GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #116

[PunishThenForgive]

I believe Dylan thought Kaylee was the one who went up and down the stairs because she heard Murphy outside her door (or above her room). Murphy is Kaylee’s dog, not Xana’s, after all.

Something that has been bothering me is this:

According to Bethany, Maddie and Bethany took Murphy outside the morning of the murders. Bethany stayed outside for a few seconds only, then Maddie later knocked on Bethany’s door to ask if she had Murphy. Bethany told Maddie that she didn’t have Murphy, then Bethany went to sleep.

I heard/read somewhere that Kaylee and Maddie texted Kaylee’s ex-boyfriend so many times because they couldn’t find Murphy. Is this true? If it is, maybe Maddie or Kaylee left the slider open so Murphy could come back inside on his own. Now this is something I haven’t seen or heard anywhere, but I fear it may be true if Maddie couldn’t find Murphy. It was 28 degrees out, so she couldn’t leave him out all night.

Not that it would make any difference, of course. The killer could have easily opened the slider, even if it was closed (and locked).

Now, we know police found Kaylee’s bedroom door open, with Murphy on Kaylee’s bed. (Murphy later moved under her desk after police closed Kaylee’s bedroom door so he couldn’t corrupt the crime scene).

If Maddie and Kaylee did eventually find Murphy before going to bed, wouldn’t they have crated him in Kaylee’s room, or at least put him in Kaylee’s room and close the door so he wouldn’t roam the house?

Of course, Maddie or Kaylee may have put Murphy in Kaylee’s room and closed the door, but then the murderer opened Kaylee’s door before he entered Maddie’s room (either because Kaylee was a target, or because he wanted to kill multiple people, like Bundy at the sorority house in Florida).

If this happened AND Dylan heard Murphy outside her door, this would mean that Murphy fled downstairs while Kaylee and Maddie were being murdered. Would a dog do this? Did Murphy encounter Xana on the second floor (or in the stairwell), then follow her back upstairs? Or did he refuse to go back upstairs out of fear, and then flee back outside again?

Of course, I guess Kaylee or Maddie could have found Murphy, put him in Kaylee’s room and left the door open. Perhaps the murderer never entered Kaylee’s open bedroom, and Murphy simply hid in Kaylee’s room during and after the murders. But then why did Dylan hear Murphy?

Anyway, this is driving me nuts. I sure wish Murphy could talk.

IMO

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1965180901752549516

 

[girlhasnoname]

I believe Dylan thought Kaylee was the one who went up and down the stairs because she heard Murphy outside her door (or above her room). Murphy is Kaylee’s dog, not Xana’s, after all.

Something that has been bothering me is this:

According to Bethany, Maddie and Bethany took Murphy outside the morning of the murders. Bethany stayed outside for a few seconds only, and Maddie later knocked on Bethany’s door to ask if she had Murphy. Bethany told Maddie that she didn’t have Murphy, then Bethany went to sleep.

I heard/read somewhere that Kaylee and Maddie texted Kaylee’s ex-boyfriend so many times because they couldn’t find Murphy. Is this true? If it is, maybe Maddie or Kaylee left the slider open so Murphy could come back inside on his own. Now this is something I haven’t seen or heard anywhere, but I fear it may be true if Maddie couldn’t find Murphy. It was 28 degrees out, so she couldn’t leave him out all night.

Not that it would make any difference, of course. The killer could have easily opened the slider, even if it was closed (and even locked).

If Maddie and Kaylee did eventually find Murphy before going to bed, wouldn’t they have crated him in Kaylee’s room, or at least put him in Kaylee’s room and close the door so he wouldn’t roam the house?

Of course, Maddie or Kaylee may have put Murphy in Kaylee’s room and closed the door, but then the murderer opened Kaylee’s door before he entered Maddie’s room (either because Kaylee was a target, or because he wanted to kill multiple people, like Bundy at the sorority house in Florida).

If this happened AND Dylan heard Murphy outside her door, this would mean that Murphy fled downstairs while Kaylee and Maddie were being murdered. Would a dog do this? Did Murphy encounter Xana on the second floor (or in the stairwell), then follow her back upstairs? Or did he refuse to go back upstairs out of fear, and then flee back outside again?

Of course, I guess Kaylee or Maddie could have found Murphy, put him in Kaylee’s room and left the door open. Perhaps the murderer never entered Kaylee’s open bedroom, and Murphy simply hid in Kaylee’s room during and after the murders. But then why did Dylan hear Murphy?

Anyway, this is driving me nuts. I sure wish Murphy could talk.

IMO

A good thought provoking post. Now I'm going to have it on my mind too, so we'll be nuts together.

I am still undecided about the who or if there was one target. I've followed the case from day 1, read all the released docs, seen the specials and I just don't think the murderer was focused on one girl only. I think it was the house full of 'Staceys', the types he could never attain, that drove him to commit this brutal act. Rejection by the popular, beautiful, fun girls or maybe even trying to pull off a copycat scenario of one of his SK idols. IDK

The murderer went in that house on that night with determination and purpose, his 3 passes and then parking tells us that. Even if it was Kaylee or Maddie he could have easily ran PAST Xana and out the slider door without killing. He was disguised, she wouldn't have been able to identify him. He was enjoying his sick, planned out game and was there to inflict as much up close and personal damage as possible.

JMO

 

[mickey2942]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1965180901752549516

Xana's mother has definitely had her share of grief. I hope she is able to move forward with her life, and hold onto to her new religious fervor.

If she wants to "forgive" BK, let's hope that gives her grace.

 

[mpnola]

However you describe it, the fact is there was plenty of DNA to do everything that was necessary to build an excellent DNA profile.

I wasn't able to get to CrimeCon this year. Is there anything you can share with us here that we might have missed with this case? Of course, other than the amazing information you just shared about there being excellent DNA on the snap.

One question I have is did it seem like he had cleaned the sheath and missed that spot? Or that there was DNA in all the normal spots you would expect on the sheath. To me, it could say some about intentionally dropping it versus leaving it on purpose

 

[Ghostwheel]

Ann Taylor herself referred to the DNA quantity as "precious little" in an open court hearing during the great DNA Debate.
One needs to understand that the greater population doesn't look too much into the actual science of the beast. They don't think of "trace" as the actual TYPE of DNA or how it's deposited. A good deal of people see "trace" as the actual meaning of the word.
More like: Trace

What is another word for trace? | Trace Synonyms - WordHippo Thesaurus

Synonyms for trace include touch, hint, bit, shadow, suggestion, suspicion, drop, speck, spot and trifle. Find more similar words at wordhippo.com!

www.wordhippo.com

Noun
▲
A barely discernible indication of something

There's no slicing or dicing of what most of the population thought by "trace". To put it in AT's words "precious little".

• Influencing public perception. Legal analysts have suggested that Taylor's arguments, while rooted in technical legal challenges, also serve to plant seeds of doubt in the public's mind. The phrasing "precious little DNA" may be an example of "craftily worded" statements designed to influence public perception of the case.

Context for the phrase "precious little DNA"
While many sources report on Taylor's broader arguments about the limited and potentially transferred nature of the DNA, the exact phrase "precious little" is most prominently discussed in online forums and analyses of her defense strategy. Legal experts suggest this phrasing is intended to cast doubt on the prosecution's central piece of evidence.

I thank you for the response, but it doesn't answer my question. Ann Taylor said a lot of things. It didn't make any of them factual or something to be believed. We had a lot of people here saying "There has to be more DNA, it's impossible for there not to be.". I am (really) trying to figure out how partial information that is correct but leaves out the rest of the information is "wrong". I get it IF there were many news stories that said "There was only this one tiny bit of DNA from the killer in the ENTIRE house". That would be wrong. I know I am not the only person that understood that "trace" was not "a trace of". That it's a "type" not an "amount".

BTW, it was Logsdon who filed the words "precious little", not AT. And they were not referring to DNA the the house, but DNA in BK's car, apartment, office and the home he was found in.

“No matter what came first, the car or genetic genealogy, the investigation has provided precious little. There is no connection between Mr. Kohberger and the victims. There is no explanation for the total lack of DNA evidence from the victims in Kohberger’s apartment, office, home, or vehicle.”

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR29-22-2805/062323+Objection+to+States+Motion+for+Protective+Order.pdf

 

[Warwick7]

 

[Chloegirl]

This is sort of driving me crazy the sparkler/firework. Where in the world would BK have gotten his hands on some kind of device like this to use it to confuse/misdirect people in the house. I've seen a lot of different references calling it a dazzler (could possibly come in a case like DM saw him carrying).

Early on, there was talk about the theft at WSU. I cannot imagine that they have this for crowd control, but maybe they could?. This is the single most confusing thing (and there has been a lot). JMOO

Follow-up: $99?

Cerberus – High-Intensity Dazzler Flashlight, Handheld or Rail Mount, Military & Police Visual Disruption – Powerful Beam for Security & Emergencies – Made in USA

Cerberus – High-Intensity Dazzler Flashlight, Handheld or Rail Mount, Military & Police Visual Disruption – Powerful Beam for Security & Emergencies – Made in USA

www.mizbc.com

 

[LadyL]

A white Elantra, that's about it. And without the DD, a whole lot less footage and no footage of no front license plate.

[bbm]

what do you mean? did they have footage of his front license plate???

The DDD, who was in harm's way and never knew it, but without her, the missing front plate would never have been identified, not narrowing the field of Elantras.

[bbm]

I'm confused.

 

[wendy44]

I thank you for the response, but it doesn't answer my question. Ann Taylor said a lot of things. It didn't make any of them factual or something to be believed. We had a lot of people here saying "There has to be more DNA, it's impossible for there not to be.". I am (really) trying to figure out how partial information that is correct but leaves out the rest of the information is "wrong". I get it IF there were many news stories that said "There was only this one tiny bit of DNA from the killer in the ENTIRE house". That would be wrong. I know I am not the only person that understood that "trace" was not "a trace of". That it's a "type" not an "amount".

BTW, it was Logsdon who filed the words "precious little", not AT. And they were not referring to DNA the the house, but DNA in BK's car, apartment, office and the home he was found in.

“No matter what came first, the car or genetic genealogy, the investigation has provided precious little. There is no connection between Mr. Kohberger and the victims. There is no explanation for the total lack of DNA evidence from the victims in Kohberger’s apartment, office, home, or vehicle.”

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR29-22-2805/062323+Objection+to+States+Motion+for+Protective+Order.pdf

Howard Blum, for example, appears to have been wrong about the amount of DNA found. He wrote articles for Air Mail early on and then wrote his book. In it he says:

"The Idaho lab's challenge, however, was that the DNA on the knife sheath was "touch" male DNA left by a finger that had brushed against the metal snap. And it amounted to less than one hundred nanograms. A whole lot less. In total, the scientists would grumble, about twenty cells. Maybe even fewer. Getting the information they needed from a specimen that tiny was tough, but by November 20 they had processed a sufficient amount of DNA."

This was picked up everywhere and led to a ton of discussion here and it does seem to be wrong. (jepop had a great theory about this that made lot of sense at the time)

JMO

 

[TristanP]

So XA's health watch was used to pinpoint her where abouts and when she died.

Is that why Gilbertson said, "Xana certainly did go up the stairs." To say certainly they must have some type of forensic evidence. “Fortunately, that’s what stopped him up there and caused him to screw up and leave the knife sheath, was either hearing or seeing Xana. And then that took his attention away, and he followed her down the stairs to her bedroom." Gilbertson said.

How DNA, police work unraveled the Idaho student murders case | Idaho Statesman https://share.google/DUaKoTNNCSTZ491Ik

Did you see it in that article that XA's health watch data was used? I didn't see it in that article, and I thought it had been said that it was not correct info.

 

[waitin'4thewrld2chg]

[bbm]

what do you mean? did they have footage of his front license plate???



[bbm]

I'm confused.

As I understand it, PA doesn't require a front license plate on a regular passenger vehicle. Most of the vehicles in Moscow and Pullman would be from WA and ID and would therefore have front and back plates since both are required in those states. (And in twenty-seven other states, too, according to Mr. Google.)

In this case, the absence of something was a plus. With a gazillion white Elantras buzzing around of the approximate year range being sought, the lack of a front plate was a distinguishing (non)-feature. Scoring footage of a car with no front plate was a win and set it apart.

Either the plate was removed, or the car came from someplace distant. (Most one-plate states are far from Idaho, the nearest being Arizona.) It turned out to be the vehicle of an out-of-state student from PA who should have stayed in PA with Mother and Father.

 

[Megnut]

[bbm]

what do you mean? did they have footage of his front license plate???



[bbm]

I'm confused.

For a detailed explanation, see the superb post from @waitin'4thewrld2chg above.

In short, the footage revealed that the vehicle didn’t have a front plate. Which could narrow the search to Elantras from the few states which don't require them.

It was a key detail and also incriminate BK, one his identity was discovered and his vehicle lined up.

BK looped several times in the neighborhood but was captured only once driving in the opposite direction, likely trying to get a good look at the DD vehicle. Her presence inadvertently provided LE with a critical detail! Another view of the Elantra, one which showed there was no front plate.

Agreeing also with @waitin'4thewrld2chg -- BK should have remained in his parents' basement and never ever moved to Idaho.

JMO

 

[mpnola]

This is sort of driving me crazy the sparkler/firework. Where in the world would BK have gotten his hands on some kind of device like this to use it to confuse/misdirect people in the house. I've seen a lot of different references calling it a dazzler (could possibly come in a case like DM saw him carrying).

Early on, there was talk about the theft at WSU. I cannot imagine that they have this for crowd control, but maybe they could?. This is the single most confusing thing (and there has been a lot). JMOO

Follow-up: $99?

Cerberus – High-Intensity Dazzler Flashlight, Handheld or Rail Mount, Military & Police Visual Disruption – Powerful Beam for Security & Emergencies – Made in USA

Cerberus – High-Intensity Dazzler Flashlight, Handheld or Rail Mount, Military & Police Visual Disruption – Powerful Beam for Security & Emergencies – Made in USA

www.mizbc.com

I always thought it was possibly xana getting the door dash, dropping her phone. No one has mentioned hearing her open and close the front door. Is it possible she saw the light of either the door opening or xanas phone being used as a flashlight to get her food? We know it was dropped at that front door, yet we don't hear about her retrieving it. At least not that I remember. But it was so close in time to the attack that they could be seen as 1 event.

 

[Megnut]

 

[Chloegirl]

I always thought it was possibly xana getting the door dash, dropping her phone. No one has mentioned hearing her open and close the front door. Is it possible she saw the light of either the door opening or xanas phone being used as a flashlight to get her food? We know it was dropped at that front door, yet we don't hear about her retrieving it. At least not that I remember. But it was so close in time to the attack that they could be seen as 1 event.

Right, but that doesn't account for the noise. JMOO

 

[Megnut]

I always thought it was possibly xana getting the door dash, dropping her phone. No one has mentioned hearing her open and close the front door. Is it possible she saw the light of either the door opening or xanas phone being used as a flashlight to get her food? We know it was dropped at that front door, yet we don't hear about her retrieving it. At least not that I remember. But it was so close in time to the attack that they could be seen as 1 event.

There is just so much we don't know, lost because BK murdered multiple witnesses.

But there's also a lot we do know.

Like we learned that the DDD didn't not see who retrieved the order she left at the lower level door.

We now know that, at a time, XK and EC were on the couch together. I don't think we know what time EC sent himself to bed or what time XK acquired nightwear (sweatshirt and panties, no footwear).

We now know the DDD arrived much earlier than we knew. She was in the area for 15 minutes, moved her vehicle, was on foot, was going to deliver to the slider but opted not to, all starting at about 3:45 am.

And we know that BK was circling the neighborhood like a shark to bloody water, and that he was looping from about 3:30 onward and overlapped with the DDD, quite intensely really.

She may have gotten the window wrong but she got the hair color right, indicating she'd seen a dark haired girl in the window. Popping up and down out of sight.

Consider: XK was expecting her DD at 3:45, may have been tracking it in real time on her phone. KG could have been waiting with her, happy to have found Murphy. Didn't one of the surviving roommates say someone said she was going up to bed? Maybe she was keeping XP company until her DD arrived and had only recent 'gone to bed' when BB entered.

If XK was on the couch, popping up periodically to check for her delivery, the DDD could have interpreted that as popping quickly out of sight when it really was popping quickly in to sight -- a quick scan for headlights. But also, if she was watching for her DD, XK could have seen the Elantra, even thinking it might be her DD.

It is just so unfathomable that, just two hours before BK breached their slider, the five roommates, the one guest and the one dog were all very much alive but also AWAKE.

BK was still at his apartment, no doubt gathering his kill kit and taking active steps to mitigate transfer...

Chumming on KG's bed
Housemates letting Murphy out
Everybody hungry
Food truck meal, chips, call to the sober driver, DD order....
Calls to KG's ex-boyfriend
TikTok

While he probably showered, shaved, dressed -- all with ghastly intent. Sharpened his kbar. Checked the scanner, to monitor the police presence in his apartment complex. All systems go.

The convergence chills me.

1122 King Road embodied the college experience, that microcosm of real life that should have become, over the span of decades, a delightful kaleidoscope of memories, the same mental montage so many of us have, when we reflect on that plump epoch of our pasts. Instead he murdered that. Murdered four college kids, living the college dream.

Evil.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

What he did was evil, what he is is evil. Evil- minded.

There's maybe no study on it, no link I could offer, but you get the sense BK never slept, and without sleep, his brain never got any nighttime repair, and utterly isolated (because he didn't know how to relate to anyone, except for within the dysfunction of his family, where the root of that dysfunction was him), his thinking never underwent repair nor redirection, no one to challenge his lines of thought. Imagine feeling smarter than everyone else where your only data points are ones you entered, talking to yourself in your head and agreeing with everything you've said, never a voice of reason, never a challenge, just a horrible, stupid, evil idea, left utterly unchecked.

And this is what you get, an awful awful awful crime, carried out awfully.

What an awful human being. Awful person, awful son, awful sibling, awful friend, awful male, awful driver, awful TA, awful colleague, awful PhD student, awful everything.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Also entirely possible. If multiple targets, I imagine he expected one roommate per room. And no one being able to fight back.

After two rooms with two occupants, perhaps he wasn't taking his chances on more.

JMO

And Murphy's almost constant barking

 

[arielilane]

Full police interview with surviving Idaho roommate Bethany Funke.She describes seeing a “firework.”Also she tells the detective about Kaylee seeing someone staring at her in the backyard about a month before the murders.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1965435640188920275

Police interview Idaho surviving roommate Bethany Funke -- remembers seeing a 'firework'​

Surviving roommate Bethany Funke is interviewed by a detective just hours after police arrived to the murder scene at 1122 King Road in Moscow, Idaho. In this edition of Brian Entin Investigates, watch the full interview with Funke as she describes the timeline the night before the murders and exactly what she remembers. She also discusses victim Kaylee Goncalves' fear of being watched by someone in the backyard about one month before the murders. We may never know whether that person was Bryan Kohberger.