Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[OEJ]

.. and Jennifer Wilmott, Bobby Juarez, etc .. So how do you think that would have effected her, in regards to the threat of exposure and the murder .. there is another question in all this, how would that whole experience have been like for Travis?

I think the threat of exposure was probably a biggie but was just further reinforcing a course of action she had already decided upon. I think our brains would scramble if we could see the sheer amount of drama Jodi was creating in Travis' life even from afar.

I don't think her relationship with Travis was even about him but about her. I think she just tries on one identity after another trying to feel alive. Travis was the vehicle through which she could feel good things. She couldn't generate any of that on her own.

I still can't work out completely how she thought murdering him would help her with her identity issues unless she was saying to herself that if I destroy him, he can't threaten my fragilely-built identity anymore?

 

[SMK]

My theory is based on transference. Since her state of denial is so utterly absolute, you can get your only clue as to her emotions by observing the negative emotions she transfers to others. What negative emotion do we see all the time around her in other people? Anger. And is there a particular type of anger that is most important to her. Yes. Anger with a strong component of self-hatred directed inward. Travis was perfect for her. He was hard to anger, and he was forgiving. Yet, at will, she could flip his anger on and off with the degree of intensity she desired. And Travis would tend to blame himself because he felt weak and victimized and helpless. Self-hatred for Travis. The endlessly repeating theme of their relationship. Victory for Jodi, she maintained her absolute denial always.

This still does not explain the murder for me. Did she transfer her anger to him completely and kill him trying to eliminate it forever? Psychobabble? :scared:

"Transference" is apparently the wrong word for what I'm describing. I don't know the right word or if there is one!

I would say "Transference" is in fact the correct word. And your idea carries weight.

 

[human]

I have learned that anger is a secondary emotion. As teachers, we were to look past the anger and figure out what triggered the anger. It makes a lot of sense to me.

http://www.creducation.org/resources/anger_management/anger__a_secondary_emotion.html

 

[lil_buddy]

Good theory, OEJ.

I always had the thought that it had something to do with her hacking into his banking accounts or prostitution.

TA said he was going to tell everyone, including her parents.

How can we ever find out???

Maybe Shanna Hogan will know?lease:lease:lease:

 

[lil_buddy]

You just made that up---a "Proclivity Offender List", right?

I have never heard of anything like that......

Let me put it to you this way...
When I googled "Proclivity Offender List" this very thread was in the first 3 results...

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Let me put it to you this way...
When I googled "Proclivity Offender List" this very thread was in the first 3 results...

:facepalm:

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Maybe Shanna Hogan will know?lease:lease:lease:

Copied/Pasted from the SH website as of June 5th.

"Picture Perfect"
The True Story of a Beautiful Photographer, Her Mormon Lover, and a Deadly Obsession

The definitive book on the Jodi Arias case will be released on October 29 by St. Martin’s Press. Pre-order now on Amazon.

 

[lil_buddy]

My theory is based on transference. Since her state of denial is so utterly absolute, you can get your only clue as to her emotions by observing the negative emotions she transfers to others. What negative emotion do we see all the time around her in other people? Anger. And is there a particular type of anger that is most important to her. Yes. Anger with a strong component of self-hatred directed inward. Travis was perfect for her. He was hard to anger, and he was forgiving. Yet, at will, she could flip his anger on and off with the degree of intensity she desired. And Travis would tend to blame himself because he felt weak and victimized and helpless. Self-hatred for Travis. The endlessly repeating theme of their relationship. Victory for Jodi, she maintained her absolute denial always.

This still does not explain the murder for me. Did she transfer her anger to him completely and kill him trying to eliminate it forever? Psychobabble? :scared:

"Transference" is apparently the wrong word for what I'm describing. I don't know the right word or if there is one!

I believe it is projection.

"Psychological projection was first conceptualized by Sigmund Freud as a defence mechanism in which a person unconsciously rejects his or her own unacceptable attributes by ascribing them to objects or persons in the outside world instead. Thus, projection involves psychically expelling one's negative qualities onto others, and is a common psychological process. Theoretically, projection and the related projective identification reduces anxiety by allowing the unconscious expression of the unwanted unconscious impulses or desires through displacement."


Psychological projection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SMK]

Let me put it to you this way...
When I googled "Proclivity Offender List" this very thread was in the first 3 results...

That is not the point, whether the name is coined or popular. It remains a real question to many serious people.

Unfortunately, I cannot recall the name of the text or the author (it was a Philosophy of Jurisprudence course in my undergraduate days) but the piece spoke of the concern of tagging people as "proclivity to offend" and spoke about the very real dangers of abuse and misinterpretation.

Laugh it off if you like; it remains a legitimate question and quite worrisome for those who believe Justice is the supreme concern. CS Lewis wrote an essay which expressed this same concern already palpable to him many decades ago.:snooty:

 

[SMK]

I believe it is projection.

"Psychological projection was first conceptualized by Sigmund Freud as a defence mechanism in which a person unconsciously rejects his or her own unacceptable attributes by ascribing them to objects or persons in the outside world instead. Thus, projection involves psychically expelling one's negative qualities onto others, and is a common psychological process. Theoretically, projection and the related projective identification reduces anxiety by allowing the unconscious expression of the unwanted unconscious impulses or desires through displacement."


Psychological projection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Projection is also good; Of course, at its core," transference is the supreme projection"
of childhood ego contents and parental influence onto the therapist or significant other (Searles, "Counter Transference")

 

[OEJ]

My theory is based on transference. Since her state of denial is so utterly absolute, you can get your only clue as to her emotions by observing the negative emotions she transfers to others. What negative emotion do we see all the time around her in other people? Anger. And is there a particular type of anger that is most important to her. Yes. Anger with a strong component of self-hatred directed inward. Travis was perfect for her. He was hard to anger, and he was forgiving. Yet, at will, she could flip his anger on and off with the degree of intensity she desired. And Travis would tend to blame himself because he felt weak and victimized and helpless. Self-hatred for Travis. The endlessly repeating theme of their relationship. Victory for Jodi, she maintained her absolute denial always.

This still does not explain the murder for me. Did she transfer her anger to him completely and kill him trying to eliminate it forever? Psychobabble? :scared:

"Transference" is apparently the wrong word for what I'm describing. I don't know the right word or if there is one!

Projection! She DOES do this a lot. Travis was the abuser not her. She also seems to do a reverse thing with this by stealing his victimization and projecting it on herself. It was her who had the stalker not Travis. She's the ultimate victim here not Travis.

 

[lil_buddy]

For anyone who is confused/interested:

Transference is a phenomenon characterized by unconscious redirection of feelings from one person to another. One definition of transference is "the inappropriate repetition in the present of a relationship that was important in a person's childhood." Another definition is "the redirection of feelings and desires and especially of those unconsciously retained from childhood toward a new object." Still another definition is "a reproduction of emotions relating to repressed experiences, especially of childhood, and the substitution of another person ... for the original object of the repressed impulses." Transference was first described by Sigmund Freud, who acknowledged its importance for psychoanalysis for better understanding of the patient's feelings.

Transference - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Countertransference is defined as redirection of a psychotherapist's feelings toward a client—or, more generally, as a therapist's emotional entanglement with a client.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countertransference

I am certain one can find plenty of examples of transference on this very thread.

 

[SMK]

:facepalm:

It is a very valid concern, and has been for many decades. See CS Lewis, The Humanitarian Theory of Punishment , c. 1949, in which he expresses his grave concerns about the psychological model, its propensity for cruelty and misuse, and his worry over proclivity and "treatment" without end.

I am surprised this is being made light of. Who cares if "proclivity offenders registry" is not yet a valid term? The concept is worrisome, and has been brewing since post-World War II era....

 

[Mrs G Norris]

This projection discussion is interesting .. She does accuse everyone around her of things constantly .. That's her 'confessing' her true self by proxy ..

 

[human]

It is felt by some that some of Freud's women patients were sexual abuse victims.

He dealt with the wealthy class, so to think or admit any of those people could be sex abusers was not even possible.

So Freud came up with his Electra and Oedipal complexes, for some.

I do not know if you all have heard of Bakelite. Is it the first plastic?

Anyway, the grandson of the inventor killed his mother.

She hated that he was gay, so she had sex with him to try to change him. There is a book about it. The very rich are a strange lot as well, it seems

 

[Mrs G Norris]

True about Freud's patients, he could hardly start exposing all these rich powerful fathers, perhaps he couldn't even see it for himself. Well guess not ..

 

[SMK]

It is felt by some that some of Freud's women patients were sexual abuse victims.

He dealt with the wealthy class, so to think or admit any of those people could be sex abusers was not even possible.

So Freud came up with his Electra and Oedipal complexes, for some.

I do not know if you all have heard of Bakelite. Is it the first plastic?

Anyway, the grandson of the inventor killed his mother.

She hated that he was gay, so she had sex with him to try to change him. There is a book about it. The very rich are a strange lot as well, it seems

Yes, Freud did a real disservice to the pain of incest victims with his rationalizing of it.

OMG, I read the book about Bakelite inventor's grandson---it was horrific.

His mother had seduced him and forced sexual intercourse repeatedly. And then after he killed her, and went away, and came back, the grandmother forced him to look at her ashes on the fireplace mantel--and he killed the grandmother as well. He never stood a chance.

 

[human]

Here is the Wiki synopsis.

It makes Jodi look like a sweetheart

Barbara Daly Baekeland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

It is a very valid concern, and has been for many decades. See CS Lewis, The Humanitarian Theory of Punishment , c. 1949, in which he expresses his grave concerns about the psychological model, its propensity for cruelty and misuse, and his worry over proclivity and "treatment" without end.

I am surprised this is being made light of. Who cares if "proclivity offenders registry" is not yet a valid term? The concept is worrisome, and has been brewing since post-World War II era....

I understand that you feel it is important, I really do. And I understand that you learned the concept of "proclivity offenders registry/list" in an undergrad Jurisprudence class. Undergrad classes always make for developing good critical thinking and yet at the same time, tend to make one think that whatever topic/subject at hand is of urgent importance.

Here's what I'm saying:

If you had taken an Actuarial class, what would be focused would be statistics say of those who will inherit heart disease (if we want to stay on genetics & inheritability). See, there's money in that arena and therefore a slight chance that it stands to be enacted possibly further down the road.

Money changes things and moves research forward but there really is very little money for any agency or private sector to push for "proclivity registries" for mental health. We all know that psycho/social dynamics impact development and the outcomes of personality disorders and emotionality. There is no guarantee, "recipe" or perfect science to pre-determine who will become a murderer. Heck, we can't even get basic mental health care in this country, let alone a leap out to the abyss of a "proclivity registry".

So that's why I have said I wouldn't worry about it so much, SMK. Science will progress regardless of our concerns and worries about eugenics will always be there. I understand completely.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Yes, Freud did a real disservice to the pain of incest victims with his rationalizing of it.

OMG, I read the book about Bakelite inventor's grandson---it was horrific.

His mother had seduced him and forced sexual intercourse repeatedly. And then after he killed her, and went away, and came back, the grandmother forced him to look at her ashes on the fireplace mantel--and he killed the grandmother as well. He never stood a chance.

I believe he stabbed the grandmother but did not kill her--she lived.
It sounds like Anthony was a Paranoid Schizophrenic (AXIS I).