Post Verdict -Working Out The Unresolved Questions

[cady]

Can someone show me a link to the best place for all of the evidence photos? thanks

 

[Tuba]

When the oath is violated & lies are asserted as truth, the outrage should be addressed in open court. I fully agree, starporter. There have been such incidents and some of them have been dealt with in chambers, from what we can judge. Far better to call the witness out on false testimony and if further inquiry is necessary, to conduct it publicly.
That exposure would be healthy for the proceedings in that the embarrassment & defeat would discourage lies from the stand. Even seeming to ignore false statements implies permissiveness toward them and creates a lax atmosphere where others than the judge grasp at control.

 

[geevee]

Can someone show me a link to the best place for all of the evidence photos? thanks

No site seems to have all of them, HLN has quite a few:

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/01/03/jodi-arias-evidence-photos-nancy-grace-mysteries-day-4

There are quite a few pics here:

http://jessicaknight82.wordpress.co...-alexander-murder-trial-warning-very-graphic/

Tawnidilly has a Photo Bucket album but last time I checked it was made private. I have an album that I post pics to WS from, some have colors changed and labels on them, but plenty are untouched screen shots:

http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/g...&page=1&_suid=1378312639828008047408441442305

 

[Chanler]

BBM

Hiya starporter and welcome to the world of unresolved questions.

I'm one of those who doesn't believe the nudies were taken the day she killed Travis. Considering there were two camera memory cards found (the blue one and the Sony card) it means not only did she intend to leave the camera (albeit with deleted pictures) but she also threw the blue card into the wash, and we have zero testimony on that blue card...that does not fit in Travis' camera...but was found in the washer (pic with evidence marker on page 1, post 3 of this thread).

I have to set aside what does not make sense with the Big Picture - and what makes the least amount of sense is that we know they were arguing on and off since she left Mesa, had a huge fight on May 26th, yet 9 days later he's asking her into his bed and taking nudies like it's old times? No, I do not think so.

I think the nudies were on the blue camera card, and she transferred those that day onto that card and that's how they got the June 4th date and time stamp. Remember, Travis never called or answered his phone after 12:13 p.m., so we have no evidence that he was alive at 1:45 or 5:22 when the shower pics began.

She wasn't a professional photographer but she did know her way around cameras, photos and editing software, and she's mighty crafty when she has a plan.

Sorry, didn't mean to write a book, but Flores had it so right early on...'It's the details.' lol

Hi, Geevee. Thanks for your detailed note, but I don't quite understand: What was her plan? She tossed the cameras and the cards into the washer to be destroyed. And it's obvious from the interrogation videos that she doesn't even suspect that their contents might have been recovered. To me, seduction was her best and only card to get into Travis' home and it fits her nature to have a final fling knowing that she will be killing him later.

I've always thought that Jodi prepared for this execution like a Samurai warrior; down to the early preparations, the weapons and the Psycho shower setting. Essentially, she didn't think that she was committing an act of hatred, but of justice. To have sex with her victim one last time might seem utterly perverse but to her, it was the flip side of her very personal interpretation of the Law of Attraction.

 

[Liebchenmutti]

Hi, Geevee. Thanks for your detailed note, but I don't quite understand: What was her plan? She tossed the cameras and the cards into the washer to be destroyed. And it's obvious from the interrogation videos that she doesn't even suspect that their contents might have been recovered. To me, seduction was her best and only card to get into Travis' home and it fits her nature to have a final fling knowing that she will be killing him later.

I've always thought that Jodi prepared for this execution like a Samurai warrior; down to the early preparations, the weapons and the Psycho shower setting. Essentially, she didn't think that she was committing an act of hatred, but of justice. To have sex with her victim one last time might seem utterly perverse but to her, it was the flip side of her very personal interpretation of the Law of Attraction.

ITA! People discuss how Jodi had such a great plan, but if you look at it, it's a very bad plan.

She wanted to kill Travis without being detected in AZ. It was stupid to borrow 2 gas cans "for a roadtrip to MESA" from an ex boyfriend who will testify to that. It's stupid to buy a gas can in Salinas and KEEP THE RECIEPT and PUT IT ON YOUR CREDIT CARD. It's stupid to have 3 separate gas transactions at 2 gas stations proving that you have 3 gas cans.

It was stupid to take pictures of yourself and Travis and not take the camera & memory card with you. It was BEYOND stupid to stage a burglary of an odd, small caliber gun IN THE HOUSE YOU LIVE IN and then use the weapon to use on Travis.

It was stupid to lie about renting a car in Redding and blame it on Priceline, when you turn around and use Priceline to buy airline tickets.

It was stupid to make up 5+ stories about a broken/cut finger when you are trying to hide the fact that you cut it killing Travis.

Pretending to "lose your charger" and having your phone off during the times you are proved to be in AZ--stupid.

The pedophilia story: stupid, and even dumber to tell Laviolette that the pics were on the computer, then change your story.

Stupid, Stupid, Stupid to tell each of your experts DIFFERENT STORIES of the "domestic violence" you claimed to suffer. Bad idea to tell one woman that the abuse was almost constant, only to get on the stand with only 4 episodes.

Stupid to show up at the memorial service and act like you are the hostess.
Stupid to not realize that all of Travis' friends knew immediately that it was YOU!
Stupid to think you are smarter than everyone else.

Yes--Jodi had a plan. It was stupid, and she was caught immediately. She didn't even come close to getting away with it.

About the sex on the murder day: Jodi's power over Travis was her unfortunate-looking hoo-ha. She was sexually aggressive and she got what she wanted by being wild and crazy in bed. Travis wasn't strong about keeping her out of his bed--even when he knew she was disturbed, stalking him and scaring him. I think that she planned the murder but also gave Travis one last chance to do what she wanted--probably moving in with him, getting back together, going to Cancun--who knows. I think that after they had a long sex session with photos, he still rejected her and that's what sparked that homicidal rage in Jodi. Jodi is a narcissist, and when you reject people like that, they will react as if fighting for thier lives.

Part of her total character assasination on Travis was probably still related to that last rejection. She was absolutely obsessed with Travis and when she found out for sure that he had no desire to ever see her again or marry her or whatever it was she wanted, she went blind with rage.

 

[Chanler]

ITA! People discuss how Jodi had such a great plan, but if you look at it, it's a very bad plan.

She wanted to kill Travis without being detected in AZ. It was stupid to borrow 2 gas cans "for a roadtrip to MESA" from an ex boyfriend who will testify to that. It's stupid to buy a gas can in Salinas and KEEP THE RECIEPT and PUT IT ON YOUR CREDIT CARD. It's stupid to have 3 separate gas transactions at 2 gas stations proving that you have 3 gas cans.

It was stupid to take pictures of yourself and Travis and not take the camera & memory card with you. It was BEYOND stupid to stage a burglary of an odd, small caliber gun IN THE HOUSE YOU LIVE IN and then use the weapon to use on Travis.

It was stupid to lie about renting a car in Redding and blame it on Priceline, when you turn around and use Priceline to buy airline tickets.

It was stupid to make up 5+ stories about a broken/cut finger when you are trying to hide the fact that you cut it killing Travis.

Pretending to "lose your charger" and having your phone off during the times you are proved to be in AZ--stupid.

The pedophilia story: stupid, and even dumber to tell Laviolette that the pics were on the computer, then change your story.

Stupid, Stupid, Stupid to tell each of your experts DIFFERENT STORIES of the "domestic violence" you claimed to suffer. Bad idea to tell one woman that the abuse was almost constant, only to get on the stand with only 4 episodes.

Stupid to show up at the memorial service and act like you are the hostess.
Stupid to not realize that all of Travis' friends knew immediately that it was YOU!
Stupid to think you are smarter than everyone else.

Yes--Jodi had a plan. It was stupid, and she was caught immediately. She didn't even come close to getting away with it.

About the sex on the murder day: Jodi's power over Travis was her unfortunate-looking hoo-ha. She was sexually aggressive and she got what she wanted by being wild and crazy in bed. Travis wasn't strong about keeping her out of his bed--even when he knew she was disturbed, stalking him and scaring him. I think that she planned the murder but also gave Travis one last chance to do what she wanted--probably moving in with him, getting back together, going to Cancun--who knows. I think that after they had a long sex session with photos, he still rejected her and that's what sparked that homicidal rage in Jodi. Jodi is a narcissist, and when you reject people like that, they will react as if fighting for thier lives.

Part of her total character assasination on Travis was probably still related to that last rejection. She was absolutely obsessed with Travis and when she found out for sure that he had no desire to ever see her again or marry her or whatever it was she wanted, she went blind with rage.

Hi, Liebchenmutti; thanks for a fine post. Yes, the plan was hopelessly faulty. My point was that the crime was intricately planned; methodically, if very inadequately laid out. Of course, Jodi was already suspect number one in capital letters: She was singled out in the 911 call by the friends who found him.

I think that her entire trip was designed to kill him, not offer him last chances. Shooting someone while they're naked and defenseless in a shower does not indicate the sudden consummation of rage. It was only when Travis emerged from the shower badly wounded but still alive that Jodi went into the total panic and overkill that followed, including the stupid, stupid, stupid cleanup that followed.

 

[Liebchenmutti]

Hi, Liebchenmutti; thanks for a fine post. Yes, the plan was hopelessly faulty. My point was that the crime was intricately planned; methodically, if very inadequately laid out. Of course, Jodi was already suspect number one in capital letters: She was singled out in the 911 call by the friends who found him.

I think that her entire trip was designed to kill him, not offer him last chances. Shooting someone while they're naked and defenseless in a shower does not indicate the sudden consummation of rage. It was only when Travis emerged from the shower badly wounded but still alive that Jodi went into the total panic and overkill that followed, including the stupid, stupid, stupid cleanup that followed.

I have to respectfully disagree! :loveyou:

I will come back and provide some examples when my DH gets home & can keep my 3 kids at bay!:floorlaugh:

I know of a few cases of domestic homicide/intimate partner homicide that include sex before the murder--and they are premeditated murders, too.

I agree that Jodi was full of homicidal rage probably starting when she moved back to Yreka from Mesa as a total failure--she couldn't manipulate Travis into closing the deal with an engagement or at least telling her to move in. I'm sure it was devastating for her to have to leave that vast social life she had courtesy of Travis--she must have felt that this major loss was all Travis' fault, too.

It's clear that she started the murder plan because she was suddenly not influencing Travis, and her "awesome girlfriend" persona was shot when she started allowing her rage and hatred show through that angel faced Mormon girl act. She knew that Travis found out the truth--she's hideous inside and has nothing but sex to offer--her soul is dark.

I believe that she went there intending to have sex--hence the Brazilian bikini wax, braids, etc. Why else would she stop off at a salon along her murder trip? She took those 2 photos in her rental car showing off the makeup job and dark hair.

She felt powerful over Travis in bed. I think she's a very perverse individual and I think that she got a thrill in having sex KNOWING THAT SHE WAS GOING TO SLAUGHTER TRAVIS. It's the ultimate "I got revenge" type of thing.

I think that's why she took the shower pics--they were not good photographs. They were meant to ensure Travis was helpless. And I think that she enjoyed the suspense right before the attack that she knew was coming--and Travis was oblivious to .

And she stabbed him first--that's where all the blood in the sink came from. She stabbed him in a frenzy & followed him as he tried to escape down the hallway, finally slicing his throat. The head wound did not bleed--so he was dead when he was shot.

The last two pictures she took of Travis are haunting to me--his expression is disturbing, like he finally sensed the mission of Jodi's visit & her utter evilness.

I also think the sex was important to Jodi because she was showing all those prudish Mormon girls that SHE owned Travis' sexuality, and that she controlled him through sex. I believe that Jodi still wanted Travis, but only on her terms. I think that Travis could have postponed his murder if he had given in to Jodi that day--but eventually she would have killed him the minute the rejection happened.

Anyhoo--just my opinion!! I love discussing this case--it's got so many fascinating psychological aspects to it.

 

[cady]

Since I started to pay attention to the trial (around the time CMJA took the stand) I did a bit of sleuthing about the whole MORMON angle. I think that whoever it was that initially introduced her to PPL was probably a person of the Mormon persuasion. Both groups caught her interest......she was in dire straits financially and PPL was a get-rich-quick solution to her dilemma.......she also was always searching for or dabbling in various "philosophies" by which she could define herself. (she feels the need to cite BOOKS as be all and end all authorities.) The Book of Mormon fit that bill, temporarily. And very early in her relationship with Travis, it served as her weapon. We all know the story..
But the Mormon connection to his murder really hasn't been bantered about that much, probably because of sensitivity toward his family...JMO JMO JMO! really, I think that to MAXIMIZE his horror, and suffering, she pre-planned the sexcapade to happen just prior to his death, so that there could be NO repentance by him and thus, in his mind, the Ultimate Heaven that he believed in and strove to inherit..expected to........would not be his. To him, that was more cruel than any physical infliction of pain that he had to endure. JMO JMO

 

[Liebchenmutti]

Since I started to pay attention to the trial (around the time CMJA took the stand) I did a bit of sleuthing about the whole MORMON angle. I think that whoever it was that initially introduced her to PPL was probably a person of the Mormon persuasion. Both groups caught her interest......she was in dire straits financially and PPL was a get-rich-quick solution to her dilemma.......she also was always searching for or dabbling in various "philosophies" by which she could define herself. (she feels the need to cite BOOKS as be all and end all authorities.) The Book of Mormon fit that bill, temporarily. And very early in her relationship with Travis, it served as her weapon. We all know the story..
But the Mormon connection to his murder really hasn't been bantered about that much, probably because of sensitivity toward his family...JMO JMO JMO! really, I think that to MAXIMIZE his horror, and suffering, she pre-planned the sexcapade to happen just prior to his death, so that there could be NO repentance by him and thus, in his mind, the Ultimate Heaven that he believed in and strove to inherit..expected to........would not be his. To him, that was more cruel than any physical infliction of pain that he had to endure. JMO JMO

ITA! I am not knowledgeable about Mormonism--but I think that Jodi wanted to annihilate Travis SPIRITUALLY as well as physically. She's an abuser--and abusers frequently use religion & spirituality to control or manipulate or punish the object of their abuse.

I've read other posts referring to the fact that Travis would have no opportunity to repent for the sexual relationship & the last sexual act. It adds yet another layer to the torture murder Jodi perpetrated. I also believe Jodi was talking to Travis while she murdered him--perhaps pointing out that he failed as a "good Mormon"--she would have a strong interest in this subject, since Travis let her know that he felt guilty about their sexual relationship & the fact that he wanted a "good" Mormon girl--something she could NEVER BE.

Good post!

 

[Tuba]

Both the public and the justice system are well served when high interest in trials is sustained. We are the peers who supply jurors for trial, we are the citizens who either support or reject the way our fellows are given their due, we are the voters behind the legislators and the judges who man this arm of government. The system must be guided by what is right and what is fair.

One essential means of sustaining this public interest is to furnish us the documentation necessary to trying a case, however this be accomplished, whether by directly issuing pertinent non-privileged information from the halls of justice or by making that information available to a vigilant, conscientious media curious on its own behalf and on our behalf. Until we see the motions and objections and responses from this penalty re-trial, I will be in the corner sucking my thumb, dumbed down by a media that has lost the plot & is on to the next susceptible target for journalistic sensationalism.

 

[Sulamith]

ITA! I am not knowledgeable about Mormonism--but I think that Jodi wanted to annihilate Travis SPIRITUALLY as well as physically. She's an abuser--and abusers frequently use religion & spirituality to control or manipulate or punish the object of their abuse.

I've read other posts referring to the fact that Travis would have no opportunity to repent for the sexual relationship & the last sexual act. It adds yet another layer to the torture murder Jodi perpetrated. I also believe Jodi was talking to Travis while she murdered him--perhaps pointing out that he failed as a "good Mormon"--she would have a strong interest in this subject, since Travis let her know that he felt guilty about their sexual relationship & the fact that he wanted a "good" Mormon girl--something she could NEVER BE.

Good post!

I am knowledgeable about Mormonism. There is no way that JA could annihilate TA "spiritually". She does not have that power. Do you guys remember Deanna Reid's testimony? She said that both her and TA's temple recommend was taken away. Their bishops had the power to deny them the Celestial Kingdom, not JA. In the LDS church, everybody gets a chance (after death) to get to the highest kingdom of heaven (Celestial). Look up their rite of baptism for the dead. TA has the opportunity of being sealed to a woman in the eternities. I do not know if he wanted a "good" Mormon girl or not. But he had Deanna Reid, Mimi Hall, Linda Ballard Ross and they did not want him. TA will be given a chance to marry in the after life, according to the LDS.

 

[mjkins]

I am knowledgeable about Mormonism. There is no way that JA could annihilate TA "spiritually". She does not have that power. Do you guys remember Deanna Reid's testimony? She said that both her and TA's temple recommend was taken away. Their bishops had the power to deny them the Celestial Kingdom, not JA. In the LDS church, everybody gets a chance (after death) to get to the highest kingdom of heaven (Celestial). Look up their rite of baptism for the dead. TA has the opportunity of being sealed to a woman in the eternities. I do not know if he wanted a "good" Mormon girl or not. But he had Deanna Reid, Mimi Hall, Linda Ballard Ross and they did not want him. TA will be given a chance to marry in the after life, according to the LDS.

Very, very comforting to know this, Thank You! I hope that Travis went to the next life in peace and this confirms it for me.

 

[Tuba]

According to Exposed, it was Travis who balked at marriage to Deanna when she pressed for it. Then they examined what they were doing, confessed to their bishops and began anew without intimacy.

 

[MeeBee]

According to Exposed, it was Travis who balked at marriage to Deanna when she pressed for it. Then they examined what they were doing, confessed to their bishops and began anew without intimacy.

Right. Deanna was ready to settle down and marry and Travis was not. So she ended the relationship.

 

[Liebchenmutti]

Both the public and the justice system are well served when high interest in trials is sustained. We are the peers who supply jurors for trial, we are the citizens who either support or reject the way our fellows are given their due, we are the voters behind the legislators and the judges who man this arm of government. The system must be guided by what is right and what is fair.

One essential means of sustaining this public interest is to furnish us the documentation necessary to trying a case, however this be accomplished, whether by directly issuing pertinent non-privileged information from the halls of justice or by making that information available to a vigilant, conscientious media curious on its own behalf and on our behalf. Until we see the motions and objections and responses from this penalty re-trial, I will be in the corner sucking my thumb, dumbed down by a media that has lost the plot & is on to the next susceptible target for journalistic sensationalism.

Excellent post! I get so angry when Nurmi & media employees like Michael Kiefer denigrate the people who are interested in a trial. They call it a "circus" and accuse the interested public of being part of a "mob."

Just as Juan referenced in his closing, every death diminishes [us]...the bell tolls for you and me. I happen to care about my fellow human beings, and the law is in place to ensure that people who don't value human life will be eliminated from our midst and held in a collection of other people who cannot follow basic rules of society.

I am a huge fan of the "live streaming" coverage of trials as opposed to getting watered-down reports from a media representative. Michel Kiefer is so biased towards Jodi Arias that he has embarrassed himself professionally. He also hates Juan Martinez. And he's assigned to "reporting" on the Arias trial saga. Doesn't anyone see the absurdity of that?

 

[Liebchenmutti]

I am knowledgeable about Mormonism. There is no way that JA could annihilate TA "spiritually". She does not have that power. Do you guys remember Deanna Reid's testimony? She said that both her and TA's temple recommend was taken away. Their bishops had the power to deny them the Celestial Kingdom, not JA. In the LDS church, everybody gets a chance (after death) to get to the highest kingdom of heaven (Celestial). Look up their rite of baptism for the dead. TA has the opportunity of being sealed to a woman in the eternities. I do not know if he wanted a "good" Mormon girl or not. But he had Deanna Reid, Mimi Hall, Linda Ballard Ross and they did not want him. TA will be given a chance to marry in the after life, according to the LDS.

If bishops have the power to keep people from the Celestial Kingdom, why is repentance after death allowed? Wouldn't every person who was denied the Celestial Kingdom by a bishop just need to wait until death to get there? A little confusing.

I didn't mean that JA had any power over Travis' soul--I meant that the last thing that Travis did on earth was have sex with Jodi--he was struggling with that issue, and he wanted to find a woman to marry. Being murdered and left naked with photographic evidence of the last sexual encounter is debasing and degrading--and that is what Jodi meant to do.

 

[Augustgurl]

I think what I dislike most about this creature is her intense hatred and desire to " win" with her words. I agree with all who think the physical murdering of Travis was equal to the shame and emotional pain she wanted to inflict on him. I also agree and am certain she had a motive in purposely having sex with him before his planned slaughter. I think she taunted him all the way through to his last breath. And as the previous poster suggested thoroughly relished his agony. It wouldn't be enough for her to just show up at his door and shoot him and he dies. Quickly. No, she wanted to drag him ( literally ) through an emotional wringer as he died. KNOWING how much his faith meant to him, even if he was struggling with being human. I also think she had to be the " last" woman he would ever have on this earth. That was important to her that she " win" that as well. That Travis never got the healthy mormon marriage he had as a goal. That's why I HATE this woman. Yes, hate her. The jury got the first part so right. Why they couldnt agree on death is beyond me. This went beyond just a crime of passion / jealousy type murder. This was unusually cruel and exactly what a death penalty is an option rather just life in prison. She loves doing the same verbal abuse in court and on TV. She drags Juan, her own attys, strangers and anyone else she feels like into her mud slinging. She is ALL about hurting people and she has the total IM A VICTIM mentality. Godspeed to final justice to Travis.

 

[Tuba]

Is the totally deceitful phone call Arias made to Det. Flores, inquiring about the circs. of Travis's death available?

 

[Liebchenmutti]

Is the totally deceitful phone call Arias made to Det. Flores, inquiring about the circs. of Travis's death available?

Have you seen "CroakerQueen 123" on You Tube? She posts the trials there & I know it was played in court--I have no idea which day, though.

Maybe someone has compiled the phone calls along with the police interrogations somewhere?

 

[geevee]

The one where Det. Flores calls her back is linked here and the article has a transcript:

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/regio...-police-offering-to-help-in-their-murder-case

I don't know if I've heard the recording of her initial call to him.