Pontiac: The odor, sealing off & processing the car #2

[JBean]

She was with whomever Kc gave her to, or whomever took her from Kc. I know it is hard to believe that a babysitter would do this. The Preachers Daughter out in California that dumped the little girl in the drainage ditch in suitcase had her own little Daughter. It is possible. And so far, Kc story of giving Caylee to the sitter is the only one that makes sense to me. IMO

There is also the possibility that Kc sold the baby. It happens. I am suspicious of Kc being on that end of town (walmart) on the June 16th.

I do not believe that Caylee was in that trunk. The little tiny bit of trace evidence that was found (quetionable evidence) , is not consistant at all with other people whom have been put in trunks. There should have been lots of hair, lots of decomp, lots of dna, lots of bodily fluids. Caylees body was 36 inches long. The laundry bag was 24 inches long and only 16 inches in diameter with a steel ring. One trash bag was 36 inches long and the other was 24 inches long. It would be a difficult task to get her in there. After reading the Medical examiners report 10 times, I still can not tell if the main part of the body was in the bag. (arm bones, leg bones hand bones, foot bones all together). Yuri and other investigators did not even take the smell seriously. They didn't secure the car until the 17th. I can only conclude that they felt the smell was trash, otherwise if they really believed that smell was human decomp, they would have secured that car as a crime scene righ away. This is all just my opinion of course and I know it is a little off topic, and I am sorry for that, but I wanted to answer the question with all due respect.

As BeanE has pointed out the date of the 17th was an error on the investigators part during the bond hearing. In his defense he said something to the effect that they took it the day after and he was wrong on his starting date so his date calculation was off which is how he came up with the 17th.
Enough information was gleaned from the documents to support that the car was absolutely taken somewhere between 4:33pm and 7:45ish on the 16th. If you need supporting documentation it is peppered through the thread and should be fairly easy to locate.

Also I would be curious to know where the money she got from selling the baby went? She stole most everything she bought after Caylee's disappearance so I am not sure that makes much sense.

 

[JBean]

I'm not clear about what YM knew when he arrived at the house. There were 3 911 calls. I think the calls about the stolen vehicle involving a mother and daughter would have been assigned to a uniformed officer and not a detective. When the 3rd call comes about a kidnapped toddler, YM is assigned. So, when YM gets to the Anthony's, does he even know about the first 2 calls? And if he does, has Cindy already gone into her "I only said the car was stolen to get somebody out here" routine? I understand police are trained to see beyond the surface, but they are not super-human. It must have been sheer chaos on Hopesprings drive that evening. I do see your point, JBean. I just feel like YM had to prioritize on the spot and following KC's information first was the natural path.

Oh I am sorry I missed this post Phumi. We have posted plentyof links throughout the thread to support everything we are saying regarding the odor. So, if you go through the thread you will defintiely become clear as to exactly what happened and when.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Thought it might help to establish a 'living' timeline. To update, simply quote it and wipe out the quote commands and add/fix the information.

7/16/08

##:## AM Yuri dropped Casey back @ G&C's after the Sawgrass, etc. runaround. George informed Yuri that he & Cindy believed Casey was withholding information and they're concerned something has happened to Caylee.

##:## AM Yuri briefed Sgt. Allen

##:## AM Yuri visited Sawgrass Apt. and inquired about ZFG, etc.

11:30-11:44AM Yuri visited Universal Studios w/ Investigator Turtora re: Casey's employment information, etc. and called Casey to inquire about some of the details

12:30PM Sgt. Allen & Det. Wells picked up Casey from G&C's and transported her to Universal Studios

##:##PM Det. Beasley arrived @ G&C's to process the Pontiac and receives additional items from Cindy. Need to locate this report again :doh:

<7:20PM Pontiac sealed @ G&C's by Det. Beasley

~7:20PM Pontiac towed from G&C's per Google travel time allowance from CSI arrival time

7:46PM Pontiac documented arrived @ CSI Forensics Bay by CSI Bloise

##:##PM CSI Bloise opens the sealed door and immediately notes the odor of human decomposition.

#:##PM Det. McBryde picks up George and proceeds to Tow Yard to retrieve the trash bag from the dumpster

9:57PM Det. McBryde photographs the trashbag in the dumpster and retrieves it, then returns to G&C's

10:13PM LE photographs G&C's sideyard

11:07PM Det. McBryde arrived @ the Forensics unit w/ the trash bag

##:## PM/AM Yuri arrived @ the Forensics unit and direct a search of the trash bag

7/17/08

Pontiac CSI work continued

3:31PM D/S Forgery's K9 cadaver inspected the trunk

 

[logicalgirl]

Hooray - Thanks BondJamesBond! I just knew it was the 16th but didn't see the revision until just now as I took a rest from the squirrel thread. Last I read everyone was insisting it was the 17th. Whew, some brain cells still clicking along.

 

[cecybeans]

Thanks BJB for always helping us to be organized - it's so much easier to draw better conclusions when we have a timeline!

 

[BondJamesBond]

Hooray - Thanks BondJamesBond! I just knew it was the 16th but didn't see the revision until just now as I took a rest from the squirrel thread. Last I read everyone was insisting it was the 17th. Whew, some brain cells still clicking along.

Hey, localgirl. I was confused and the good people here cleared it up. I recalled that Beasley's affidavit was dated 7/17 and didn't pay close attention that she picked it up 7/16PM and apparently finished up the paperwork into the next day.

Thanks BJB for always helping us to be organized - it's so much easier to draw better conclusions when we have a timeline!

Just summarizing the good work done earlier on the thread by others and throwing in a couple timestamps I noted in Bloise's report. Kicking myself for tossing all my files (again) :doh: Just can't walk away entirely.

If someone has Beasley's initial report of picking up the car can take another look @ it for any clues I would be grateful.

 

[JBean]

So I think we have come full circle and reconfirmed that the car taping took somewhere between 15 and 22 hours

 

[BondJamesBond]

So I think we have come full circle and reconfirmed that the car taping took somewhere between 15 and 22 hours

<7:20PM 7/16

Noting that Casey was home w/o LE, AFAIK, from early AM 7/16 to 12:30PM that day.

ETA: Should add that sometime between 7/15PM and 7/16AM the Pontiac was moved from the garage to the curb where Beasley noted it when she arrived. IIRC, Brittany stated observing G&C w/ it outside...dunno if that was 7/15PM or 7/16AM, but, would expect that to be 7/16AM.

 

[JBean]

<7:20PM 7/16

Noting that Casey was home w/o LE, AFAIK, from early AM 7/16 to 12:30PM that day.

also noting that KC was allowed to be alone in the garage with the car during that 15 to 22 hour time frame.

Far too long to be accessible,imo.

 

[BeanE]

For quick reference, in case it comes up, and because I just got done researching it lol, Henry Lee inspected the Pontiac on Nov 14 2008 at 10:18am.

He was accompanied by Jose Baez and an assistant. This entourage took a lunch break of a bit more than an hour. Henry Lee left at 4:15pm to catch a flight.

Although Bloise's office had arranged for the car to be put on a chassis for undercarriage inspection in advance of Dr Lee's arrival, Dr Lee chose not to have the car put on the chassis.

Reference: March 12 2009 motion hearing. Defense motion March 4 2009 to sanction state for not providing Dr Lee the white trash bag from the trunk. Contents of trash bag were provided. Motion denied.

 

[logicalgirl]

also noting that KC was allowed to be alone in the garage with the car during that 15 to 22 hour time frame.

Far too long to be accessible,imo.

Really though, isn't the important stuff that was left behind is what she couldn't get rid of? I'd guess if there was anything obviously incriminating Cindy and George made short order of cleaning it up immediately.

 

[JBean]

I've done a lot of research on this recently. We don't know exactly what Yuri knew, when he was told, or who told him. All we know for sure is that before Yuri questioned KC, which he did as soon as he arrived at the house about 3:30/3:45, somebody told him about the smell in the car.

It may have been one of the first responding officers briefing Yuri (one of them had gotten in the car and retrieved a note prior to Yuri's arrival), or it may have been George.

We don't have the call notes from the 911 calls, so we don't know if Cindy's statement was passed on to the first responding officers.

The one statement from a first responding officer I was able to find makes no mention of the smell. The officer says she responded to a stolen vehicle call, and it was changed to a kidnapping.

I tend to think it was one or more of the officers who told Yuri, because I believe it's standard procedure for officers to brief detectives when they arrive on the scene, and I believe this briefing would normally occur prior to interviewing people at the scene. MOO

However it happened, we do know that Yuri knew very early on his arrival about the smell in the car, per his own statements. We also know, again from Yuri's own statements, that he was suspicious of KC's story even before he recorded the interview with her. And the interview is what he says was the first thing he did at the house.

I see two 'misses' by LE. One is allowing KC to go into the garage with the car alone, and the second is not sealing or guarding the car sooner.

I see two possible impacts from these two 'misses'. One is that valuable evidence *may* have been lost - I doubt we'll ever know, and I can't think what could possibly be done about it at this point. The other impact would be the possibility of the defense using these 'misses' as evidence of an inadequate LE investigation, but I don't think they'll go there - they sure don't want to say there was any problem with KC being alone with the car, and I don't think they'd want to say the car should have been sealed or guarded because they seem to want to postulate that there was no dead body in the car. To the defense, if KC is innocent, there's no problem with her car. Hope I made sense - haven't had my coffee yet!

One thing we do know for a fact is that george told YM about the smell "when YM first saw george,when YM first got to the house"(7/24 interview GA and YM page 1754) GA not only told YM about the smell upon YM's arrival, but GA said to Yuri " I believe there is something dead back there"
http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photo...606-O_CASEY_ANTHONY_PG._1733-1803_Page_22.htm

we also know for a fact that Cindy told dispatch about the smell like a dead body in the car during the last 911 call and the officers arrived before that call was over.

 

[JBean]

Really though, isn't the important stuff that was left behind is what she couldn't get rid of? I'd guess if there was anything obviously incriminating Cindy and George made short order of cleaning it up immediately.

who knows? we'll never know. As for GA and CA they seemed to make a bigger deal out of the car smell than LE did and they were not taken seriously imo. They BOTH told LE the car smelled like a dead body and no one seemed to really care.
Imagine LE arriving at a crime scene and not keeping everyone out of it by taping it off while they collect evidence.

 

[BeanE]

One thing we do know for a fact is that george told YM about the smell "when YM first saw george,when YM first got to the house"(7/24 interview GA and YM page 1754) GA not only told YM about the smell upon YM's arrival, but GA said to Yuri " I believe there is something dead back there"
http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photo...606-O_CASEY_ANTHONY_PG._1733-1803_Page_22.htm

we also know for a fact that Cindy told dispatch about the smell like a dead body in the car during the last 911 call and the officers arrived before that call was over.

YM: "When I first saw you that night"

Yep, that confirms it.

Thanks, JBean.

So he would have talked with GA between his arrival at 3:30/3:45 and about 4:00. He started recording his interview with KC at about 4:15, and notes that he talked with her before recording, so I'm giving him about 15 minutes before recording to talk with her.

I sure wish we knew if any of the officers were at least keeping an eye on the car from the time the one officer got the note out of the car. Here we have KC with YM, the car in the garage - and people milling about the house.

 

[JBean]

YM: "When I first saw you that night"

Yep, that confirms it.

Thanks, JBean.

So he would have talked with GA between his arrival at 3:30/3:45 and about 4:00. He started recording his interview with KC at about 4:15, and notes that he talked with her before recording, so I'm giving him about 15 minutes before recording to talk with her.

I sure wish we knew if any of the officers were at least keeping an eye on the car from the time the one officer got the note out of the car. Here we have KC with YM, the car in the garage - and people milling about the house.

YM: When I first saw you that night, when i first came to your house.there was a mention of the car. there was a mention of what you smelled in the car
YM: Do you remember what you told me?
GA:I,I believe there is something dead back there.And I hate to say the word human.....

 

[BeanE]

Whoa wait a minute. The present tense just hit me. "I believe there is something dead back there"

And they still didn't secure the car? Not good. Not good at all.

 

[JBean]

Whoa wait a minute. The present tense just hit me. "I believe there is something dead back there"

And they still didn't secure the car? Not good. Not good at all.

zackly. BeanE we don't even know if they actually looked in the trunk do we?!

 

[BeanE]

zackly. BeanE we don't even know if they actually looked in the trunk do we?!

JBean, in all the digging I've done (and you know that's a heck of a lot), I haven't seen one thing about any LE opening the trunk.

I feel sick.

 

[JBean]

JBean, in all the digging I've done (and you know that's a heck of a lot), I haven't seen one thing about any LE opening the trunk.

I feel sick.

Holy moly. We know they got the phone number out of the car, is it even possible that they didn't look in the trunk?
If they had it must have smelled and if they didn't why didn't they when the dead body smell was reported. eac h scenario is bad in its own way.

 

[BeanE]

Holy moly. We know they got the phone number out of the car, is it even possible that they didn't look in the trunk?
If they had it must have smelled and if they didn't why didn't they when the dead body smell was reported. eac h scenario is bad in its own way.

Maybe GA said he had already looked in the trunk and didn't see a body? But with a smell that strong, and a baby missing, I would have immediately thought 'wheel well'.

If any of them looked in the trunk, would they not have noted it anywhere?