Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #2

[Tulessa]

Isn't this kind of like 'She was wearing a mini skirt so she deserved being raped' argument? Why is the onus of responsibility placed on victims simply to remove it from a perpetrator? We all make mistakes in life - some with devastating consequences - because, unfortunately, life doesn't come with a crystal ball. This is about a man in a position of power, someone who likely appeared helpful and generous, because as we know too well from too many cases - a predator purposely manipulates victims or else there simply wouldn't be any victims. How was anyone to know that he'd drug them? Please trust when I say that, if their stories are true, not only are they taking responsibility for having made a mistake and finding themselves a victim - they're also living in a hell too few understand. Every day. All day. Have a look sometime at the statistics of sexual abuse and assault victims. Find out what happens post-assault/abuse.

An emotive issue, obviously, for me. I was date raped at 15 because I put myself in a bad situation - alone with someone I trusted. I was young, naive, and stupid but I didn't deserve to be raped for it. And 23 years later I still wonder if there are others. Should I have spoken out? Could I have saved someone else going through what I did? My 14 year old niece was drugged and raped by my ex-husband. My ex-MIL to this day blames her for seducing him. A 14 year old kid, high to the moon, against a 43 year old adult male. So what should she have done differently? Not worn short shorts? Not hung out with her uncle? Not be a teenage girl who trusted someone else?

The responsibility for committing a crime is solely on the perpetrator. The victims have the luxury of a life sentence while many predators will never spend a minute in jail as sexual assault and abuse is still largely unreported, in part, because the victim experiences shame, guilt, and humiliation. They're told by society that their actions caused them to be raped. How is that fair?

:grouphug:

 

[rosemadderlake]

They couldn't do anything in terms of legal proceedings but I think everyone had a choice when it comes to how they were dealing with him.

No one had any legal obligation to invite him to talk to the students and give him honorary positions of trust but he's got a lot of honorary gestures, accolades and praise after he settled the case with Andrea Constand. "Hmm this man has been accused of raping multiple women... should we make speeches in his honor because he's such a great influence on the world and has given so much?" This was a choice many people had the opportunity to make and they chose to ignore a couple of named people and several Jane Does who were willing to testify that he sexually assaulted them and sent the world a message that it didn't matter. IMO that counts as looking away.

Bbm: You highlight a very interesting point Donjeta – I suspect BC’s PR/legal team were paid well to help stabilize and rebuild his reputation, and sweep 2006 under the rug. And because the matter was settled in 2006, and there were no criminal charges, BC’s philanthropic interests /giving continued. And yes, these gifts, while generous to the recipient institutions, came with honorary titles that further bolstered his career and the public perception of BC as benefactor.

I wonder -Did these various institutions know all the details in 2006? If some did - what counter PR measures were deployed to set a board of trustees mind at ease that the allegations were settled. Things are very quiet on the timeline in between 2006-2014, which would quell the worry about being attached to a scandal.


Did anyone know the details like this in 2006? Did anyone know the scope of the allegations, or the numbers that indicate this was way more than the counter measure PR spin of a much ‘smaller infraction’? The across the board distancing tells me that perhaps some believe their institutions were duped as well.

 

[Tulessa]

I wonder how BC was able to access all these drugs? I guess $$$$ equals connections

Remember Michael Jackson?

 

[Tulessa]

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...essorship-suspended-spelman-article-1.2045472

A historically black, liberal arts women’s college in Atlanta is finally distancing itself from benefactor Bill Cosby.

Spelman College announced it was indefinitely suspending the William and Camille Olivia Hanks Cosby Endowed Professorship, which was funded by a $20 million gift by the Cosbys in 1987, the Atlanta Journal Constitution reported.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion...des-behind-wife-race-card-20141215-story.html





http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ays-he-expects-black-media-to-remain-neutral/

Some Twitter reactions in this post.



Does the repetition and reversal of word order add something to the statement? I don't get it.
http://www.musictimes.com/articles/...-scandal-plays-race-card-divert-attention.htm

Incl video of a discussion where someone says she still wants to watch the Cosby Show with her son as the spirit of the show is positive. Another person says there are lots of artists who he wouldn't want near his family but no one's pretending that R. Kelly's music is some kind of life instructions and that's how most of what Cosby has done has been pretended. Then they talk about what he should say and somebody answers, "I didn't do it".

And these are huge!! ^^^^^^

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

from my above link:

Goins said: 'Then Bill offered to show me the room, he said he knew the way. He seemed nice and I don't remember feeling nervous or that it was weird.

'He had his arm around me to show me the way and I did notice he had been paying me a little more attention than my friend, but never thought anything of it.'

That was the last thing Goins remembers. She doesn't recall entering the room.

She claims she woke up completely naked on a bed and alleges Cosby was hunched over her licking her toes. She knew she was still in the Playboy mansion because she could hear music playing.

Disturbingly, Goins said the then 70-year-old had his trousers around his ankles and was pleasuring himself.

'I was butt naked lying on my back on a bed and didn't have any idea where I was.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ago-woman-contacted-police.html#ixzz3LzreXMsP

 

[XXXXXXXX]

I saw this nearly a month ago, but hadn't yet made up my own mind about these allegations at that time, therefore hadn't come to this thread to post.

http://news-briefs.ew.com/2014/11/21/bill-cosby-jokes-evil-man-stand-up/

Considering this performance was in front of a women's rights group, it was in astonishingly poor taste for him to pretend to cry and lament over how "evil" he is. What's even more disgusting to me, is that he got a standing bleeping ovation from a group that supposedly claims to be dedicated to uplifting and empowering women.

 

[Slebby]

One of the best twitter comments I've seen on the subject -

All these women got together, in a dark room, held flashlights up to their faces and said 'Let's take down Bill Cosby.'

 

[Donjeta]

An interesting item from the Smithsonian Cosby exhibit:

The one piece that most emphasized the surreality of this exhibit was a display of a quilt called The Ennis Quilt in honor of Bill Cosby’s son, who was murdered at 27 in 1997 by a Ukrainian immigrant who targeted him for his race. The quilt was made from Ennis’ t-shirts and other clothes by The Crossroads Quilters of Port Gibson, Mississippi. Here’s a screenshot of the quilt from the museum’s website.

The t-shirt/quilt panel read “What Part of NO Didn’t You Understand?” That’s the slogan frequently used by anti-rape activists to confront those who would rape or who try to justify rape by saying stuff like “Her lips may say ‘NO’ but her eyes say ‘YES’.”

http://sagittariusdolly.wordpress.c...-collection-of-a-comedian-and-accused-rapist/

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/15/bill-cosby-2014-celebrity-scandals

http://washingtoninformer.com/news/2014/dec/14/how-informer-scooped-everyone-bill-cosby/

Beyond Bill Cosby: 2014 was the year we stopped worshipping at the altar of monsters
From athletes in elevators and Hollywood executives in emails to ‘alleged’ sexual predators and, yes, even the fallen young men in the streets, the luxury of golden silence is gone

Exactly how did The Washington Informer, a black- and woman-owned newspaper and a member of the National Newspaper Association (NNPA), snag a conversation with Bill Cosby, most sought-after interview subject in the nation?

It proved as simple as picking up the phone and calling him

Yes, the African-American press and its journalists can be trusted to deliver a big story.

In fact, it could easily be argued that we can be counted on more than most to, as Cosby said, report with a neutral mind.

.

http://washingtoninformer.com/news/2014/dec/14/how-informer-scooped-everyone-bill-cosby/

For Friday's interview, with the backing of Ben Chavis, the NNPA and Informer Publisher Denise Rolark Barnes, this reporter had engaged in near-monthlong discussions with Cosby's lawyers and publicists, mostly via email.

It appeared that Cosby's team approved of our pitch.

"We want to work with you," the icon's attorney Martin Singer said, with the promise that he'd have some concrete plans by "early next week."
http://washingtoninformer.com/news/2014/dec/14/how-informer-scooped-everyone-bill-cosby/?page=2

Established 50 years ago, The Informer’s mission continues to be that of its founder, Dr. Calvin Rolark, to make a difference by publishing positive news about African-Americans.

Hm ok, working with Cosby's PR machine to publish positive news about an alleged African American serial rapist... I can see where they can be counted to be neutral...

Anyway, I changed my mind, I no longer think Cosby was threatening the reporter with the neutrality comment, he was stroking his ego.

http://washingtoninformer.com/news/2014/dec/14/bill-cosby-breaks-silence-calls-black-press-fair/

When reminded that The Informer has balanced its reporting of the scandal by including the perspective of his many supporters in the District's African-American community, Cosby said he'd make sure that his team treats those reporters as "royalty."

"No," Cosby insisted, "I'm telling you, I will tell [my team] to treat you as royalty."

http://www.etcanada.com/blogs/etc_122148/bill-cosby-breaks-his-silence/celebs/

There's video with the audio, I wondered if Cosby read out a rehearsed line.

The reporter says Cosby sounded upbeat and not like a person who is under any stress. (I think I'd be under stress if close to 30 people made up fake allegations about me..)

Also Beverly Johnson saying Camille Cosby hugged her endearingly, not sure when.

ETA: http://www.insideedition.com/entertainment/9412-the-day-beverly-johnson-met-bill-cosbys-wife

Johnson told INSIDE EDITION's Jim Moret, "I said, 'May I speak to Bill please?' She said, 'Well, it's kind of late.' I said, 'Just tell Bill that I will be calling back.'"

Moret asked, "Did you ever call back?"

She answered, "No."

A few years later, she says she ran into Camille at a social event.

Johnson said, "When I met her again in a social setting, she was very warm and she actually gave me a hug."

Moret asked, "What are you feelings toward Camille?"

She said, "I feel that everyone around him were victims."

Johnson told INSIDE EDITION that she didn't see Bill Cosby again for another 28 years.

It happened just a few months ago before the scandal broke as they were both rushing through an airport to catch separate planes.

Johnson explained to Moret, "He looked at me like you're looking at me now. And you know, when you see someone, you think you're going to say hello, and then you go, 'I guess I shouldn't be saying hello.' And he walked by without acknowledging me, and I didn't acknowledge him."

 

[CuriousPortlander]

‘The View’s’ Whoopi Goldberg Questions Beverly Johnson Over Bill Cosby Allegedly Attacking Her (Video)
47 minutes ago

See video here: https://tv.yahoo.com/news/view-whoopi-goldberg-questions-beverly-johnson-over-bill-204019252.html

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daniellecampoamor/how-police-and-hospitals-shut-women-down

I always thought that if I ever became a victim of sexual assault, I’d say something. I’d be the girl reporting it, sitting on a witness stand and pointing a defiant finger, just like the actresses on SVU. There wouldn’t be a second thought or a deliberate pause; I’d simply speak up because that’s, of course, what you do.
And then I became a victim of sexual assault.

 

[wendiesan]

Yeah, I always thought that that too. In addition Clinton's activities didn't qualify as a "heinous crime" by western standards, he was accused of being a philanderer not a rapist.

I agree with your analysis.

Famous men attract groupies, and some famous men take what is being offered by those groupies, even if they are married. If both parties are over the age of consent, no coercion is involved, no force is involved, no financial promises are made and both parties willingly agree to participate, then the sexual activity that ensues may be infidelity but it is not rape. Infidelity may be cruel to a person's spouse or significant other, and the repercussions of infidelity can hurt many people, but it still is not rape. Dragging the Clinton/Lewinsky affair into a discussion of rape is, IMO, really dealing with false equivalencies. As you said, Sonya610, Clinton was accused of "being a philanderer, not a rapist."

The "Clinton activities" were mutually entered into according to Lewinsky herself. ("Lewinsky: Clinton lies about relationship in his new book". USA Today. Associated Press. June 25, 2006.) At the time she was not a minor being lured into an isolated room and drugged or plied with alcohol. She was a 23 year old woman who had been already been involved in an affair with a married man, her former high school drama teacher, for several years. Lewinsky continued to be involved with the teacher during the 9 sexual encounters (her count) she had with Clinton. She did not ask for a monetary settlement from Clinton when their affair ended. However, following the disclosure of her private life to the public, Lewinsky is reported to have made about half a million dollars from the sale of Andrew Morton's book Monica's Story, and around a million from a Barbara Walters interview as part of her efforts to pay her legal bills. Not a pleasant or particularly romantic story, but not rape. Ill-advised? Embarrassing? Hurtful? Probably, but, IMO, not rape. [Sidebar: No matter how much the age difference was stressed and exaggerated at the time of the scandal, Lewinsky was not a child. She was an adult, and she has, IMO, faced the consequences of her actions with real grit and determination.]

If the allegations about Cosby prove true, what he did could amount to many counts of liquor law violations, drink spiking, drug procurement, assault, sexual assault, sexual battery, sexual luring, sexual interference, statutory rape and rape. If the allegations are true, he betrayed, violated, degraded, and humiliated the women who are now bringing their stories forward. Cosby, if the allegations are true, had nonconsensual sex with these women. Nonconsensual sex is rape.

I'll go further. If true, the descriptions of his actions indicate he was giving drugs (legal, illegal--including alcohol as a depressant) to at least some of these women with no regard for the possible negative reactions they could have had to primary effects of those drugs or to the side effects of those drugs. He literally endangered the lives of those women. A bad combination of drugs could have had--and may have had--serious complications for the physical and mental health of the women who unknowingly ingested them.

Too many accidental deaths have occurred when people combine drugs and alcohol, and, it seems to me, the possibility was certainly there in some of the stories. These alleged activities, IMO, could have meant Cosby was one step away from a manslaughter, if not a murder charge, on several occasions. Which I interpret as indifference to human life.

And I'll go further. In some cases, women have stated that they were unconscious for a period of time while, as far as they knew, they were in Cosby's sole company. When they regained consciousness they found themselves undressed or dishevelled. They actually had no recollection of what happened during that time, IIRC. So, IMO, there is a possibility that other activities could have taken place without their knowledge or consent. Were pornographic photos taken of them while they were undressed? Did anyone other than Cosby have access to their bodies? Did anyone other than Cosby see them while they were unconscious? I don't know if those allegations have yet been made by any alleged victims or their lawyers, but, I think, there may be further speculation and accusations as more details become public knowledge.

None of the allegations that have been made against Cosby--luring, assault, drink spiking, sexual assault, drug procurement--were made against Clinton by Lewinsky. Philandering is not the equivalent of committing rape.

 

[Nova]

That sounds like a perfect argument for a rapist who doesn't want to take responsibility for his own actions and wants to foist it off on someone else.
MOO.

If you're a poor harassed celebrity who is so troubled by women who want to become stars, the answer is not to grope, drug and rape them. You can tell them politely you're not willing to mentor them at this time and if they won't leave quietly, call your security or the police.

Just because someone might give me the perfect opportunity to steal, rape, harass, molest, assault, murder [insert any other crime] doesn't mean it's right and justified for me to do so.

Indeed. Could somebody quote me the part of the Ten Commandments where it says it's okay to steal, rape or murder as long as the victim does something foolish? Why does "personal responsibility" only apply to victims (and transgenders--but that's another thread)?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I still think there is more to this story. I think personal responsibility does come into play in everything in life. I think there are times when someone is assaulted and it is not at all their fault. But I also think there are times when people put themselves in dangerous situations and are reckless and have to acknowledge that.

Im still trying to separate the stories.. I still have not seen anything that pushes me to the guilty side.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

'Who is the victim?' Bill Cosby's wife attacks the media's coverage of her husband and accuses UVA 'victim' of lying about her rape claims as well

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tim-lying-rape-claims-well.html#ixzz3M0kNfeCc

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Camille has made a statement. I don't know how to post a link from my phone. She sounds like she needs to have Dottie Sandusky over for coffee (but not if Bill makes it, of course).

 

[rosemadderlake]

Here's one link...


NEW: Billy Cosby's wife Camille releases statement comparing coverage of her husband to Rolling Stone UVA rape story


https://twitter.com/CBSEveningNews/status/544608377058656256

--IMO: I didn't feel it was ok to comment about CC until she spoke out - it is an interesting statement...
--ETA: I feel bad for his family-because I don't think they knew the extent of his secret life.

 

[nrdsb4]

I still think there is more to this story. I think personal responsibility does come into play in everything in life. I think there are times when someone is assaulted and it is not at all their fault. But I also think there are times when people put themselves in dangerous situations and are reckless and have to acknowledge that.

It wouldn't be prudent for me to forget to lock my door before I go to sleep. Some might call that stupid or reckless. However, if someone trespasses into my private property and I'm robbed or physically assaulted or raped, it does not change the fact that the perpetrator is a criminal, it doesn't negate the legal or moral culpability of the person who enters my home without permission and commits robbery or violence, and his attorney doesn't get to blame the crime on me using any argument of "personal responsibility."

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Camille's statement:

I met my husband, Bill Cosby, in 1963, and we were married in 1964. The man I met, and fell in love with, and whom I continue to love, is the man you all knew through his work. He is a kind man, a generous man, a funny man, and a wonderful husband, father and friend. He is the man you thought you knew.

A different man has been portrayed in the media over the last two months. It is the portrait of a man I do not know. It is also a portrait painted by individuals and organizations whom many in the media have given a pass. There appears to be no vetting of my husband's accusers before stories are published or aired. An accusation is published, and immediately goes viral.

We all followed the story of the article in the "Rolling Stone" concerning allegations of rape at the University of Virginia. The story was heart-breaking, but ultimately appears to be proved to be untrue. Many in the media were quick to link that story to stories about my husband - until that story unwound.

None of us will ever want to be in the position of attacking a victim. But the question should be asked - who is the victim?

 

[Sonya610]

I agree with your analysis.


I'll go further. If true, the descriptions of his actions indicate he was giving drugs (legal, illegal--including alcohol as a depressant) to at least some of these women with no regard for the possible negative reactions they could have had to primary effects of those drugs or to the side effects of those drugs. He literally endangered the lives of those women. A bad combination of drugs could have had--and may have had--serious complications for the physical and mental health of the women who unknowingly ingested them.

Too many accidental deaths have occurred when people combine drugs and alcohol, and, it seems to me, the possibility was certainly there in some of the stories.

Yes. I mentioned this a few posts back. If 30 came forward there could easily be hundreds that were victimized and I would think the odds are pretty good that it DID cause a death or two. Somehow I think Mr. Crosby could justify that too, he didn't MEAN to kill her and he DOES give a lot to society so all things considered he would likely see any "accidental" deaths as just bad luck.

Some of these incidents apparently happened at wild parties (Playboy Mansion etc...) which means he likely had no idea what recreational drugs were already being used when he doped them up.

The possibility that HH knew about it came up before and many of us thought that was an unfair accusation, but it seems there are more stories about playmates being raped (including a rumor about one named Paige who killed herself, that was alluded to in an interview someone posted). One incident can be explained away (maybe HH never heard about it) but multiple incidents imply that HH had to suspect and he kept ALLOWING it to happen even in his own home.

 

[Tulessa]

'Who is the victim?' Bill Cosby's wife attacks the media's coverage of her husband and accuses UVA 'victim' of lying about her rape claims as well

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tim-lying-rape-claims-well.html#ixzz3M0kNfeCc

She's breaking her silence tonight.
https://www.facebook.com/cnn