Post sentencing discussion

[JudgeJudi]

But there's always a sob story with Oscar isn't there

Here's Trish Taylor, from her book... Oscar, An Accident waiting to happen .
"...Despite being incredibly well off - he was earning millions a year at this stage- he found it very hard to give. He seemed to hold on to everything. He was always saying how much richer everyone else was than he was"

Maybe this is the source of the night-time tears, if you believe that previous prison report of course....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Oscar-An-Accident-Waiting-Happen-ebook/dp/B00NEPC3V2

IIRC She also said in her book that he wouldn't even turn up with a bottle of wine or chocolates when he was coming for dinner.

 

[newone]

IIRC She also said in her book that he wouldn't even turn up with a bottle of wine or chocolates when he was coming for dinner.

who's sorry now......tightwad

 

[JudgeJudi]

Wherever is he going to store at least 7 bags of shopping of one type or another in a cell?

Well only a few of those single cells are empty. He'll probably be allocated a spare cell to store all his goodies. Some occasional furniture might be nice. Hey, it's Mr Special, Oscar Pistorius. Hakuna Matata (Swahili for "no worries")

 

[JudgeJudi]

There was the Kings of Leon incident.

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Oscar-Pistorius-Hero-or-Hooligan-20111103

My first glimpse of Oscar was seeing him all but fall into a group of people and had to be helped up by one of his equally drunk friends. We just looked at one another and shook our heads. Maybe he just looked that drunk because his blades weren’t too stable. As the evening progressed, Peter (my friend’s husband) and Adrian (my fiancé) went off to buy us something to drink. Marilyn and I were rocking away to the fantastic Shadowclub when we were practically shoved off our feet by Oscar. This was no accidental stumble! It was a pure and simple act of arrogance and aggression. When Marilyn (in a firm but extremely non-aggressive manner) told Oscar that his behaviour was rude and unacceptable, she was met with a flurry of verbal abuse! This included being labelled “f…ing lesbians” and a significant amount more.

It's already there - 6th from the top of the list

 

[G.bng]

Wasn't his t-shirt found by the bed? There was no mention of blood on it, so I doubt he was wearing it.

Correct, he wasn't wearing a shirt. I remembered it came up in Stipp's cross and checked my transcript of Stipp's testimony where Roux mentions OP didn't have a shirt on. I think I was confused with what Botha told the press in June 2013, as per one article I still have filed:

Botha went into the garage, where Pistorius, in a bloody shirt and shorts, wearing his prosthetic legs, was sitting on a gym bench, surrounded by training equipment. “His head was in his hands, and he was crying. There was blood on him, but his hands were clean. We said, ‘Did you wash your hands?’ And he said, ‘Yes, because they were full of blood.’ ”

I still recall an officer gave him permission to wash not only his hands but his chest too as the smell of blood was causing him to retch. Could be it is in one of the experts testimonies but whoever's law I only transcribed those of the witnesses!

 

[ColonelMustard]

Seems to me that word should have been redemption and not restoration.

Carl would have said " resurrected ".

 

[4MrsB]

to be fair, we don't know if all of them were allowed to see him

>>>>> a Woolworths grocery bag !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are we to believe the Pistorius family is doing groceries at Woolworths ?????:facepalm:

Very True! However, I can't help but be convinced that at least 3 of them were allowed to visit with Oscar (more likely 4).

His Dad, Henke arrived in his own car and 1/2 hr before visiting hours started. It seems unlikely his Dad would drive out there, not certain he was getting in. Simply dropping off a DVD. (He barely showed his face during trial, so doesn't seem the type to go to this trouble if not certain he'll be allowed in)

Carl & relative he was with (likely his driver as he can't yet drive himself) would likely not have gone to this trouble to arrange driver, walk on crutches all the way to entrance (after just being released from "hospitalization") if not confident he would be allowed in to see Oscar.

Lastly, Aimee & Uncle Arnold drove together in Uncle's car. Very likely would not do that if Henke & Carl were the (2) official guests for that week. I have to believe at least either Aimee or Uncle A was planning to visit. I think very likely both did after traveling out there and arriving all at the same time.

The Pistorius family can do the math. 1 + 1 = 2. And they know the "rules" for Class B prisoners. They just don't seem to ever realize that "the rules" apply to them. (And rightly so, because they certainly never seem to, do they?) IMO

 

[JudgeJudi]

City Press understands that OP’s financial situation is so dire that Advocates Barry Roux and Kenny Oldwage, and attorney Brian Webber have been representing him free of charge for at least the past two months.

“A source close to the Pistorius family said his legal bill now stands at R17.5 million ($US 1,598,443) and about R10 million ($US 913,705) is still outstanding”.

So are we to infer from this that OP himself has paid R7 million ($$US 639,634)?

OP, who was estimated to earn approx. R20 million ($US 1,827,527) a year before the London Olympics, now has no more money, so the bill has been sent to Uncle Arnold. “A source close to the legal team says Arnold Pistorius has refused to cover the outstanding amount, believing his nephew should be responsible for the bill”.

Unless Arnold has given a written undertaking to pay, I don’t understand how anyone could be looking to him for payment.

Fair enough, if the family doesn’t want to pay it, that’s just fine. If that's the case, then I hope they don’t expect the legal team to work pro bono in the event of an appeal. It cuts both ways. If Roux et al have been working on the case pro bono for the last two months, Arnold would know it because Brian Webber would have discussed it with Roux and the result of that discussion passed on to OP and Arnold.

“City Press understands there was tension between Roux and Arnold Pistorius, who tried to influence the direction of the case but was told to butt out. A source close to the legal team said his opinion was not welcome, given his refusal to settle outstanding fees".

What I found so gross is that Arnold tried to influence the direction of the case. Just who does he think he is. He is not the client. It is not his decision to make as to how Roux chooses to run it. That’s a matter strictly for OP, Roux, Oldwage and Webber to decide. If OP had been diagnosed with a mental problem that precluded him from making decisions, that would be different, but that is not the case. Arnold thinks he can always run the show, both inside and outside the courtroom. Not this time Buster.

I believe that a lot of what’s happened with this trial and the vitriol directed at OP and the family in particular can firmly be laid at the foot of Arnold himself. “As you sow, so shall you reap”.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscars-r17-5million-legal-headache/

 

[ColonelMustard]

I've never thought she discovered something earth-shattering, or anything like that. I think it's most likely that she somehow caught him cheating, and things went from there. Or something she said set him off - we know that he'd had a bad day, so it could have been something quite trivial.

Whatever it was, he went into one of his temper tantrums, shot in a rage, and then yes, realised in an instant that his best chance of saving his arse was making sure she didn't survive.

For whatever reason, I never seriously considered a much earlier suggestion, here, that the impetus for everything was his insistence that they have sex.

With June's revelation that they had not had sex (and his long conversation with Babyshoes just before he got home, which could have created or instigated his insistence?), perhaps it is a plausible motive.

I don't know many straight American men

1. Would date a woman for 4 months and not sleep with her. On the 3rd or 4th date, at the latest for many i know or goodbye girlfriend.

2. Would agree to, be able to, or want to sleep in the same bed with a woman and not sleep with her.

 

[JudgeJudi]

One of the protesters outside court said, ""He screams like a girl, he cries like a baby but he shoots like a soldier".

Pretty well sums it up.

 

[4MrsB]

One of the protesters outside court said, ""He screams like a girl, he cries like a baby but he shoots like a soldier".

Pretty well sums it up.

Rather clever!

 

[KING Charles]

Woolworth in S.A. Is very similar to U.K. Marks and Spencer.

 

[ColonelMustard]

The Millpark principal medical officer, Anchen Laubscher, said of Pistorius: "He is fine. Everything can be repaired *surgically. His brain is functioning normally. He will soon be discharged and taken home to make a full recovery."

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/feb/22/oscar-pistorius-recovers-from-boating-accident

As far as I'm aware, no one has ever said he suffered a personality change after the accident due to his injuries, ie, he didn't turn into a reckless trigger-happy hot head afterwards. Are you looking for another reason why he was bad tempered and aggressive, other than that was just his personality?

But would they? I imagine they would be loathe to do anything that might negatively effect his career, which was years before he killed Reeva. And that's even before Uncle Arnold might have pledged 25 million dollars for a new research wing of their hospital.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I was watching CNN this morning and they repeated a few clips after the sentence was handed down. Our favourite Pistorian, Kelly Phelps, said words to the effect, “It was a fair sentence, right down the middle, even though it was at the harsher end of the scale”.

What world does this woman live in.

 

[ColonelMustard]

BIB IMO could be reasonably possibly true. Hypothetically, has Team OP hidden this fact to ensure his sporting career and their money making potential remain intact? Could Team OP be negligent for not having OP medically examined for anger/impulse changes post head injury?

It was clear to those around him that, in his daily life, he was getting more out of control with anger and his use a gun before he shot RS to death and 'blew her brains out' that night.

In OP's recovery from the boating accident, did Team OP influence and gain medical cooperation, to ensure that a diagnosis of brain injury remain hidden from the public so as not to impact OP's sporting career? Team OP PR machine ensured that OP was seen publicly as having made a 'miracle' recovery, again an 'outstanding' achiever, etc, to positively influence his public profile and ensure their income earning capacity.

However, it is well known in medical circles that brain injury can leave humans prone to anger/impulse problems and sleep difficulties. [Michael Hutchence, high public profile as Inxs front singer, is one example: his colleagues noticed he had problems with anger and impulse control after sustaining a head injury, but the public was not aware of this until after his death].

Has the politically influential SA Team OP PR machine overlooked in its quest to maintain OP's Olympic glory/fame/money for South Africa, the fact that the man, OP, was struggling with anger/impulse issues which threatened the the safety and well-being of other people?

The information about OP's anger/impulse issues has come into the public domain despite the substantial effort of Team OP PR machine to squash this information, maintain damage control, influence charges to be dropped, cases dismissed, etc. Has Team OP been negligent?

Do we hold the people around celebrities/sports stars, etc accountable?

All in my opinion only.

I concur with connection between traumatic brain injury and anger. Have heard it before, read Journals on it before, and just talked with a woman , yesterday! , whose husband has TBI and became angry afterward. Also, loss of impulse control.

Could this account for the diametrically opposed views of OPs anger and volative nature between recent girlfriends and those from longer ago?

 

[Estelle]

For whatever reason, I never seriously considered a much earlier suggestion, here, that the impetus for everything was his insistence that they have sex.

With June's revelation that they had not had sex (and his long conversation with Babyshoes just before he got home, which could have created or instigated his insistence?), perhaps it is a plausible motive.

I don't know many straight American men

1. Would date a woman for 4 months and not sleep with her. On the 3rd or 4th date, at the latest for many i know or goodbye girlfriend.

2. Would agree to, be able to, or want to sleep in the same bed with a woman and not sleep with her.

The fact that OP

1. 6pm phoned Jenna Edkins (an old or current casual sex partner) just before he saw Reeva that night
2. 6.30pm Alex Pilakoutas claimed in his statement in the bail application that he had been on the phone with OP
3. about 7pm OP claimed he went upstairs, showered, changed and viewed
4. 7.30pm Reeva and OP ate her chicken vegetable stir fry which would not have taken long to cook
4. about 8pm OP communicated with Graham Binge for some time as stated by Binge in the bail statement.

Please correct this timeline if you can improve it.

If this timeline is approximately correct, it appears to me that OP was in a bad mood, ignoring Reeva and could have been sexually frustrated.

If Reeva did have sex with OP on 11 Jan 2013 (as that tweet implies), or even twice at some stage, it could be that she had been withholding it from him since (due to her finding out about other women in the meantime) hence his use of and neglecting her that night.

Reeva could have confronted him and asked him why he had been ignoring her all night so he demanded sex with her before she went home but she refused as she felt he was not committed to her so he chased her around the house and prevented her going home. Many women withhold sex from a partner if they do not feel that they are committed to them. I think Reeva wanted love not just sex.

So could OP's possible sexual frustration have contributed to what followed?

 

[ColonelMustard]

I'd totally forgotten about old Christo Menalaou,perhaps worth looking back again at what he heard on the morning of the 14th

AT EIGHT minutes past three on the morning of Valentine’s Day Christo Menelaou woke with a start. He’d heard what sounded like three thunderclaps.

At his home in the Silver Woods Estate east of Pretoria he lay in bed waiting for the rain to start.

Almost an hour later he went to the bathroom.

When he opened the window and looked outside he couldn’t believe his eyes. His window looks out onto an empty plot and Olympic and Paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius’ house.

The two men are close friends.

“His house used to be in pitch darkness at night, except for one light that was always on,” Christo (34) says. But that night all the lights were on and there were blue and red lights flashing outside the house.

So 3 "thunderclaps" at 3.08 and nothing else, no shouting/screaming/crying, no other set of sound's, strange.

CARICE:

I remember Carice testified to what she heard before she talked to her dad, then talking with her dad, then what went on she after they went to OP's house.

(Aside: When she mentioned who they encountered outside, I think the population of the entire world collectively and simultaneously said, "Frank?! Who's Frank?!" ha!)

Anyway, someone went back over with her again what had happened BEFORE she talk with her dad - and - what SHE heard from blocks away.

As her testimony ended for good and she stepped down, her voice had trailed off after the last thing she said, which was, "...and I wondered what had happened to the lady."

That really bothered me because she had testified twice that the ONLY thing she heard was Oscar crying. If the ONLY thing she heard was OSCAR crying, how did she know at that point in time she was describing that any lady WAS involved?

No one followed up with her then and I don't recall anyone bringing that up at the time on here.

Does anyone remember that and thought it was odd?

 

[ColonelMustard]

From the a.m. article
"But Pistorius – who was estimated to earn about R20 million a year before the 2012 London Olympics – has no more money, so the bill has been sent to his uncle."

I wonder . .

. . . . if we just assume 30-35 million Rand in 2011/2012. . . . where has all the money gone ????

. . . . are we seeing the PR machine again here ???

P.S. Not sure, but I think it was only one horse he co-owned with someone else

I remember reading somewhere that the problem with the $$ was that Uncle Arnold told Roux he would cover whatever OP couldn't pay AFTER Roux had told them the trial would last 6 weeks, max.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Wherever is he going to store at least 7 bags of shopping of one type or another in a cell?

He may barter most of it away immediately for special privileges.

If REALLY ASAP, it greased the way for 5 visitors vs 2!!

 

[Estelle]

CARICE:

I remember Carice testified to what she heard before she talked to her dad, then talking with her dad, then what went on she after they went to OP's house.

(Aside: When she mentioned who they encountered outside, I think the population of the entire world collectively and simultaneously said, "Frank?! Who's Frank?!" ha!)

Anyway, someone went back over with her again what had happened BEFORE she talk with her dad - and - what SHE heard from blocks away.

As her testimony ended for good and she stepped down, her voice had trailed off after the last thing she said, which was, "...and I wondered what had happened to the lady."

That really bothered me because she had testified twice that the ONLY thing she heard was Oscar crying. If the ONLY thing she heard was OSCAR crying, how did she know at that point in time she was describing that any lady WAS involved?

No one followed up with her then and I don't recall anyone bringing that up at the time on here.

Does anyone remember that and thought it was odd?

Yes it also thought it odd and thought to myself that Carice had heard more than she was letting on. She had probably heard Reeva's voice.