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[LikeAHunter]

So bitrollf killed 3 people one winter in the early 90's then gave up killing for a normal life? And the fact that he lives right down the road from the Manorville dump site is only coincidence...he takes out his violent urges to kill on the piggies in his backyard?

I agree, LL, that it's mighty suspicious that we have a "Manorville Butcher" and a Manorville (pig) butcher!! But, at this point, I'm personally not ready to make that conclusion that JB is responsible for the Manorville victims because the MOs are so different.

I also think it's possible--possible, not probable--that he did substitute family life for killing. It's not completely unheard of in the SK world.

 

[marie-chantal]

I don't recall ever reading a dollar amount. Possible I missed that, though. Do you have a link to that info?

IIRC, it was Melissa who deposited 900 dollars into her account. I don't think we've ever heard about a specific amount deposited by Maureen.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Any why should lie? A friendship takes two parties. With one half deceased only Amanda can verify. If your not willing to accept Rita's daughter's statement as a fact then you can't consider anything any of the families said. Sorry but it is an established fact to me or Amanda wouldn't have said it.

Well, I don't know that the person who typed that topix post WAS actually Rita's daughter. Even if it was her, we can't verify it as being true. Like you, I tend to believe it, but I always try to qualify that topix post by stating what I know to be fact, that someone posting as Rita's daughter claimed to be friends with Melissa.

 

[LindsayLohan6]

Well, I don't know that the person who typed that topix post WAS actually Rita's daughter. Even if it was her, we can't verify it as being true. Like you, I tend to believe it, but I always try to qualify that topix post by stating what I know to be fact, that someone posting as Rita's daughter claimed to be friends with Melissa.

It wasnt a topix post! It was a comment on the LIPress article from her personal facebook account.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

It wasnt a topix post! It was a comment on the LIPress article from her personal facebook account.

What I originally saw was a topix post. But I found the PIPress post you are referring to, and you're absolutely right, it came from her facebook page. So, I'm prepared to say that Rita's daughter claims to have been friends with Melissa...that's as far as you're going to get me to go.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I agree, LL, that it's mighty suspicious that we have a "Manorville Butcher" and a Manorville (pig) butcher!! But, at this point, I'm personally not ready to make that conclusion that JB is responsible for the Manorville victims because the MOs are so different.

I also think it's possible--possible, not probable--that he did substitute family life for killing. It's not completely unheard of in the SK world.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Can you clarify?

 

[LikeAHunter]

[/B]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Can you clarify?

Sure, but I'll have to do it later when I have more time. I was reviewing Vronsky a few weeks ago and he talks about SKs who just stop killing. I'll grab the book tonight and pull out some info/quotes.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Sure, but I'll have to do it later when I have more time. I was reviewing Vronsky a few weeks ago and he talks about SKs who just stop killing. I'll grab the book tonight and pull out some info/quotes.

I'm interested to read what you find. No hurry, though.

 

[Emre E]

Who’s LISK?

Foreword: Boys In Quantico, on the off chance you may want to make use of the below, I have to remind you that it’s not free. You have to pay. Three college funds. For Aidan, Caitlin and Lily, and by college I mean college, Ivy League.

LISK. The killer(s) who murdered at least 10 people. Yes, Mr. Spota, 10 not 4.

Who is he?

He is Hannibal Lecter. The extremely intelligent necrophiliac white man who sadistically murders his victims in agony. Hannibal is a “construction worker” who also happens to be the ultimate untraceable computer genius. Fresh out of a movie.

Victimology. A fancy word that makes you get paid around 100K, if you use often in certain parts of the state of Virginia.

Let’s look at Maureen.
http://image1.findagrave.com/photos250/photos/2011/100/64693289_130254909569.jpg

Why is she a victim? What makes her special?

The answer is; she’s a pretty white gal.

Just like Melissa
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/Maverick1862/serials/MelissaBarthelemy2.jpg

Megan
http://ak-cache.legacy.com/legacy/I...otos/00b99029-13fc-4b9c-a86f-c3dc52ca1797.jpg

and Amber
http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/de...t_width/hash/5a/78/Amber_49.jpg?itok=ofLkFtmP

and of course Jessica
http://archive.longislandpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Taylor_Jessica_enlarged.jpg

Yes, Jessica, the girl whose headless torso was found in Manorville. Warming up Mr. Spota?

Hannibal picked those beautiful girls from the Craigslist website and killed them and dumped their bodies wrapped in burlap on Gilgo, with some millimetric calculations between the bodies. Because he’s an organized killer. “Organized” another stupid fancy word.


Craigslist, a shopping center where you can select from thousands of faces.
Facebook, a "kind of" shopping center where you can select from millions of faces.

Do you know about the secret victim? You don’t, do you?

It is obvious that this Hannibal guy is obsessed with pretty white gals. Do you know what he did? He created a fake Facebook character, hacking into some hot guy’s account and stealing his photos (you know these things are piece of cake for him, as you’ve already analyzed him perfectly) and friended a girl with big blue eyes and brown hair. Let’s call her “Facebook Bimbo”. She looks like Maureen, only ten times hotter. And since Hannibal is very cool and calm and manly manly on the phone, he didn’t really sweat much to lure this stupid girl into his web. And the poor one ended up in a burlap bag, too.

Question:
Where’s the Facebook Bimbo?

a) Hannibal is an organized killer and he builds clusters of bodies categorized as “Escorts”, “Coeds”, “Housewives”, and no wonder Facebook Bimbo’s body is in the “Bimbos” dump site which is not discovered yet.
b) Facebook Bimbo’s body is in Gilgo Beach, but it wasn’t discovered yet.
c) Facebook Bimbo is not a victim, because LISK has a thing for “prostitutes”

My answer is C.

LISK kills prostitutes.

Do you know Wendy?
http://imgs.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/tgoodman/2010/06/07/Episode-12-Wendy-2-760623x439.jpg

Wendy is a prostitute. You give her 5 dollars, she gives you a head, 10 dollars you go wherever you want. She even puts poison in your enemies' burgers. She’s the ultimate prostitute. And you know what? Hannibal killed her too. Poor Wendy ended up in another burlap bag. Sad.

Question:
Where’s Wendy?

a) Hannibal is an organized killer and he builds clusters of bodies categorized as “Escorts”, “Coeds”, “Housewives”, “Bimbos” and no wonder Wendy’s body is in the “Crackwhores” dumpsite which is not discovered yet.
b) Wendy’s body is in Gilgo Beach, but it wasn’t discovered yet.
c) Wendy is not a victim, because LISK has a thing for “pretty prostitutes”

My answer is C.

LISK kills “Pretty Prostitutes”

Now, let’s look at Maureen again.
http://image1.findagrave.com/photos250/photos/2011/100/64693289_130254909569.jpg


Maureen is a pretty girl, working as a prostitute. What is so special about her?

Hint, it’s in her purse.

Maureen, the pretty girl next door. The most valuable commodity in the market. Unfortunately, she also happens to be the pretty prostitute with cash in her purse.

FBI, Federal Bureau of.... something, Hawkshaw, what was the word?

Boys in Quantico wanna bet?

You can find the most unbelievable, crazy things in Gilgo Beach, like the remains of an Asian male, who is a cross dressing prostitute and looks like Jackie Chan in his sketch, which is probably nothing like his actual appearance. But a Dollar bill? Do you think you will find a single dollar bill in Gilgo? No. You wish.

LISK the rapist, the robber, the killer, the racist. In that order.

LISK, the robber, probably the guy who robbed Maureen.

Question:
LISK may have racial motives, but is he mainly a racist?
1 - No, he killed Peaches Doe, who’s a black woman.
2 - No. If race was the only motive in his crimes, we would be finding a victim, who is white, pretty gal but not prostitute.

His MO and other stuff. Maybe I can compile those things too, some day in the future.

Mr. Spota, you remembered the pissing contest you were in with Mr. Dormer? I can't believe I’m saying that, but I think Mr. Dormer is right, and you are too blind to see that a headless torso and an intact body in burlap are exactly the same things. You just don’t have the eye for it. Wanna know why? Oooh... It’s not free. You have to pay. Release Shannan’s 911 audio, and I tell you why.

Finally, Boys in Quantico.
On the off chance that The Mugger is not the killer, you still need to look for an African American perp. You wanna know why?.... Now, that info is priceless.

 

[LikeAHunter]

I'm interested to read what you find. No hurry, though.

This isn't from Vronsky's book, but it's even better because it's from the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit! http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder#disablemobile

Myth: Serial killers cannot stop killing.

It has been widely believed that once serial killers start killing, they cannot stop. There are, however, some serial killers who stop murdering altogether before being caught. In these instances, there are events or circumstances in offenders’ lives that inhibit them from pursuing more victims. These can include increased participation in family activities, sexual substitution, and other diversions.

• BTK killer, Dennis Rader, murdered ten victims from 1974 to 1991. He did not kill any other victims prior to being captured in 2005. During interviews conducted by law enforcement, Rader admitted to engaging in auto-erotic activities as a substitute for his killings.

• Jeffrey Gorton killed his first victim in 1986 and his next victim in 1991. He did not kill another victim and was captured in 2002. Gorton engaged in cross-dressing and masturbatory activities, as well as consensual sex with his wife in the interim.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

This isn't from Vronsky's book, but it's even better because it's from the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit! http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder#disablemobile

So, and please correct me if I'm wrong here, when you say that serial killers sometimes (though rarely) substitute family for killing, you're saying that they got something from increased family interaction that satisfied the urge to kill? Or somehow replaced that urge?

 

[LikeAHunter]

So, and please correct me if I'm wrong here, when you say that serial killers sometimes (though rarely) substitute family for killing, you're saying that they got something from increased family interaction that satisfied the urge to kill? Or somehow replaced that urge?

I don't want to misrepresent myself, because I have no inside knowledge on this. I'm just going by what I read.

That said, the FBI manual I linked to does suggest that some serial killers, like BTK, have found something to replace, or at least distract them from, their killing urges. At the same time, IIRC, BTK had also decided he was going to kill again and had begun planning when he was arrested.

In his book Serial Killers: The Method and Madness of Monsters (Berkley Books; 2004; pp 16-17), Peter Vronsky says that some SKs stop killing because they die, commit suicide, confess, allow themselves to get caught, grow old, become bored, or become burned out on their fantasy and process.

Also, IIRC, the Boston Strangler ceased killing and began raping instead.

 

[LikeAHunter]

For those who would like to know what a profiler from FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit in Quantico, Va says about LISK and other SKs:


http://video.najoomi.com/play/video/p1r0viWd5Fk/psychology-of-serial-killers-with-jim-clemente

"Psychology of Serial Killers with Jim Clemente"

From 2 min- ca 11 min talk about LISK

But the rest is also interesting.

Thank you for bringing this up, Foreigner! The FBI has databases, statistics, inside info, and tons of resources that we don't have--not to mention a great deal of experience--and I think their profile should absolutely be considered when we discuss LISK.

I wasn't able to view the video you linked to (maybe because I'm on my phone?), but here are some links to articles that contain profiles from the FBI, criminologists, forensic psychiatrists, and former FBI profilers:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/22/n...-personality-profile.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2011/04/personality_profile_of_long_is.html

http://news.discovery.com/human/long-island-serial-killer-profile-110413.htm

Personal note: I think each of those articles is worth reading. I remember reading an article once in which the profiler was quoted as saying she was positive that LISK was closely followng the media reports and reading all of them. But now I can't find the damn article to link to it!!

 

[Emre E]

This is racist.

Crime scenes tell a lot about the perpetrator, whether it’s black, white, young, old, woman, man, one person, two person, or a crime syndicate or whatnot.

I see prostitutes raped, robbed, killed and dumped.

So, I need to find a robber. I wrote that two years ago and made it clear that my person of interest is the person who robbed/mugged Maureen that night. Until Mr. Kolker’s book was published, I did not know that he was a guy with dreadlock hair. Now, the picture you see is exactly my POI. If I thought it was a top brass police officer I’d put a picture of a fat guy in uniforms, if I thought it was a young white male I would put something like the picture of Bittrolf in the 90’s.


I call him Darnell. Because it is a common name. If I thought it was a Greek guy I would call him Yorgo, if I thought it was a German man that would be Hans. Korean Park, Arabic Abdul... If you know the name of the person who took Maureen’s money that day, please let me know so I can use his actual name. Or better give it to the police and let them take a good look at him. Picking a moniker to represent the cultural background of a person makes me racist?



I’m looking for a black person. Why?

Do you think our genes tell our eye color, hair color, skin color but not our psyche? Of course it does.

It could be a young white male, but the most outstanding characteristic of a young white male is anger. I’m looking at the crime scene(s) and I don’t see anger, I see a calm mannered guy. Because on the contrary, a black male in his thirties is controlled. So, I see a controlled black man in his thirties, who knows what he is doing. Now, does that make me racist? Looking at the crime scene(s) what I’m having a hard time is to tell is whether a single perp or multiple perps. That’s the question for me.

I don’t think he is a sadistic individual too, because I see the calls to Amanda as a sexual advance. Not an act of sadism mainly.

I gave here a Lion example but unfortunately it was all modsnipped.

Lion eating an animal causing pain doesn’t make the lion sadist. Lion is just being lion. It wants to eat and that causes pain.

Jeffrey Dahmer drilling a hole on the skull of his victim for pouring acid into his brain to turn him into a sex zombie. Drilling the skull, now that must be painful. But think for a moment that we human beings are born with a natural hole leading into our brains, would Jeffrey still bother to drill that hole? No, he would just pour that chemical in. His main goal is to access the brain not to drill a hole in the skull. He just doesn’t care whether drilling a man's skull is painful or not.


He is a rapist. This guy called Melissa’s sister and you know what he told her. Does that make him a rapist or me a racist?

His IQ is 60. Yes, I think he is stupid, because he will be caught, because he made a lot of mistakes, all it takes a thorough vetting. IMHO.

Wannabe but can't be pimp, he wished he could be a pimp, but he is lacking the basic skill sets. An actual pimp would know better than killing a rogue escort. Does that make me racist?

Pot smoker. Maureen and her friend went out of the hotel to smoke and the first encounter between the guy and Maureen took place at the smoking spot. Possibly he was smoking too, possible that he’s a pot smoker too.

Barely functioning individual; he is raping women of 4.11 height. What does that tell about his achievement in his life? Does that make me racist?

Forensic countermeasures; yes, I believe he forced/sweet talked his victims to bathe themselves and poured chemicals into their bodies to clear DNA evidence. That's why I don't think he will be caught simply on DNA evidence. Am I racist?

Can you please tell me why you are accusing me, a person who is seeking justice for a black man's daughter killed by a white man, of racism?

 

[LindsayLohan6]

Pot smoker. Maureen and her friend went out of the hotel to smoke and the first encounter between the guy and Maureen took place at the smoking spot. Possibly he was smoking too, possible that he’s a pot smoker too.

Could you expand on this? I've never heard this? It's risky to smoke marijuana in times sq due to the heavy police presence but it's not rare to smell as you walk thru. I'm thinking maybe Maureen was buying a very large quantity of Marijuana to bring home and sell? A guy w dreadlocks? Hate to stereotype but maybe a pot dealer rasta mon......how do you get robbed for 900 and get the money back? Only way I can think of is in a drug deal gone wrong where you eventually recover the product..(which 900 of marijuana is quite a bit, only a dealer buys that much at a time)

 

[LindsayLohan6]

BTW just cuz someone has dreadlocks does not neccesarly make them black. While it's a reasonable assumption a white guy with dreads would be described as a guy with dreads as thats his prominent feature. There are plenty of white dudes with dreads and they mostly all smoke pot and i've surely known some white dreaded drug dealers

 

[Emre E]

Could you expand on this? I've never heard this? It's risky to smoke marijuana in times sq due to the heavy police presence but it's not rare to smell as you walk thru. I'm thinking maybe Maureen was buying a very large quantity of Marijuana to bring home and sell? A guy w dreadlocks? Hate to stereotype but maybe a pot dealer rasta mon......how do you get robbed for 900 and get the money back? Only way I can think of is in a drug deal gone wrong where you eventually recover the product..(which 900 of marijuana is quite a bit, only a dealer buys that much at a time)

I don't know. I really don't know the answers to your questions. I could just speculate and your speculation would be as good as mine. I still can't understand the part where Maureen can get her money back. It is possible that the guy with dreads is perhaps a white individual, there's no clarification in Kolker's book. I'm just surmising that he is probably black. But that doesn't mean he (if he is white) shouldn't be vetted thoroughly nor change my theory about a black individual for the reasons I explained above. See, I'm not trying to win a debate contest here, he can be in any color or shape I wouldn't be surprised. I'm genuinely trying to help catching a person who killed those unlucky girls. That's it.

 

[LindsayLohan6]

I think the SK saying to Terry "I know where you be at" prolly means he is familiar with 46th st (?) where Terry hung out pimping. Then you've got those pictures of JT hanging out with her pimp Remy at Union Square. Thing is most guys you'd find hanging out on the corners in Times Sq or Union Sq hustling don't have a car!

 

[LindsayLohan6]

Hell maybe the boyfriend Peaches was having trouble with ended up killing her? The Tattoo Artist said she was having boyfriend trouble and was in Connecticut maybe to get away from him? Maybe he was a stalker/violet boyfriend? You don't usually tell a stranger when your having relationship issues so they must have been significant for peaches to mention them to her tattoo artist. I was always more suspicious of the tattoo artist but maybe he was telling the truth. However I still it's possible the SK could be a tattoo artist because he mentioned Terry's tattoo's and every victim I can think of has had tattoos

 

[Emre E]

Hell maybe the boyfriend Peaches was having trouble with ended up killing her?

That's an excellent spot to look.