Racial disparity in Katrina insurance disuptes - but where is the fault?

[czechmate7]

There is also "truth" in the statement that white Americans are greedy, selfish racists. But the statement is so ridiculously broad and completely untrue in so many cases, it is not a useful assertion.

I won't disagree with you...but, are you implying that white Americans are the only ones who are greedy, selfish racists?

 

[Karole28]

I won't disagree with you...but, are you implying that white Americans are the only ones who are greedy, selfish racists?

I'd say the guilt handed down from our forefathers (thanks, dead guys!) ensures we're not nearly as "greedy" as portrayed.

Please look up the millions (billions?) of dollars raised privately, post Katrina. post 9/11, post Taiwan tsunami, post earthquake in India, etc.

We're notoriously giving peoples. I just think we're suffering whiner's fatigue.

 

[jannuncutt]

I'd say the guilt handed down from our forefathers (thanks, dead guys!) ensures we're not nearly as "greedy" as portrayed.

Please look up the millions (billions?) of dollars raised privately, post Katrina. post 9/11, post Taiwan tsunami, post earthquake in India, etc.

We're notoriously giving peoples. I just think we're suffering whiner's fatigue.

Americans contributed to those causes - not just white Americans.

 

[Karole28]

Americans contributed to those causes - not just white Americans.

Right, I'd better go back and take out the part of my post where it said "only white people gave to the following causes".

Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[jannuncutt]

Right, I'd better go back and take out the part of my post where it said "only white people gave to the following causes".

Thank you for pointing that out.

Did I miunderstand your response to the previous poster?

 

[czechmate7]

Did I miunderstand your response to the previous poster?

The other post didn't say that black Americans didn't give to the causes mentioned....you made the assumption that the post refered to only white Americans...I'm not sure, but I think there was a hint of sarcasm in the response..

 

[Karole28]

Did I miunderstand your response to the previous poster?

I have no idea, my psychic powers are on the blink, but I'll give it a shot.

I'm assuming that you're looking for a reason to accuse me of meaning that only white people gave to those causes.

Perhaps you're looking for a reason to be offended? Perhaps you're looking for insight and knowlege. I have no clue.

I do know that jumping on every possible twist to every post is why this particular subject cannot be discussed in a polite society. It's also why problems never get solved.

 

[windovervocalcords]

I have no idea, my psychic powers are on the blink, but I'll give it a shot.

I'm assuming that you're looking for a reason to accuse me of meaning that only white people gave to those causes.

Perhaps you're looking for a reason to be offended? Perhaps you're looking for insight and knowlege. I have no clue.

I do know that jumping on every possible twist to every post is why this particular subject cannot be discussed in a polite society. It's also why problems never get solved.

Perhaps, taking a less paranoid approach may work better toward solving the problems of discussing racial disparity in our country.

 

[Nova]

I won't disagree with you...but, are you implying that white Americans are the only ones who are greedy, selfish racists?

Absolutely not. I was just giving an example of the pointlessness of overbroad assertions.

 

[Nova]

I'd say the guilt handed down from our forefathers (thanks, dead guys!) ensures we're not nearly as "greedy" as portrayed.

Please look up the millions (billions?) of dollars raised privately, post Katrina. post 9/11, post Taiwan tsunami, post earthquake in India, etc.

We're notoriously giving peoples. I just think we're suffering whiner's fatigue.

I for one am not arguing that anyone needs to feel "guilt" for the sins of past generations. I'm not big on guilt as a productive emotion and, personally, I refuse to feel guilty for things I didn't do myself.

But equity is another matter and achieving equity sometimes involves more than just saying, "OK, we're not going to keep you as slaves any more" or "The money's there whether or not you know how to get it." (I'm just illustrating my point here, Karole, not accusing you of making either remark.)

As for whether we are "notoriously giving," I believe you'll find we actually give less relative to our wealth than many other industrial countries.

But the particular study that inspired this thread shows that in this case, we needed to give "smarter" not more.

 

[Nova]

I do know that jumping on every possible twist to every post is why this particular subject cannot be discussed in a polite society. It's also why problems never get solved.

I don't want to get in the middle of your discussion with another poster.

But on the whole, I thought we were doing a good job of not throwing epithets at one another. At least so far, nobody's called me a "bleeding heart liberal." Maybe ya'll are just thinking it.

 

[Karole28]

I for one am not arguing that anyone needs to feel "guilt" for the sins of past generations. I'm not big on guilt as a productive emotion and, personally, I refuse to feel guilty for things I didn't do myself.

I agree, it's unhealthy. However, we are constantly being bombarded by suggestive statements that we should feel ashamed of our color, ashamed of our wealth, ashamed of our status as a nation, even.

Go to any college campus and watch the wealthy young people rallying around Che Guevera signs, they have no idea what he did or even stood for. They just know him to be a status symbol for the poor and "underprivileged". I won't even get started on my feelings for the word above in quotes.

But equity is another matter and achieving equity sometimes involves more than just saying, "OK, we're not going to keep you as slaves any more" or "The money's there whether or not you know how to get it." (I'm just illustrating my point here, Karole, not accusing you of making either remark.)

I completely understand what you're saying (and take no offense) but, we also have to remember that the "poor" of our nation are by far and away wealthier than the poor of other nations. Schooling (granted in the poorer inner cities, this isn't great, but that needs to be handled locally and is often due to mismanagement than underfunding), grants, public assistance with housing, food and education, etc.

As for whether we are "notoriously giving," I believe you'll find we actually give less relative to our wealth than many other industrial countries.

I'd have to see some studies on this. I am always shocked at how giving we are.

But the particular study that inspired this thread shows that in this case, we needed to give "smarter" not more.

I agree with this with every fibre of my being.

 

[Karole28]

Perhaps, taking a less paranoid approach may work better toward solving the problems of discussing racial disparity in our country.

Just cause you're paranoid, doesn't mean....



I don't think I'm being paranoid, seriously. But, I knew from the moment this thread was borne, we'd see this kind of hand wringing.

There is always offense to be taken with something. If you look hard enough, you'll find a reason to stop the dialogue.

(not the you, as in you, the you as in we)

 

[BarnGoddess]

Speaking as a white woman who has been around for a little while, I can tell you that it doesn't matter who you are to the insurance industry. When I was newly married and 20, a truck backed into my legally parked car. I followed the rules and filed a claim only to be told that the truck's insurer determined that he was not at fault, even if he did get a ticket. Sorry, no check. Mentioned this to a friend who referred me to her lawyer. He wrote a letter to the insurance carrier and almost by return mail, I had a check......

Reason? Insurance companies count on the 50/50 rule. They figure their chances are 50/50 you'll believe what they say or offer and just go away never to be heard from again. I learned a valuable lesson early in my adult life. I was prepared to lose and I was educated and intelligent and not poor. But I was prepared to be bamboozled, and almost was.

Ever since that lesson, I have fought insurance companies left and right. Currently, the BarnGod who had a hip replacement due to someone else's negligence. I am dealing through our attorney. Now the old gentleman who caused the accident has totally accepted blame and told his insurance company that. When I received a call from their claims adjuster, the first thing out of her mouth was: "We may find our client was not at fault, even though he says he is". You just know what went through my head after all these years. Yep, the next call was to our attorney............

This is just to give you a different view. All of us regardless of our color or financial circumstances can and will be cheated if we allow the system to do so.

I would be willing to bet there are some middle to upper middle class people who allowed themselves to be cheated out of their full insurance reimbursement as well as those in lesser circumstances.

 

[windovervocalcords]

Speaking as a white woman who has been around for a little while, I can tell you that it doesn't matter who you are to the insurance industry. When I was newly married and 20, a truck backed into my legally parked car. I followed the rules and filed a claim only to be told that the truck's insurer determined that he was not at fault, even if he did get a ticket. Sorry, no check. Mentioned this to a friend who referred me to her lawyer. He wrote a letter to the insurance carrier and almost by return mail, I had a check......

Reason? Insurance companies count on the 50/50 rule. They figure their chances are 50/50 you'll believe what they say or offer and just go away never to be heard from again. I learned a valuable lesson early in my adult life. I was prepared to lose and I was educated and intelligent and not poor. But I was prepared to be bamboozled, and almost was.

Ever since that lesson, I have fought insurance companies left and right. Currently, the BarnGod who had a hip replacement due to someone else's negligence. I am dealing through our attorney. Now the old gentleman who caused the accident has totally accepted blame and told his insurance company that. When I received a call from their claims adjuster, the first thing out of her mouth was: "We may find our client was not at fault, even though he says he is". You just know what went through my head after all these years. Yep, the next call was to our attorney............

This is just to give you a different view. All of us regardless of our color or financial circumstances can and will be cheated if we allow the system to do so.

I would be willing to bet there are some middle to upper middle class people who allowed themselves to be cheated out of their full insurance reimbursement as well as those in lesser circumstances.

How do we account for the racial disparity in the insurance claims related to Katrina?

 

[czechmate7]

How do we account for the racial disparity in the insurance claims related to Katrina?

Was there racial disparity? I personally don't believe so...

 

[Details]

How do we account for the racial disparity in the insurance claims related to Katrina?

No racial disparity was reported. The insurance companies equally tried to underpay everyone. When claims were protested, with the help of the government or without, the insurance companies and the government equally helped everyone, the increase in the claim payout was not racially biased.

Distribution of information was not either - it was focused more on the poor areas, since they knew that was a problem they had had in the past.

The racial disparity is in the reaction of the people filing the claims.

 

[BarnGoddess]

How do we account for the racial disparity in the insurance claims related to Katrina?

Ooooppps, Wind, I didn't mention it because I didn't think it mattered. But that friend who referred me to her attorney, was my supervisor at my first job with the US government. She was black and so was the attorney. This was back in about 1965.

My bad. I guess I wasn't looking for any racial disparity. When you go out into the cold, cruel world, you need to learn to look out for yourself. If you have to wherewithall to own a home and purchase insurance to cover losses on that house, then you should accept the responsibility to ensure you are adequately compensated. With all the recent news, I would hope that those who felt cheated are urged to contact the LA Insurance Commissioner for information on how to get it corrected. Yes, I have resorted to Insurance Commissioners when I was treated unfairly by insurance companies. It works like a charm. Insurors are scared to death of having bad things in their files.

My post was to get back to why some people do not get treated fairly by insurance companies.

 

[Details]

True, but everyone's perception of reality is based in personal and communal experience. That's what some of us are trying to say. Your stat that recent immigrants from Africa often fare better precisely proves MY point: those recent arrivals have a different history.

As Cyber has so eloquently shown us in her stunningly to-the-point posts, "race" and "racism" are far more complicated issues than the amount of melanin somebody has.

See, there I think we're trying to make the same point - exactly that - it's not a matter of "people are racist so black people can't get ahead" - it's a matter of "black people expect racism so much that they can't get ahead". That's exactly the point I was trying to make - that there's a racial disparity here - but it's not because the insurance companies were racist. It's not because the government was racist. It's not because of any racism in any of the players in paying out the money.

It's about beliefs and hopelessness that are not founded in reality (in at least this instance - racism is real, but not the problem this time), it's about a self-fulfilling prophecy that if you believe you'll get less, and that fighting will do nothing, then it becomes true because you decide not to fight.



But the thing is, this is becoming a huge, huge problem, a huge part of what hurts black people in America. Racism is still alive - but the bigger problem, IMHO, is people giving up, deciding they can't get into college, that they'll probably be rejected for the job, that education won't matter in their lives, that the best they can do is to be at the top of a gang, or a successful drug dealer - with the superstar and largely illusatory possibility of being a music star or pro athlete. This belief, this culture, this whatever we want to call it holds black people down more than the KKK could ever hope to - and while it's historically based, it's wrong, and the only people who can fix it are not white, are not government! How can gov't do anything to help it, when their help is refused? And there's nothing to do about it - it's a simple choice of what you believe - reality, or a mutated, hopeless form of reality.

 

[Karole28]

I don't want to get in the middle of your discussion with another poster.

But on the whole, I thought we were doing a good job of not throwing epithets at one another. At least so far, nobody's called me a "bleeding heart liberal." Maybe ya'll are just thinking it.

Yeah, well. Your bleeding heart liberal-ness did come up in the "thought chat" we've been having. I stood up for you though, I told them that for someone so wrong headed, you seemed like an ok person.

So, ya got that goin for you.

A'course, that was before I read this.

:slap: