GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #114

[INfisherman]

Yes, this makes much more sense to me than killer carrying two weapons. He had been a boxer (so he said), so he knew how to “effectively punch,” as you put it.

Bryan Kohberger once bragged about cutting fish, boxing routine on job application

Bryan Kohberger, the accused killer of four Idaho college kids, reportedly once bragged about his boxing routine and previous work as a “fish cutter” on a 2015 application for a job.

nypost.com

I tend to believe this could be the case. This day & age it’s not difficult to find information on things like how to punch, etc.. Much different than when I grew up, when there wasn’t an internet. Books, videos or in-person training was it. YouTube likely wasn’t even a thought yet.

To expand a bit more without being overly graphic, there is a correct way to throw a traditional closed fisted punch, which is typically taught to both students of boxing & self defense, and all other ways to punch which are most likely incorrect or potentially harmful to the aggressor. The correct way typically utilizes the first 2 knuckles only, which reduces the chances of injury to the hand of the person throwing the punch. Adding a solid object to the closed fist (held like a bicycle handlebar grip or knife handle, for example) makes it such that the fist won’t collapse or compress as much, which in turn may increase the damage of a punch when it lands. Other factors are to be considered &/or employed but no need for me to go into those details unless to satisfy curiosity, as they likely have little to do with the unfortunate events which most likely occurred.

MOO

 

[INfisherman]

Talk about failure to launch.

Gets his own cellphone number at 28, and first time living on his own, he springs right into stalking 1122 King Road (I see no other way to interpret 23+ loops).

He didn't snap. He did what he probably always wanted to, now that no one was watching.

Why would LE want his phone number during a traffic stop?

No, wrong question, Felon.

Why don't YOU want to give it to the police?

Secretive.

Up to no good.

I wonder where he kept his kill kit. In his apartment? Under his seat? In the trunk?

He sure does love the small talk.

JMO

BBM

Of course he does, he wanted to be one of them & is/was likely delusional enough to feel (at the time) he had a shot at it. LE should probably take more care in divulging "tactics" when asked - those "honest" ones usually have ulterior motives behind their questions, hindsight being 20/20 & all.

I bet he’d ask awkward questions if he saw LE at a convenience store in passing. His interests were just that obsessive/weird & later sinister. He has probably even played dress up/cosplay at home when no one was around, dressing up as a police officer just for satiating his control fetish - especially back when he was a security guard (if IIRC).

Once he got out of the nest in mid to late adulthood, the dress up playtime turned into a confused cross dressing cop/ninja/stalker, if not before in PA. He stopped flashing a badge in the mirror & started flashing the knife. He was a lonesome loser long before moving to Pullman.

JMO

ETA - Why 2 water bottles in the cup holders so late at night, felon? Been sitting around for long periods of time on a stakeout, creeper?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Dylan and Xana both heard something upstairs. They knew that Maddie and Kaylee were sleeping in Maddie's bedroom.

We know that Xana had ordered food, and that she put the packaging in the kitchen. We know that Xana was not in the kitchen when Kohberger arrived.

When Kohberger was in Maddie's bedroom, Dylan (room below) and Xana (possibly in kitchen) heard something. Dylan woke up and peeked out her door. Xana called out and may have started up the stairs. Layout illustrates how noise would have travelled in that part of the house.

View attachment 604964

I know the facts of this case, Otto. I know what B, D and the neighbors have said they heard. My point is that, at trial , Taylor would have had to rigorously challenge what the 2 surviving room mates THINK they heard. Maybe both sides did acoustic testing ( I assume they did) but that isn't the same as a juror being able to see for themselves what could and could not be heard at the crime scene. That's just my opinion.

 

[Dotta]

Very grateful for the insertion by @SteveP of this particular view of the house.

I understand why that house is gone, honestly. It's of great value to many that it is gone in the healing process, so this makes a lot of sense to me. Also, appreciative of those noting the lack of value for acoustics because an empty house-- it's a whole different experience in terms of sound, and this makes sense, too.

What irks me about the demolition of that house is that it seemed premature. While I get that there's no guarantee the actual structure would ever be needed for any reason, there's also no guarantee some need might not have presented itself somewhere along the line. While it's rare that jurors would need to visit on site at an actual location, looking at the view of that house in the image @SteveP posted -- that model isn't going to capture that, the overlook that the murderer used as a vantage point from which to attack. (This photo posted, though, does come very close to capturing it.) And early on, P seemed to be taking the chance with demolition, okay, we're not going to preserve the house. (The D's obviously not going to object since it's in the D's interest to have that house gone in the event it is needed for any reason down the line because any "my bad" moments in the process as a whole are a windfall for the D.) And in light of the fact that this process ultimately resulted in a plea, it truly does make me wonder if the murderer's plea deal wasn't being considered much, much earlier than we know, and the demolition of the house was not taking any chance at all. Bottom line is, I just think they should have preserved the house in case something triggered a need for it in the course of the trial. The model is phenomenal in conjunction with the actual structure., but having the model alone-- I'm sorry, it looks like a dollhouse. P could probably have made it work during trial, but (again jmo) only in conjunction with photographs. This isn't some diss on models. It's dissatisfaction (jmo) on the use of just the model within the larger context of this trial and its preparations.

Yep.
It is like changing the REAL thing for inadequate COPY.

The house was a silent WITNESS to the murders,
who knows what evidence it still guarded?

I guess it was seen by authorities
as adding to the infamy of the place scaring future students.

JMO

Sorry to obsess about this particular issue.
It really disturbed me.

If I was a Juror
I would be the first one to ask for the chance of viewing the house and surrounding area
- the whole crime scene.

But it all is history now.
The case is closed at last.

 

[meatandcookies]

Yes, this makes much more sense to me than killer carrying two weapons. He had been a boxer (so he said), so he knew how to “effectively punch,” as you put it.

Bryan Kohberger once bragged about cutting fish, boxing routine on job application

Bryan Kohberger, the accused killer of four Idaho college kids, reportedly once bragged about his boxing routine and previous work as a “fish cutter” on a 2015 application for a job.

nypost.com

At the risk of being gross and/or graphic —I can’t stop thinking about what was done to Ethan’s calves when I read about the murderer’s limited time working at the fish shop and the butcher. I have a pretty strong stomach for this kind of thing, but this truly nauseates me.

To be clear, I cannot understand, as a normal empathetic human, anything about this crime, or what would motivate the murderer….but this is something I’ve thought of a lot…Xana and Kaylee suffered enormous amounts of violence because they fought back. But there’s no evidence Ethan did, and there’s no reason for his calves to be cut if he was facing up as he was found (per supplement 51) unless it was a gratuitous act by the murderer.

I just…I guess I'm just not surprised that the murderer tried his hand at jobs that involved things like this.

I feel this sadness for the victims with my whole body, still.

 

[INfisherman]

Yes, IMO he definitely attempted to control every interaction he had with the police.

Is this one of four traffic stops? I count this one, the crosswalk one with the female officer, and the two tailgating ones as he drove home to Pennsylvania with his dad.

These traffic stops absolutely astound me. Try chatting up a NYC cop for this long and you will get shut up very quickly. They don’t have the time here for you to try to talk in circles, and they’re not going to get trapped into you leading the conversation.

Most tickets here nowadays in NYC are issued through red light and speed cameras anyway, giving police more time to keep the peace in a very busy city.

I view his small talk chitchat in the interview differently, though. He certainly aimed at dominating the conversation, but I imagine in that circumstance it likely was better for LE to let him gab away, in case he would slip up and reveal something.

I forget now, who was it that he asked if maybe they’d have coffee together? Was that with the cops at his home in Pennsylvania? That strikes me as BK attempting to put himself on the same level as them—-like they are buddies hanging out. He wanted to change the equation—-he’s the cat, not the mouse.

Thankfully he is now and forever where he belongs, in the mousetrap and behind bars.

JMO

Definitely not worth debating but I see it a bit differently, as he didn’t roll down his window & immediately start talking or questioning the reason for being pulled over. I’d be a little shocked for getting pulled over for speeding if not more than 10 MPH over the posted speed limit where I live which is a bit removed from being a literal suburb of Indy (closest I have to NYC). Likely trying to be calm & cool as to not give reason for a vehicle search to take place, as he likely had items which would come off as suspicious if found (dark clothing, backpack or duffle with binoculars, etc.).

I feel he was genuinely concerned about getting a ticket & why he likely lied about going 41 but the officer was quick to say 43. The stop was most likely done in hopes of snaring a drunk driver & the officer became more relaxed & friendly once he realized the driver wasn’t obviously intoxicated or confrontational. Our boy was trying to stay hidden like a good citizen because we know what he was likely out doing.

The officer told him he wasn’t getting a ticket before he returned to his vehicle to do the typical background checks, run plates, check for warrants. Once the officer came back, weirdo was much more relaxed & asked if the speeding would be reported to his insurance company (not points on license, that’s the government - B/DMV) then tried talking shop while pumping the officer for a bit of information.

Officer needs to be friendly in a smaller town/city because any possible complaints for rudeness are likely taken more seriously as small towns are trying to attract visitors away from the larger cities.

Nope, I’m not excusing anything the dummy does, I just feel with males, he’s not trying as hard to take control - he’s attempting to blend in more & trying maintain his sneakiness by asking questions for cover but also getting information he can use to his advantage going forward.

JMO

 

[waitin'4thewrld2chg]

Random thought. Hunter J. sure was brave.

I am pretty certain that if I were in his position I would have gone running out of that house as fast as I could at the first sight of a prone person. Hunter had the presence of mind to not only stick around but to grab a knife in the kitchen, as I understand it, and then apparently check closets.

How scary would it be to check closets? The bad guy could be in there. Boo. For all Hunter knew, the knife from the kitchen could have had to face off with a gun. Hunter was probably acting on adrenaline in making his choices about what to do in those moments, but he was also acting on the strength of his character.

And then Hunter was kind. The word he used with the kids was "unconscious". He knew the truth. He could have easily said "dead". He was probably struggling with the finality of what he had seen himself, but his choice of words allowed the kids to ease their way into an unthinkable reality with an extra bit of processing time. And, as has been mentioned here before, in sparing others the sight he had witnessed, Hunter J. preserved the crime scene.

Hunter's parents can be very proud of the son they raised, and Hunter can be very proud of himself.....that he was able to show up at such a tender age and be a champ. I hope he is receiving the help that anyone who experienced that trauma would need and that the rest of his life will be lived in peace.

 

[iamshadow21]

Random thought. Hunter J. sure was brave.

I am pretty certain that if I were in his position I would have gone running out of that house as fast as I could at the first sight of a prone person. Hunter had the presence of mind to not only stick around but to grab a knife in the kitchen, as I understand it, and then apparently check closets.

How scary would it be to check closets? The bad guy could be in there. Boo. For all Hunter knew, the knife from the kitchen could have had to face off with a gun. Hunter was probably acting on adrenaline in making his choices about what to do in those moments, but he was also acting on the strength of his character.

And then Hunter was kind. The word he used with the kids was "unconscious". He knew the truth. He could have easily said "dead". He was probably struggling with the finality of what he had seen himself, but his choice of words allowed the kids to ease their way into an unthinkable reality with an extra bit of processing time. And, as has been mentioned here before, in sparing others the sight he had witnessed, Hunter J. preserved the crime scene.

Hunter's parents can be very proud of the son they raised, and Hunter can be very proud of himself.....that he was able to show up at such a tender age and be a champ. I hope he is receiving the help that anyone who experienced that trauma would need and that the rest of his life will be lived in peace.

None of us know how we will respond to an extreme situation. I've responded with calm efficiency, freezing, dissociation, and hysteria at different times in my life. The only consistency was the come down - shaking, anxiety, perseveration on what had happened, what I had done. Flashbacks. Nightmares.

Hunter responded with calm efficiency, but his trauma will be just as marked as everyone else in that immediate group. Possibly more so than many, because of his compartmentalisation of his immediate reactions to shield the others, and his choice to enter the crime scene, view the bodies closely and check them for vital signs. Nobody else but first responders came so close to the victims, and we know from things said to the press that seasoned LE and forensics folks found it an incredibly confronting scene to work because of the nature of the injuries and the violence. Hunter was essentially a kid, and the victims weren't strangers but his friends. That would mark anyone deeply.

MOO

 

[Dotta]

At the risk of being gross and/or graphic —I can’t stop thinking about what was done to Ethan’s calves when I read about the murderer’s limited time working at the fish shop and the butcher. I have a pretty strong stomach for this kind of thing, but this truly nauseates me.

To be clear, I cannot understand, as a normal empathetic human, anything about this crime, or what would motivate the murderer….but this is something I’ve thought of a lot…Xana and Kaylee suffered enormous amounts of violence because they fought back. But there’s no evidence Ethan did, and there’s no reason for his calves to be cut if he was facing up as he was found (per supplement 51) unless it was a gratuitous act by the murderer.

I just…I guess I'm just not surprised that the murderer tried his hand at jobs that involved things like this.

I feel this sadness for the victims with my whole body, still.

Re Ethan's legs injuries

IMO
It shows how depraved, insane and envious the murderer is.
Ethan was everything the murderer isn't
and could never be.

Even murdering the boy wasn't enough for this vile creature
he couldn't help himself to desecrate the body.

And now he smirks secretly
and says
"I RESPECTFULLY decline ..."

What does this "being" understand about RESPECT???

He has no idea about:
Respect for others,
Respect for human life.

JMO

 

[Warwick7]

Yeah, I think the 'two weapon' theory is officially debunked.

Given the blitz nature of the attack, he was moving fast, using one weapon both to stab and to bludgeon. Probably using the other hand to support himself or to hold the victim down. There's no room in there for another weapon. Both in the scenario and in the physical space. We've been discussing how Maddie's room was basically a glorified broom cupboard. No room to swing a bat. But enough to use the pommel and handle of the knife you're using to stab to club and stun a victim who's actively fighting back.

MOO

I am leaning towards that too.
But, I'm cautious. Seems like we finally figure something out then new info is released and it changes.

 

[Dotta]

I am leaning towards that too.
But, I'm cautious. Seems like we finally figure something out then new info is released and it changes.

I don't think anything is
OFFICIALLY DEBUNKED.

How can it be?
With so many questions still.

Especially in this case
where even a murder weapon has not been found.

JMO

 

[Lilibet]

Re Ethan's legs injuries

IMO
It shows how depraved, insane and envious the murderer is.
Ethan was everything the murderer isn't
and could never be.

Just in a few photos I’ve seen of Ethan, he had nice-looking solid legs. I have no idea whether the killer’s legs were scrawny or shaped funny or normal. But based on an experience I had when I had first started dating my husband, I can imagine envy was possible. I was a sophomore at the university, riding the train back to school after Thanksgiving. I happened to be sitting next to a guy who was on the same dorm floor as my new bf. Very nice guy. They played intramural sports together, and in that context he commented to me that my bf had really good legs. He also said he had good hands. It kind of took me aback, but it wasn’t creepy. I just thought maybe he was teasing me in some subtle way. As it happens, my dh did and still does have very nice-looking legs to this day at age 80. His hands are OK too. But I got a little whiff of envy from his dorm mate. So I guess guys notice these things and maybe compare themselves. Envy taken to an extreme by someone like the killer could lead to carving/desecrating Ethan’s calves. It doesn’t seem farfetched IMO.

 

[Chloegirl]

BK mimicked behaviors that he either saw as acceptable or repulsive. He is not that original and he behaved in scenarios as expected, like role-playing.

When being pulled over, in the classroom, at home with family possibly, talking to others, while perpetrating murders etc. do X. This may not be ASD. Psychopathy mixed with schizoaffective disorder might be the bigger diagnosis. His brain just does not work and and he behaves as either he should or should not, sometimes pulling it off other times not so much.

His judgment is lacking, his social awkwardness is there when you are paying attention and I get a strange mix of Adam Lanza, Elliot Roger and Ted Bundy. Mostly because he is vacant.

He does not have an original offering and he focuses on specifics to offer that are either appropriate or inappropriate. If he were reading this, objectively, he would be very disappointed. It is all inauthentic. JMOO

 

[PinkButtercup]

Just in a few photos I’ve seen of Ethan, he had nice-looking solid legs. I have no idea whether the killer’s legs were scrawny or shaped funny or normal. But based on an experience I had when I had first started dating my husband, I can imagine envy was possible. I was a sophomore at the university, riding the train back to school after Thanksgiving. I happened to be sitting next to a guy who was on the same dorm floor as my new bf. Very nice guy. They played intramural sports together, and in that context he commented to me that my bf had really good legs. He also said he had good hands. It kind of took me aback, but it wasn’t creepy. I just thought maybe he was teasing me in some subtle way. As it happens, my dh did and still does have very nice-looking legs to this day at age 80. His hands are OK too. But I got a little whiff of envy from his dorm mate. So I guess guys notice these things and maybe compare themselves. Envy taken to an extreme by someone like the killer could lead to carving/desecrating Ethan’s calves. It doesn’t seem farfetched IMO.

Just a theory
I think that during the struggle with Xana, Ethan may have begun to stir in the bed. The murderer could've slashed at Ethan's legs in order to instantly incapacitate him, before rendering the fatal wounds.

MOO

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1950914248739008783

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1950879573421240605

 

[Kudzuu]

The murderer glanced at AT when he added RESPECTFULLY to her announcement he declined to correct her and to declare his respect for the male in power in the room.

 

[cottonweaver]

I didn't hear it during the traffic stop but according to one of his Defense attys he told that traffic cop that 'anyway seatbelts don't provide much in the way of safety'

He just can't stop lecturing people! Lecturing a traffic cop on safety, smh. ( Also afaik that is wrong)
Norman-Know-it-all-Know-Nothing?

source , 8 mins here

 

[cottonweaver]

Just in a few photos I’ve seen of Ethan, he had nice-looking solid legs. I have no idea whether the killer’s legs were scrawny or shaped funny or normal. But based on an experience I had when I had first started dating my husband, I can imagine envy was possible. I was a sophomore at the university, riding the train back to school after Thanksgiving. I happened to be sitting next to a guy who was on the same dorm floor as my new bf. Very nice guy. They played intramural sports together, and in that context he commented to me that my bf had really good legs. He also said he had good hands. It kind of took me aback, but it wasn’t creepy. I just thought maybe he was teasing me in some subtle way. As it happens, my dh did and still does have very nice-looking legs to this day at age 80. His hands are OK too. But I got a little whiff of envy from his dorm mate. So I guess guys notice these things and maybe compare themselves. Envy taken to an extreme by someone like the killer could lead to carving/desecrating Ethan’s calves. It doesn’t seem farfetched IMO.

Funny you should mention that because when he was being sentenced I noticed his arms again and then recalled his student peers saying he'd always worn long sleeves, even in the heat of summer.

Very scrawny arms, for a man. I also thought he might be self conscious about that and it possibly wasn't related to injection tracks as pre previous speculation.

 

[stormymama]

Apologies for being behind & potentially dredging up a specific point which may have already been put to bed. Some potentially graphic descriptions follow, so please skip if you’re overly sensitive.

Where I am currently reading, there is still discussion regarding a potential 2nd weapon due to the extent of non-knife injuries.

I speak on this from personal experience (training & being a younger person whose dad made sure his son didn’t take personal threats lightly as a kid) - an object held tightly in one’s hand who understands the concept of how to effectively punch is able to increase damage more so than some of us may think. I could very easily imagine the knife handle was the cause of the additional injuries, punches thrown while tightly gripping the knife &/or strikes made with the butt of the handle using "hammer fist blows". Either of these could break facial bones & knock out teeth. Kind of falls along the lines of holding a roll of coins while making a fist or employing a yawara type of weapon.

JMO & 100% speculative/thinking out loud.

ETA I seem to recall the intent of the design of the Ka-Bar pommel (butt) was something which could be used as a makeshift hammer. Not necessarily a permanent solution as a hammer but in times of necessity when a soldier might be stranded in the field during combat (a survival situation) or employed as an additional weapon (smashing into an opposing soldier’s helmet).

Memory unlocked. I used a roll of nickels in my first fight, back when I was a little "stormier" than I am now in my old age.

I think it was the butt of the K-bar that made the marks on KG. moo