Proving the McCann's innocence

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Let's prove the McCanns are innocent. Just saying there is no proof they are guilty doesn't make them innocent. I want to find undeniable proof of their innocence. I want to find out who took Madeleine. If not Kate and Gerry...then who?

To find your way through a maze it is always easiest to start at the end and go backwards.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Robert Murat

http://www.netglimse.com/celebs/pages/robert_murat/index.shtml
From Link:

On 16 May 2007, it was reported that two cars used by the Murats had been examined, and computers, mobile phones and several video tapes were taken away from their villa[25] and it was claimed that, on examination, several links to paedophile websites were found on the computers and that some video tapes showed depraved sexual acts and bestiality[26] though nothing was found to directly link Murat to Madeleine's disappearance.[27] It also emerged that a British architect who built the villa where Murat lives was ignored when he called police about a hidden basement within the property.[28]The police were understood to have taken in for questioning Sergey Malinka, 22, a man of Russian origin, from whose property officers also took away a laptop computer and two hard drives. Malinka had set up a website for Murat.[29] According to the Portuguese media, Malinka is said to be a convicted child sexual offender and a computer technician who is believed to be on good terms with Robert Murat, as the two exchanged frequent phone calls since Madeleine's disappearance—the reason the authorities started suspecting him.[30][31]

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Does anyone have a subscription to the international (or UK) version of Ancestry.com? I am trying to find a link between Evert Hendrik Hoos and Robert Murat. Evert, if you will remember, is the owner of the Creon Starlight pet creamitory. IMO he looks a lot like Robert Murat. He also speaks fluent English and Portugese. He spent several years in prison for radical bombings in the late 80's early 90's.

Evert Hendrik Hoos: http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w204/iNTERESTEDWOMAN/2FurnessLewisDM_468x359.jpg

Robert Murat:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w204/iNTERESTEDWOMAN/Murat-aftercourt.jpg

If true that Murat had bestiality and Roos runs a pet crematory...it links them in an odd sort of way.

 

[colomom]

Does anyone have a subscription to the international (or UK) version of Ancestry.com?
~snip~

I have forwarded your request to a friend on Proboards who I believe does have a subscription. I'll let you know when I get a reply.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I have forwarded your request to a friend on Proboards who I believe does have a subscription. I'll let you know when I get a reply.

Thanks Colomom. :blowkiss: I hope that everyone will help in this quest. Putting ALL feelings aside either for *or* against the McCanns is the only way we will ever find Madeleine. There are some excellent sleuthers on this board and if for a moment we can all presume Kate and Gerry innocent and look in a different direction, maybe we'll find our answers.

Murat and Tanner have always creeped me out, probably more than anyone of the key players in this case. Someone took Madeleine. It could have been anyone. Tanner's story has changed entirely too much for her to be an "honest engine". She is protecting someone, and maybe it's NOT K & G. Murat, a grown man living at his mothers house with doggie on his PC is sick. His Russian buddy the paedophile IT has his own boat load of troubles, including a torched car. :waitasec:

 

[Salem]

IW - they do look alike. HMMMMMMM...... You go girl!

Salem

 

[colomom]

I read a very interesting theory today over on 3A's:

(http://the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=23305)

The McCanns have somehow seriously upset a powerful group of people, lets say an organised crime syndicate or the intelligence services of some country. These guys are organised and professional. they decide to teach the Mcs a lesson.

The Mcs are followed on their holiday they are watched and the apartment staked out.
Maddy is then swiftly and quickly abducted by a "professional " who is very experienced. In and out of the apartment in a couple of minutes.He wears masks, gloves,and disposable overalls. He leaves no forensic trace.He either uses the patio doors if these were unlocked or he uses a duplicate front door key made previously.

The kidnappers then a day or two later contact the McCanns with proof that Maddie is alive-and being cared for-perhaps she speaks to her parents on a mobile phone.
The kidnappers then say that she will be kept alive and cared for providing the McCs do everything they say, else she will be killed.

The Mcs are instructed to tell the police a confusing story. They are told to thoroughly clean the apartment .They are told to start a fund which will be eventually be paid to the kidnappers, unless it exceeds 1 million GBP M will be killed.

They are told to contaminate the apartment and car with cadaverine. (provided by the kidnappers or obtained via medical contacts).They are told told to leave all these clues pointing to themselves, or else M will be killed. Terrified for their daughters safety they follow all the kidnappers demands. They dare not tell the police the real truth as this will endanger M.

Fortunately Gordon Brown is a personal friend and he pulls out extra stops on their behalf in the shape of the British Ambassador,Clarrie etc. He is doing this merely to help old friends out of the goodness of his heart (and anyway the taxpayer funds it). GB knows nothing of what has really happened.

Likewise Kennedy, Branson ,et al. are merely being philanthropic (while benefiting from the good publicity achieved for their businesses at the same time).

The private detective agents are either acting as conduits to or communication with the kidnappers, or are hired by the Mcs in order to appear to be looking for M while at the same time unable to hire a really competent agency which might actually get close to the real perpetrators and so endanger their daughter.

The Mcs have been assured, and provided with proof , that M is still alive and will be returned unharmed once all the fund has reached the kidnappers and provided the Mcs continue to do everything the kidnappers say.

A large part of the fund has already reached the kidnappers and is now untraceable, a large part of the ransom has already been paid with no risk to the kidnappers in collecting it.

I expect the hypothesis could be stretched to include other facts of the case I haven't mentioned. eg confusion of the time line among the Tapas 7 -maybe they did drink 14 bottles of wine and became confused, maybe JT did see an abductor-she was meant to).

Money is still coming to the fund so the kidnappers are milking for all its worth.

M is in Kurdistan, Iran, or a mountain village in Sardinia or Sicily depending who the kidnappers are.

Let us hope it is the latter as the Italians really love their "Bambini" and she is probably being looked after well,we hope.

These guys are professionals the whole point is to confuse the police and throw them of the scent.

Two gang members both carry children at the same time through different parts of PDL.
The real kidnappers have already left by car (or boat, or even private plane)

This thoroughly confuses the police and any witnessses

The Mcs have to trust the Kidnappers especially if they know they have M. They have no choice.

BK has become fascinated with this case (as has everyone on this forum) unlike us he can afford to do some investigating of his own.So he jets of to Morocco and speaks to witnesses.

Not being wealthy we have to limit ourselves to posting on the internet.

The one flaw I have seen in my own hypothesis (which I put up with the aim of testing it to destruction) is how did the McCs put a false trail of cadaver scent and blood traces in 5A after they had been moved out of it.

The answer I think has to be that the kidnap gang had an accomplice on the staff of the Ocean Club,either they had bribed or compromised one of the cleaners or a gang member got him or herself employed as a cleaner there shortly before the McCs arrived. I imagine such businesses with a largely seasonal trade probably rely quite heavily on temporary or casual labour and are possibly fairly lax about making background checks particularly where menial tasks are concerned.

This accomplice would have been very useful for spying on the Mcs ,finding which room the kids slept in , making a duplicate key,and later visiting the apartment to put down traces of false evidence.

If we are considering the Russian Mafia as possible perpetrators this person could have been of East European extraction (remember this is a hypothesis only and I am suggesting no particular person here). Whoever the accomplice was would have probably left their employment not long after M's disappearance.

So, I think I have come up with an extremely unlikely but just about possible scenario which explains all the facts but leaves the Mcs as innocent parties.

The main problem I have with it ,that stops me taking it more seriously than I do, is one of motive. A gang capable of carrying off a plan of this complexity would probably go after bigger fish than the McCanns IMO.

 

[colomom]

Thanks Colomom. :blowkiss: I hope that everyone will help in this quest. Putting ALL feelings aside either for *or* against the McCanns is the only way we will ever find Madeleine. There are some excellent sleuthers on this board and if for a moment we can all presume Kate and Gerry innocent and look in a different direction, maybe we'll find our answers.

Murat and Tanner have always creeped me out, probably more than anyone of the key players in this case. Someone took Madeleine. It could have been anyone. Tanner's story has changed entirely too much for her to be an "honest engine". She is protecting someone, and maybe it's NOT K & G. Murat, a grown man living at his mothers house with doggie on his PC is sick. His Russian buddy the paedophile IT has his own boat load of troubles, including a torched car. :waitasec:

My pleasure IW....

I have tried, believe me, to think outside the box and presume the McCanns innocent but I keep coming back to the dogs. If it was not for them I would probably doubt my gut a lot more often. I promise to really think about it though and I will bring you anything that I can find that seems plausible.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

My pleasure IW....

I have tried, believe me, to think outside the box and presume the McCanns innocent but I keep coming back to the dogs. If it was not for them I would probably doubt my gut a lot more often. I promise to really think about it though and I will bring you anything that I can find that seems plausible.

Yes the dogs, that is the hardest to explain away...but the poster from the 3A's post that you referenced has a fairly descent explanation of how the odor could have been "planted" in the apartment. Jane Tanner would have had easy excess to the apartment...and Murat was also in there in the beginning. Actually it seems the apartment was a free for all the first night.

More to ponder from the 3A's poster. Wasn't there talk of a new hospital being built. Some of the T9 were on the board if I remember correctly. A new hospital is BIG BUCKS. Around here we have huge campaigns just for updates and remodels of our existing facility....hummm Did the T9, (K or G in particular) tick someone off with an unpopular vote of some sort at a board meeting? I'll have to look around on that theory on my next rainy day.

 

[Salem]

Okay - guys..... the 3A post is a joke, right? It is just a way to try to make the facts fit the situation but was not seriously thought out....

Anyway - Maddie could have died in the apartment at the hands of someone other than K&G. The difficulty here is the timing. If any of the checks were done like the T9 has stated, it would have been very difficult to clean up and get out before being caught by one of the baby listeners. But, not impossible, if in fact, no one was checking on the children. However, we know that is not true, because Gerry did check at least once, when he ran into JW.

If this was the only check, how much time would someone have to clean up?

Salem

 

[SleuthMom]

I have tried, believe me, to think outside the box and presume the McCanns innocent but I keep coming back to the dogs.

Reading about the dogs and actually seeing them "working" on the videos that have been posted here are two different things. If Gerry and Kate are innocent, how do we explain the dogs? Planted evidence? Hmmmm...Who are the Mc Canns for someone/group to do all this for the purpose of kidnapping a child?

The dogs, the dogs! Everything links back to them, sorry.

 

[Salem]

The most difficult parts about explaining the dogs, to me, are:

1. The blood splatter. If an intruder hurt Maddie, when did s/he clean up the splatter?
2. If an intruder hurt Maddie, how was she left in the apt long enough for the decomp smell, which on average takes 1.5-2 hours? I know some dogs can pick it up quicker, but within minutes of death? Intruder hurts Maddie and takes her out of the apt - takes what, 5 minutes? Is that long enough?

Salem

 

[colomom]

Must think outside the box Salem...

The spatter could be from someone else. The FSS, the finest in the world, did not say that it was Maddie's blood, absolutely, therefore we cannot consider it for the purpose of this thread.

As Gerry is so fond of telling us, the dogs could be wrong, mistaken or under the influence of their handler.

I agree that the intruder theory is difficult because of the lack of evidence but what about woke and wandered? What if she went looking for her parents and headed for the beach, for the Parisio restaurant, which was the direction the sniffer dogs took, and fell off a cliff into the sea?

The people seen carrying children that night could have been parents bringing their sleeping children home. JT may have seen a local bring their child home from the creche. The confusion about JT, GM and JW and if they did, or didn't see or pass by each other could just be lousy interpretation by the police interpreter.

 

[Rhett]

The most difficult parts about explaining the dogs, to me, are:

1. The blood splatter. If an intruder hurt Maddie, when did s/he clean up the splatter?

Any why would anyone clean up the splatter if it was an intruder? I can understand cleaning it up if it was on of the Tapas 9 but not an intruder. Also, I still think that the pet crematorium has a part in this. I think if we dig deep enough as someone else said there will be a connection. Or, somehow G & K paid big bucks to use it and get his silence. MOO.
(PS, never done the quote thingy before, hope I did it right, my apologies if not, lol.)

 

[Salem]

Rhett - you are right about the splatter cleanup. An intruder would not clean up, they would get the heck out of there. And if Maddie had been fatally harmed, an intruder would leave her behind, not run off down the street with her.

You did fine on the quote. You just hit the little blue "quote" button on the bottom right hand side of the post and then when you type, you type outside the

brackets. There are ways to get all fancy with the quoting, but they are beyond me

Salem

 

[Gatinho]

Does anyone have a subscription to the international (or UK) version of Ancestry.com? I am trying to find a link between Evert Hendrik Hoos and Robert Murat. Evert, if you will remember, is the owner of the Creon Starlight pet creamitory. IMO he looks a lot like Robert Murat. He also speaks fluent English and Portugese. He spent several years in prison for radical bombings in the late 80's early 90's.

Evert Hendrik Hoos: http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w204/iNTERESTEDWOMAN/2FurnessLewisDM_468x359.jpg

Robert Murat:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w204/iNTERESTEDWOMAN/Murat-aftercourt.jpg

If true that Murat had bestiality and Roos runs a pet crematory...it links them in an odd sort of way.

I can't see any similarity and "If true that Murat had bestiality and Roos runs a pet crematory...it links them in an odd sort of way."

...eh?

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I can't see any similarity and "If true that Murat had bestiality and Roos runs a pet crematory...it links them in an odd sort of way."

...eh?

I know, sounds gross huh? Just remember there are some pretty sick people in this world. If a perv can have sex with a dead horse, (in the news awhile back) then I suppose someone "into" bestiality, would have a need for a animal crematory...

 

[Jayelles]

Yes the dogs, that is the hardest to explain away...but the poster from the 3A's post that you referenced has a fairly descent explanation of how the odor could have been "planted" in the apartment. Jane Tanner would have had easy excess to the apartment...and Murat was also in there in the beginning. Actually it seems the apartment was a free for all the first night.

More to ponder from the 3A's poster. Wasn't there talk of a new hospital being built. Some of the T9 were on the board if I remember correctly. A new hospital is BIG BUCKS. Around here we have huge campaigns just for updates and remodels of our existing facility....hummm Did the T9, (K or G in particular) tick someone off with an unpopular vote of some sort at a board meeting? I'll have to look around on that theory on my next rainy day.

It does seem that the dog alerts are the only "evidence" the anti-McCanns have against the couple. Considering the fact that the dogs cannot tell us whose smell they detect, that's pretty weak evidence.

A poster at ForumsforJustice painstakingly analysed the video of the car-dog doing it's job. Here is a link to her analysis. Many thanks to Moab for doing this. The video clearly shows the discrepancies in the way the handler leads the dogs around the car pound. He didn't stop at any car except the McCanns, he didn't tap any other car except the McCanns. He called the dog back THREE TIMES to the McCann car when the dog seemed disinterested. If I were a juror, no way would I be convinced by the integrity of this sniffer dog investigation. Not if it had been any of the cars let alone the McCann's.

There is also something wrong with the apartment dog video. I need to go back and look at it again but something has struck me as odd.

 

[Isabella]

It does seem that the dog alerts are the only "evidence" the anti-McCanns have against the couple. Considering the fact that the dogs cannot tell us whose smell they detect, that's pretty weak evidence.

.

Not true - thats not the only evidence at all.

Also not sure why you bumped a 7 month old thread lol

 

[Jayelles]

Not true - thats not the only evidence at all.

Also not sure why you bumped a 7 month old thread lol

WHy wouldn't I bump a thread that I've only just found? It's not as if it is against the TOS.

I'd really appreciate if you started backing up your statements instead of just making them. And a source or two would be great

Tell us about the other "evidence". Remember to include credible sources. Note that tabloid gossip is not a source. Nor is "I read it somewhere" which seems to be one of your favourite sources.