Questions that I have

[candy]

Patsy putting together lunches for John's business that cost $30,000 is lavish to me.

 

[Ivy]

Poor Jeff Merrick. Little did he know he was about to be thrown under a bus.

PMPT pb p. 578

...Lou Smit received a letter from John Ramsey, who gave the investigator his list of suspects in his daughter's murder: Jeff Merrick, Mike Glynn, and Jim Marino--all of whom had once worked for him--and Bill McReynolds, who had been Santa at their Christmas party.

 

[Toth]

They lead essentially a low key lifestyle. They were not well known or particularly conspicuous in Boulder society. They raised their kids rather than go to Opera House Openings or the like.

On what is referred by you as The Swamp and by me as the Forum of Record and Reason, I once posted a thread dealing with the List that had been issued by the Boulder Chamber of Commerce: "Boulder Area Fat Cats with Young Daughters" and mentioned that John Ramsey was listed 576th on that list. Now obviously, there was no such list issued by the Chamber of Commerce, despite one poster's misunderstanding of that point, but crux of the matter is that John Ramsey would have been rather low on any such list.

No oppulent lifestyle. No Enron type business deals.

 

[Imon128]

Are we talking about the SAME John and Patsy Ramsey??? (scratching head)

 

[why_nutt]

Originally posted by Toth
They lead essentially a low key lifestyle. They were not well known or particularly conspicuous in Boulder society. They raised their kids rather than go to Opera House Openings or the like.

On what is referred by you as The Swamp and by me as the Forum of Record and Reason, I once posted a thread dealing with the List that had been issued by the Boulder Chamber of Commerce: "Boulder Area Fat Cats with Young Daughters" and mentioned that John Ramsey was listed 576th on that list. Now obviously, there was no such list issued by the Chamber of Commerce, despite one poster's misunderstanding of that point, but crux of the matter is that John Ramsey would have been rather low on any such list.

No oppulent lifestyle. No Enron type business deals.

You must be joking. While they were not well-known, John and Patsy certainly were fond of leading a less than low-key lifestyle. I would never think that a low-key lifestyle includes travel to multiple states most months of the year, and requiring one's children to have three separate sets of friends in Colorado, Michigan and Georgia (four sets for JonBenet, if you include the ones she saw only at pageants). No "oppulent" lifestyle"? What sort of lifestyle would you call it, then, that ends up with expensive country club memberships in two states, tickets every year to the Superbowl, travel at will to the Olympics, ownership of two houses, two racing-class boats, two new cars, a $150 lobster dinner in New York City for a child and the ability to spend thousands of dollars in support of a trivial hobby that was said to have no more than "a few Sunday afternoons" spent on it?

 

[Barbara]

"........and mentioned that John Ramsey was listed 576th on that list. Now obviously, there was no such list issued by the Chamber of Commerce, despite one poster's misunderstanding of that point, but crux of the matter is that John Ramsey would have been rather low on any such list."

Yet, with 575 fatter cats than him, these mysterious, brilliant, invisible, one armed, one legged "intruder" from a foreign faction chose John Ramsey to target. The one with a difficult house to navigate AND WITH EVERYONE AT HOME SLEEPING, leaving no real evidence of him/herself.

Yeah, we believe that.

 

[Toth]

Originally posted by Imon128
Are we talking about the SAME John and Patsy Ramsey??? (scratching head)

Don't scratch too hard, but do please consider: part time housekeepers NOT full time butler, nanny and maid. Devoted time to school and church activities, did not merely send checks. Generous but never splashing money around or ostentatious lifestyle. Financially well off but still a low key lifestyle. Sure,,, someone like Pricilla White may have resented the Shopping Trip/Theater Trip to NYC that she had to drop out of (and probably never intended going on anyway), but most people did not resent the Ramsey's lifestyle in anyway.
Sure they had the usual business entertaintment deductions for salesmen such as tickets to sporting events but there was no opulent lifestyle.

 

[Toth]

Originally posted by Barbara
Yet, with 575 fatter cats than him, these mysterious, brilliant, invisible, one armed, one legged "intruder" from a foreign faction chose John Ramsey to target. The one with a difficult house to navigate AND WITH EVERYONE AT HOME SLEEPING, leaving no real evidence of him/herself.

Which means there was no foreign faction, not that there was no intruder. It means the Ramseys were the targets, not merely that they were "fat cats". The home was easy to navigate, particularly with so many Christmas trees lighting the way and there was considerable forensic evidence of an intruder and some evidence indicating prior entry into the house, such as the white duct tape.

 

[Ivy]

Patsy said the house was so hard for their guests to navigate that there was a standing joke that guests needed to drop a trail of breadcrumbs to keep from getting lost in it.

Auntie Pam probably absconded with the roll of tape, as well as the remainder of the cord. There is NO evidence of an intruder. None.

 

[Toth]

Originally posted by Ivy
Auntie Pam probably absconded with the roll of tape, as well as the remainder of the cord.

What on earth makes you think that Aunt Pam would ever do such a thing? Why would the tape and cord have been left undiscarded? When would devestated and drugged Patsy Ramsey been able to have communicated anything about the tape and cord? Wouldn't Susan Stine have heard any such statement? Why on earth would Aunt Pam not want to see the murderer of JonBenet in jail? Don't you think she would be the first to turn in ANYONE who she thought had done it. HOW could Aunt Pam have obtained the cord or tape when she was not alone in the house for even an instant but was escorted and watched by the police at all times?

 

[Ivy]

Toth, your asking, "Wouldn't Susan Stine have heard any such statement?" makes me laugh. My answer: So what if she had? What does that have to do with anything? Do you think Patsy's pitbull Susan would have tattled on the Ramseys?

If Auntie Pam removed the tape roll and cord, she did it to protect her sister Patsy and Patsy's husband John and their son Burke...and to help protect the reputation of entire family, including the Paughs. But I actually think that Patsy probably removed the items in her purse, or that John or Burke sneaked them out. Remember...Patsy, John and Burke were not searched before they left the house.

 

[sissi]

Barbara quote;The one with a difficult house to navigate AND WITH EVERYONE AT HOME SLEEPING, leaving no real evidence of him/herself.
That was the VanDams,the perp in the Jonbenet case left many fibers,a hair,and his dna,he just needs to be located,IMO.

 

[why_nutt]

Originally posted by Toth
Don't scratch too hard, but do please consider: part time housekeepers NOT full time butler, nanny and maid. Devoted time to school and church activities, did not merely send checks. Generous but never splashing money around or ostentatious lifestyle. Financially well off but still a low key lifestyle. Sure,,, someone like Pricilla White may have resented the Shopping Trip/Theater Trip to NYC that she had to drop out of (and probably never intended going on anyway), but most people did not resent the Ramsey's lifestyle in anyway.
Sure they had the usual business entertaintment deductions for salesmen such as tickets to sporting events but there was no opulent lifestyle.

part time housekeepers NOT full time butler, nanny and maid

All this says is that John and Patsy had no particular desire to build yet another room onto their house for the live-in help, as they had done with their full-time live-in nanny Shirley Brady in Atlanta. Where would a full-time employee have been able to live within the Ramsey house and yet not invade the family's privacy? Remember, if John and Patsy maintained an average sex life while in Boulder, they were doing so in a bedroom that had no doors. Burke and JonBenet may not have been able to interpret the odd sounds coming from their parents's bedroom, but an adult housekeeper certainly would.

Devoted time to school and church activities, did not merely send checks.

The time spent volunteering at the school was a requirement. The school was new and did not yet have enough funding to hire all the teachers and aides it could have used. It could not even afford to buy all the school supplies it needed, which is why the Good Fairy project came about which finagled parents into buying supplies out of their own pockets.

Church activities? All anyone can say that John and Patsy did for their Boulder church was write a check to pay for the atrium established in Beth's name. They led no classes, and a good thing, too, as we found out later on when John told a Christian tv program interviewer that he was not a good Bible student, and this after nearly twenty years of attending Bible study classes. The Ramseys let their house be used for a church event, but all that meant was staying out of the way; you might as well say that Jacques participated in church activities by that definition.


Generous but never splashing money around or ostentatious lifestyle.

The purpose of the 1994 Christmas house tour was to be ostentatious about their lifestyle, since the house was not designed by any notable architect as other houses on the tour were. John did not build the boat Grand Season because he wanted a modest little skiff to fish from. Patsy did not buy JonBenet an antique Victorian chair costing thousands of dollars because she felt she could find no other less costly item for her child to sit on. John did not own his own airplane because the commercial airline schedules were five minutes off from what John absolutely, positively needed.

Sure,,, someone like Pricilla White may have resented the Shopping Trip/Theater Trip to NYC that she had to drop out of (and probably never intended going on anyway), but most people did not resent the Ramsey's lifestyle in anyway.

And by "like Priscilla White" would you mean Susan Stine, who had no daughter and therefore was not invited to the mother-daughter trip to New York? You cannot mean Priscilla herself, who lived a life of leisure (the sort a person can live who has married into a family who own land worth a few million dollars in Aspen), had a stay-at-home spouse to help with the children and who could go to New York anytime she wanted.

 

[Imon128]

Toth...I'm just curious, have you read info on the R's social life and standing in the community at the time of JB's death? They surely were Snob Knob community residents, from what I've read. In a glorification of the couple, one might tend to dismiss the social standing in lieu of a pipedream sweetie-pie couple living the elusive dream, but I don't believe that to be the case with John, Patsy, and family. JMO, of course.

 

[Nedthan Johns]

Toth: No oppulent lifestyle. No Enron type business deals

Ned: and BINGO, NO reason for any intruder kidnapper to want to take or harm their innocent child

 

[Nedthan Johns]

Why Nutt, you summed it up nicely

 

[Toltec]

Two words....Excess Graphics.

 

[Toth]

Originally posted by why_nutt
part time housekeepers NOT full time butler, nanny and maid

All this says is that John and Patsy had no particular desire to build yet another room onto their house for the live-in help, as they had done with their full-time live-in nanny Shirley Brady in Atlanta.
....Was this during the time of Patsy's illness?

>Remember, if John and Patsy maintained an average sex life
...That is a subject for tabloid editors, not I.

Devoted time to school and church activities, did not merely send checks.

The time spent volunteering at the school was a requirement. The school was new and did not yet have enough funding to hire all the teachers and aides it could have used.
...and could not afford to enforce any such requirement either.

Church activities? All anyone can say that John and Patsy did for their Boulder church was write a check to pay for the atrium established in Beth's name.
....Apparently that 'anyone' does not include the Pastor.

Generous but never splashing money around or ostentatious lifestyle.

The purpose of the 1994 Christmas house tour was to be ostentatious about their lifestyle, since the house was not designed by any notable architect as other houses on the tour were.
....Apparently the organizers of the tour had no objection.

>Patsy did not buy JonBenet an antique Victorian chair costing thousands of dollars because she felt she could find no other less costly item for her child to sit on.
......Whereas all your cars, clothes, furniture are ofcourse selected by standards solely of least cost.
> John did not own his own airplane
Airplane ownership has nothing to do with opulence.

Sure,,, someone like Pricilla White may have resented the Shopping Trip/Theater Trip to NYC that she had to drop out of (and probably never intended going on anyway), but most people did not resent the Ramsey's lifestyle in anyway.

>You cannot mean Priscilla herself, who lived a life of leisure (the
>sort a person can live who has married into a family who own
>land worth a few million dollars in Aspen), had a stay-at-home
>spouse to help with the children and who could go to New York
>anytime she wanted.
Ever hear of the phrase 'land rich, cash poor'?
What does her father in law's land holdings have to do with anything?
Stay at home spouse due to what? A trust fund, earned income or an allowance from his father?

 

[sissi]

I have been reading a bit of the NE transcripts,it does seem Priscilla found the Paugh and Ramsey families to be very snobbish during her stay in Atlanta. She mentioned this to Patsy,who was so removed from daily routine,that she couldn't address the issue,consequently they quickly dissolved their friendship.

Patsy seemed haunted by something Priscilla said,something to the effect,"I know what this is all about". Patsy wishes she would
have been more "together" and pushed the issue to understand what she meant. The emotional and physical strain was too much for Patsy, she couldn't add the White's temper tantrums to her current load. When the fog began to clear,Patsy seemed to have concerns about these behaviors and did wonder aloud if the White's played some part in her child's murder.
We can hope the police questioned the White's as thoroughly,maybe they ,one day, can give the Ramseys the
answer they need to ,"why did our good friends turn on us,and act so irrationally at a time of our need?".

IMO JMO

 

[Toth]

It has always been puzzling as to why and exactly how the Whites were able to so piss off two, repeat two, of their hosts that those hosts wanted them moved elsewhere despite the funeral situation being a poor time to deal with such issues.

However, I've always felt this goes solely to personality and social skills and not to guilt at all.