GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #114

[SteveP]

The number of cases where juries visit the actual crime scenes is vanishingly small. In reality, most crime scenes are released within hours, days at most, and are sanitised of the evidence of crime, either by cleaning and remodeling or by the extreme of demolition. In this case, the demolition was agreed upon after all items of evidentiary value were documented and recovered from the home. The house itself was toxic with biological materials from the homicides and chemicals from the crime scene processing. Jury members would have had to wear protective gear to enter, and the house itself was very changed from the night of the crime.

The only crime I can recall a jury actually visiting the scene in recent years was Murdaugh, which was an outdoor scene.

MOO

I agree completely. Had the house not been demolished by trial time, there is still no guarantee that Judge Hippler would have approved a jury of 16 to travel from Boise to Moscow, approx 300 miles, for what would very likely have been an overnight trip, to view a house that, even standing, would have been significantly different than it was the morning of the murders. Portions of walls and flooring had been removed as part of the forensic examination, which may have made it unsafe to traipse through important areas. The furniture and curtains had all been removed, and the windows had all been boarded up, all of which would have considerably affected accoustics.

For the sake of the surviving family members, who stayed in Moscow, the immediate neighbors, and the entire community, I believe the demolition of the house was the best choice to make. It could only serve as a constant reminder of the horrible morning, for everyone who had to look out a window and see it, or walk or drive by it, and it would have become a shrine for gawkers and Probergers to go visit and snap pix of for their morbid scrapbooks, if it had not already.

The model, though not precisely to scale, would have served the needs of the attorneys if this had gone to trial. Would AT have found issues with it to complain about? You betcha. If the actual house had been left standing for jurors to walk through, would AT have found issues with it, to complain about? You betcha. Besides, neither attorney objected to the demolition, and both teams had adequate time and access to the house to get whatever they needed for trial. JMO

 

[Kudzuu]

Also, it is not to scale because they didn't want measurements being taken.

Since the FBI made the model I'll assume it was made from the plans that have been posted before. The measurements of the rooms etc. are on there. But that doesn't mean it was built to those exact measurements.

IIRC, Kaylee's room was much larger than Maddie's. Basically just large enough for a bed and a table/desk.

Does anyone recall that the deck went all the way across the back of the house? I thought there was only a deck off of Kaylee's room.

MOO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

If I recall correctly, the 1st floor was originally a porch. It was enclosed. The third floor was added on.

And there was some weird construction to get the 4 bedrooms, baths, and closets to work. That's why the blood leaked out of Xana's room down the side of the house. They had to build it to fit around the existing structure.

I'd like to know the story behind the condemnation of the house and who owns the property now.

I believe the owners of the property sold or gifted it to the University who then decided to demolish it. There were mixed emotions from the families.

<snipped>

University President Scott Green said, "While we appreciate the emotional connection some family members of the victims may have to this house, it is time for its removal and to allow the collective healing of our community to continue."

Idaho college murders: House demolished despite some families' objections

 

[realanastasia]

Page 127 of the Patterson/Ward book may be what you remember:

On page 118 of his manifesto Elliot Rodger wrote that he planned to carry out his day of retribution scheme in November. At first he planned to do it on Halloween, because it was the ultimate party night.

''There would literally be thousands of people crowded together I could kill with ease....
But then I saw there were too many cops walking around. The Day of Retribution would have to be a normal party weekend, so I set it for some time in November 2013.''

Bless you, @FoxxTraxx —I had been second-guessing myself but appreciate confirmation that my memory of the Patterson book is generally accurate.

 

[otto]

Interesting, thanks

So ' It does not currently have value in criminology' but he chose it anyway ( or was recommended it)


speculation - At De Sales, he's already fixated on committing a future crime, doing this research would both give him useful, practical pointers, and avoiding mistakes as you have emphasized.

IMO he was getting thrills from it too. His research as p/orn or fantasy.

It just reminds me of the stuff hardened paedos often do when their online conversations are revealed by LE. They wallow in sharing detail of every stage, prelude through to abuse. They've wallowed in hearing how their peers identified victims, the grooming steps and tips & techniques.
( Although admittedly I don't recall ' how you felt ' being a big feature)

Script theory does not seem to have value in identifying or preventing crime, but it is useful for criminals planning a crime. I think that was Kohberger's interest in procedural framework: steps taken by successful serial killers to ensure they were not arrested. Script theory in criminology analyzes:

"procedural framework to identify the complete sequence of actions adopted prior to, during and following the commission of a particular crime"​

Sequence of actions ... we've seen Kohberger's crime scene analysis assignment. If nothing else, it is step by step linear sequential methodical: procedural framework to analyze a crime scene. I think he would approach committing a crime with the same level of rigid, precise sequential detail.

He and his car were prepared to prevent transfer of evidence. He knew the weak point for entering the house. He knew the layout of the house and exactly where to find Maddie. He knew the best time to confront her - knew her schedule.

I do not believe that his intent was to enter the house and stab four strangers - too chaotic for a detail oriented sequential thinker. I think he wanted to spend time with Maddie, but his methodical plan was interrupted by Kaylee. She received the full force of his anger for interrupting his plan. He was so flustered, he dropped the sheath. Xana interrupted him next. Leaving the sheath, he chased her. Then Ethan. Then he was so stunned at how everything went wrong so fast that he didn't react to Dylan. Instinct kicked in and he fled the scene - nearly hitting another vehicle.

He calmed down and relied on his procedural framework for next steps. He drove South - without Maddie - to dispose of all evidence, return home, check in with family (alibi of sorts), obtain new licence plate. A new plan formed after he realized the sheath was left at the house.

... just an opinion

 

[SteveP]

Also, it is not to scale because they didn't want measurements being taken.

Since the FBI made the model I'll assume it was made from the plans that have been posted before. The measurements of the rooms etc. are on there. But that doesn't mean it was built to those exact measurements.

IIRC, Kaylee's room was much larger than Maddie's. Basically just large enough for a bed and a table/desk.

Does anyone recall that the deck went all the way across the back of the house? I thought there was only a deck off of Kaylee's room.

MOO.

The deck did extend the length of the third floor, though it was bigger off of Kaylee's room, and it could only be accessed from her room. These photos provided by poster @cujenn81, photo gallery linked to first page of every thread.

 

[AngTxGal]

Does it mean the victims/the crime will be forgotten now
because the house is no longer there?

No chance of a brutal quadruple murder of four young people near a college campus at night in their own home is going to be forgotten. IMO
Crimes like this make everyone feel vulnerable as you can’t figure out how to 100% not be a victim at night in your own home.

I’m glad the school bought the house and tore it down.
To me it stood as a reminder of brutal murders sitting right close to the school.
And to draw weirdos breaking in just to see all the blood, take photos, take souvenirs.
And so unnerving for survivors and anyone wanting to rent or own rental property in the area.

Do you think it was valuable as evidence if there was a trial, or as a memorial?

I hope the school waits several years and builds some kind of park there, for students to hold small outdoor gatherings. To me that would be a good use of it- as a celebration of their lives.

IMO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Oh My!! I had no idea he had ID cards of females, and 10 of them!
To me that is huge in terms of state of mind!!
Surely all of the ten women whose IDs he had were contacted, no brainer there.

If that doesn’t put the C in Creep, I’m not sure what does.
So how did he get these IDs? Steal them from a person’s body, purse, backpack, car, apartment?
Makes my skin crawl!

IMO

Did I miss something? 10? I thought it was two?

Here is a screenshot of the search warrant return for the murderer’s family home in Pennsylvania:


#35 is “ID cards inside glove inside box” (not 10 cards inside glove inside box—there was much controversy about this back when the return was first published)

In yesterday’s Idaho Statesman’s livestream event, “Covering the University of Idaho Murders,” reporter Kevin Fixler said two ID cards were found:

Fixler said that none of the ID cards that were found in a glove in a box belonged to any of the victims. Instead, one of the cards belonged to a female security guard the murderer worked with at Pleasant Valley School District back in PA, and the other belonged to another woman whose identity was not revealed. Both women were surprised that the murderer had their ID cards.

 

[Dotta]

Do you think it was valuable as evidence if there was a trial, or as a memorial?

I hope the school waits several years and builds some kind of park there, for students to hold small outdoor gatherings. To me that would be a good use of it- as a celebration of their lives.

IMO

I thought my message was clear.

Of course, as evidence for the TRIAL.

What "memorial" in shape of this monstrous house does OP mean???

It should never have been demolished BEFORE trial IMO.

AFTER the trial - I don't care what would have happened to it.

JMO

 

[otto]

My issue isn't really with the accuracy or scale of the model, but as a juror, I would absolutely want a demonstration of the acoustics of the crime scene. This model, no matter how accurately it depicts the layout of the house, does nothing to help clarify what could and could not be heard from certain locations inside the house. I can guarantee you that Ann Taylor would have exploited that fact at trial.

Dylan and Xana both heard something upstairs. They knew that Maddie and Kaylee were sleeping in Maddie's bedroom.

We know that Xana had ordered food, and that she put the packaging in the kitchen. We know that Xana was not in the kitchen when Kohberger arrived.

When Kohberger was in Maddie's bedroom, Dylan (room below) and Xana (possibly in kitchen) heard something. Dylan woke up and peeked out her door. Xana called out and may have started up the stairs. Layout illustrates how noise would have travelled in that part of the house.

 

[Chloegirl]

I thought my message was clear.

Of course, as evidence for the TRIAL.

What "memorial" in shape of this monstrous house does OP mean???

It should never have been demolished BEFORE trial IMO.

AFTER the trial - I don't care what would have happened to it.

JMO

There is already a memorial on campus. The house was donated not sold which includes the property. And, new buildings are going up all over there. I expect it to be an apartment building within a year. JMOO

Weirdly enrollment has increased.

 

[otto]

Agreed, models are very nice-- in their place.

Unfortunately, though, the actual house would probably have been preferable. Not just for acoustics, necessarily, although that's clearly an area where the actualities won't carry over to a model. It's far preferable to have the actual house in many respects. If at some point this case had gone to trial and some juror had a question related to some particularity in the home, they could not have brought that juror TO the home since the home is gone. They could have shown this miniscule model or they could show 3D images or whatever they've retained. But it's not the real thing, is it?

This is one of the points I agree with SG on. I don't know why they tore this house down before trial, and I really do wonder if a plea bargain wasn't in the works for many months before we came to be aware of it. Monsterberger did sit there silently at his arraignment when they asked him for guilty or not guilty, that is so very long ago now.

Maybe he knew better than we did. I have no idea. But it looks to me like many parties may have known this would never reach trial, jmo.

The problem with using the empty house to test acoustics is that empty houses have echo that is not present when filled with furniture.

 

[arielilane]

As part of his #Idaho4 plea deal, #BryanKohberger waived the ability to appeal his 4 consecutive life sentences. But narrow legal avenues still exist for him to appeal, though come at the risk of restoring a possible #deathpenalty.
@NMBlanchard reports.

11:08 AM · Jul 30, 2025

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article311506184.html

 

[otto]

If I recall correctly, the 1st floor was originally a porch. It was enclosed. The third floor was added on.

And there was some weird construction to get the 4 bedrooms, baths, and closets to work. That's why the blood leaked out of Xana's room down the side of the house. They had to build it to fit around the existing structure.

I'd like to know the story behind the condemnation of the house and who owns the property now.

According to the Prime documentary, it was donated by the owner to the University, and the University demolished it with the blessing of the victims' families.

 

[Dotta]

According to the Prime documentary, it was donated by the owner to the University, and the University demolished it with the blessing of the victims' families.

Not all families.

 

[FoxxTraxx]

Wait, I'm confused...

Does it matter at all what was written on pg 118 of the original manuscript?

I thought the point was that BK had underlined pg 118 of the book or manuscript, or whatever it was, that he was reading. That is important because he underlined something that he thought was important.

It doesn't matter at all what page number it would be in the original manuscript or another edition etc---IT ONLY MATTERS WHAT IS ON PG 118 OF THE BOOK IN HIS POSSESSION.

So we need to find out exactly what book or manuscript he had underlined, or find the original case notes which discussed the underlined pages.

IMO

This paragraph could have possibly caught BK's attention:

Author was discussing vulnerabilities of T. Bundy's victims
Page 118 Ann Rule's Ted Bundy book The Stranger Beside Me. [First Edition]

Had the man who approached these young women divined somehow that he had come upon his victims at a time when they were particularly vulnerable, where they were not thinking as clearly as they usually did? It would almost seem so. The stalking, predatory animal cuts the weakest from the pack and then kills at his leisure.

 

[otto]

Also, it is not to scale because they didn't want measurements being taken.

Since the FBI made the model I'll assume it was made from the plans that have been posted before. The measurements of the rooms etc. are on there. But that doesn't mean it was built to those exact measurements.

IIRC, Kaylee's room was much larger than Maddie's. Basically just large enough for a bed and a table/desk.

Does anyone recall that the deck went all the way across the back of the house? I thought there was only a deck off of Kaylee's room.

MOO.

This is the back of the house.

top floor:

• Kaylee former bedroom on left,
• Balcony access from Kaylee's bedroom,
• window for stairwell in middle,
• Maddie bedroom on right,
• No stair access to balcony.

lower floor:

• kitchen on left,
• centre window in kitchen,
• Dylan bedroom on right.

 

[AngTxGal]

I thought my message was clear.

Of course, as evidence for the TRIAL.

What "memorial" in shape of this monstrous house does OP mean???

It should never have been demolished BEFORE trial IMO.

AFTER the trial - I don't care what would have happened to it.

JMO

My apologies, I didn’t go back and read the prior messages of the thread.
I saw your short message asking if the victims/crime would be forgotten now because the house was torn down.
Do you think people will forget the victims and crime because the house isn’t standing?

While I think there is always benefits for the jury to see the crime scene, I do not think it would be required for a guilty verdict with all the other evidence. It was a risk I suppose.
If the state wanted to prevent it- they could have bought it. Instead the school did.
Edit- evidently the house was donated to the school by its owner.

I do know they did a full 3D scan of every room of that house. I’m guessing they have a walkthrough of the crime scene digitized that shows where bodies, evidence, and blood were. I’ve not seen it, but remember it being discussed and know it is possible.

IMO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

No chance of a quadruple murder of four young people near a college campus at night in their own home is going to be forgotten. IMO
Crimes like this make everyone feel vulnerable as you can’t figure out how to 100% not be a victim at night in your own home.

I’m glad the school bought the house and tore it down.
To me it stood as a reminder of brutal murders sitting right close to the school.
And to draw weirdos breaking in just to see all the blood, take photos, take souvenirs.
And so unnerving for survivors and anyone wanting to rent or own rental property in the area.

Do you think it was valuable as evidence if there was a trial, or as a memorial?

I hope the school waits several years and builds some kind of park there, for students to hold small outdoor gatherings. To me that would be a good use of it- as a celebration of their lives.

IMO

Ethan Chapin’s triplet brother, Hunter, was interviewed in the Amazon Prime docuseries, One Night in Idaho: The College Murders. Seeing the pain in his eyes when he discussed looking out of his Sigma Chi window each morning to see the boarded-up, fenced-in house where his brother was brutally murdered erased any doubt I had about leaving that house standing.

And Hunter wasn’t the only University of Idaho student who was traumatized. That house stood out for all to see:


Source

I wish they would create a lovely, lush, peaceful garden in the house’s place instead of leaving the plot of land barren. It should be a source of comfort and beauty—an additional reminder of the four lost students who brought so much love and happiness to their family and friends.

IMO

Edited to honor the extant on-campus memorial, the Vandal Healing Garden and Memorial, designed by students.

 

[Dotta]

My apologies, I didn’t go back and read the prior messages of the thread.
I saw your short message asking if the victims/crime would be forgotten now because the house was torn down.
Do you think people will forget the victims and crime because the house isn’t standing?

While I think there is always benefits for the jury to see the crime scene, I do not think it would be required for a guilty verdict with all the other evidence. It was a risk I suppose.
If the state wanted to prevent it- they could have bought it. Instead the school did.

I do know they did a full 3D scan of every room of that house. I’m guessing they have a walkthrough of the crime scene digitized that shows where bodies, evidence, and blood were. I’ve not seen it, but remember it being discussed and know it is possible.

IMO

Quotation from my post was the answer
to another poster

who wrote that demolishing the house would help the students/ not bother students any more.

So .....

I asked if demolishing the house would mean the crime will be forgotten.

It was a RHETORICAL question.

I thought it is clear.
Does anybody really think these victims will ever be forgotten???

And how demolishing the house BEFORE the trial really helped students???

JMO