GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #111

[pittsburghgirl]

I listened to every word and feel he has the right to express any and all feelings of hatred and also to wish the worst on the person who committed such an unspeakable crime against his beloved daughter.

He wasn't "wishing." He was calling for a prisoner to give BK a "gift."

 

[Bekind89]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1940934873751212339

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article309964765.html

[…]

Childhood friends of Bryan Kohberger, who pleaded guilty Wednesdayto stabbing four University of Idaho students to death in November 2022, have tracked his murder case from afar and said they felt shocked the former Pennsylvania resident suddenly agreed to a plea deal to spare his life.

“I won’t lie, I kind of spiraled yesterday,” Casey Arntz, 32, told the Idaho Statesman in a text Thursday. “Did he ever have thoughts like that before? Did he ever think that he wanted to kill me or my friends? Were we spared because we were friends with him?”

[…]

Kohberger’s admissions in court finally put any question of his culpability to bed for Jack Baylis, 31, another of their group of friends at the time.

“You wouldn’t plead guilty to it unless you did that,” he said in a phone interview Thursday. “If you were framed, you’d be fighting tooth and nail.”

Kohberger’s decision to take people’s lives was additionally disheartening, he said, because he had kicked his drug habit and seemingly had a life direction. But the desire to learn about people who commit murder — an area of interest for Kohberger — took hold, and he likely wanted to see whether he could get away with the perfect crime, Baylis said.

“I think he did it to see what it felt like, to experience it. If he wanted to write a paper about what killers feel and why they kill, to be accurate, you have to experience it yourself to truly understand it,” Baylis said. “To get into the mind of a killer, you have to be a killer, would be my guess.”

[…]

He looks so evil, demonic really.
From reading and observing crime cases most of my life it seems to me that most DP criminals die of natural causes before they can be put to death

Please correct me if I'm wrong , but that is one reason why I don't believe in the DP. It drags on for literally decades.
My heart breaks for the victims.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Recalling a couple of words from his internet searches, I find myself remembering that his primary crime -- sexually motivated -- may have been to dominate a woman who could not fight back. Would he have left her alive? Was murder part of the fantasy?

Oft reported men fear being laughed at and women fear being killed.

Maybe his fantasy required a woman who couldn't laugh at his performance, whatever that looked like. Incapacitated? Unconscious? Dead? Necrophilia? Back to sheath as a signature...

Perhaps part of the fantasy was being remembered/credited for a string of terrorizing assaults, like Bundy. He didn't anticipate getting caught at the front end.

JMO

As we don't know what tools / weapons or substances he had about him, it's hard to say what his intention was but IMO his one and only plan was to leave zero evidence, therefore he couldn't touch any victim (probably MM) except with his gloves on and using implements. If he took his phone in the house with him, then maybe take pictures. He must have accounted somehow for rendering the victim unconscious but actual murder? Maybe not, maybe something else IMO. JMO.

 

[LAborn]

I listened to every word and feel he has the right to express any and all feelings of hatred and also to wish the worst on the person who committed such an unspeakable crime against his beloved daughter.

So far in the US we have a right to free speech, but no one has the right to elicit violence be inflicted on another legally. Wishing ill will is one thing, but that's not all he did.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Did you listen to what he said? He's basically soliciting prisoners to "take care" of BK in prison.

Oddly, people on true crime sites do that, and it's not even their daughter.

I did listen to what he said. He said "Maybe they'll have a welcome package for him." That can mean anything. Maybe SG hopes that BKs life in prison will not end up a cake walk (I doubt it will). Maybe he hopes someone will beat him up. Maybe he hopes for something worse. But he didn't say "Hey, kill this guy and I'll put money in your commissary account". (I want to say someone did this in some case, but it's just a vague memory).

I'll be honest, I was relieved when Dahmer died. No chance he could get out somehow and do it to anyone else. Where there is life there is hope, and that includes in prison.

How many people die when multiple life sentence inmates escape? See below for the family of 5 who did.

ESCAPED: The Centerville killings

The Collins family was on a summer trip when they crossed paths with a dangerous escapee. Now, their story is at the center of a powerful KHOU 11+ Original.

www.khou.com

'Time for people to heal' | Recapping one year since the Gonzalo Lopez-Centerville tragedy

In May of 2022, Gonzalo Lopez hijacked a prison bus while being transported, setting off a major manhunt. We looked back at how it changed Centerville a year later.

www.kagstv.com

It's OK if you don't like what SG says. I, personally, understand why he feels like he does. JMO, as always.

Eta:another article

 

[gremlin444]

I think Kohberger concocted claims of visual snow to discuss his absence of emotional connection with others. He claims that fuzzy vision means that others are video game people rather than real people. That's absurd.

The below comments are attributed to Kohberger. He seems to be using a symptom that is often associated with migraine to describe his absence of emotional connection to others; to objectify them and portray them as two dimensional people.

Visual snow and ocular migraine (also known by other names) is a temporary visual disturbance (typically lasting 20 minutes, followed by head pain) that interferes with reading, driving, doing anything that relies on vision. I have personal experience with this after a concussion. It is a type of migraine that has absolutely nothing to do with perceptions of others.

I think that Kohberger wanted to discuss his absence of emotion, and used visual perception as a spring-board. He's trying to be clever by camouflaging his sociopathic tendencies as a visual barrier.

"The man charged with the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students has spent much of his teen and adult life consumed by a rare neurological disorder known as visual snow syndrome.
...
Looking into the faces of family members was like “looking at a video game, but less.”

“As my family group hugs and celebrates, I am stuck in this void of nothing, feeling completely no emotion, feeling nothing,” the post said. “I feel dirty, like there is dirt inside of my head, my mind, I am always dizzy and confused. I feel no self worth.”

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article273153545.html

BBM points in your post

I feel that many people have a very over simplified, outdated, and dismissive attitude towards visual snow syndrome. And honestly, in many ways this is as harmful as the way people used to describe/view autism as all being one thing instead of a syndrome. It makes it harder for people to identify what is going on with themselves, ask for help, and get a correct diagnosis.

Believe me, I believe 100% BK is guilty and entirely responsible for his actions. But I've always been interested in criminal psychology as well as the interplay between mental health and medical disorders.

And yes, I have stakes in the game--my 23 yo son has suffered from intense VSS since he was 17. I've been to all the specialists with him, devoured studies and medical articles about it, been through the whole 10 yrds. And since he has had OCD since he was a very young child and started experiencing severe depersonalization/derealization after his VSS started, I've had a front row seat to how these things can interact with each other and how it can affect a person and their family.

He doesn't follow the case on here, but he's read enough in the news and other sites, and is quite frankly frustrated with the amount of misinformation about VSS that is in the public thanks to this case.

I'm going to put some links here--these are the source for the facts I'm using to address particular points of your post (and other posts that have I've seen here. I'm limiting myself in how many sources I cite, because honestly after dealing with this for 6 yrs now I've got a ton of them.

https://www.aao.org/eyenet/article/visual-snow-neuro-ophthalmology

Visual Snow Syndrome - NORD (National Organization for Rare Disorders)

rarediseases.org

Visual Snow Syndrome (Static Vision)

With visual snow syndrome, you see static whether your eyes are open or shut. Learn more about what it's like looking through a shaken snow globe.

my.clevelandclinic.org

https://headachejournal.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/head.14213

1) Visual snow is not the same as ocular migraines or migraine auras. That is part of why it can be very difficult to diagnose. People with VSS do have an prevalence of migraines that is higher than that of the general population. However migraines are NOT the cause of the VSS, but they can worsen the VSS when migraines are present. Around 2015 is when researchers and experts really began to acknowledge VSS as an entirely separate syndrome.

"While in migraine, the hyperactivity of certain areas of the brain is transient; in the case of visual snow, this disorder is permanent." Visual Snow Syndrome in Patient with Migraine: Case Report and Literature Review - PMC

2) Visual snow syndrome can not be described as merely "fuzzy vision." Visual snow is present in the person's entire visual field and is characterized by uncountable tiny flickering dots laid over whatever the person is looking at. The static is usually B&W but can also be colored, flashing or transparent and can be seen no matter if your eyes are open or closed.

Additionally, up to 75% of people with VSS report having at least 3 out of 4 of these secondary visual problems:

• Seeing trailers after an item has already moved or gone (palinopsia)
• Sensitivity to light (photophobia)
• Night vision issues (nyctalopia) that can also include seeing vivid auras from lights at nighttime
• Visual perceptions that arise from inside the eye rather than the outside world such as seeing lights when your eyes are closed and you are in a dark room, floaters, etc.

for some really good visual depictions of what VSS and the secondary symptoms can look like:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Examples-of-visual-phenomena-in-visual-snow-syndrome-A-Normal-vision-B-Visual-snow-C_fig1_376412145

3) The description of seeing other people/the world as being like a video game as well as the flattening of emotional connections is depersonalization/derealization and can absolutely go hand in hand with severe VSS.

Derealization frequently co-occurs with depersonalization.

depersonalization: subjective feelings of detachment from the physical body and mental processes, and can involve a diminished sense of agency or feelings of being “robotic” ...feeling like an outside observer of their mind and body--a disconnect from oneself
derealization: the sense that the surrounding world is unreal or artificial--a disconnect from the external world and an inability to emotionally connect to people you love or see them as real

Frontiers | The Psychiatric Symptomology of Visual Snow Syndrome

Objective: To characterise the psychiatric symptoms of visual snow syndrome (VSS), and determine their relationship to quality of life and severity of visual...

www.frontiersin.org

Depersonalization-derealization disorder - Symptoms and causes

www.mayoclinic.org

lightly edited to compact info together:
"Depersonalisation scores showed the most consistent relationship with the number of visual symptoms and patient ratings of VS severity. Depersonalization scores were also found to contribute significantly to VS intensity and the number of symptoms experienced. Nearly 45% of VSS patients in this study reported having experienced depersonalization, and over 25% showed scores above the scale cut-off indicating a possible depersonalization disorder. This suggests that depersonalization is not only common in VSS, but is severe in a significant number of patients. Derealization was also reported by ~30% patients.

High rates of depersonalization have been reported previously in patients with vestibular dysfunction retinal disease, and chronic dizziness. It has been theorised that feelings of depersonalisation may be evoked by a discrepancy between expected sensory input and actual aberrant sensory experience; or, alternatively, by a discrepancy between signals from different sensory systems due to one or more being disrupted."

And now some other things that often come up in discussions and info on them can be found throughout all the links in the post:

4) Severe anxiety or related disorders like OCD as well as depression are quite common in people who have more severe VSS. (see the frontiersin.org referenced above).

Some of this is chicken or egg: did you have anxiety or depression before VSS or did you develop them after your VSS started. With OCD, that would be something a person has before VSS...and it makes it much worse.

5) Some people with VSS can drive, read, do things at night, etc because there is a such a spectrum of severity as well as the fact that some people find improvement of symptoms with different medications (sadly, not many though...medications don't have a great success rate in VSS), cognitive behavioral therapy or time. Anxiety, poor sleep, psych meds, can make it worse.

My son's would categorize his VSS after 6 years as not as severe--but mainly, he says, because he's learned to accept it and not fight it/let his OCD obsess about it. He prefers nighttime to day because of the sensitivity to light, and he actually doesn't have particularly diminished night vision. He doesn't drive (for other unrelated reasons), but says that the only time other cars' headlights and street lights bother him when he's in the car with us is when there is a lot of other cars and many closely spaced streetlights or when his VSS is aggravated by the factors mentioned in #5.

6) Sleep difficulties are a frequent complaint among people with VSS. Patients often report difficulty sleeping due to the distraction of their visual symptoms in the dark, which are present with the eyes open or closed. The sleep issues can be increased time to fall asleep, lots of sleep disturbances, and poor sleep quality and efficiency.

So, I've read all the tapatalk posts once they were first uncovered and verified by NYT.

I'll say this--I believe those posts, and so do many parents I've talked to who also have kids with VSS. I had a hard enough time finding much detail information about VSS in 2019 when my son was diagnosed. There would have been so much less info in 2009 when BK started posting about it in tapatalk. Let me reiterate from above: Around 2015 is when researchers and experts began to fully and publicly acknowledge VSS as an entirely separate syndrome and that's when more information about the links between VSS and mental health conditions finally started appearing in more and more of the literature about it online. And in 2009, I can guarantee you that if BK just was looking up depersonalization/derealization online, articles on VSS were not going to just be popping up in relation to it.

When I read those posts (the actual ones on tapatalk, not just a summary in a news article), so many things jumped out at me that are things I mentioned above as well as other things I didn't go into detail about:

--co-morbid tinnitus (discussed in several of the previous links)
--dp/dr
--worsening after high levels of caffeine, hours of staring at a screen
--multiple sleep issues
--co-morbid migraines (which research now shows is not a cause of VSS but a co-occurence.
--light sensitivity
--afterimages
--seeing weird things in his peripheral vision like flickering lights
--memory issues/brain fog
--saw an optometrist, ophthalmologist, neuro-opthalmologist, therapist...tried different meds, had an MRI
--closed eye visuals

and so on

I believe BK had mental health issues such as OCD before the VSS. And that years of VSS and DPDR had a huge impact on him. Does it explain or excuse his horrible crimes? Absolutely NO.

But it does give insight.

 

[MassGuy]

According to this court doc, BK shopped at Albertsons the same day of the murders (November 13, 2022) for only seven minutes before checking out at the self checkout:

View attachment 599803

BK apparently did his regularly shopping (for food or women, who’s to say) at the 24-hour WinCo in Moscow. The closest Albertson’s to Pullman, WA is the one in Lewiston, Idaho, a 42-minute drive from BK’s apartment in Pullman. There are no Albertson’s near BK’s hometown in Pennsylvania.

According to the same court doc, BK tried to shop at Costco first, but he left immediately, probably because he didn’t have a membership card. He then drove past a Walmart store before moving on to Albertson’s.

All this is to say that I think BK wanted to buy something to eat instead of something to destroy evidence with, and I doubt BK was super-familiar with the Albertson’s grocery store layout.

He likely grabbed a piece of fruit and some nuts in the produce department near the store entrance, a drink from the nearby refrigerated section, then checked out.

View attachment 599829
Produce section of the Albertson’s in Clarkston, WA (Source)

So, then, why on earth would BK drive 46 minutes south from his Pullman apartment to Clarkston to buy lunch at a grocery store (where he could use the self-checkout to avoid drawing attention to himself)?

Well, the address of the Albertson’s in Clarkston is 400 Bridge Street. Unsurprisingly, this street turns into a bridge over the part of the Snake River that flows north and forms part of the boundary between Washington and Idaho.

Bridge Street (highlighted in yellow) joins Clarkston with Lewiston, ID, which during the plea hearing Bill Thompson called the port city of Idaho since it’s positioned at the confluence of the Snake River and Idaho’s Clearwater River:

View attachment 599821
Source: Apple Maps

As first hypothesized on Jan 7, 2023 by @Elliemay, and discussed on WS quite a bit afterwards by @10ofRods, @iamshadow21, @DisplacedDivaofthe6C and others, I think BK may have been scouting for places to dump his knife in the Snake River. He needed daylight for that.

Now, if the Azget Industries video shared earlier by @MassGuy (and by another WS before an approved media source referenced it) is correct about BK burying his kill kit in a pre-dug hole off Sand Road just over the state line in Washington immediately after the murders while his phone was still turned off, then here’s the path BK may have driven from 1122 King Road to the pre-dug hole (note that the route takes so long because it is the walking path generated by Google maps to the burial site, following drivable roads—otherwise, Google generates a shorter route that includes a highway, which the State thinks BK avoided since his car was not captured on camera there):

View attachment 599835
Source: Google Maps.

The red pin in the map above marks the location of the possible pre-dug hole, which you can see here (note the road pullout and stand of trees):

View attachment 599840
Source: Google Maps

Later that same day, according to the Probable Cause Affidavit, BK’s phone utilized cellular resources that cover Johnson, WA (the PCA incorrectly states that the city is in ID, which doesn’t exist) from 5:32 pm to 5:36 pm:
View attachment 599804
Note that it was dark by 4:50 pm that day, and that Johnson is a short drive south of Pullman:

View attachment 599843
Source: Apple Maps

According to the PCA, BK’s phone then stopped reporting to the network from around 5:36 pm to 8:30 pm.

Interestingly, it is another short drive from Johnson to the possible burial site of BK’s kill kit:

View attachment 599830
Source: Google Maps

So it’s possible that BK temporarily stashed his kill kit in a pre-dug hole in the early morning darkness (immediately after the murders while his phone was turned off), then, after darkness returned again late the same afternoon, BK turned his phone off once again, retrieved his kill kit, drove back to the Clarkston-Lewiston area and threw his kill kit into the Snake or Clearwater River. He had three bridges to pick from:

View attachment 599818
Source: Apple Maps

Of course, if BK already safely buried his kill kit in that pre-dug hole in Washington, why bother digging it up and throwing it in a river? Well, Bill Thompson did discuss the Snake and Clearwater Rivers during the plea hearing, and he also said they never found the murder weapon. I’m pretty confident LE used metal detectors and cadaver dogs to check out the potential burial site discussed in the video and shown in this post, and any other plausible burial site, but came up empty.

(Speculation)

Yeah. That morning trip only really makes sense if he’s dumping evidence, so If he buried that stuff, I’m sure it’s at the bottom of the river now.

He absolutely is not keeping that stuff with him immediately following the murders, as police could be at his door any minute.

 

[otto]

I think the wishes of the two remaining triplets is especially important. They are missing one-third of themselves. Is it best for them to put this behind them, and remember Ethan for the best that he could be?

Or is it better for them, being the same age as Kohberger, to spend the rest of their lives re-living the loss as Kohberger spends the next several decades attempting to manipulate the legal system?

Maybe the parents should rely more on what the victim's siblings want for their lives, as they have more years to live with it (than much older parents).

 

[wildblue]

Sentencing is based on rehabilitation in some countries, and punishment in others. Kohberger is dealing with the punishment system. Revenge shouldn't be a factor, but it is part of the punishment system.

The families of one or more of the victims want a death sentence for Kohberger because it feels like the correct punishment. As we all know, death sentence appeals drag out for decades. Each court action will result in notifications where family of victims feel that it is their responsibility to show up and represent the deceased family member.

There are four families. If the majority of those families takes the position that life in a concrete box is appropriate, where they will never have to think of Kohberger again for the rest of their lives, but one of those families wants to deal with Kohberger's appeals for the next 30 years (look at Scott Peterson), then what is the best option?

With the wishes of 8 parents plus siblings to consider, maybe the decision addresses the wishes of the majority.

We don’t know the breakdown of the family members who wanted life vs those who wanted the death penalty but to ram this plea down the throats of those wanting the latter, with basically no notice or consideration to their feelings, is untenable.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

He looks so evil, demonic really.
From reading and observing crime cases most of my life it seems to me that most DP criminals die of natural causes before they can be put to death

Please correct me if I'm wrong , but that is one reason why I don't believe in the DP. It drags on for literally decades.
My heart breaks for the victims.

Lifer Criminals live tortuous lives IMO and torture is not meant to be built into the prison concept.

I don't personally believe in the DP but compared to being tortured every day til you die, DP might be nicer.

The idea of never getting out, never seeing daylight, never travelling, driving a car, getting a bus, riding a bike, going swimming, smelling fresh air, standing on a mountain, feeling the rain falling, having a pet, going for a beer, watching a movie, walking in the park, chatting with a friend, playing sport, no TV or Radio, all the mundane things we take for granted, totally... OVER.

That is a form of torture because what they do have is hellish noise, unregulated temperatures hot / cold, food not fit for animals, constant stress, discomfort etc.

If I thought they were all doing life growing plants on their windowledges, making artwork, reading books, and learning new stuff, attending classes, doing tasks and obligations, it might be a bit more digestible than us humans have created a torture system for people who are antisocial and dangerous.

 

[Ghostwheel]

So an admission of guilt to all charges in open court is not "true justice"? What would be "true justice" for the slaughter of 4 young people?

Eye for an eye. Death for a death. This is truly what some believe.

 

[wildblue]

BK changed his plea to guilty. That's the whole objective is to get a guilty verdict. From there the DA and defense determine what that includes. Everyone here is saying the death penalty is only an option with a jury trial. The DA got the maximum. The families won't have to think about BK ever getting out, ever appealing the sentence, nothing more. No one ever gets over the loss of a child, but at the least they don't have to keep going back to the legal system and reopening the wound. There is no miscarriage of justice with what occurred in terms of the court process, the DA and judge have zero control over BK deciding to plead guilty, which again is the whole objective.

I believe the whole objective of the prosecution and court is to get justice, be it guilty or not guilty, death, life or freedom. The prosecutor didn’t have to accept the plea and nor did the judge.

The families will always have to worry until the murderer no longer takes breath. Look what happened with the Menendez brothers and what if some misguided governor decides to pardon him.

 

[Bekind89]

Lifer Criminals live tortuous lives IMO and torture is not meant to be built into the prison concept.

I don't personally believe in the DP but compared to being tortured every day til you die, DP might be nicer.

The idea of never getting out, never seeing daylight, never travelling, driving a car, getting a bus, riding a bike, going swimming, smelling fresh air, standing on a mountain, feeling the rain falling, having a pet, going for a beer, watching a movie, walking in the park, chatting with a friend, playing sport, no TV or Radio, all the mundane things we take for granted, totally... OVER.

That is a form of torture because what they do have is hellish noise, unregulated temperatures hot / cold, food not fit for animals, constant stress, discomfort etc.

If I thought they were all doing life growing plants on their windowledges, making artwork, reading books, and learning new stuff, attending classes, doing tasks and obligations, it might be a bit more digestible than us humans have created a torture system for people who are antisocial and dangerous.

I couldn't agree more. I would prefer death over living in the abysmal, shameful, dangerous prison system.
Our prison system is a disgrace.

 

[browneyes]

Eye for an eye. Death for a death. This is truly what some believe.

It’s not what our justice system is based on. BK will never be punished enough for his heinous actions, but he plainly stated he premeditated the murders and accepts responsibility…as cold as he was. It matters that the prosecution has ensured he can never, ever hurt anyone again. In our society, it’s the just outcome. JMHO

 

[otto]

We don’t know the breakdown of the family members who wanted life vs those who wanted the death penalty but to ram this plea down the throats of those wanting the latter, with basically no notice or consideration to their feelings, is untenable.

The victim's siblings should be able to put this behind them and focus on their best memories of their deceased family member. Should they be sentenced to a lifetime of feeling obligated to deal with decades of appeals from Kohberger? I don't think so.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I believe the whole objective of the prosecution and court is to get justice, be it guilty or not guilty, death, life or freedom. The prosecutor didn’t have to accept the plea and nor did the judge.

The families will always have to worry until the murderer no longer takes breath. Look what happened with the Menendez brothers and what if some misguided governor decides to pardon him.

The plea deal, as read by the judge, stated that BK was not allowed to seek or accept any kind of clemency or pardon or lessening of his sentence. So they thought of that and killed it for him.

 

[Arkay]

Until the murderer ceases to breathe, they will have no rest. I don’t believe there is ever any cessation to the grief or obtaining a feeling of peace having lost a child, particularly in such a violent manner.

Freedom of opinions here, of course, but to me it seems as if these two sentences actually contradict each other.

They will have no rest, as you state, until the “murderer ceases to breathe.” Next you state (and I agree), that you don’t believe “there is ever any cessation to the grief.”

Therefore, Steve could watch Bryan be killed, four times if that were possible, but it would not end his grief over losing Kaylee.

Also, it’s impossible to both kill and not kill Bryan. The wishes of the two families that wanted this plea deal are no less important, just because they carry their grief differently.

I’m a mother and a grandmother, and I don’t know how I’d ever find peace if this happened in my family.

The trouble IMO is not that Steve is loud, he should be loud if that’s what he needs, but that he is implicitly suggesting violence with this talk about Idaho vs. a Pennsylvania “city boy.” Which, by the way, Bryan lived a rural life. Steve is just talking in code.

I have earlier posts in these threads asking for grace for Steve, but he can’t step over the line this way. He is a law-abiding man who loves his family——he needs to avoid making trouble so his family can heal slowly.

One day I hope he’ll thank Judge Hippler for his rulings that forced Bryan and AT to give up. It was the defense, not the prosecution, who wanted a plea deal.

All moo

 

[wildblue]

It’s not what our justice system is based on. BK will never be punished enough for his heinous actions, but he plainly stated he premeditated the murders and accepts responsibility…as cold as he was. It matters that the prosecution has ensured he can never, ever hurt anyone again. In our society, it’s the just outcome. JMHO

Well, he could kill someone else behind the prison walls, a fellow inmate or a corrections officer.

 

[wildblue]

Freedom of opinions here, of course, but to me it seems as if these two sentences actually contradict each other.

They will have no rest, as you state, until the “murderer ceases to breathe.” Next you state (and I agree), that you don’t believe “there is ever any cessation to the grief.”

Therefore, Steve could watch Bryan be killed, four times if that were possible, but it would not end his grief over losing Kaylee.

Also, it’s impossible to both kill and not kill Bryan. The wishes of the two families that wanted this plea deal are no less important, just because they carry their grief differently.

I’m a mother and a grandmother, and I don’t know how I’d ever find peace if this happened in my family.

The trouble IMO is not that Steve is loud, he should be loud if that’s what he needs, but that he is implicitly suggesting violence with this talk about Idaho vs. a Pennsylvania “city boy.” Which, by the way, Bryan lived a rural life. Steve is just talking in code.

I have earlier posts in these threads asking for grace for Steve, but he can’t step over the line this way. He is a law-abiding man who loves his family——he needs to avoid making trouble so his family can heal slowly.

One day I hope he’ll thank Judge Hippler for his rulings that forced Bryan and AT to give up. It was the defense, not the prosecution, who wanted a plea deal.

All moo

I believe that once the murderer is dead, the families can rest as to one aspect, i.e., that the person responsible for their devastation can no longer enjoy watching tv, exercising, even if it is just for a short time, eating, even if it is just commissary snacks, etc. Their grief for their children will never fade.

As long as SG isn’t paying someone to kill the murderer, yes, i believe we should give him the grace to release his anger and express his hopes for that person’s demise anytime he feels inclined. IMO

 

[Bekind89]

Well, he could kill someone else behind the prison walls, a fellow inmate or a corrections officer.

I doubt it. He is a coward who kills sleeping collage kids in their beds.
He would never fight or attempt to kill another man, imo.
Despicable coward.