous threads

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Jumping off this post. Where is the line between Opinion and Harassment?

Are people not allowed to call and voice an opinion on something regarding the court? If the answer is no, then calling would not be a viable option. If the answer was yes, then when did it become harassment? Were the callers rude, or threatening? If not, this should not be an issue at all. If they were, then that is on each individual. So then how does one let the courts know that there are people (and maybe a lot of them) who are not happy with the way they are being run?

The government, and that include the judges and prosecutors work for the people, not the other way around. There needs to be some way to tell them if what they are doing needs to be improved upon. If calling wasn't it, then what was/is? This country didn't start out with courts that worked this way. (not saying an old way was better, but maybe a new way would be better, too)

There is little worse that feeling like you have no control over your own life, or the justice for your loved ones. Like what is actually written down as a punishment never comes to pass (Cough*California*cough). At least if one felt like they had some kind of recourse to complain/try to change the system instead of being swept up in it, one might feel like there was something they can do. But instead people get told "You aren't allowed to question Authority!" with no "Here's what you can do instead." JMO

I don't know that SG's hostility is "misdirected". Maybe over the top at the moment. JMO.

The line for me starts with firing up people you don't know using the internet to flood the court with calls and potentially having some nut job decide to take the law in his own hands. My issue with SG is Judge Hippler didn't make the plea deal. The prosecutor made the deal. And instead of (or in addition to) asking for a meeting or sending the prosecutor an email or caling his office, SG attacks the prosecutor and judge publicly through the media. He's been doing that from the beginning--even though these people went from investigation to a guilty plea LWOP, no appeals, in less than three years on a stranger multiple homicide. And they were dogged all the way by SG's rage and criticism, which struck me back then and still strikes me now as counterproductive when he uses the media to try to manipulate the situation.

And for the life of me, I can not understand why an actual guilty plea, in court, isn't justice.

 

[Cedars]

Jumping off this post. Where is the line between Opinion and Harassment?

Are people not allowed to call and voice an opinion on something regarding the court? If the answer is no, then calling would not be a viable option. If the answer was yes, then when did it become harassment? Were the callers rude, or threatening? If not, this should not be an issue at all. If they were, then that is on each individual. So then how does one let the courts know that there are people (and maybe a lot of them) who are not happy with the way they are being run?

The government, and that include the judges and prosecutors work for the people, not the other way around. There needs to be some way to tell them if what they are doing needs to be improved upon. If calling wasn't it, then what was/is? This country didn't start out with courts that worked this way. (not saying an old way was better, but maybe a new way would be better, too)

There is little worse that feeling like you have no control over your own life, or the justice for your loved ones. Like what is actually written down as a punishment never comes to pass (Cough*California*cough). At least if one felt like they had some kind of recourse to complain/try to change the system instead of being swept up in it, one might feel like there was something they can do. But instead people get told "You aren't allowed to question Authority!" with no "Here's what you can do instead." JMO

I don't know that SG's hostility is "misdirected". Maybe over the top at the moment. JMO.

If just SG called and complained to the court, ok that can be handled. I bet many people who've been sentenced by this judge are unhappy too, and call him up to complain, too.

People do not seem to understand that unless you yourself are a victim or an alleged perpetrator, you are merely a spectator...

I used to compare most truecrime consumers to sports fans, but it's becoming even worse.

Do sports fans try to join the opposite team's side and force them to commit fouls? Do they riot on the court in order to force an umpire to change the call?

 

[Miss Poovy]

With recent discussion regarding Mr. G, thought I’d share an article about the stages of grief as I think it might be playing a role in how Steve G expresses himself sometimes and imo wears his emotions/heart on his sleeve which not a bad thing at all but imo opens him up to more scrutiny as he’s been a publically vocal presence advocating for justice for his viciously murdered beloved Daughter and her three viciously murdered friends. Of course the other families have been advocating for justice for their children/all the parents’ children as well just imo not as publicly/vocally as SG.

I think it’s important to remember that everyone is different and processes grief differently and that one of the hardest things in life for any parent to endure is the loss of their child, and I’d imagine especially so when it’s sudden/unexpected, due to being violently attacked and murdered. As a parent who fortunately hasn’t lost a child, I cannot fathom what all of these parents’ are going through and even though I don’t agree with asking people to call the court/Judge to try and influence/sway his decision (think there are more constructive ways to let the court know you’re not happy with their decisions, maybe write an email or letter etc.) but understand his anger and frustration in his not feeling the plea deal is in the best interests of justice for his Daughter. Some or none of us may agree with his sentiment.
I personally don’t agree with his sentiment regarding the plea agreement but realize my feelings are irrelevant to his, the Father of a brutally murdered full of life promising young woman, my God, unimaginable! SG is entitled to his feelings as are all the other parents’ involved. I don’t have to agree with some of the things he says and/or does and feel immense compassion and sympathy for him at the same time.

Back to grief, my bet is they aren’t all experiencing the same stages of grief at the same time and it sometimes takes longer for some people to move between the different stages. I have so much sympathy for all of the parents’ and stepparents’ involved, my heart breaks for their loss of their precious beautiful children.

Having said all of that, I’m hoping that as Mr. G moves further through the stages of grief, he can come to some sense of peace as I believe his beloved Daughter Kaylee would want that for him. Because SG’s imo been the most vocal grieving parent, gauging from his interviews I’ve seen and his expression of his thoughts and comments, my personal unprofessional opinion is that he may be experiencing/still in the anger stage of his grief and/or somewhere between or transitioning from anger to bargaining based on the NN video clip I watched of him last night where in part, apologized to Kaylee for not doing enough for her (broke my heart) which would fall under bargaining going by the descriptions under each stage of grief.
Also he mentioned not making a victim impact statement and I truly hope he rethinks that as imo he needs to speak directly to the monster which imo could be very cathartic in his journey toward moving through his grief and healing the pain of some of his internal wounds so to speak.

I snipped the two stages of grief Anger and Bargaining and how people going through the Anger stage can sometimes misdirect their anger and perhaps that is what SG is doing misdirecting his anger by lashing out at Prosecutors, Judge etc. as an outlet for what I imagine could go towards overwhelming anger. I thought it might be helpful understanding how a person who has lost a child and grieving can feel for them, and how it can look to/come across to others.

Snipped and BBM:

You may have heard people talk about the stages of grief. The truth is, while these stages are common grief reactions, everyone grieves differently, especially when grieving for a child.

The five stages of grief typically include denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.

Anger. Anger can be directed toward many people or things: yourself, God, doctors, or whoever else may be responsible (from your perspective) for the death of your child. In some cases, this anger may truly be justified, but outbursts will still only serve to push away your support system.

Anger in grief may feel like:

• Rage
• Resentment
• Frustration
• Impatience
• Embarrassment
• A lack of control

To others, your anger may be seen as:

• Sarcasm
• Cynicism
• Pessimism
• Irritability
• Passive-aggression
• Aggression
• Eagerness to fight
• Increased drug or alcohol use

Bargaining. Bargaining isn’t always about making a deal with a deity. Instead, bargaining often strives to get to the root cause of the tragedy you are experiencing. It may involve asking, “What did we do to deserve this?” It may also involve intense feelings of guilt as you search for a cause.
Internally, bargaining may feel like:

• Guilt
• Blame
• Shame
• Insecurity
• Anxiety/fear

To others, bargaining may be seen as:

• Judgment toward yourself and others
• Thinking or saying “I should have…” or “If only I had…”
• Assuming the worst about the future
• Ruminating on the past or what the future may bring
• Perfectionism
• Overthinking and anxiety

What to Know About Grieving the Death of a Child

Losing a child is never easy. Learn more about the stages of grief and how to cope with your loss.

www.webmd.com

IMHOO

Kaylee,Maddie,Xana,Ethan, you’ll never be forgotten. xx

If I remember correctly, the stages of grief are not linear, they may overlap or regress.

I hear folks when they say the plea deal is best, but stabbing, in my opinion, is probably one of the most violent, aggressive deaths. Especially if Kaylee was also hit violently and Ethan’s hamstrings were carved up. I can’t imagine the visible image that presents for the parents. If you have a certain personality, yes, the first stage may be long and hard and I can understand why SG would like to see the death penalty enforced.

 

[10ofRods]

Didn't we establish here on this forum that the purpose of that photo was to let his mother know he'd received the shirt she sent and that it fitted, that he had been in a phone call with his family as a matter of routine or because it was his birthday or something suchlike? IIRC

I do recall there was wide debate and discussion as to what it could possibly 'mean', why he was wearing his ear buds in the bathroom and a 'church' shirt on a Sunday when he'd just slaughtered some innocent young people etc. That there was some bruising coming up on his hand etc.

JMO MOO

The way I understand the transcript, he takes the picture after his return journey to the murder house at 9 am. We had heard, earlier, that he then drove the southern loop again - but that isn't mentioned in the facts of the case. Instead, he goes back to house where, I believe, he then takes that selfie.

He's happy because he went to check to see if police had been called and somehow, seeing on LE presence, regards that as a good time to take a happy selfie (rare for him, given his other selfies, one of which is also mentioned in the facts of the motion (the one on Dec 28).

If in fact, he was able to be gleefully happy about a shirt (no mention of whether he sent it to anyone), at such a time. Having just murdered 4 innocent people and having just revisited the scene of the crime, it's still a startling fact about his mental health. Birthday celebrations and gifts would be far from most people's minds.

No mention is made of him sending that photo to anyone. Perhaps he did. Maybe he was trying to confuse and bamboozle his parents (as he was preparing to pack most of his possessions, knowing that there was a possibility that he was about to be expelled).

He had received notice of the University's intent to pursue disciplinary action on that Saturday before, IIRC>

 

[Megnut]

Jumping off this post. Where is the line between Opinion and Harassment?

Are people not allowed to call and voice an opinion on something regarding the court? If the answer is no, then calling would not be a viable option. If the answer was yes, then when did it become harassment? Were the callers rude, or threatening? If not, this should not be an issue at all. If they were, then that is on each individual. So then how does one let the courts know that there are people (and maybe a lot of them) who are not happy with the way they are being run?

The government, and that include the judges and prosecutors work for the people, not the other way around. There needs to be some way to tell them if what they are doing needs to be improved upon. If calling wasn't it, then what was/is? This country didn't start out with courts that worked this way. (not saying an old way was better, but maybe a new way would be better, too)

There is little worse that feeling like you have no control over your own life, or the justice for your loved ones. Like what is actually written down as a punishment never comes to pass (Cough*California*cough). At least if one felt like they had some kind of recourse to complain/try to change the system instead of being swept up in it, one might feel like there was something they can do. But instead people get told "You aren't allowed to question Authority!" with no "Here's what you can do instead." JMO

I don't know that SG's hostility is "misdirected". Maybe over the top at the moment. JMO.

It's about timing IMO.

Judge SH is the sitting judge on this case. Addressing him in any manner outside the courtroom has the capacity to throw a trial. Even an appearance of impropriety derails trust in the system. Threats, pressure, force, harassment, coercion, blackmailing, begging, buying -- all bad.

IMO the judge was compelled to raise it on the record, no different than if a defendant mailed him money to side with him. Judge SH was clear, he was not influenced by that misguided campaign, that he turned it over without listening to it, and that he does as his job requires, applies the laws as he understands them. It's his responsibility to run his courtroom in such a way the law is upheld, protecting BK's rights (because he was the accused) and as such the rights of every man or woman accused.

Public sentiment in that regard, rather than trying to persuade/bribe/threaten a sitting judge, has actual recourse -- the long, hard way, changing the laws, should they need changing.

Once BK is sentenced to four fixed life sentences +10 years, concurrently or consecutively or repackaged as LWOP +300 years, I hope everyone impacted by the loss of these four young people who were embarking on their futures will find a way to decompress. To find enough joy to temper the sorrow, hope to overcome despair and laughter to balance the tears.

That is how we win.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

Jumping off this post. Where is the line between Opinion and Harassment?

Are people not allowed to call and voice an opinion on something regarding the court? If the answer is no, then calling would not be a viable option. If the answer was yes, then when did it become harassment? Were the callers rude, or threatening? If not, this should not be an issue at all. If they were, then that is on each individual. So then how does one let the courts know that there are people (and maybe a lot of them) who are not happy with the way they are being run?

The government, and that include the judges and prosecutors work for the people, not the other way around. There needs to be some way to tell them if what they are doing needs to be improved upon. If calling wasn't it, then what was/is? This country didn't start out with courts that worked this way. (not saying an old way was better, but maybe a new way would be better, too)

There is little worse that feeling like you have no control over your own life, or the justice for your loved ones. Like what is actually written down as a punishment never comes to pass (Cough*California*cough). At least if one felt like they had some kind of recourse to complain/try to change the system instead of being swept up in it, one might feel like there was something they can do. But instead people get told "You aren't allowed to question Authority!" with no "Here's what you can do instead." JMO

I don't know that SG's hostility is "misdirected". Maybe over the top at the moment. JMO.

The courts work for All the People, not simply the loudest most outspoken victims of crimes.
It seems clear that all of the families were asked about the possibility of a plea, and the DP, and they voiced their feelings/ viewpoints/ wishes.
SG expected his wishes to happen and when they didn’t he took his wishes to the press. He did this in an angry way, stating that he was let down so all the families were let down.
SG went further, he asked people to call in and complain to the court thinking he could make the court do what he wanted the court to do.

We now know that some families wanted the plea deal, some did not want the death penalty, some did not want a trial or to testify. These feelings are just as important as SGs.

In my view- SG’s actions are at least misdirected and at most harassment. I agree with the judges actions and his anger. If I was a member of any of the families that did not agree with SG I would be furious.
Did he call the other families and ask them their thoughts? Did he show anger to them when they didn’t agree with him?

How does a plea deal vs trial impact the other families?
There are two survivors that were in the house, and likely will be traumatized for the rest of their lives. Maybe they did not want a trial.
There are two young people who showed up at the house when 911 was called- maybe they did not want to testify?
Some of the young people lost friends, saw things, and experienced fear they will have for life.
I simply cannot see why SG thinks his feelings should over-ride what clearly may be the best call for these traumatized young people who were in that house that night and in the morning.

If he thinks pushing his wishes is what Kaylee would want him to do- that doesn’t seem true.
He is then saying Kaylee would want to retraumatize the survivors and other young people, and other families, and not have their feelings considered.
I don’t think that is true

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

These as the facts as I understand them- which do imply an order of events and very tight timeline.

- Door Dash arrives to Xana- likely to the front door and not the rear sliding door.
- Door Dash driver sees BK. (I don’t know if they saw BK in the car, or outside the car, or just his car, and if the car where it was seen.)
- Order is eaten in kitchen or removed from bag and walked to bedroom leaving bag in kitchen. Yes, crime scene photos show Xana’s Jack in the Box bag near a sink- looks like the kitchen.
New York Post article Jan 2023 showing Jack in the Box bag near kitchen sink.
- BK through sliding glass door, had to walk through the kitchen to enter and exit.

Did BK sit in car or near sliding door and watch for a several minutes before entering the house?
Did BK see Xana leave the bag in the kitchen and go back to her bedroom?
Why was the bag left on the kitchen counter and not in the trashcan?
If BK went upstairs first- it seems unlikely he could have done so without first noting Xana was there and where she was located.

I suppose the order of events would be cleared up if Xana’s or Ethan’s blood was found upstairs. It it was- he killed them before Kaylee and Maddie.

I can’t remember the times for certain- but that bag likely has a time stamp on it.

Gruesome questions for sure, I can’t help but be curious as the timeline is so tight.

IMO

I would be very, very surprised if the order of events as stated in the fact portion of yesterday's hearing are not supported by forensic evidence, probably copious amounts of it. They would know who was bleeding out first upstairs, and who came second. IMO.

Then, there were probably blood footprints going down but not up the stairs. They fade out to the latent prints, which were then studied using reagents to make them visible again - that's how we know that he did walk by DM's door, as she stated. By the time he got to the slider, I am guessing no more latent prints.

They would also know whether E and X's blood was part of the composition of any of the latent prints and whether he went upstairs again after killing them (he didn't, according to the fact statement). It's actually not complete clear that both women on the third floor were actually dead at that time. The fact statement says he put the sheath "next to" MM's body. He agreed that's what he did when he agreed to the facts. Yet, we had heard that the sheath was "partially" underneath her body, so perhaps MM was still moving slightly. That would not be surprising in a stabbing.

This is making me think about whether he did toss the sheath on the bed as a kind of calling card. I realize that's sort of an "out there" theory, but the wording of the facts made me ponder this. This would be in keeping with him having somehow fixated on MM. He might have thought KG had moved out entirely. He may have watched her pack her car and therefore been enraged and surprised at finding KG in MM's room.

I am guessing there will be many more facts once this case is closed and the various documents are no longer suppressed.

IMO.

 

[Cedars]

The line for me starts with firing up people you don't know using the internet to flood the court with calls and potentially having some nut job decide to take the law in his own hands. My issue with SG is Judge Hippler didn't make the plea deal. The prosecutor made the deal. And instead of (or in addition to) asking for a meeting or sending the prosecutor an email or caling his office, SG attacks the prosecutor and judge publicly through the media. He's been doing that from the beginning--even though these people went from investigation to a guilty plea LWOP, no appeals, in less than three years on a stranger multiple homicide. And they were dogged all the way by SG's rage and criticism, which struck me back then and still strikes me now as counterproductive when he uses the media to try to manipulate the situation.

And for the life of me, I can not understand why an actual guilty plea, in court, isn't justice.

I think some compassion can be also be generated for people whose beautiful daughters and sons are missing and murdered - but they don't know for sure and the murderer has gotten away with it

There is an ocean of grief in the world, and I think remembering that can allow people to accept their lack of control over other's people's violent actions.

 

[Stratocaster]

Criminal mind profiling here....when BK goes back to the scene, confirmed with the mid-morning reported phone pings....in his twisted little mind, he's perturbed there has been no law enforcement action at the house, as of yet

JMO

 

[Miss Poovy]

The way I understand the transcript, he takes the picture after his return journey to the murder house at 9 am. We had heard, earlier, that he then drove the southern loop again - but that isn't mentioned in the facts of the case. Instead, he goes back to house where, I believe, he then takes that selfie.

He's happy because he went to check to see if police had been called and somehow, seeing on LE presence, regards that as a good time to take a happy selfie (rare for him, given his other selfies, one of which is also mentioned in the facts of the motion (the one on Dec 28).

If in fact, he was able to be gleefully happy about a shirt (no mention of whether he sent it to anyone), at such a time. Having just murdered 4 innocent people and having just revisited the scene of the crime, it's still a startling fact about his mental health. Birthday celebrations and gifts would be far from most people's minds.

No mention is made of him sending that photo to anyone. Perhaps he did. Maybe he was trying to confuse and bamboozle his parents (as he was preparing to pack most of his possessions, knowing that there was a possibility that he was about to be expelled).

He had received notice of the University's intent to pursue disciplinary action on that Saturday before, IIRC>

I know this is mean, but if my kid sent me a creepy photo as a thank you for a gift . . . may be the last one he received!

 

[AngTxGal]

I would be very, very surprised if the order of events as stated in the fact portion of yesterday's hearing are not supported by forensic evidence, probably copious amounts of it. They would know who was bleeding out first upstairs, and who came second. IMO.

Then, there were probably blood footprints going down but not up the stairs. They fade out to the latent prints, which were then studied using reagents to make them visible again - that's how we know that he did walk by DM's door, as she stated. By the time he got to the slider, I am guessing no more latent prints.

They would also know whether E and X's blood was part of the composition of any of the latent prints and whether he went upstairs again after killing them (he didn't, according to the fact statement). It's actually not complete clear that both women on the third floor were actually dead at that time. The fact statement says he put the sheath "next to" MM's body. He agreed that's what he did when he agreed to the facts. Yet, we had heard that the sheath was "partially" underneath her body, so perhaps MM was still moving slightly. That would not be surprising in a stabbing.

This is making me think about whether he did toss the sheath on the bed as a kind of calling card. I realize that's sort of an "out there" theory, but the wording of the facts made me ponder this. This would be in keeping with him having somehow fixated on MM. He might have thought KG had moved out entirely. He may have watched her pack her car and therefore been enraged and surprised at finding KG in MM's room.

I am guessing there will be many more facts once this case is closed and the various documents are no longer suppressed.

IMO.

I wasn’t intending to dispute what was said in court, I was trying to figure out the order of events related to when the Door Dash driver saw BK and how the DD bag got into the kitchen before he was in the house.

If he agreed to KG and MM first, then he turned and went up stairs first thing upon entering the house. But, we don’t know if XK took the bag to the kitchen before or after he was in the house.

Regarding the sheath-
What we do have to consider is that he had some sort of kit- and changed clothes. He likely did this in the house. Maybe coveralls or something- because no blood in the car.
If he had coveralls over his clothes- then this may explain why the sheath wasn’t on a belt. A belt would be one more step.
But… sheath not on a belt meant one hand was busy holding the sheath and knife?
Then one hand was holding that knife without a sheath? Walking around in the dark?
How could you miss that sheath by accident walking back down stairs if you had the knife in the sheath on the way up the stairs?
Where did he put the sharp knife while walking around?

The fact that he may have been walking around with the knife in one hand exposed says to me either he was interrupted, heard something, thought someone saw him and he had to act, or he left the sheath on purpose.
If he left it as a calling card- it was a stupid move- he missed DNA 101 as a CJ student.

Interesting yet gruesome questions

IMO

 

[Cedars]

This is making me think about whether he did toss the sheath on the bed as a kind of calling card. I realize that's sort of an "out there" theory, but the wording of the facts made me ponder this. This would be in keeping with him having somehow fixated on MM. He might have thought KG had moved out entirely. He may have watched her pack her car and therefore been enraged and surprised at finding KG in MM's room.

I am guessing there will be many more facts once this case is closed and the various documents are no longer suppressed.

IMO.

I've watch the forensic psychologist on Hidden True Crime (approved source), he says if it was intentional that it was entirely unconscious. More likely it was just a rookie mistake. He should have attached it to his belt.

He opines that Kohberger had studied forensics, and wanted to commit the perfect crime. Even before BK was arrested the forensic psychologist believed it was a crime of revenge - against women who had rejected him and then, once his background was revealed, also against the criminolgy dept/hopes for an LE career that he was failing.

Makes sense to me.