Questions about Dr. Meyer

[Jayelles]

Quote of the day

Check the janitor who cleans up in Meyer's lab. He probably spotted the clippers on a bench one night while cleaning and used then to trim a hang-nail.

 

[Maxi]

Carol McKinley reported the clipper story way back when. I think Pam Paugh may have been her source. I think it was around the same time she broke the story about the crescent marks on JBR's neck.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

I think Pam is a nice person but I think she was never clued into this case. She was naive enough to pick up on suggestions made to her by people like Carol McKinley and extrapolate into "facts".

 

[Toth]

She was naive ... .

Precisely. Never really understood that if people were saying something to her it was for a reason and they would be using her for their own agenda rather than trying to solve the case.

 

[Jayelles]

Always the snide little remarks about anyone who doesn't blindly support the Ramseys 100% or who dares to suggest they were less than perfect.

Pam Griffen isn't just a high calibre seamstress who was adored and admired by Patsy - she is also a trained nurse.

 

[Imon128]

There is info in PMPT that Pam was close enough to Patsy to allow Patsy to discuss JB's bedwetting and didn't Pam's daughter babysit JB? That makes it appear that Patsy trusted and confided in Pam, IMO. And didn't Pam go to Patsy and help her wash her hair, bathe, etc., during Patsy's first days after JB's death? Smacks of closeness to me, but that's JMO. I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Jayelles]

You are quite correct. Pam's daughter Kristine was JonBenet's babysitter and pageant coach. Pam herself had a workshop in her basement which Patsy described in glowing nostalgic terms as being filled with haberdashery of every colour. Patsy loved the buzz and atmosphere of Pam's workshop and would often buy snacks to take there on her visits. She appeared to just like hanging out there.

When the Ramseys were at the Fernie house in the aftermath of the murder, Pam was there and it was Pam who assisted Patsy with her showering and hair washing. Pam was concerned that Patsy was getting de-hydrated.

Pam has only ever been kind in her words about the Ramseys. I didn't get the impression she was an idiot. Her achievements would tend to suggest she isn't an idiot.

I think she may now be a realtor. I think this is the same person in these photos:-

http://www.pamgriffin.net/
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/art/extra/1221jon2.gif

 

[tipper]

Always the snide little remarks about anyone who doesn't blindly support the Ramseys 100% or who dares to suggest they were less than perfect.

Pam Griffen isn't just a high calibre seamstress who was adored and admired by Patsy - she is also a trained nurse.

Are we talking Pam Griffin or Pam Paugh. Ms. Griffin seems to be a nice person, Ms Paugh seems to be something of a flake.

 

[tipper]

LP
ST's book claims Meyers used the same clipper for all fingers. He also says the clippers should have been "sterile."

 

[Jayelles]

Are we talking Pam Griffin or Pam Paugh. Ms. Griffin seems to be a nice person, Ms Paugh seems to be something of a flake.

Pam Griffin. The costume maker/nurse/realtor. Yes, I thought she seemed like a nice, caring person.

I've never seen Pam Paugh on tv. Just a rather horrid photo of her with her mouth open! I got the impression that she was traumatised by her niece's murder. She does appear to have spoken out of turn on a number of occasions and I would consider her postig on forums/chats to be rather inappropriate.

 

[Maxi]

I think LP was referring to Pam Paugh.

 

[cookie]

There is reference to the contaminated nail clippers on page 42 of the Steve Thomas book.
"When Meyer clipped the nails of each finger, no blood or tissue was found that would indicate a struggle. He used the same clippers for all the fingers, although doing so created an issue of cross-contamination. For optimal DNA purposes, separate and sterile clippers should have been used for each finger. Furthermore, we later learned that the coroner's office sometimes used the same clippers on different autopsy subjects."

 

[Shylock]

There is reference to the contaminated nail clippers on page 42 of the Steve Thomas book.
"When Meyer clipped the nails of each finger, no blood or tissue was found that would indicate a struggle. He used the same clippers for all the fingers, although doing so created an issue of cross-contamination. For optimal DNA purposes, separate and sterile clippers should have been used for each finger. Furthermore, we later learned that the coroner's office sometimes used the same clippers on different autopsy subjects."

Thank you Cookie! And people wonder why we say this is NOT a DNA case...sheeesh.

Yo LP, there's your quote!

So now, not only do we have Sum Yung Gai in her panties, we have Janitor Joe under her nails...

 

[BlueCrab]

There is reference to the contaminated nail clippers on page 42 of the Steve Thomas book.
"When Meyer clipped the nails of each finger, no blood or tissue was found that would indicate a struggle. He used the same clippers for all the fingers, although doing so created an issue of cross-contamination. For optimal DNA purposes, separate and sterile clippers should have been used for each finger. Furthermore, we later learned that the coroner's office sometimes used the same clippers on different autopsy subjects."

I for one don't trust much of what Steve Thomas has said or written about. Steve was hell bent on proving his PDI theory and lied and misled trying to get his theory accepted. Do we have a better source about the possible contamination of the nail clippers?

Just my opinion.

 

[cookie]

I certainly would think that there would be HUGE problems with Meyer's testimony about anything in a courtroom after doing something that seems to be so stupid. The prosecution could, and most likely would, jump on that and other things he apparently did way different than that of most other professionals. Such as, why did it take sooooo very long for a coroner to show up at a murder scene in the first place. Was he not called immediately, or was he called and he was just busy with it being the holidays and all?

 

[tipper]

As I recall from the OJ case it seems the coroner does not hurry right out to the crime scene. It wasn't an issue that came up in trial particularly. Not sure why. Maybe because the drop in body temp is a mathematical calculation and time can be extrapolated. Course in this case she was in 2 different temperature zones.

 

[Jayelles]

Such as, why did it take sooooo very long for a coroner to show up at a murder scene in the first place. Was he not called immediately, or was he called and he was just busy with it being the holidays and all?[/quote

It's funny you should mention it, but this very matter came up on a tv programme I watched just two evenings ago called "Real CSI". I don't normally watch TV at this time of night, but I was muddling about and it caught my attention.

The case was one of a man found shot in a building site in California. It explained that in the first instance, the scene of crime officers go in because they have such a very short period of time in which to collect evidence before the crime scene becomes contaminated. In this particular case, the body was found in the morning and the scene of crime officers worked all day and into the evening collecting evidence from the surrounding area. They took casts of footprints and tyre tracks and when it grew dark, they floodlit the area so they could keep working. Only when they had finished, did they call the coroner and tell him he could come to the body now. By that time, the body had been discovered for almost 24 hours.

I was surprised at this because I thought - surely it was important to determine TOD etc, however, I suppose a dead body isn't going anywhere, whereas microscopic evidence could be destroyed by a single person walking through the crime scene.

 

[Shylock]

BLUECRAB:
Steve was hell bent on proving his PDI theory and lied and misled trying to get his theory accepted.

BlueCrab, you're really stretching it to make your theory. Not a single person who worked on the case and actually knows the FACTS has ever stated that Steve Thomas lies about anything in his book. That includes Lou Smit. Thomas has said, both in chat and under oath, that he stands by every word in his book. Even Lin Wood couldn't trip him up and prove him to be a liar.

But notice how Lin Wood stayed away from specific topics (like the DNA clippers) when deposing Thomas. It's just too bad that Darnay Hoffman was such useless fool or we might know a few more real facts that point to the Ramseys.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Thank you, maxi--I was referring to Pam Paugh.

Meyer appears to have used sterile clippers for the autopsy of JonBenét. The male DNA found in her fingernail clippings obviously did not come from the clippers.

The complete male DNA profile (obtained in 1999) that has been submitted (2003) to CODIS is from a blood stain on JonBenét's panties.

I have not read a credible published source claiming that the male DNA from the nail clippings is either consistent with or inconsistent with the male DNA from the panties, but my own leaning is toward consistent--based on Smit's assertion that the DNA from the clippings was consistent with the DNA from the panties.

 

[tipper]

BlueCrab, you're really stretching it to make your theory. Not a single person who worked on the case and actually knows the FACTS has ever stated that Steve Thomas lies about anything in his book. That includes Lou Smit. Thomas has said, both in chat and under oath, that he stands by every word in his book. Even Lin Wood couldn't trip him up and prove him to be a liar.

But notice how Lin Wood stayed away from specific topics (like the DNA clippers) when deposing Thomas. It's just too bad that Darnay Hoffman was such useless fool or we might know a few more real facts that point to the Ramseys.

He doesn't tell outright lies but he phrases things in such a way as to give one impression when that impression isn't exactly the truth. The most blatant example is his making it sound like Patsy is the only one whose handwriting couldn't be eliminated as the note writer.