Police say parents are not answering vital questions #3

[Whisperer]

Sabrina wasn't kidnapped either. They hid the baby well. What a shame for these poor defenseless babies. Sabrina was most likely not in her crib when she vanished...another story of a child taken from the crib...GMAB!

 

[cityslick]

Yeah..SB says she was in her crib and JI says he was playing with her and the boys...

....SB was not convincing with her statement. She used the word, "Apparently" fine. That indicates she assumed she was fine which could mean she didn't see her moving...OR she may not have even seen her but assumed since she was quiet all was well.

When SB comes forward and speaks then I can evaluate. She seems to have locked herself up with DB and the legal team. There is no one who needs four different Criminal Defense Attorneys when their child vanishes. They are covering for someone or something and SB is going along for the ride with them.

So basically everyone except LE is lying? If that's the case I'm not really sure why we're wasting our time trying to figure out the facts when everything is a lie except for LE, who are not talking.

SB doesn't have an attorney btw.

 

[krimekat]

Has anyone confirmed JI's work hours? It has been said he normally gets home @ 4:30pm meaning he most likely starts work @ 7:30am. This seems about right if he is working for a commercial project.

If that is accurate, then he came home early that day. Where was DB from 2:30 to 5:00pm? Did DB say that Lisa was in her crib @ 4:30pm or did that info come from SB?

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150977"]Lisa Irwin-Timeline - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Here's the Time Line thread - hopefully answers are defined in the time line . . .

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7347233&postcount=25"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Lisa Irwin-Timeline[/ame]

and this specific post is reflective of the The First 16 Hours & has info for the 3 Oct

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Being married to a nurse, I can tell you I've never heard her say that they left a dead body for a day as some are suggesting happened to Lisa, and a small home is a much more confined place than a hospital, thus the stench of a dead body would be more intense IMHO.

I am a nurse. I can tell you that when a patient dies they are not immediately removed to a morgue or funeral home. There are times as in a Hospice setting or a nursing home where family members wish to stay with the person a while after their death or the need is there to keep the deceased person in their room while waiting for family members coming from out of town. There are times when this has been done for 4 hours or more. Many people die (of natural causes) but the coroner takes hours to arrive to pronounce death. I have seen these scenarios and not one time has a swarm of flies taken over the body immediately The smell of a decomposing body is not immediate as the odor originates from decomposing tissue and organs and while the decomposition process starts immediately, the breakdown of the tissues and that takes some time.

Here is a good article that explains a timeline for decomposition...

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2005-04/1114460899.Gb.r.html

 

[Whisperer]

So basically everyone except LE is lying? If that's the case I'm not really sure why we're wasting our time trying to figure out the facts when everything is a lie except for LE, who are not talking.

SB doesn't have an attorney btw.

...are you sure?

 

[Whisperer]

I thank you for the references, Krimekat. I will use the videos and confirmation from reputable sources.Since I don't think Lisa was abducted from her crib, I find the Bradley timeline suspicious at best. I realize it's all we have.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

So basically everyone except LE is lying? If that's the case I'm not really sure why we're wasting our time trying to figure out the facts when everything is a lie except for LE, who are not talking.

SB doesn't have an attorney btw.

FWIW, I give more credibility to LE than to a woman that proclaimed on national television that she was drunk to the point of blacking out while caring for 3 children, one of whom went missing while in her drunken stupor.

 

[Whisperer]

An deceased adult human will completely skeletonize within two weeks if left outdoors in a warm environment.

 

[krimekat]

I thank you for the references, Krimekat. I will use the videos and confirmation from reputable sources.Since I don't think Lisa was abducted from her crib, I find the Bradley timeline suspicious at best. I realize it's all we have.

It's not Bradley's time line; it was put together by WSers who took the time & energy to piece meal MSM links together.

No matter what your theory is -- these "facts" are our basis.

 

[Whisperer]

I think the issue currently is we don't know exactly what the dog hit on and there was a limited number of items that were taken from the house. We've seen that in past cases where there has been dog hit(s), lots of stuff has been taken. For example, if there was any hit in that car, the car would of been taken and processed. I think if there was a hit in the crib or even DB's bed, all of that would of been taken. But it also doesn't mean it's a 100% guarantee that there was a dead body in any of those items.

...AND it doesn't mean there wasn't. I say since a cadaver dog hit, the possibility of there being a dead body greatly increases.

When you take the totality of the circumstances of the hit and the failure of a poly, and the inebriation of the parent, it is more likely than not that a death occurred in the house.

 

[Whisperer]

It's not Bradley's time line; it was put together by WSers who took the time & energy to piece meal MSM links together.

No matter what you theory is -- these "facts" are our basis.

I have not read them all. I told you I appreciate your links and now I will say the effort but they can only be based on what Bradley told them regarding the house...and Lisa.

Lisa may have been gone before 6:40pm. I can only base facts on what they actually say and evaluate if I think it is true. In DB's case, I don't find her credible. This is my opinion about her character. I have learned from talking to reporters in cases that many of them simply take the information from another's reports and add something to it. Many can not and do not verify. They mainly take from the AP at the beginning as their base. After that, it is stories that build from new witnesses, if not, they rearrange what they have reported before or what someone else has reported before.

They get nothing from LE. In the old days, LE would tell the press the facts and would verify if asked....those days are long gone. Reporters are left to fill in and they get their info wherever they can...and many times cannot verify what they read or hear.

 

[cityslick]

FWIW, I give more credibility to LE than to a woman that proclaimed on national television that she was drunk to the point of blacking out while caring for 3 children, one of whom went missing while in her drunken stupor.

What about the credibility of everyone else?

 

[cityslick]

[/B]
...AND it doesn't mean there wasn't. I say since a cadaver dog hit, the possibility of there being a dead body greatly increases.

When you take the totality of the circumstances of the hit and the failure of a poly, and the inebriation of the parent, it is more likely than not that a death occurred in the house.

The failure of the poly is not a fact. I thought you didn't find DB credible? That little nugget came from DB herself.

The inebriation also came from DB.

So it's either you believe what she's saying or not.

 

[Donjeta]

The failure of the poly is not a fact. I thought you didn't find DB credible? That little nugget came from DB herself.

The inebriation also came from DB.

So it's either you believe what she's saying or not.

No, it's not an either-or situation imo. Nobody lies all the time. So even if somebody is thought to be lying about something that happened and is thought to be not credible it might make sense to believe something else they said.

 

[Donjeta]

I have never even seen SB or seen a direct quote straight from her and not via "a source" and so I can't have a firm opinion about her credibility but supposedly she was drinking vodka that night and it might have an effect on her memory and overall reliability as a witness. DB is not sure if she blacked out or not; is SB sure she didn't?

 

[cityslick]

No, it's not an either-or situation imo. Nobody lies all the time. So even if somebody is thought to be lying about something that happened and is thought to be not credible it might make sense to believe something else they said.

That's a convienent way of picking and choosing what to believe when someone says something. For example:

It looks bad that DB would fail a poly, so I believe when she said she failed one.

It looks bad that DB was drunk when watching kids, so I believe when she said she was.

It makes her look innocent by her saying she blacked out and didn't hear anyone come in the house, so I don't believe her

It makes her look innocent when she says she didn't know when JI was coming home, so I don't believe her.

 

[cityslick]

I have never even seen SB or seen a direct quote straight from her and not via "a source" and so I can't have a firm opinion about her credibility but supposedly she was drinking vodka that night and it might have an effect on her memory and overall reliability as a witness. DB is not sure if she blacked out or not; is SB sure she didn't?

I believe the SB stuff came from the People article, which seems to get quoted a lot on here. She says she checked on BL at a certain time, I have no reason to believe she's lying. The fact that she's DB's friend shouldn't automatically make whatever she says a lie.

 

[Donjeta]

That's a convienent way of picking and choosing what to believe when someone says something. For example:

It looks bad that DB would fail a poly, so I believe when she said she failed one.

It looks bad that DB was drunk when watching kids, so I believe when she said she was.

It makes her look innocent by her saying she blacked out and didn't hear anyone come in the house, so I don't believe her

It makes her look innocent when she says she didn't know when JI was coming home, so I don't believe her.

She changed her story so not everything she said can be true at the same time. IMO. But it is possible that she had some an excellent reason to make up lies that make her look like a bad, drunk caregiver when in fact she was completely sober and took excellent care of the children and didn't neglect them in the least. I can't think of one but it doesn't mean there isn't any.

I am actually not convinced she was drunk It might have been a cover story to explain the gaps in the timeline she said she had. (Of course, that is provided that we believe her when she says so.) So sorry, I just realized I don't remember because I was so drunk...

When did she say she didn't know when JI was coming home? I thought it came from a lawyer but I don't remember hearing her saying so. I think it's quite possible she didn't know, FWIW.
Anyway, it doesn't matter if she knew or not, imo. It only makes a difference if she had planned to do away with Lisa but if something unforeseen happened in a drunken fog knowing or not knowing JI's work schedule would not have stopped it from happening.

I don't know if she failed a poly or not and I think it's possible that DB doesn't know either. I do believe the police told her she did because again, I can't figure out any reason why she'd have told the media she failed if she hadn't been told so. But I don't think she's an expert on polygraphs so she would probably just have believed what the police said. Which may or may not be true.

 

[Donjeta]

I believe the SB stuff came from the People article, which seems to get quoted a lot on here. She says she checked on BL at a certain time, I have no reason to believe she's lying. The fact that she's DB's friend shouldn't automatically make whatever she says a lie.

No but if she was plastered it makes her an unreliable witness.

Nothing to do with her relationship with DB, it's just the way drunken people are.

I don't understand why she checked on Lisa. Wasn't her father home? Why would a neighbor need to check on her?

 

[cityslick]

No but if she was plastered it makes her an unreliable witness.

Nothing to do with her relationship with DB, it's just the way drunken people are.

I don't understand why she checked on Lisa. Wasn't her father home? Why would a neighbor need to check on her?

I say check but that's a bad choice of words, could of been as simple as BL's door was open, she walked by it and saw BL in her crib.