Ramsey house for sale again

[Ames]

The security system was old, and the main problem was when it went off it was loud. Boulder bragged about no murders, but there was plenty of crime--particularly burglaries due to the rise in drug use. A security expert should have been brought in when the house was remodelled. Even with the security system, the basement windows weren't armed, and at least one window had an unsecured grate. It's crazy to spend that kind of money and ignore the security.

I said that I found it "believable" that they disconnected their alarm system, not that I agreed with it.

 

[Ripley007]

If I were offered a million to stay in there for one week, I wouldn't do it.

I SO agree. While I find this home very beautiful, I couldn't overcome the thought/fear that it was haunted by JBR since she surely isn't "resting in peace". Has anybody actually lived in this home after the R's? Any FB from them? Curious.

 

[DeeDee249]

I SO agree. While I find this home very beautiful, I couldn't overcome the thought/fear that it was haunted by JBR since she surely isn't "resting in peace". Has anybody actually lived in this home after the R's? Any FB from them? Curious.

The home has been lived in for years, by at least 2 families. NO one has reported any evidence that JB, or any other entity from the Other Side is in residence.
JB is resting in peace. From where she is, she couldn't care less about this case, including whether her killer is ever discovered.
Like all children who die, no matter the cause, she died in innocence. And so she remains.

 

[Tadpole12]

Like all children who die, no matter the cause, she died in innocence. And so she remains. - DeeDee

Hi DeeDee.

That's a comforting, lovely thought.

 

[DeeDee249]

Like all children who die, no matter the cause, she died in innocence. And so she remains. - DeeDee

Hi DeeDee.

That's a comforting, lovely thought.

I talk to dead people.

 

[Tadpole12]

Hey DeeDee.

How so?

Through prayer, psychic, in your dreams?

 

[DeeDee249]

Hey DeeDee.

How so?

Through prayer, psychic, in your dreams?

All three. Sometimes they talk back.

 

[passionflower]

But there is still NO WAY I could live in a house where anyone was murdered.........
just me...........

 

[Tadpole12]

Ty for your reply DeeDee.

That's very cool.
The dead have never appeared in my dreams, atleast in dreams that I remember.

 

[dalcanton]

WOW! Thanks! That was just plain eerie. It is a very beautiful home, but I wouldn't live in it, even if somebody paid ME. I wonder why the last owners are selling it. That makes HOW MANY times that house has been sold, in the last 12 years??

I would love to stay in that house. They wouldn't even have to pay me. It's an infamous site. If I had the money, I'd buy the house.

 

[luvbeaches]

We were in Boulder last month so we took a drive by the Ramsey house (also went down the alley in back). I'd forgotten just house close the houses are to one another, and how close the house is to the street. When you look at the old media coverage, it looks like the house is set back quite a good way from the street, but it's not.

We also went by the old Mork and Mindy house.

 

[DeeDee249]

Just reinforces how easy it would have been to see and hear an intruder that night. Christmas or not, it really wasn't that late when this happened. TOD around midnight- plenty of people still awake and about.

 

[Sophie]

Another ignorant question! Is there a central registry in US states where anyone can get copies of deeds to a house and do you deeds normally go into much detail about floor plans? And would a record be kept of who was accessing the deeds? Would these have been online in 1996?

A woman in my book group (IDI) wondered whether the perp had got copies of the deeds and gained some familiarity with the house through those.

 

[Maikai]

Another ignorant question! Is there a central registry in US states where anyone can get copies of deeds to a house and do you deeds normally go into much detail about floor plans? And would a record be kept of who was accessing the deeds? Would these have been online in 1996?

A woman in my book group (IDI) wondered whether the perp had got copies of the deeds and gained some familiarity with the house through those.

The deeds wouldn't help. They are filed in the Register of Deeds office in the County the property is located in. It would be very unusual to have a floor plan with the Deed. Many Counties have the Deeds available online. I remember reading way back that the remodelled plans were not available to the public.....they were filed so the public could not access them.

The house is not that complicated. There is the original bungalow house, with a basement underneath that part only. It was expanded and popped up with a big rectangular box. The Ramseys bedroom was on the 3rd floor.....other bedrooms on the second. It would be obvious which room was JonBenet's. Question in my mind is John Andrews bedroom---how would someone know that room wouldn't be occupied that night? Perhaps some familiarity with the family? Or could he have been unsure, and returned to the basement? Some think John Andrews bedroom was used as a lookout by the perp. Lou Smit pointed out the dust ruffle looked disturbed...and there was a bag of rope left in the room at some point in time. There supposedly were suitcases on the bed that Patsy was packing.

 

[Maikai]

We were in Boulder last month so we took a drive by the Ramsey house (also went down the alley in back). I'd forgotten just house close the houses are to one another, and how close the house is to the street. When you look at the old media coverage, it looks like the house is set back quite a good way from the street, but it's not.

We also went by the old Mork and Mindy house.

You're right about the media coverage on the house---it wasn't in a gated, or even exclusive community. A whole hodgepodge of expanded homes, bungalows, student housing, and transcient area not that far away. There is also an alley in back, that was very dark when I went by the house many years ago.

I met one of the owners of the Mork and Mindy house on a historical tour in Boulder. They were paid an extraordinarily low amount of money (around $500) for the program to use the house at the beginning of the show. They installed a fence, because people would come right up to the house and peer in the windows at all times of the day.

 

[Sophie]

The deeds wouldn't help. They are filed in the Register of Deeds office in the County the property is located in. It would be very unusual to have a floor plan with the Deed. Many Counties have the Deeds available online. I remember reading way back that the remodelled plans were not available to the public.....they were filed so the public could not access them.

The house is not that complicated. There is the original bungalow house, with a basement underneath that part only. It was expanded and popped up with a big rectangular box. The Ramseys bedroom was on the 3rd floor.....other bedrooms on the second. It would be obvious which room was JonBenet's. Question in my mind is John Andrews bedroom---how would someone know that room wouldn't be occupied that night? Perhaps some familiarity with the family? Or could he have been unsure, and returned to the basement? Some think John Andrews bedroom was used as a lookout by the perp. Lou Smit pointed out the dust ruffle looked disturbed...and there was a bag of rope left in the room at some point in time. There supposedly were suitcases on the bed that Patsy was packing.

ty, Maikai. I can't see it being obvious where JBR slept without opening doors etc especially in the dark. Lou Smit was looking at non-virgin crime scene photos which were taken hours after the 911 call. Fleet White had been looking under the beds for JBR so most likely that's why they were ruffled. The rope is interesting but we know the Ramseys had rope from their various recreational activities, those Christmas trees and so on so it's not necessarily the case that a perp brought it.

 

[Maikai]

ty, Maikai. I can't see it being obvious where JBR slept without opening doors etc especially in the dark. Lou Smit was looking at non-virgin crime scene photos which were taken hours after the 911 call. Fleet White had been looking under the beds for JBR so most likely that's why they were ruffled. The rope is interesting but we know the Ramseys had rope from their various recreational activities, those Christmas trees and so on so it's not necessarily the case that a perp brought it.

It wasn't pitch dark in the house. There were nightlights everywhere, and the perp may have had a flashlight. JonBenet's bedroom was very girlie girlie. I remember way back also, Pam said there was something about the patio doors that was curious---but nothing more ever came out about that.

I think the rope is pertinent, because the same fibers from the bag were found on JBR. It would have been unusual for a big bag of rope to be plopped on the floor in the BR. Patsy claims it hadn't been there before.

Lou Smit's expertise is in organizing case files, and looking for details that may be important. He noticed the popcorn in the cellar room....a print on the outside window...stun gun marks...and rope. I don't think he made any conclusions--just called out what he noticed, and pursued the stun gun marks with an expert that had experience with them. Doberson concluded within a certain degree of medical certainty, that the marks were from a stun gun, based on experiments with pigs. Pigs are most similar to humans when it comes to their skin, and other biological systems.

 

[madeleine]

It wasn't pitch dark in the house. There were nightlights everywhere, and the perp may have had a flashlight. JonBenet's bedroom was very girlie girlie. I remember way back also, Pam said there was something about the patio doors that was curious---but nothing more ever came out about that.

I think the rope is pertinent, because the same fibers from the bag were found on JBR. It would have been unusual for a big bag of rope to be plopped on the floor in the BR. Patsy claims it hadn't been there before.

Lou Smit's expertise is in organizing case files, and looking for details that may be important. He noticed the popcorn in the cellar room....a print on the outside window...stun gun marks...and rope. I don't think he made any conclusions--just called out what he noticed, and pursued the stun gun marks with an expert that had experience with them. Doberson concluded within a certain degree of medical certainty, that the marks were from a stun gun, based on experiments with pigs. Pigs are most similar to humans when it comes to their skin, and other biological systems.

"Doberson said Boulder detectives visited him April 25 to ask about a 2-year-old Arapahoe County case in which the coroner exhumed the body of Gerald Boggs eight months after burial and found evidence of electrical shock in the man's skin tissue."

"They came over and showed me some pictures from the (Ramsey) autopsy and asked for my opinion, whether they could be stun gun injuries," Doberson recalled. "I told them that they could be; that was a possibility."

"Besides, he added, the only definitive way to tell if electrocution was involved in JonBenet's death is to re-examine her body and look for "very characteristic" changes in skin tissue." "You really can't tell from a photo," Doberson said."

 

[BBB167893]

Lou Smit's expertise is in organizing case files, and looking for details that may be important. He noticed the popcorn in the cellar room....a print on the outside window...stun gun marks...and rope.

Noticing is one thing. Making up his mind that they meant something is another.

I don't think he made any conclusions--just called out what he noticed,

Think again. I have an entire list of him doing just that.

and pursued the stun gun marks with an expert that had experience with them.

Once he'd found one who agreed with him, in the face of several who didn't.

Doberson concluded within a certain degree of medical certainty, that the marks were from a stun gun, based on experiments with pigs.

AFTER he said you couldn't tell from photographs AND after his debacle with Gerald Boggs.

Pigs are most similar to humans when it comes to their skin, and other biological systems.

Perhaps you've heard of my stun gun experiments?

 

[Maikai]

"Doberson said Boulder detectives visited him April 25 to ask about a 2-year-old Arapahoe County case in which the coroner exhumed the body of Gerald Boggs eight months after burial and found evidence of electrical shock in the man's skin tissue."

"They came over and showed me some pictures from the (Ramsey) autopsy and asked for my opinion, whether they could be stun gun injuries," Doberson recalled. "I told them that they could be; that was a possibility."

"Besides, he added, the only definitive way to tell if electrocution was involved in JonBenet's death is to re-examine her body and look for "very characteristic" changes in skin tissue." "You really can't tell from a photo," Doberson said."

The BPD never contacted Doberson again. Doberson got it wrong in the original autopsy of Boggs. When they found a stun gun in the trunk of a suspect's car, Doberson had the body exhumed and was able to link the stun gun with the marks on Boggs. One on the side of his face is similar to one on JBR. However, when contacted by Lou Smit, Doberson researched the world literature on stun gun marks....and then proceeded to do the experiments on the pigs, with a taser stun gun, that was most similar to the type of stun gun used on JBR.