Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert, 24, missing May 2010, found Oak Beach Dec 2011 #3

[Mr.Dandy]

I do not know for sure.
I believe the sex work industry is rather insular and localized. I am sure the Pimps and Procurers are aware of each other in a given community. With advertising and agencies quite common, likely the workers/providers are also aware of each other and the clientele. Workers may often regularly frequent certain venues, where they come into contact with each other.
So on the balance of probability, some knew likely each other.

See, Shannan’s story is so weird. Ok so she takes a date at a house in Oak Beach. The articles will tell you she went for the date, stayed an extra amount of time, freaked out, ran to the neighbors and disappeared only to be found dead in the marsh 2 years later. But that’s not the whole story. There’s Hackett, a doctor neighbor that conveniently treated Shannan and wanted to open a home for wayward sex workers. This is fact because there are sworn statements about it. (I still don’t even know the whole story. I keep digging up pieces). So what I was wondering, even though I’m sure it’s a stretch, was Shannan trying to find a friend who disappeared with a connection to Oak Beach? The G4? Someone we don’t know? I’m very bothered by Hackett’s “home for girls” prospect. Personally, I haven’t unearthed enough to blame him but I’m so very curious about who else he may have known or have had contact with.

 

[james.coff]

Well take the time to read all the depositions, it took me months to finish them. When you get done with them you will know that Ray is not in it for just money and he's not just a lawyer. M00

The original investigation was “tainted” so to speak. From the 911 call forward, the investigation was mishandled, covered up, slow walked, etc. There’s not much from the evidence that can’t be questioned, with the exception of the recording of the 911 call and calls made to victims family and friends, plus the second autopsy report. False information was given to the family, their attorney and possibly to the news media.

JMO, there would need to be a new investigation by an independent LE agency. Even then, new investigators would be left with mostly the same old evidence.

ETA: A scenario I considered from early in SGs sad story was that she was that after last being seen banging on the Dorris of neighbors homes in Oak Beach, she went into someone’s home, found herself in danger and needed to escape again. She may have been chased from a location while fully or partially undressed, running into the marsh where she was killed. The killer or others who retrieved her discarded clothing and belongings and disposed of them back in the marsh. JMO

I also always wondered if she had left Brewer's house partially dressed!!! I read the investigation files by NJ police and there is a ton of info there, they seemed to take it more seriously than SCPD did. Ray def did way more than some try to portray, but it seems like this site is really top notch on real sources and I appreciate all of you!

 

[Mr.Dandy]

I also always wondered if she had left Brewer's house partially dressed!!! I read the investigation files by NJ police and there is a ton of info there, they seemed to take it more seriously than SCPD did. Ray def did way more than some try to portray, but it seems like this site is really top notch on real sources and I appreciate all of you!

It didn’t really sound like she was partially dressed in the autopsy report. She had on some clothes while other clothes were found in the surrounding area, presumably, from animals that were scavenging her body. Originally I too thought she was nude or at least partially nude, but after reading the autopsy , I changed my opinion.

 

[WINDSOR]

It didn’t really sound like she was partially dressed in the autopsy report. She had on some clothes while other clothes were found in the surrounding area, presumably, from animals that were scavenging her body. Originally I too thought she was nude or at least partially nude, but after reading the autopsy , I changed my opinion.

As far as I know, nobody reported Shannan partially dressed after she left Brewer's house, and we know she was seen by at least one person, Gus Coletti. Secondly one would assume she was dressed after she was treated by Dr. Hackett. Doctors tend not to release their patients when they are only partially dressed.

MP who was following her has not publicly mentioned her clothing.

 

[james.coff]

It didn’t really sound like she was partially dressed in the autopsy report. She had on some clothes while other clothes were found in the surrounding area, presumably, from animals that were scavenging her body. Originally I too thought she was nude or at least partially nude, but after reading the autopsy , I changed my opinion.

It says she was possible wearing tights and that a pair of jeans was submitted to the ME by SCPD, so I can't really understand if she was wearing those jeans or if they were found elsewhere on the autopsy report that I have. Where did you find the one you viewed, I would like to see if it has more details than mine or maybe I don't have the whole thing.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

As far as I know, nobody reported Shannan partially dressed after she left Brewer's house, and we know she was seen by at least one person, Gus Coletti. Secondly one would assume she was dressed after she was treated by Dr. Hackett. Doctors tend not to release their patients when they are only partially dressed.

MP who was following her has not publicly mentioned her clothing.

Yes, agree @WINDSOR ….. yet in this case, it seems some call into question the credentials of the doctor IMO? And if SG was in the condition (or fear or perhaps inconsolable or hysteria?) some reported IIRC, why would one let an individual like that leave unaccompanied? And what does one make of the alleged calls by that doctor to SG mother or sister IIUC?

IMO it seems an awful lot of individuals let SG down that evening. Sadly. MOO

 

[Mr.Dandy]

As far as I know, nobody reported Shannan partially dressed after she left Brewer's house, and we know she was seen by at least one person, Gus Coletti. Secondly one would assume she was dressed after she was treated by Dr. Hackett. Doctors tend not to release their patients when they are only partially dressed.

MP who was following her has not publicly mentioned her clothing.

So the one I have says there was a tan shirt, black bra, black thong panties(maybe) possible tights and denim jeans. I don’t know where I got this from but the autopsy is towards the bottom in a segment called clothing and personal and personal effects…. Let me know if the link goes through or not. https://www.gilgocase.com/pdf/Shannan_Gilbert_May17.pdf

 

[Mr.Dandy]

It says she was possible wearing tights and that a pair of jeans was submitted to the ME by SCPD, so I can't really understand if she was wearing those jeans or if they were found elsewhere on the autopsy report that I have. Where did you find the one you viewed, I would like to see if it has more details than mine or maybe I don't have the whole thing.

So the one I have says there was a tan shirt, black bra, black thong panties(maybe) possible tights and denim jeans. I don’t know where I got this from but the autopsy is towards the bottom in a segment called clothing and personal and personal effects…. Let me know if the link goes through or not. https://www.gilgocase.com/pdf/Shannan_Gilbert_May17.pdf

 

[WINDSOR]

Yes, agree @WINDSOR ….. yet in this case, it seems some call into question the credentials of the doctor IMO? And if SG was in the condition (or fear or perhaps inconsolable or hysteria?) some reported IIRC, why would one let an individual like that leave unaccompanied? And what does one make of the alleged calls by that doctor to SG mother or sister IIUC?

IMO it seems an awful lot of individuals let SG down that evening. Sadly. MOO

Maybe Dr. Hackett did not let Shannan leave unaccompanied. Maybe she was accompanied by Michael Pak. This would make sense. MP was following her that night, it is quite reasonable MP followed her to Dr. Hackett's home. A couple days later MP returns with Alex Dias to the community and meets Dr. Hackett. Coincidence?

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Maybe Dr. Hackett did not let Shannan leave unaccompanied. Maybe she was accompanied by Michael Pak. This would make sense. MP was following her that night, it is quite reasonable MP followed her to Dr. Hackett's home. A couple days later MP returns with Alex Dias to the community and meets Dr. Hackett. Coincidence?

Thank you @WINDSOR ….. I was not entirely aware of all of that. Gets one to wondering for sure. IIRC, MP was SG’s driver and ‘watch’. Some might also use the term her ‘muscle’ in case something went ‘sideways’. So yes, don’t disagree others should be under the microscope too.

I guess I shall continue to hope that Mr. Ray and others keep the pressure on and this case in the spotlight. Along with the Rex H LISK case. MOO

 

[Mr.Dandy]

Thank you @WINDSOR ….. I was not entirely aware of all of that. Gets one to wondering for sure. IIRC, MP was SG’s driver and ‘watch’. Some might also use the term her ‘muscle’ in case something went ‘sideways’. So yes, don’t disagree others should be under the microscope too.

I guess I shall continue to hope that Mr. Ray and others keep the pressure on and this case in the spotlight. Along with the Rex H LISK case. MOO

Ok. What is the motive for any of these guys to kill her? Motive is a big deal. So, Hackett gives her something and it kills her? Need to hide the body? MP kills her because she burned him on money? Why now? I mean, maybe it looks good because if all the chaos of the night. What else?

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Ok. What is the motive for any of these guys to kill her? Motive is a big deal. So, Hackett gives her something and it kills her? Need to hide the body? MP kills her because she burned him on money? Why now? I mean, maybe it looks good because if all the chaos of the night. What else?

Respectfully, @Mr.Dandy - I don’t believe that any reference to a motive for anyone that might have ‘killed’ SG was made in the post that I made and referenced above.

I did state in a prior post “IMO it seems an awful lot of individuals let SG down that evening. Sadly. MOO”

I have no idea of exactly what happened that evening to SG unfortunately. But it seems that some that might have further information just might. And IMO officials, authorities, and those that seem to either possibly have information or might have been involved or that do possess other knowledge …… well I will leave it at that.

And I also respectfully disagree as to whether or not motive is always a factor, or a contributing factor large or small in cases such as this. IMO circumstances rather than motive can often factor into what might have occurred or happened or that might cause an individual(s) to take certain actions (or not to take actions). MOO

 

[Mr.Dandy]

Respectfully, @Mr.Dandy - I don’t believe that any reference to a motive for anyone that might have ‘killed’ SG was made in the post that I made and referenced above.

I did state in a prior post “IMO it seems an awful lot of individuals let SG down that evening. Sadly. MOO”

I have no idea of exactly what happened that evening to SG unfortunately. But it seems that some that might have further information just might. And IMO officials, authorities, and those that seem to either possibly have information or might have been involved or that do possess other knowledge …… well I will leave it at that.

And I also respectfully disagree as to whether or not motive is always a factor, or a contributing factor large or small in cases such as this. IMO circumstances rather than motive can often factor into what might have occurred or happened or that might cause an individual(s) to take certain actions (or not to take actions). MOO

Don’t misunderstand. I was just tossing around possible explanations. And you (not you, but people) have to have a reason, right? Even if there’s a thrill kill, sporadic action situation, there’s still a reason. That’s all. If someone killed her, than why? If she died on her own, then LE was right all along.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Don’t misunderstand. I was just tossing around possible explanations. And you (not you, but people) have to have a reason, right? Even if there’s a thrill kill, sporadic action situation, there’s still a reason. That’s all. If someone killed her, than why? If she died on her own, then LE was right all along.

Ok and thank you. Sadly, she might have simply become lost and disillusioned in the elements? But with what is now known it is not at all clear IMO. And with how this evolved, too many unanswered questions to appease many IMO. Me included.

Long ago IIRC in these threads (or maybe also the Rex H. / LISK threads) there was discussion about SG autopsy. And IIUC the cause of death is undetermined? Maybe same for the manner of death? And yet IIUC there is also a question on whether or not SG case and death is considered a closed case or not? IIUC (and IANAL and do not know NJ state law) - it didn’t seem the SG case could be considered closed with those questions unanswered? I can’t recall whether IMO the public has ever gotten a clear answer on any of that.

Where does this leave things? IDK. But as I often add, I am thankful that SG’s late mother, her family, and Mr. John Ray have pushed this as much as and hard as they have. Absent that, it isn’t clear how much if anything might have been done on either Rex H. / LISK case or SG. IMO SG and her family and friends deserve clear annd unequivocal answers on what transpired that evening and the days after. MOO

 

[Mr.Dandy]

Ok and thank you. Sadly, she might have simply become lost and disillusioned in the elements? But with what is now known it is not at all clear IMO. And with how this evolved, too many unanswered questions to appease many IMO. Me included.

Long ago IIRC in these threads (or maybe also the Rex H. / LISK threads) there was discussion about SG autopsy. And IIUC the cause of death is undetermined? Maybe same for the manner of death? And yet IIUC there is also a question on whether or not SG case and death is considered a closed case or not? IIUC (and IANAL and do not know NJ state law) - it didn’t seem the SG case could be considered closed with those questions unanswered? I can’t recall whether IMO the public has ever gotten a clear answer on any of that.

Where does this leave things? IDK. But as I often add, I am thankful that SG’s late mother, her family, and Mr. John Ray have pushed this as much as and hard as they have. Absent that, it isn’t clear how much if anything might have been done on either Rex H. / LISK case or SG. IMO SG and her family and friends deserve clear annd unequivocal answers on what transpired that evening and the days after. MOO

I definitely hope the case is eventually reopened. Someone will have to push for it. It can’t be Shannan’s mother anymore. I hope someone fights on her behalf to have her case looked into again. Like I said before, the news says one thing but the court documents tell a completely different story. That alone should substantiate a decent investigation. I don’t know if it’ll ever happen.

 

[WINDSOR]

The Shannan Gilbert case will be reopened only if there is the political will in Suffolk County. That has not happened for years and I do not see that happening in the future. Sad in my opinion.

I believe there was criminal activity that lead to her death. I find it perplexing there are reality TV shows where Game Wardens are issuing citations for people fishing without proper licenses; yet several of New York State statutes were violated in Oak Beach, related to Illegal Drugs and Sex Trafficking and nobody was even issued a ticket!

 

[james.coff]

Respectfully, @Mr.Dandy - I don’t believe that any reference to a motive for anyone that might have ‘killed’ SG was made in the post that I made and referenced above.

I did state in a prior post “IMO it seems an awful lot of individuals let SG down that evening. Sadly. MOO”

I have no idea of exactly what happened that evening to SG unfortunately. But it seems that some that might have further information just might. And IMO officials, authorities, and those that seem to either possibly have information or might have been involved or that do possess other knowledge …… well I will leave it at that.

And I also respectfully disagree as to whether or not motive is always a factor, or a contributing factor large or small in cases such as this. IMO circumstances rather than motive can often factor into what might have occurred or happened or that might cause an individual(s) to take certain actions (or not to take actions). MOO

I agree so much with you. John Ray recently requested all of the files on her case and was denied due to an open investigation!!! He put in an appeal, it makes no sense to me that they are allowed to keep getting away with withholding info on her case...SHE MATTERS!!
I didn't look at the Gilgo case link because I learned that it is a blog not an official source, so I keep away from those types of sites, but from what Mr, Dandy wrote, it seems like the same description as the two autopsy reports I have

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

I agree so much with you. John Ray recently requested all of the files on her case and was denied due to an open investigation!!! He put in an appeal, it makes no sense to me that they are allowed to keep getting away with withholding info on her case...SHE MATTERS!!
I didn't look at the Gilgo case link because I learned that it is a blog not an official source, so I keep away from those types of sites, but from what Mr, Dandy wrote, it seems like the same description as the two autopsy reports I have

Thank you for the thoughts and support @james.coff …. yes, this is so perplexing.

I am not a theorist…… but it seems IMO there really can only be one reason they are not releasing the file. There is something in it that they don’t want released. What that is isn’t clear. But that in itself if not a reason for withholding it.

And that, if true, is regrettable. How many times has it been the case that the public and others with interest help solve or shed light on a case? (Think e.g. of the Netflix series “The Keepers” or “Dig Deeper - The Disappearance of Birgit Meier”.)

I continue to hope that something ‘breaks loose’ in the SG case as well as the Rex H. LISK GILGO case. There are IMO too many unknowns and possible ‘intersections’ amongst these cases, the homicides, and the grounds where multiple bodies were located. MOO

 

[She-Ra]

I have never thought she died from the elements. It was over 50 degrees then , so how is that even possible?

 

[WINDSOR]

Sherlock H stated "There is something in it that they don’t want released".
From Day one, The Suffolk County Police and County leadership have been keeping everything hidden. It took years for the 911 call to be released to the public, due to the efforts of John Ray.
The SCPD say it is an ongoing investigation, but there are no signs of any kind of investigation process taking place.

So why hold everything away from public scrutiny? Because somebody or some local organization will be tremendously embarrassed if the truth is available to the public. IMO

I also believe JB knows the truth.