Ramsey reaction to JonBenet's death

[Solace]

Solace,

Post your source that states JonBenet had an internal examination on any one of those visits?


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Gee UK, I don't have one. Do you think that means that you are right?

In fact, she did NOT have an internal exam, too invasive on a child of that age. I don't know about the UK, UK, but there are other things to look for besides the obvious physical reactions of being molested. I think if JonBenet had been sodomized, etc. on a daily basis, as you seem to think she was, we might have some ticks going on and then some.

PATSY AND JOHN DID NOT PLAN TO KILL THEIR DAUGHTER THAT NIGHT. IT WAS A RAGE KILLING, A MURDER OF THEIR CHILD, WHICH WAS THE RESULT OF RAGE ON SOMEONE'S PART.

Happens all the time. No big mystery. Rocket and Ames dissect this case with the facts and evidence they have, without going on some tangent with nothing to back it up. Yes, yes I know you have some speculating that there was physical abuse. You have nothing to back up Patsy and John planning this the whole day prior. You guess that she was being sodomized. Meyer never spoke to anyone about sodomy. Your speculation about JonBenet being sodomized is really irrelevant since there is nothing written about it anywhere.

Their actions suggest nothing of the sort. It is possible there was some abuse going on, possibly, I don't know - you seem to take what Cyrill Wecht says as gospel. He also believes that Jeffrey MacDonald is innocent and I KNOW Jeffrey MacDonald is 1000% guilty. So Cyrill Wecht's opinion is exactly that, one man's opinion.

Please do not ask me about internal exams as if that is going to prove your theory.

 

[Solace]

Albert18,

Probably since a pageant career, and sexual molestation, may not have been inflicted upon a boy?


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I don't know UK, at the rate you have them going, I wouldn't think it would matter if it were a boy or not.

 

[UKGuy]

Now there's something to ponder...Patsy could have put Burke through pageants like she did with JonBenet. Boys compete as well. Why didn't Patsy have Burke at dance class, with singing lessons and French lessons in between violin and piano? Why weren't there portfolios of Burke, featuring pictures of him in different outfits, taken by a professional photographer? Why wasn't she having him perform cute little song and dance numbers for the school, like she had JonBenet doing?

She talks about Burke participating to the same parades JonBenet did, dressed up in costume with the Boys Scouts handing out candy as they walked along. How did Burke manage to get a pass on being Patsy's other pet pageant project? Because he was a boy? How would the Ramsey family have been different if both Burke and JonBenet had boys, or girls?

Nuisanceposter,
Not a lot to ponder long on ... JonBenet, Patsy and Pageants are a neat fit. Burke was not being groomed to match some feminine ideal, or become a victim.


.

 

[UKGuy]

Gee UK, I don't have one. Do you think that means that you are right?

In fact, she did NOT have an internal exam, too invasive on a child of that age. I don't know about the UK, UK, but there are other things to look for besides the obvious physical reactions of being molested. I think if JonBenet had been sodomized, etc. on a daily basis, as you seem to think she was, we might have some ticks going on and then some.

PATSY AND JOHN DID NOT PLAN TO KILL THEIR DAUGHTER THAT NIGHT. IT WAS A RAGE KILLING, A MURDER OF THEIR CHILD, WHICH WAS THE RESULT OF RAGE ON SOMEONE'S PART.

Happens all the time. No big mystery. Rocket and Ames dissect this case with the facts and evidence they have, without going on some tangent with nothing to back it up. Yes, yes I know you have some speculating that there was physical abuse. You have nothing to back up Patsy and John planning this the whole day prior. You guess that she was being sodomized. Meyer never spoke to anyone about sodomy. Your speculation about JonBenet being sodomized is really irrelevant since there is nothing written about it anywhere.

Their actions suggest nothing of the sort. It is possible there was some abuse going on, possibly, I don't know - you seem to take what Cyrill Wecht says as gospel. He also believes that Jeffrey MacDonald is innocent and I KNOW Jeffrey MacDonald is 1000% guilty. So Cyrill Wecht's opinion is exactly that, one man's opinion.

Please do not ask me about internal exams as if that is going to prove your theory.

Solace,
If you are going to assert something then please back it up with some evidence.

but there are other things to look for besides the obvious physical reactions of being molested. I think if JonBenet had been sodomized, etc. on a daily basis, as you seem to think she was, we might have some ticks going on and then some.

So from the number of visits you quoted nobody noticed prior sexual abuse, yet Coroner Meyer and numerous other experts opine there was chronic sexual abuse.

Please do not ask me about internal exams as if that is going to prove your theory.

I'm happy to oblige.

.

 

[Solace]

Solace,
If you are going to assert something then please back it up with some evidence.


So from the number of visits you quoted nobody noticed prior sexual abuse, yet Coroner Meyer and numerous other experts opine there was chronic sexual abuse.


I'm happy to oblige.

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UK, I believe I asked you to back up your assertions that prove John and Patsy were planning on killing JonBenet that evening. Can you do that?

And while you are at it, back up that she was sodomized. I notice you pose these things on pretty much every post with a question mark at the end. Provide some facts that she was sodomized. I would be interested.

If a five year old child were being sodomized, someone would have noticed something unless of course they were all in on it. I guess that must be what it was. Eagle might agree with you. Not very many others I am afraid UK.

Instead of guessing, pose some facts that prove they were planning this. Otherwise it is another far fetched suspicion on your part and goes a long way to not solving this case.

 

[Ames]

Ames,

Well there is in mine, since I was not there I cannot share your certitude.

JonBenet may have been manually strangled by someone kneeling over her, or the top she was wearing was used to hold her head in place, in an attempt to force her to comply with her killers demands, her refusal may have led to her death.


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Well, thats okay...we have different opinions on what happened. But, I KNOW that she was hit on the head first. And NO I wasn't there either...BUT...as I have stated before, I know what its like to be strangled..because I have been there, and done that. And I know that its an instinct for survival to claw at your neck to try to remove the cord...so that you can breathe...JB did not do this....therefore...the headwound came first.

 

[Solace]

Well, thats okay...we have different opinions on what happened. But, I KNOW that she was hit on the head first. And NO I wasn't there either...BUT...as I have stated before, I know what its like to be strangled..because I have been there, and done that. And I know that its an instinct for survival to claw at your neck to try to remove the cord...so that you can breathe...JB did not do this....therefore...the headwound came first.

And that, as they say, is that!

 

[Albert18]

If you are going to assert she was intentional killed (the thought to kill was there before the head wound), then you need a motive.

JonBenet was Patsy's life. Wasn't she grooming JonBenet to be Miss Colorado. Wasn't JonBenet to Patsy like a boy is to his father where the father lives through his boy in sports. Some of these father's have outrageous behavior but that behavior is usually directed at people who get in the way of their son. On the pageant scene JonBenet was doing great, so why would Patsy be upset with her.

For John, why would John want JonBenet dead. Sexual abuse? If this was a case where Patsy was the mother and John was the boyfriend and there was a meth lab in the basement, then you might have something.

There is no evidence Patsy and John were monsters before the night of Dec 25th and there is no evidence they were monsters on the morning of Dec 26th or later so why are they monsters in those few hours?

When I look at John and Patsy, I don't see two murderers, I see two tap dancers.

 

[Solace]

If you are going to assert she was intentional killed (the thought to kill was there before the head wound), then you need a motive.

JonBenet was Patsy's life. Wasn't she grooming JonBenet to be Miss Colorado. Wasn't JonBenet to Patsy like a boy is to his father where the father lives through his boy in sports. Some of these father's have outrageous behavior but that behavior is usually directed at people who get in the way of their son. On the pageant scene JonBenet was doing great, so why would Patsy be upset with her.

For John, why would John want JonBenet dead. Sexual abuse? If this was a case where Patsy was the mother and John was the boyfriend and there was a meth lab in the basement, then you might have something.

There is no evidence Patsy and John were monsters before the night of Dec 25th and there is no evidence they were monsters on the morning of Dec 26th or later so why are they monsters in those few hours?

When I look at John and Patsy, I don't see two murderers, I see two tap dancers.

Albert, there is no evidence whatsoever, in their actions or any place else, that they were planning the murder of their child. It is beyond far-fetched.

I am more than willing to listen to a theory if it has some basis to it. But this is and I am sorry but just so simple a theory that I would expect it not from someone who has studied the case, but from someone who has not.

It is a staged scene from JonBenet to the basement to the note so that everyone would believe a monster came to the h ouse that night and the parents could never have done this.

 

[Ames]

If you are going to assert she was intentional killed (the thought to kill was there before the head wound), then you need a motive.

JonBenet was Patsy's life. Wasn't she grooming JonBenet to be Miss Colorado. Wasn't JonBenet to Patsy like a boy is to his father where the father lives through his boy in sports. Some of these father's have outrageous behavior but that behavior is usually directed at people who get in the way of their son. On the pageant scene JonBenet was doing great, so why would Patsy be upset with her.

For John, why would John want JonBenet dead. Sexual abuse? If this was a case where Patsy was the mother and John was the boyfriend and there was a meth lab in the basement, then you might have something.

There is no evidence Patsy and John were monsters before the night of Dec 25th and there is no evidence they were monsters on the morning of Dec 26th or later so why are they monsters in those few hours?

When I look at John and Patsy, I don't see two murderers, I see two tap dancers.

I believe that Patsy flew into an UNINTENTIONAL rage filled attack on JB. Throwing her against a tub or a sink, causing the head wound. JB, bled from her nose and possibly even her ears...started going into convulsions and then slipped into unconsciousness. Patsy freaked out....she couldn't take JB to the ER, she would be arrested on the spot. She got John involved, and they hatched an intruder did it scheme. But, an intruder isn't just going to come into someone else's home and bash someone's kid in the head, without a reason. SOOO....thats where the garotte, and paintbrush insertion comes in. Its really simple....as Solace said. I will sum it up....Patsy...in a rage...causes severe damage to JB's head...to the point of no return. Patsy freaks. Patsy summons John. They are afraid to go to jail. They decide together to make it look like "an intruder did it". THE END!

 

[BBB167893]

As a young girl...I too was strangled. I don't feel like going into the details right now..you will have to find that thread if you want them. I am lucky, I survived....BUT...I can tell you that UNLESS JB's hands were tied while she was being strangled, she would have ripped her neck to shreds trying to remove the cord...because thats what I did...and its what anyone would do when they are fighting to breathe, and for their life. Pieces of her own flesh would have been found under her nails. I do not believe that her hands were tied as she was being strangled, because there would have been some "fight marks" on her wrists....burn marks from the rope or the rope against her shirt sleeve, where she was wiggling and trying to get free to try and loosen that cord that was cutting off her airway.

Tell it like it is.

I also think the Snow White theory isn't all that unbelievable at all.

Me, neither.

In fact, she did NOT have an internal exam, too invasive on a child of that age. I don't know about the UK, UK, but there are other things to look for besides the obvious physical reactions of being molested. I think if JonBenet had been sodomized, etc. on a daily basis, as you seem to think she was, we might have some ticks going on and then some.

Don't assume that. CSAAS: Child Sexual Abuse Accommodation Syndrome.

 

[Toltec]

When my daughter was an infant, I wondered how Doctors would check for sexual abuse.

They do it nonchalantly. Most mothers keep their babies diapers on during exams for obvious reasons. The doctor tells the mother to remove the diaper so he can check for diaper rash.

My daughter is two years old now and the doctor still checks for "diaper rash."

 

[Ames]

When my daughter was an infant, I wondered how Doctors would check for sexual abuse.

They do it nonchalantly. Most mothers keep their babies diapers on during exams for obvious reasons. The doctor tells the mother to remove the diaper so he can check for diaper rash.

My daughter is two years old now and the doctor still checks for "diaper rash."

I believe that my daughter's dr. stopped checking for "diaper rash" when she was about 2 and 1/2. He hasn't checked her for "diaper rash" for a few years...she is five now.

 

[JMO8778]

Ames,

JonBenet was sexually assaulted on Christmas night because her killer decided the holiday period offered perfect circumstances, e.g. no school etc

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I've always wondered if the killer felt she needed to be silenced b/f the MI trip.Esp. if it was JB that dialed 911 on the 23rd?

 

[JMO8778]

There is not a doubt in my mind that she was hit in the head FIRST. I have a thread somewhere on this board...you would have to search for it....titled..."What It Feels Like To Be Strangled". As a young girl...I too was strangled. I don't feel like going into the details right now..you will have to find that thread if you want them. I am lucky, I survived....BUT...I can tell you that UNLESS JB's hands were tied while she was being strangled, she would have ripped her neck to shreds trying to remove the cord...because thats what I did...and its what anyone would do when they are fighting to breathe, and for their life. Pieces of her own flesh would have been found under her nails. I do not believe that her hands were tied as she was being strangled, because there would have been some "fight marks" on her wrists....burn marks from the rope or the rope against her shirt sleeve, where she was wiggling and trying to get free to try and loosen that cord that was cutting off her airway.

another thought came to mind,what if she was manually strangled with a scarf or her shirt collar while in her bed,and her head was slammed against the headboard,close to the same time?possibly that's why PR was asking if any blood was found on the 'drapes',meaning,ones on her headboard?maybe she didn't have a chance to even get her hands up to her head b/c the head injury occurred very quickly.

 

[Toltec]

another thought came to mind,what if she was manually strangled with a scarf or her shirt collar while in her bed,and her head was slammed against the headboard,close to the same time?possibly that's why PR was asking if any blood was found on the 'drapes',meaning,ones on her headboard?maybe she didn't have a chance to even get her hands up to her head b/c the head injury occurred very quickly.

One of the drape pullbacks was untied...could she have been strangled with that?

 

[Ames]

If you are going to assert she was intentional killed (the thought to kill was there before the head wound), then you need a motive.

JonBenet was Patsy's life. Wasn't she grooming JonBenet to be Miss Colorado. Wasn't JonBenet to Patsy like a boy is to his father where the father lives through his boy in sports. Some of these father's have outrageous behavior but that behavior is usually directed at people who get in the way of their son. On the pageant scene JonBenet was doing great, so why would Patsy be upset with her.

For John, why would John want JonBenet dead. Sexual abuse? If this was a case where Patsy was the mother and John was the boyfriend and there was a meth lab in the basement, then you might have something.

There is no evidence Patsy and John were monsters before the night of Dec 25th and there is no evidence they were monsters on the morning of Dec 26th or later so why are they monsters in those few hours?

When I look at John and Patsy, I don't see two murderers, I see two tap dancers.

I am losing my mind, when I first read this post...I thought that it said "two LAP dancers". I am serious. I thought that maybe you knew something that the rest of us posters didn't. LOL

 

[Solace]

Tell it like it is.



Me, neither.



Don't assume that. CSAAS: Child Sexual Abuse Accommodation Syndrome.

I understand what you are saying SD and I would never assume that a child would be silent about sexual abuse. I am not even disagreeing with the sexual abuse theory. It may very well have happened.

What I am disagreeing with is the indiscriminate posts about the "anything" goes sexual theory. It has run the gamut from sodomy to a sexual party with the neighbors and JB is the 'favor'. I understand that JB had physical qualities that point to molestation - there are also two different thoughts on that subject, although I find it extremely interesting and disturbing that she had any of these intrusions. She may or may not have been abused. I am leaning towards she was not, even with what you have posted in the past.

I believe more and more that this was a rage attack and the attacker left "her" thumb print on JB's neck when she was being pulled and in an ONGOING motion threw her against the sink and she hit her head on the edge of it where there is a rectangular shaped edging and it resulted in that wound we have seen.

For someone to leave their thumbprint on her neck, they had to have been seeing "hot white" and are not going to stop and then hit her with a flashlight. This is going to be an ongoing attack with no intermission. There is too much rage.

 

[Toltec]

Let me ask you this:

Who would be smart enough to molest, strike and strangle JonBenet and not leave any evidence behind...a nine-year-old or a grown man or woman?

Burke was 3 1/2 years old when JonBenet was born...Patsy's future Miss America.

 

[UKGuy]

Let me ask you this:

Who would be smart enough to molest, strike and strangle JonBenet and not leave any evidence behind...a nine-year-old or a grown man or woman?

Burke was 3 1/2 years old when JonBenet was born...Patsy's future Miss America.

Toltec,

You could answer both, since you are dealing with a dysfunctional household, also it may have been either a grown male or female who killed JonBenet, factor in sexual assault then the probability swings towards the male.

Those investigating the death of JonBenet have seen enough forensic evidence to convince them that JonBenet was the victim of prior sexual molestation, they also know to whose advantage it would be not to leave any forensic evidence behind, and have a theory as to why it had to be staged, rather than leaving the body undisturbed, this is why early on they ruled out either a grown man, woman, or nine-year-old intruder!