Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #2

[Morag]

And yet there are some posters on this board who think that all of these women are liars and/or extortionists.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Barbara Bowman Speaks About Bill Cosby Sexual Abuse Allegations
By Katie J.M. Baker 2/12/14 at 9:46 AM

Were you disappointed that Andrea Constand took a settlement?
I was disappointed because I knew that would shut everybody else up, including Andrea. And although I am grateful she was able to have closure for her own growth, it sends the message to other victims that they can be shut up.

http://www.newsweek.com/barbara-bowman-speaks-about-bill-cosby-sexual-abuse-allegations-228837

Ex-prosecutor wanted to charge Bill Cosby but lacked evidence
'I couldn't check her blood'

Castor, who was the district attorney for Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, when Constand came forward in 2005, now tells CNN he thought Constand was credible, and he thought Cosby was evasive in his interview with prosecutors. Castor, whose assistants interviewed Cosby, said he felt the comedian was setting up a defense that Constand was at his house on her own volition and that anything occurring between them was consensual.
"Back then, the desire on our part to move forward was pretty strong," he said. "The problem with the case was she waited a year until she told police about it."
Since 2005, several women have come forward with remarkably similar stories about being drugged and sexually assaulted by the comedian. This year, the accusations resurfaced, and earlier this month, a seemingly harmless post on Cosby's Twitter account turned them into a social media storm.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/19/showbiz/bill-cosby-rape-allegation-prosecutor/

– It doesn’t really matter what I believe – but FYI, I do happen to believe many of the women. And I wish for them, the real victims of Cosby, and others will take away the silver lining piece – whether it is to be heard and believed, or to pass down wisdom to a younger generation, make Cosby pay for what he did in the only way they can. I get that.

I had no illusions about “Cosby as America’s Dad” because I did read about this story in 2005. I thought then that there was a very dark side to BC, the person behind the persona.

My point is the press is brutal, and it is a murky place to exact the truth about a crime. I question the press and get infuriated with the press. – On the other hand, it can also be the place that exacts the stunning truth about a crime, i.e. Watergate, and can change the course of history.

My point is there are as many who believe the allegations are a sham as those who believe the allegations unconditionally. So, what does that do for the issue of rape when women are not believed which is another matter?

I think society fails women on the issue of this horrific crime, and for some of the women coming out now, decades after the fact. Maybe the statutory laws need to be changed for all the reasons that they were silenced, that any woman feels silenced.

Some posters look at all sides – that’s all. -And wonder, after the media storm subsides what will be left standing on the platform of women’s rights.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

And yet there are some posters on this board who think that all of these women are liars and/or extortionists.

Or think if they were raped, they need to take responsibility for that themselves.

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.lfpress.com/2014/12/30/bill-cosby-tickets-a-tough-sell-online

Ticket scalpers may be the ones getting scalped at next week’s Bill Cosby show at London’s Budweiser Gardens.

In the wake of rape and sexual assault allegations by more than two dozen women against Cosby, some people are trying to unload tickets at deeply discounted prices to his Jan. 8 show at the Gardens’ RBC Theatre.

Gardens general manager Brian Ohl said there’s no change in plans to go ahead with the show and that tickets sales “have been good, actually.

“We’re selling tickets every day,” he said.

A longish essay: http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/24/bill_cosby_himself_narcissism_fame_and_sexual_violence

Let me begin by saying this: I am prepared for this essay to be a hot mess. It can’t not be a mess - how do you talk about Bill Cosby’s being accused of rape and drugging women, and not talk about stardom, and power, and racism, and sexism, and the news media, and black men, and white women, and fear, and slavery, and Jell-O, and childhood memories, and The Cosby Show, and class privilege, and rage at the first black president, and icons, and heroes, and fathers, hypocrisy, heartbreak and genius?

I’ve been trying to figure out for weeks what to write about Bill Cosby, as I listened to friends and strangers express their opinions, read articles, watched the news. I questioned those who think he is guilty, others who believe he is innocent, and asked both why. I’ve spoken to many people, but I’ve been particularly interested in the opinions of black women (the one I most wanted to hear from was Camille Cosby, until she released that horrifying statement in support of her husband). Black women stand at the intersection of race and gender politics in this country. And I’ve been surprised by women and men, white and black, who continue to defend Bill Cosby. Regardless of whether we are “for” or “against” him, I’ve assumed that there was one thing we could all agree on: if he is guilty, he should pay for what he did. I was wrong in that assumption. Not everyone feels he should be punished, even if the allegations are true.

 

[BritsKate]

While it is indeed shocking that so many women have come forward, to think that some might twist allegations “this serious”, or were extortionists to begin with, is just a piece that an unscrupulous media circus couldn’t care less about. An allegation that has yet to be proved or supported by evidence is just that.

If there is any “truth” to the bandwagon effect - it brands women as liars, manipulators, and potentially paints the whole lot with the same brush stroke by the very same “shaming is all we can do public”. The $100 million dollar civil threat price tag, without substance to back it up, just reinforces perception of extortion.

It is not that it is SO much easier to believe it is about the money but that it is more difficult to know what the truth is in a fair and balanced way, as (bbm) listed above.

If all this gets another conversation going about really helping women name, identify, define sexual assault, and know where to turn, what to do, then that is a silver lining.

My takeaway - work to change the statute of limitation laws on rape.

RBBM

That just isn't enough. The reason so many rapes go unreported, unprosecuted, or fail in conviction is systemic. Over here, rape convictions are at a 4 year low, despite a massive campaign started in 2010. I think it starts with attitudes and we have to work outward from our perceptions.

One of the key issues in this area is that there are pervasive, unhelpful attitudes towards rape and sexual assault that prevent justice at each step of the way – victims don’t report, police don’t pass cases on to the CPS, cases are dropped. In 2010, sexual assault referral service The Havens carried out a survey about attitudes to rape in London, and the findings were shocking. Many people did not understand consent, believing that victims are responsible for their rape in some situations. And when it comes to these situations, women were more likely than men to believe that victims are responsible for the attack. The new plan comes four months after an investigation into rape statistics found that even though there were more rapes reported last year, the number of cases that were referred to the CPS had dropped by a third.

 

[BirdycatNY]

*Article from today:
Bill Cosby tour: London mayor shares 'concerns' with show opponents
CBC News
Posted: Dec 31, 2014 2:33 PM ET Last Updated: Dec 31, 2014 4:27 PM ET
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...shares-concerns-with-show-opponents-1.2887341


*The article below was previously posted in thread but it has detailed discussion and some facts about Constand case/settlement.

"Just three days after she went to the police, the calls began. Either Cosby or one of his representatives would phone up Constand or her mother, always offering either an apology or money, she would later tell the court. There were at least four calls, according to Constand, and among the Cosby reps was lawyer...Constand said she didn't accept anything. Cosby himself confirmed this, telling Cheltenham police that neither woman asked him for money, "but had only asked him to apologize to Plaintiff and her mother, which he did," according to one filing...."

The Former Basketball Player Who Brought Down Bill Cosby
Deadspin
by: Diana Moskovitz
11/26/14 1:58pm
http://deadspin.com/the-former-basketball-player-who-brought-down-bill-cosb-1661203971

 

[IzzyBlanche]

women were more likely than men to believe that victims are responsible for the attack.

Which has been shown quite clearly on this forum.

 

[Crimson clover]

An interesting read... perhaps only if you're discreetly labeled a "Cosby hugger". Idk.
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/artic...ge-bill-cosby-shows-the-power-of-intimidation
The New Enemy of Society
The rush to judge anyone associated with Bill Cosby shows just how powerful a tool intimidation can be.

People are not always what they seem to be or what we think they are.

It’s a point that bears repeating in light of the allegations being made against comedian Bill Cosby by a near score of women who have come forward with claims that he abused them years or even decades ago

Now that he stands accused of heinous acts against women, it has severely tarnished his star. I don’t know if he’s guilty as alleged; I don’t know that he’s guilty at all. What I do know is he is a very big target with an even bigger bankroll and that things may not be as they seem. There are two sides to every story, and he has yet to tell his. Is it possible that some people have come forward to tell a story because they see a big payday at the end of it all? Sure – just as it is possible that he did everything he is now accused of. What is important is that people keep, as Cosby himself has urged, an open mind.

Intimidation is a powerful tool, one that political activists have taken to heart in this, the age of the community-organizer president. It’s not so much mob rule as it is the threat of mob rule that is becoming the new enemy of organized society.

 

[Redbird]

The idea that 30 women of all different ages from all over the US would pick a "beloved" comedian to try to get money from, when the statue of limitations has passed, is absurd to me. Why would they pick BC instead of a more viable target? Doesn't make sense at all.

 

[Leilei]

The idea that 30 women of all different ages from all over the US would pick a "beloved" comedian to try to get money from, when the statue of limitations has passed, is absurd to me. Why would they pick BC instead of a more viable target? Doesn't make sense at all.

You aren't alone in your thinking. Why would women come forward with this when they have nothing to gain, legally or monetarily? In my opinion, because it is true, and they are finally able to breathe and tell their stories. I doubt that anything happens to BC, aside from the negative press, and he's certainly not saying anything. But, these women are now targets of his legal team. Digging up anything from their pasts, which will be spread all over the media. They are the victims, and they want and need to be heard.

In my opinion, of course.

 

[BritsKate]

If anyone's curious as to statistics...there was a 17 month investigation conducted in England and Wales into false rape accusations. The bottom dollar? Out of nearly 6,000 rapes prosecuted by the Crown there were only 35 prosecutions, in the same period, against a 'victim' making false claims. 0.6%.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/research/perverting_course_of_justice_march_2013.pdf

Also over here, Ched Evans, a footballer (think soccer ) who was convicted of rape and served just half of a 5 year sentence, was recently looking to resume his career. A petition signed by over 60,000 people saw Sheffield United retract their initial offer of training. Meanwhile, his victim has been forced to move 5 times and change her name thanks to twitter trolls outing her and the subsequent threats of violence and harm. A female ITV presenter on the show 'Loose Women' (the UK's version of 'The View') and two male BBC radio correspondents have been criticized heavily for their coverage of the rape - to include implying the victim, just 19 years old (legal drinking age is 18 here), wasn't really raped because she was drunk. Of course, the fact she was drunk and clearly could not give consent, which is what made it rape in the first place, seems to elude them.

Sigh. A very, very long way to go.

 

[Slebby]

The idea that 30 women of all different ages from all over the US would pick a "beloved" comedian to try to get money from, when the statue of limitations has passed, is absurd to me. Why would they pick BC instead of a more viable target? Doesn't make sense at all.

I totally agree.
Not only that, but, if all these women, of different ages, from all over the US, would pick a beloved comedian to get money from, why BC and not someone else? And why isn't this happening to someone else too? Why aren't opportunistic women all over making allegations against all sorts of celebrities? Pick a celebrity, any celebrity, and make a (false) claim against him. Apparently for the money, if the critics of the victims are to be believed. Why BC, and not, say, Jerry Seinfeld, or some other comedian? I have asked for *someone*, anyone to post a theory of how such a *conspiracy* comes together and so far I've heard zip, zilch, nothing. There are folks who adamantly denounce the victims as liars yet can shed no light on how it can be that 25+ women have come forward with similar experiences with the same man. Somehow all faith is placed in a man they know no better than the alleged victims.
It is utterly baffling to me.

IMO

 

[BirdycatNY]

A Foolish, Foolish Man
Why Bill Cosby Should Be Ashamed
Psychology Today
by Stephen Greenspan, Ph.D. in Incompetence
Published on December 31, 2014
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/incompetence/201412/foolish-foolish-man


About Bill Cosby: Why Did the Women Wait So Long?
Psychology Today
by Judy Carter in Stress Is a Laughing Matter
Published on December 9, 2014
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...out-bill-cosby-why-did-the-women-wait-so-long


To Believe or Not Believe Bill Cosby's Accusers
Psychology Today
by Janice Harper, Ph.D. in Beyond Bullying
Published on November 24, 2014
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...1/believe-or-not-believe-bill-cosbys-accusers

 

[Donjeta]

Now that he stands accused of heinous acts against women, it has severely tarnished his star. I don’t know if he’s guilty as alleged; I don’t know that he’s guilty at all. What I do know is he is a very big target with an even bigger bankroll and that things may not be as they seem. There are two sides to every story, and he has yet to tell his. Is it possible that some people have come forward to tell a story because they see a big payday at the end of it all? Sure – just as it is possible that he did everything he is now accused of. What is important is that people keep, as Cosby himself has urged, an open mind.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/artic...ge-bill-cosby-shows-the-power-of-intimidation
I'm not sure where they're seeing the big payday...? Andrea Constand got some sort of settlement so that's a previous case but she actually sued Bill Cosby to make him settle and he wanted the Jane Does kept out of court to make the story go away. Now the Jane Doe stories are for the most part all out there and most of them are not suing so where is all the money in the big pay day that they're expecting coming from ? He's not going to pay anyone anything to silence a story that's already all over all the channels. Maybe some networks would pay for interviews, but how much is that going to be worth if you're just one of two dozen with a similar story?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/artic...ge-bill-cosby-shows-the-power-of-intimidation
I'm not sure where they're seeing the big payday...? Andrea Constand got some sort of settlement so that's a previous case but she actually sued Bill Cosby to make him settle and he wanted the Jane Does kept out of court to make the story go away. Now the Jane Doe stories are for the most part all out there and most of them are not suing so where is all the money in the big pay day that they're expecting coming from ? He's not going to pay anyone anything to silence a story that's already all over all the channels. Maybe some networks would pay for interviews, but how much is that going to be worth if you're just one of two dozen with a similar story?

Thanks, Donjeta. When I read that about a big payday, it's clear to me that the writer hasn't bothered to research the facts, since there is no evidence whatsoever that any of these women are looking for a big payday. Not monetarily at least. In my opinion, their "big payday" would be to finally expose Bill Cosby for the criminal that he is.

 

[Redbird]

BC was one of my favorite comedians. I loved, loved, loved him. Upthread someone pointed out a video with a skit about Camille, to point out we would probably view it differently now that we know the dark side of his personality. It was a skit I have heard many times. I guess I am very capable of separating art from the artist because I still laughed when I heard it. It reminded me of how much I had loved him and it is baffling how someone can have these extreme contradictions. Amazing. Can anyone even understand it?

 

[nrdsb4]

I totally agree.
Not only that, but, if all these women, of different ages, from all over the US, would pick a beloved comedian to get money from, why BC and not someone else? And why isn't this happening to someone else too? Why aren't opportunistic women all over making allegations against all sorts of celebrities? Pick a celebrity, any celebrity, and make a (false) claim against him. Apparently for the money, if the critics of the victims are to be believed. Why BC, and not, say, Jerry Seinfeld, or some other comedian? I have asked for *someone*, anyone to post a theory of how such a *conspiracy* comes together and so far I've heard zip, zilch, nothing. There are folks who adamantly denounce the victims as liars yet can shed no light on how it can be that 25+ women have come forward with similar experiences with the same man. Somehow all faith is placed in a man they know no better than the alleged victims.
It is utterly baffling to me.

IMO

But they DO know him. He's Cliff Huxtable! He couldn't seem that fatherly unless he actually IS a good guy, right? And he has such a cute twinkle in his eye! And his son was murdered, that's really sad. And he was so funny when he was doing all those voices in Fat Albert.

Hey, hey, hey!

 

[BirdycatNY]

Richmond man who wrote Cosby Show theme discusses allegations against Bill Cosby
by Sandra Jones, Updated at 07:33am, November 21, 2014
http://wtvr.com/2014/11/21/sexual-allegations-against-bill-cosby-hit-sour-note-with-richmond-friend/

Gardner said he has not heard from Cosby since the allegations resurfaced.

“Usually, Cosby will call me,” Gardener said. “If he gets to a point where it becomes bothersome to him, he’ll call me up and he’ll start telling me jokes.”

I'm not sure if this article was posted already, but I have a difficult time believing that BC didn't immediately contact Stu Gardner @first JD tv interview, given the fact Janice Dickinson named Mr. Gardner specifically at the dinner/night with BC when she was allegedly drugged/sexually assaulted (during JD tv interviews). Jmo

 

[BirdycatNY]

I totally agree.
Not only that, but, if all these women, of different ages, from all over the US, would pick a beloved comedian to get money from, why BC and not someone else? And why isn't this happening to someone else too? Why aren't opportunistic women all over making allegations against all sorts of celebrities? Pick a celebrity, any celebrity, and make a (false) claim against him. Apparently for the money, if the critics of the victims are to be believed. Why BC, and not, say, Jerry Seinfeld, or some other comedian? I have asked for *someone*, anyone to post a theory of how such a *conspiracy* comes together and so far I've heard zip, zilch, nothing. There are folks who adamantly denounce the victims as liars yet can shed no light on how it can be that 25+ women have come forward with similar experiences with the same man. Somehow all faith is placed in a man they know no better than the alleged victims.
It is utterly baffling to me.

IMO

Just to add in the case of Constand it was only AFTER she went to the police that COSBY and his people contacted her and offered her money and/or apology, which she said no. She only filed a civil suit after DA would not press criminal charges. from link: http://deadspin.com/the-former-basketball-player-who-brought-down-bill-cosb-1661203971

BC's recent comments on Beverly Johnson were interesting to me. From link http://pagesix.com/2014/12/28/cosbys-private-investigators-dig-up-dirt-to-discredit-rape-accusers/

BC re: Beverly Johnson “...You can’t say that I put something in your coffee, threw you in a cab and then you go on and live a high-profile life, a famous life and you never complain,” Cosby said, referring to supermodel Beverly Johnson...."

I wish someone would dissect his recent comments re: Beverly Johnson because his choice of words was interesting to me. IDK, jmo

 

[Donjeta]

I just want to ask him, why can't she say so? Clearly she's saying it...
I've no idea why living a high profile famous life should be somehow incompatible with having been drugged and thrown into a cab. Or is it incompatible with not complaining? Lots of cases like this are never reported. If you're a famous high profile person it might be even more difficult to report than if you're a nobody who's not going to have to read malicious speculation from gossip rags. Perhaps you can't say so simply because because Cosby's lawyers will attack you if you do?

Some say statement analysis techniques aren't too reliable and maybe they aren't as well validated as I'd like but one of the things SA people pay attention to are denials that include a positive statement. (eg. I deny that I murdered her" vs. "I did not murder her". As far as denials go, this is pretty weak:
"You can’t say that I put something in your coffee, threw you in a cab and then you go on and live a high-profile life, a famous life and you never complain"

This is rhetoric that is intended to convince people that it's entirely illogical for Beverly Johnson to say these things but nowhere does it actually state that it's not true.

(But the caveat is that he's not on video saying these things, it's an anonymous somebody reporting that he did.)