Random Thoughts and Discussion Ideas#6 About the Case

[Brini]

I would go straight to LE and the FBI and get all the help I could.

..and in addition, you'd prolly bring a sleeping bag and stay at the Cop Shop, so you could be available at all times, and on top of every change in status.

 

[Brini]

As LE has stated before in numerous past cases, if I felt that this were indeed true, I would want those with all the expertise on my side to catch the kidnappers - LE has the training, experience and resources. Me, doing my own investigative work on my own with my limited experience and resources, wouldn't stand a chance. Sorry ... not buying it ... it doesn't add up JMHO.

Also, at this point, it's confirmed that Caylee is diseased, so there's no reason for Casey to hold back info - she can now spill the beans to save herself if that were the case.

THAT'S the part that shoots the kidnap story all to h---. Once Caylee was found dead, there would be NO reason for her to "remain silent to protect Caylee."

 

[Brini]

KC was the only one, by her own admission, to have access to her daughter. She cannot prove the Nanny story. Caylee seen at 1pm with KC by her father, no Cayless by 7pm when KC is seen by AL. No job, no nanny but lots of cell phone pings to pin-point where she really was. Plus all the witnesses who have given statements to the effect that she was seen driving her own car and statements CA has given to police that put KC in her own car. Stolen gas cans. If she does not take the stand she is stuck with the statement she gave police, I would imagine. There are so many holes in her statement that she has no credibility whatsoever.

Plus, no calls, emails, texts, or snail mails to/from any
kidnapper" or "nanny." telepathic communication?

 

[The Eunice Burns]

Nobody "took" Caylee. There is no nanny. There was no kidnapping.

KC was entering Hot Body contests because she thinks it's fun. NOT because swhe was looking for the Invisinanny.

Nobody forced KC the rent to vids about kidnapping and murder on the probahly day of Caylee's murder, either.

I agree. If she wanted to try and sell that, she should have taken it down a notch, or maybe 10 notches. No jury is going to buy that a mother would go along with instructions from some nefarious person or persons and they would be capable of Hot Body contests, clubbing, and all the other "fun" KC got up to during what should have been the absolute worst time of her life-- the kidnapping of her baby. It doesn't work. If she wanted to get that defense off the ground, she should have laid low, and told LE she stayed in terror at TL's apt. waiting for word from the "kidnapper(s)" and tried to do her search w/out arousing suspicion. She blew it for the obvious reason that she is guilty and b/c she is so insistent on her own gratification, that she immediately started doing what pleased her the most.

 

[mitzi]

I agree. If she wanted to try and sell that, she should have taken it down a notch, or maybe 10 notches. No jury is going to buy that a mother would go along with instructions from some nefarious person or persons and they would be capable of Hot Body contests, clubbing, and all the other "fun" KC got up to during what should have been the absolute worst time of her life-- the kidnapping of her baby. It doesn't work. If she wanted to get that defense off the ground, she should have laid low, and told LE she stayed in terror at TL's apt. waiting for word from the "kidnapper(s)" and tried to do her search w/out arousing suspicion. She blew it for the obvious reason that she is guilty and b/c she is so insistent on her own gratification, that she immediately started doing what pleased her the most.

BBM

ITA with you, especially the bolded part above. KC is all about KC.

BTW, Welcome...great first posts! :blowkiss:

 

[essies]

Maybe- she entered the hot body contest cause there was a better view of the club when you're up on a table!
And CA said she was there for work (as a shot girl)-not partying!:bang:
And she'll prolly say she watched those movies from BB for research to help find Caylee!:furious:
Lord give us strength!raying:

 

[Brini]

Brini, the point of my post was for everyone to point out what evidence beyond the partying and sleeping around might lead to conviction. Some people have pointed out some important evidence such as:

Not calling police regarding missing daughter
Parents, cadaver dog, homocide detective AND tests saying decomp odor in trunk

Anyway, I was hoping we could put together a complete list of stuff not related to partying/behavior that would demonstrate guilt. Then I wanted to see how the defense might refute it. We already know the defense says there is NO EVIDENCE against Casey. What if, like the in the Sommers' case, this turns out to be true and the decomp odor was not human decomp but is proven to be something else? Remember the first two sets of forensics on the odor contradicted each other, so I'm wondering what Henry Lee's tests might have shown the defense. How will this affect this case in court if Casey's behavior is left out of the mix?

Henry Lee has been discredited, for pinching evidence during the Spector trial. And, for botching his testimony.

The labs that LE used-- the Body Farm, and the others are top of the line with international credentials. Also, the FBI an some of the stuff through THREE state-of-the-art labs.

So:

1) I doubt that JB can come up with anything better than the FBI's choices, and,
2) KC's behaviors will not be excluded, because they show cosnciousness of guilt (at some points) and indifference to her child (at others).
3) KC told LE that her partying was "her investigation." So, it's evidence.

Sorry, but there is a mountain of evidence the size of Annapurna against KC. JB will not be able to wish it away.

 

[Brini]

I can't think of a motive anyone would have had for killing little Caylee, not even Casey. Not a real motive, in the sense of the word.

I've recently been doing some studying on wrongly convicted people and the convictions or near convictions that were over turned. One happened because there was an LE who had a conscious and didn't just want to pin a crime on the most likely available person. He found evidence about the person in question that exonerated him. Instead of keeping quiet to make a pretty case, he fought for the man and won. An innocent man was able to go home to his family after a year in jail because of it. This happened in Davie Florida circa 1994. That's just one case! There are many others that looked "open & shut" but weren't. Another case involved a military man whom seemed the perfect suspect of who killed his wife & 3 kids. Turned out later to be a copy cat killing. A teenaged girl had fallen in love with a convicted criminal who really had killed his wife & kids, but convinced the teenager to kill this other family so that LE would let him go because the "crimminal" was still on the loose. Almost worked too!
If you were one of the people who was picked for the jury, that last thing anyone would want to hear is that you think KC is guilty because you didn't like the way she wore her shirt!!!

I don't think we will be hearing about her shirt. I think we will be hearing about the mountain of evidence against her.

We didn't hear about Scott Peterson's shirt, either. Was he innocent. too?

BTW-- Most of the people who are being let loose from jail were convicted before we have the tech.. especially the DNA tech, that we have now.

 

[The Eunice Burns]

I don't think we will be hearing about her shirt. I think we will be hearing about the mountain of evidence against her.

We didn't hear about Scott Peterson's shirt, either. Was he innocent. too?

BTW-- Most of the people who are being let loose from jail were convicted before we have the tech.. especially the DNA tech, that we have now.

ITA. I'm a cynic to my core, I know. But, I think it bears bringing out, that setting DNA evidence aside that proves the innocence of people who are wrongly convicted, I'm not so convinced that some of these people (again, not involving DNA) are really innocent of their crimes. I think many have been released on technicalities on appeal. It doesn't mean they were innocent, it means they got to walk free b/c of a mistake, or a judge who renders an inexplicable ruling, etc. Of course, I am not a lawyer, just a cynic.

 

[essies]

I can't think of a motive anyone would have had for killing little Caylee, not even Casey. Not a real motive, in the sense of the word.

I've recently been doing some studying on wrongly convicted people and the convictions or near convictions that were over turned. One happened because there was an LE who had a conscious and didn't just want to pin a crime on the most likely available person. He found evidence about the person in question that exonerated him. Instead of keeping quiet to make a pretty case, he fought for the man and won. An innocent man was able to go home to his family after a year in jail because of it. This happened in Davie Florida circa 1994. That's just one case! There are many others that looked "open & shut" but weren't. Another case involved a military man whom seemed the perfect suspect of who killed his wife & 3 kids. Turned out later to be a copy cat killing. A teenaged girl had fallen in love with a convicted criminal who really had killed his wife & kids, but convinced the teenager to kill this other family so that LE would let him go because the "crimminal" was still on the loose. Almost worked too!
If you were one of the people who was picked for the jury, that last thing anyone would want to hear is that you think KC is guilty because you didn't like the way she wore her shirt!!!

The way KC wore that Caylee shirt has absolutely nothing to do with why I think she is GUILTY!! Unfortunately for KC, I feel the jurors will be mature enough and intelligent enough and instructed well enough to make a decision that will give Caylee JUSTICE!
RIP Sunshine:blowkiss:

 

[CarolinaMoon]

She strikes me as the type of kid who did that to both her parents, and maybe even her brother. Was probably good at playing them off each other to make each one look like her special confidant or hero when necessary, to get her out of a temporary "bind".

It also looks like she might have been doing that with her friends with all that "omg, my gas gauge is broken, I forgot my wallet, do you have a couple of bucks I could borrow, a gas can" kind of lines that have sort of filtered through different interviews. She knew when she had crossed the line perhaps and then "bought" groceries to make it look like she was a "contributor".

When people caught on to that particular poor-me act, she probably went into stealth mode and just started stealing from them outright.

I'm not going to search all the interviews at this late hour, but ONE friend referred to her as a "mooch."

 

[RR0004]

They can TRY. I don't think it will fly.

Me neither!

 

[Capri]

I can't think of a motive anyone would have had for killing little Caylee, not even Casey. Not a real motive, in the sense of the word.
I've recently been doing some studying on wrongly convicted people and the convictions or near convictions that were over turned. One happened because there was an LE who had a conscious and didn't just want to pin a crime on the most likely available person. He found evidence about the person in question that exonerated him. Instead of keeping quiet to make a pretty case, he fought for the man and won. An innocent man was able to go home to his family after a year in jail because of it. This happened in Davie Florida circa 1994. That's just one case! There are many others that looked "open & shut" but weren't. Another case involved a military man whom seemed the perfect suspect of who killed his wife & 3 kids. Turned out later to be a copy cat killing. A teenaged girl had fallen in love with a convicted criminal who really had killed his wife & kids, but convinced the teenager to kill this other family so that LE would let him go because the "crimminal" was still on the loose. Almost worked too!
If you were one of the people who was picked for the jury, that last thing anyone would want to hear is that you think KC is guilty because you didn't like the way she wore her shirt!!!

But someone did kill her. So understanding the motive or not, she is deceased with duct tape over her mouth and nose, somebody had a motive.

 

[Jolynna]

What if the people who had taken Caylee or people who knew the people who took Caylee hung out in bars/nightclubs. Would you then go in search of the ADULTS responsible at the clubs? Try to gleen some info through the grapevine, as it were.

What if you really believed the kidnapping took place? What if they told you to act normally or they will kill Caylee, go about your normal life, ect. Many people have been told this by kidnappers, the real kind. Don't contact LE, Don't act untoward to anyone, if others ask questions tell them "...." ect.

I think you just illustrated why the Fusian pictures do need to come into evidence.

Jurors need to see Casey "searching".

 

[Jolynna]

For the life of me I can not understand why everyone thinks KCs reaction the the "found body" news is sooo damning? Either way, it is still a valid reaction.
She COULD be the mother of an abducted child who was killed right away and is hearing that there has been a body ,possibly, her child's body found ridiculously close to her home. I'd ask for a Xanax too! Why does everyone beleive that just because she was upset, it's becuase she's "been caught". It could have just been "Oh, NO! The've killed her!"

I don't have a clue if KC's response to the news of a body being found is damning or not. I haven't seen the video.

I think a video of KC crying or asking for a Xanax might create some sympathy for KC. As it is all I've seen from KC so far is stuff like "they just care about Caylee".

Casey's lawyers are the ones who have said the video would damage KC's case and inflame.

 

[snow_walker]

Real jurors are real people, like you and me. They will listen the closest to the forensic evidence, and they will say that their guilty vote is based on the death band on the hair in the trunk.

But the real truth is, that they will be listening to the whole thing.. the 31 days, the nanny story, the partying, the stealing, the pictures, the tattoo, etc.. and what one juror might let pass, the next one will tip over the edge at... just as one person had enough with the T-shirt, and the next with the hot body contest.. each person will reach the spot where they have drawn their own line in the sand.. and find KC has gone beyond whatever it may be that they find intolerable.

For me, I will let a lot of stuff pass, or give her the benefit of the doubt... on the partying, the pics...the silly nanny story even.. but I reach my personal limit and become totally disgusted with the stealing from the person she calls her best friend, .. stealing from her grandmother, stealing from her ailing Grandfather.. stealing from her own mother and father and brother.. that speaks to me of a person with no moral compass, a person so disgusting and depraved that they are capable of any and every evil deed she is accussed of committing.

Of course stealing from Grandpa's account does not mean she smothered little Caylee to death, what it does mean is that at that point I recognize her for what she is. And now I shift my attention to hearing the forensic proof of the baby's murder.

"Proved guilty by the death band on the hair".. true enough... but if she hadn't stole from her best friend and her family, I would have been less infuenced by that one piece of evidence..

I would have tried harder to see if there was any other reasonable explanation for that hair in her trunk, or some forensic mistake, but I know SOME monster killed that child.. and I can clearly see a monster sitting right here..
No need to go in search of anyone else, when you have a wolf running around in the sheep pen, there is no reason to go seach for another wolf to blame for killing the lamb.

 

[Jolynna]

Real jurors are real people, like you and me. They will listen the closest to the forensic evidence, and they will say that their guilty vote is based on the death band on the hair in the trunk.

But the real truth is, that they will be listening to the whole thing.. the 31 days, the nanny story, the partying, the stealing, the pictures, the tattoo, etc.. and what one juror might let pass, the next one will tip over the edge at... just as one person had enough with the T-shirt, and the next with the hot body contest.. each person will reach the spot where they have drawn their own line in the sand.. and find KC has gone beyond whatever it may be that they find intolerable.

For me, I will let a lot of stuff pass, or give her the benefit of the doubt... on the partying, the pics...the silly nanny story even.. but I reach my personal limit and become totally disgusted with the stealing from the person she calls her best friend, .. stealing from her grandmother, stealing from her ailing Grandfather.. stealing from her own mother and father and brother.. that speaks to me of a person with no moral compass, a person so disgusting and depraved that they are capable of any and every evil deed she is accussed of committing.

Of course stealing from Grandpa's account does not mean she smothered little Caylee to death, what it does mean is that at that point I recognize her for what she is. And now I shift my attention to hearing the forensic proof of the baby's murder.

"Proved guilty by the death band on the hair".. true enough... but if she hadn't stole from her best friend and her family, I would have been less infuenced by that one piece of evidence..

I would have tried harder to see if there was any other reasonable explanation for that hair in her trunk, or some forensic mistake, but I know SOME monster killed that child.. and I can clearly see a monster sitting right here..
No need to go in search of anyone else, when you have a wolf running around in the sheep pen, there is no reason to go seach for another wolf to blame for killing the lamb.

BBM...

A wolf running around the sheep pen with blood on her paws and muzzle.

Good point about how KC's coldness toward her best friend and ailing grandfather make it seem not so much of a stretch for KC to have been equally indifferent to her daughter's rights too.

 

[Intermezzo]

For the life of me I can not understand why everyone thinks KCs reaction the the "found body" news is sooo damning? Either way, it is still a valid reaction.
She COULD be the mother of an abducted child who was killed right away and is hearing that there has been a body ,possibly, her child's body found ridiculously close to her home. I'd ask for a Xanax too! Why does everyone beleive that just because she was upset, it's becuase she's "been caught". It could have just been "Oh, NO! The've killed her!"

In the case of Casey's reaction to a body being found, I compare how she Did Not react when LP had divers searching in the Econ River at Blanchard Park and "small bones were found". Casey was watching the news unfold on TV at the time and she had NO reaction.
Then comes the newsheadlines in Dec., Casey was already listening to the radio in her cell and was aware of the news reports, of a bones being found near her home and she does have a reaction.
Why the reaction to one and not the other?

 

[Sdavidson11]

If not for Casey's behaviors after the "kidnapping" and I say that with a bit of sarcasm, she may have gotten away with the murder of Caylee. My examples are from first hand experience of being kidnapped and raped vs Casey's storyline from her script.

When I was kidnapped the man used duct tape to put over my eyes, nose and mouth. He then duct taped me to the bed and cut my clothes off with a 13" knife. I was able to see him for about 5 seconds when I walked through the door before he put the gun to my head and knife to my throat. I was able to give an accurate description of his height, weight, hair cut and color, scar on his face from acne, shoe size, waist size, eye color and no tattoo's and the fact that I thought he was an escaped Jail inmate since he was wearing my husbands clothes, which he was. My description was so accurate, the police questioned me more because they thought I knew him, which I didn't. Casey supposedly knew Zanny for 4-6 years depending on the interview and we heard of only a generic description from her and of course the A's perfect 10 recollection. In my opinion there is no Zanny. The duct tape over Caylee's face may have been staged to look like a stranger kidnapping, but with the No Clothes Party duct tape of AH that Casey "lost" I have no doubt in my mind it was used on the poor little girl by her mother. I can tell you that duct tape over the face is an indescribable experience that no person should ever have to suffer, especially a baby.

I too was told not to call the police by my kidnapper or he would kill me and I was Casey's age of 22 years old at the time. The first thing I did once I was free of the duct tape was run to my neighbors house naked, as he cut all the phone lines and took our phones, banged on the door to ask for a phone to call the police. There is no way I would have waited, even if I had a child at the time that he took with him, especially not 31 days to call the police, if he had my child after I called the police I too would be looking for my child but not entering a "hot body contest". I hope that most jurors will use common sense when the defense uses this as an excuse not to call the police.

When this happened to me, I thank god I didn't have children at the time but I did have a Lhasa Apso that was like my baby. This man shot him in the head after he finished raping me. It still bothers me 20 years later. How Casey could be shopping at Target, stealing money, partying and once caught and bonded out baking cookies, having sleep overs, going to her lawyers office when Caylee hadn't been found at the time is sickening. The man that did this to me stole over $1,000 cash and our car. He went on a 10 day crime spree too. Getting a tattoo was one of the things that he did before he was caught. I may be cynical since I sort of know how Caylee felt in her last moments, but I hope Casey gets LWOP. The DP is to easy. I know people are innocent until proven guilty but Casey's actions and circumstances point to no one else but her.

It seems that in today's world the victims of crime are the forgotten ones. The people that murder, rape and steal have their constitutional rights, while the victims are sidelined and hope for the best outcome. This perp especially has the best defense money can buy and all we can hope for is justice for Caylee! I am not one to complain and have always tried to get on with my life, there is always a piece of me missing that my experience with violence took away from me. I don't say this for a pity party but to let others know the toll that a violent crime can have on a person and there family. That is also why the A's foundation is such a scam in my eyes. There daughter has not even been to trial and they are starting a foundation? It took me over 5 years just to be able to talk to other people, let alone what I went through. Let me just say that I hope and pray we see Justice for Caylee!!

 

[Intermezzo]

Maybe it is because the one who made the decision that the public should not view it was the Judge and I believe he is the one that said the tape was too inflamatory. And, of course there is the fact that when there was a report that small bones were found in the JBPark KC had no reaction. Since she told her brother the abduction REALLY happened at JBPark you would think that would have gotten some type of a reaction.....nothing, nothing, just returned to her cell with no reaction whatsoever. That leaves people to believe that only the killer would know for sure the body was that of Caylee.
There has been a lot of information compiled on this website by many professionals and non-professionals who have been very diligent about getting their facts right. There are others who just like to speculate. If you have followed the case from the beginning there would be little doubt in your mind that anyone other than KC was involved in the disappearance and death of her daughter. JMO

Good post Lambchop
I can not push aside Casey's lack of reaction to news headlines of small bones being found at Blanchard Park and then react to the news of bones being found on Suburban drive.