Racial disparity in Katrina insurance disuptes - but where is the fault?

[czechmate7]

But in this case, the article is saying it's not about poverty, it's a racial line. Still may impact the bank of Mom availablility.

That is the part I was trying to understand...I know NO has a high poverty rate among African Americans but there is also a poverty level with white people as well...
I guess I just don't understand what the government has to do with it or the difference between black/white poverty.

 

[reb]

<I guess I just don't understand what the government has to do with it or the difference between black/white poverty.>

nothing-- it's just that blacks want to make everything about race so they can blame the govt, society, whites, etc for their failures. (not all do this, obviously-- just WAY TOO MANY.) it got real old a LONG time ago. come on, you want to be equals? act like equals then. i'm not talking about the educated intelligent ones, so please save your hate mail. i'm talking about the rest.

 

[Nova]

<I guess I just don't understand what the government has to do with it or the difference between black/white poverty.>

nothing-- it's just that blacks want to make everything about race so they can blame the govt, society, whites, etc for their failures. (not all do this, obviously-- just WAY TOO MANY.) it got real old a LONG time ago. come on, you want to be equals? act like equals then. i'm not talking about the educated intelligent ones, so please save your hate mail. i'm talking about the rest.

Yeah, reb, that's not racist. 'Cause everyone knows only black people blame others for their failures. Only black people blame the government.

 

[Nova]

PS - I'm not a "he". Not that it should make even the slightest difference in your opinion of my opinions, and I love having a generic name because sometimes you do find interesting things out about assumptions people make - but there it is. I kinda thought my earlier post made that pretty clear.

Sorry, Details. No offense meant, I promise.

 

[Nova]

That is the part I was trying to understand...I know NO has a high poverty rate among African Americans but there is also a poverty level with white people as well...
I guess I just don't understand what the government has to do with it or the difference between black/white poverty.

czech, I don't think anyone here has made a blanket statement like "The government is entirely to blame for the poverty of some African-Americans."

Rather, the NO situation was used to "prove" that a significant number of blacks refuse to help themselves. Some of us feel that the lesson here, if any, is that in this case the government failed to reach out to NO blacks in the most productive way.

NOBODY has claimed that the situation cited at the beginning of this thread is evidence of willful and conscious racism. Even the insurance companies have been assumed to act from greed, not racism.

 

[Nova]

So, what you're saying is that if you start out at or below a certain point don't bother trying to work yourself up?

No, I was saying that if the runners start from different points, where they are right now doesn't necessary tell us anything about how hard they are running.

 

[Nova]

It's even earlier in equal rights for women - especially in the job arena.

And I make no conclusion about "sitting still" and who is or isn't. I'm just saying that not trying to progress means no motion. If you are white, and upper class, you sit still in a pretty nice neighborhood. If you are black and/or lower class, sitting still leaves you in a bad spot. Assuming that because of who you are or where you came from, you won't be able to get fair treatment keeps you sitting still. Deciding that you're going to go off and become a criminal pushes you farther downhill. Working to improve, trying even if you think the system is rigged will push you uphill. Here, the government is holding out a hand, and people are saying - nope, not interested - how can that be blamed on the government?

PS - I'm not a "he". Not that it should make even the slightest difference in your opinion of my opinions, and I love having a generic name because sometimes you do find interesting things out about assumptions people make - but there it is. I kinda thought my earlier post made that pretty clear.

Details, I'm not sure what you are arguing. I'll be happy to agree that the attitudes of EVERYONE affects his/her ability to succeed. Certainly, prominent African Americans have loudly questioned whether some opinions widely held by black people may be counterproductive.

But you started with a bold statement that large numbers of black people CAN'T be helped because they simply refused to change their attitudes. My response is that those attitudes may be based in reality and are not simply willful self-destruction.

The difference is: your way, there's no solution so we are relieved of the need to try.

My way, we need to work harder to get the message out. And why isn't that just as much the government's job as providing cash?

 

[Details]

Sorry, Details. No offense meant, I promise.

None taken. Just thought I'd mention it, since on this topic it had some bearing on my personal experiences.

 

[Details]

Details, I'm not sure what you are arguing. I'll be happy to agree that the attitudes of EVERYONE affects his/her ability to succeed. Certainly, prominent African Americans have loudly questioned whether some opinions widely held by black people may be counterproductive.

But you started with a bold statement that large numbers of black people CAN'T be helped because they simply refused to change their attitudes. My response is that those attitudes may be based in reality and are not simply willful self-destruction.

The difference is: your way, there's no solution so we are relieved of the need to try.

My way, we need to work harder to get the message out. And why isn't that just as much the government's job as providing cash?

I think I'm not saying they CAN'T be helped, simply that it's their choice whether or not to be helped in this situation, and I think the government tried plenty hard enough to get the message out. Beyond a certain point, people need to be listening.

And that there are often misconceptions among black people that white people are just winning because they're white, when in a case like this, it's that misperception that makes the difference. That misperception that causes some to just give up, not to accept help (they said even had they heard about it, they wouldn't have bothered), not to protest bad treatment, not realizing that everyone is being treated badly, but those who make a fuss about it get better treatment - then it looks like racism because more black people resign themselves to the bad treatment, more white people put up a fight, use the resources available to everyone.

The stats on this one showed that the attitudes were not based on reality. Things like the study showing how much better equally black applicants from Africa did shows that we are not talking anymore about merely racism and bias, we are talking about ground in problems in culture and such, and for that, new approaches are needed - and I think that holding people responsible for making an effort to try is better than telling them it's someone else's responsibility to communciate even harder.

 

[Masterj]

<I guess I just don't understand what the government has to do with it or the difference between black/white poverty.>

nothing-- it's just that blacks want to make everything about race so they can blame the govt, society, whites, etc for their failures. (not all do this, obviously-- just WAY TOO MANY.) it got real old a LONG time ago. come on, you want to be equals? act like equals then. i'm not talking about the educated intelligent ones, so please save your hate mail. i'm talking about the rest.

Wow. Just...WOW. At least we all now know how you really feel.

 

[CyberLaw]

Let's just say that I am a black women. Of modest means. I "expect to be treated equal, want to be treated equal, demand to be treated equal, expect to be treated equal.

But, it is up to the "other person" to treat me equal, just because I "know" that this is what I want, does not mean this is how I am going to be treated.

One of the key problems here, the Government "tried" to get the message across to "everyone" by TV, radio, computer, etc. But a lot of "person of colour" had no access at all to any form of communication.

But maybe, just maybe, when the "well off" white family was staying at Mom and Dad"s as Mom and Dad have a "fairly" large house, in another area of NO, then of course they would have been able to "receive" the message.

Also a couple were quoted as saying: If we did not have money in the bank to "wait out the appeal" for a larger amount, then we would have had no choice but to accept the first offer.

So if person does not have "resources", is poor, desperate, has no savings, no money, well of course, they are going to be "somewhat happy" with just getting money, not enough of course, but some.

In my opinion, white people are "not used" to injustice, black may be "engrained" to accept "injustice because they have suffered so much of it historically".

The white couple had to "go through" hoops and then some to have an increased settlement, I doubt very much that a "person" who may have had "no higher" learning opportunity of doing the same. They would have to know much, much more education then they have to do the same.

Please don't even think that a person is not a "product" of their environment, neighbourhood, community, because they are.

 

[czechmate7]

As harsh as this may sound there is some truth to it.

 

[Karole28]

But maybe, just maybe, when the "well off" white family was staying at Mom and Dad"s as Mom and Dad have a "fairly" large house, in another area of NO, then of course they would have been able to "receive" the message.

Yeah, cause poor people don't have families who have televisions sets or radios.

Those are reserved for the large white well off families.


You guys do understand that hundreds of (to quote Wolf Blitzer) the "so poor and so black" people left NO after the hurricane, realized they had it better wherever they were transplanted and never went back. Right?


What are the statistics for neighboring states and counties?

 

[Karole28]

Never mind, went back and reread the article. This is utter BS. You're telling me that these people were "disconnected from govt"??

Puleeze. I've been educated by legal aliens (here on VISAs and other's who know more about our system than I will have or have ever known.

Check out the selling of Soc. Sec. numbers in the poorer districts.

 

[Nova]

The stats on this one showed that the attitudes were not based on reality.

True, but everyone's perception of reality is based in personal and communal experience. That's what some of us are trying to say. Your stat that recent immigrants from Africa often fare better precisely proves MY point: those recent arrivals have a different history.

As Cyber has so eloquently shown us in her stunningly to-the-point posts, "race" and "racism" are far more complicated issues than the amount of melanin somebody has.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Never mind, went back and reread the article. This is utter BS. You're telling me that these people were "disconnected from govt"??

Puleeze. I've been educated by legal aliens (here on VISAs and other's who know more about our system than I will have or have ever known.

Check out the selling of Soc. Sec. numbers in the poorer districts.

Have you heard of the term "disenfranchised." What do you think it means? Who does it apply to?

Are you saying the disparity in the polls is a result of "character flaws" of the African Americans?

 

[Karole28]

Have you heard of the term "disenfranchised." What do you think it means? Who does it apply to?

Are you saying the disparity in the polls is a result of "character flaws" of the African Americans?

I have heard of that word, actually. The last time I heard it mentioned was when our less melanin challenged brethren were kept away from the polls by guard dogs. What in the world are you referring to and did you even mean to respond to my post??

 

[Nova]

I have heard of that word, actually. The last time I heard it mentioned was when our less melanin challenged brethren were kept away from the polls by guard dogs. What in the world are you referring to and did you even mean to respond to my post??

I think she means that when a group of people have become accustomed to being "disenfranchised," they may understand government initiatives differently than you or I do. No matter how many TV channels they get.

 

[Nova]

"it's just that blacks want to make everything about race so they can blame the govt, society, whites, etc for their failures. (not all do this, obviously-- just WAY TOO MANY.) it got real old a LONG time ago. come on, you want to be equals? act like equals then. i'm not talking about the educated intelligent ones, so please save your hate mail. i'm talking about the rest."

As harsh as this may sound there is some truth to it.

There is also "truth" in the statement that white Americans are greedy, selfish racists. But the statement is so ridiculously broad and completely untrue in so many cases, it is not a useful assertion.

 

[Karole28]

I think she means that when a group of people have become accustomed to being "disenfranchised," they may understand government initiatives differently than you or I do. No matter how many TV channels they get.

I read it 3 times trying to make it make sense. Thank you.

But, wouldn't you agree that the people who use our government's resources (read: ours) the most, would certainly be open and willing to utilize them in this situation?

I think we're being awfully naive to believe that they didn't understand the process, or didn't have access to pertinent information in a timely manner.

I would not know how to begin navigating our public assistance. Thank God, have never needed to learn, but I know people who could show me how to take the most advantage of them, in a whit.