Rav4

[missy1974]

I don't think the red car was drivable, don't even think it had tires. This picture shows just how close it was to the car beside it.

 

[TheDuchess]

Rav4 there first and then other car parked up next to it?

Well that wouldn't really make much sense, because the other car was in a line of cars that was all there together and the RAV4 stuck out from the others, as if it was "double-parked."

 

[Madeleine74]

That's the photo I was thinking of when I made my "sardines" comment last night.

 

[Madeleine74]

The red vehicle is the one closest to the outside in that double-parked positioning.

 

[Sustained]

If SA is guilty, why would he and BD spend so much time cleaning the garage and not scrub down the RAV4 ? Makes no sense ...

 

[Madeleine74]

They didn't need to remove traces of TH from her own vehicle. SA didn't realize he had deposited his own blood in the SUV from the cut on his hand.

SA needed to get rid of TH stains from his garage. Why was it necessary for him to use bleach + gasoline + paint thinner in that area?

 

[missy1974]

You don't think at some point he realized he was bleeding and maybe should go clean that up? or at least go check? in your theory, he had the key.... he had how many days to go back and clean it?

And you still think TH bled in the garage and he was able to clean every trace of her? spatter.... and all?

And bleach, gasoline, and paint thinner..... is that from BD's confession?

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/detecting-evidence-after-bleaching.html

Chlorine bleaches can remove a Bloodstain to the naked eye but fortunately, forensics experts can use the application of substances such as luminol or phenolphthalein to show that haemoglobin is present. In fact, even if the shady criminal washed a bloodstained item of clothing 10 times, these chemicals could still reveal blood.

 

[Sustained]

They didn't need to remove traces of TH from her own vehicle. SA didn't realize he had deposited his own blood in the SUV from the cut on his hand.

SA needed to get rid of TH stains from his garage. Why was it necessary for him to use bleach + gasoline + paint thinner in that area?

Thanks for your opinion on SA and how the blood got in the RAV4.

Was the combination of bleach/gas/paint thinner introduced as evidence in court or is that from BD's interrogation ?

 

[Madeleine74]

SA cleaned up a specific area in his garage. But he didn't get it all. Bullet confirmed to be fired from rifle SA had possession of eventually found and had TH DNA on it. Believe or not, but it's a piece of circumstantial evidence the jury could consider.

Did police spray luminol over every surface of the entire garage? I don't remember hearing they did. Could police have missed some forensic evidence? It's possible.

 

[Madeleine74]

You don't think at some point he realized he was bleeding and maybe should go clean that up?

I'm sure he realized at some point his finger was bleeding, but did he notice his finger was bleeding while he was in TH's vehicle? I would say he did not realize it. Why he didn't realize it, is not something we can know.

I cut my leg once shaving and I didn't realize it for at least a minute, after I was already out of the tub. Some blood had smeared on the floor and I saw blood on the bottom of my leg where the cut occurred. Why didn't I notice it before I did? No idea. I hadn't felt it I didn't notice it until I did. It happens.

 

[TheDuchess]

The red vehicle is the one closest to the outside in that double-parked positioning.

No that is not correct. If you look at this photo you will clearly see that not only was the RAV4 positioned on the outside of the row, it was also facing the opposite direction it would have been. The red car was actually just a bit inside of the rest of the row of cars, leaving just enough space to park the RAV4 right up against it and still leave enough space to drive through. So we have a vehicle that is obviously driving in the opposite direction typically being used to park cars in that location, parked directly next to the red car with no way to exit the vehicle from the driver's side without climbing over to the passenger side.



To me, that could mean several things. The person who parked it wasn't that familiar with the property. Was an idiot who doesn't know how to park. The person who parked it was in an extreme hurry and hadn't thought through exactly how to park. The car wasn't driven to that location and instead was towed.

 

[Sustained]

No that is not correct. If you look at this photo you will clearly see that not only was the RAV4 positioned on the outside of the row, it was also facing the opposite direction it would have been. The red car was actually just a bit inside of the rest of the row of cars, leaving just enough space to park the RAV4 right up against it and still leave enough space to drive through. So we have a vehicle that is obviously driving in the opposite direction typically being used to park cars in that location, parked directly next to the red car with no way to exit the vehicle from the driver's side without climbing over to the passenger side.

View attachment 89205

To me, that could mean several things. The person who parked it wasn't that familiar with the property. Was an idiot who doesn't know how to park. The person who parked it was in an extreme hurry and hadn't thought through exactly how to park. The car wasn't driven to that location and instead was towed.

This is a very good point ... why would SA park so close to the red car not leaving himself any room to exit the vehicle without having to climb over the passenger seat ? He is not a slim guy and climbing over the passenger seat would most likely result in more prints and DNA being left behind.

 

[pittie_mcclure]

This is a very good point ... why would SA park so close to the red car not leaving himself any room to exit the vehicle without having to climb over the passenger seat ? He is not a slim guy and climbing over the passenger seat would most likely result in more prints and DNA being left behind.

I've always felt the parking was off too but one could argue that that's exactly how it did happen and that is why there was blood on the passenger seat. I'd assume it would get smeared or on the door handles/seat as one of Avery's build would have to use leverage to move across (maybe with this movement he tore a glove) but maybe once he was out, Avery leaned over from the passenger seat to remove the keys hence the blood droplets. I, of course, lean more towards wrongful conviction but the scenario presented doesn't necessarily go against the evidence. I'm just working all of this out!

 

[Sustained]

I've always felt the parking was off too but one could argue that that's exactly how it did happen and that is why there was blood on the passenger seat. I'd assume it would get smeared or on the door handles/seat as one of Avery's build would have to use leverage to move across (maybe with this movement he tore a glove) but maybe once he was out, Avery leaned over from the passenger seat to remove the keys hence the blood droplets. I, of course, lean more towards wrongful conviction but the scenario presented doesn't necessarily go against the evidence. I'm just working all of this out!

SA might have also moved the car in the dead of night and I doubt there's a lot of lighting toward that part of the yard.

 

[missy1974]

but if he's unknowingly bleeding from this finger... through his glove.... why no blood on the inside or outside of the door? none on the top of the consol? I can see no blood on the door if he got out the drivers side door... he would use his left hand to open the door.. but if going over to the passenger side.... wouldn't you use the right hand to open door? or if you use the left hand.... where do you put the right hand? on the top of the seat to brace yourself? on the door?

I'm trying to picture going over the console... which I have done when switching spots with my hubby while driving/not driving to avoid getting out of the vehicle, it's not that easy... and I'm short LOL our vehicle might be a bit bigger, but very similar, bucket seats, middle console.

 

[missy1974]

SA might have also moved the car in the dead of night and I doubt there's a lot of lighting toward that part of the yard.

would be interesting to know if the vehicle that was parked in front of that red car had damage.... or if it looked like it was hit, wouldn't it? Still wouldn't explain the missing wheel well.... and if someone did hit that car, why bother to pick up the light.... nevermind LOL

 

[pittie_mcclure]

but if he's unknowingly bleeding from this finger... through his glove.... why no blood on the inside or outside of the door? none on the top of the consol? I can see no blood on the door if he got out the drivers side door... he would use his left hand to open the door.. but if going over to the passenger side.... wouldn't you use the right hand to open door? or if you use the left hand.... where do you put the right hand? on the top of the seat to brace yourself? on the door?

I'm trying to picture going over the console... which I have done when switching spots with my hubby while driving/not driving to avoid getting out of the vehicle, it's not that easy... and I'm short LOL our vehicle might be a bit bigger, but very similar, bucket seats, middle console.

I agree Missy that it is very difficult. I'm 5'8" and have lady bumps (lol) so when I don't want to go out and am climbing from the drivers side to passenger or to the backseat (I don't even know why I do this as it seems like way more work haha) i always end up knocking something over or hitting the rear view mirror or something. i always manage to mess up my ponytail too. Maybe it's time I start just opening the door!!! Anyway, I tend to agree with Sustained, so IMO whoever parked the car there did it at night. Let's just say it was & he was wearing gloves. Climbing over would rip a glove. Darkness would prevent you from seeing blood. But yes, crawling over would require him to use both hands to move and open the door so I still think there would be smeared blood or at least more blood. If he was keeping his hand tucked in because he knew it was cut then leaving the blood evidence doesn't make sense. I know we don't know because we weren't there so I hope that isn't said yet again, but he had to notice at some point his gloves were ripped. When he took off his gloves before realizing one was ripped he would have at least noticed his hand covered in blood (if he was actively bleeding enough to leave smears and droplets I do not doubt there was enough blood under the glove to be noticeable). I can't imagine anybody saying "oh well. I went through all this work to cover my tracks but I'm not gonna go back to double check I didn't bleed in the car." So I don't know. Which is no surprise here!

 

[missy1974]

yep pittie_mcclure... getting over the seat is sometimes like a game of twister, isn't it? LOL I just can't imagine that there wouldn't be more blood smeared around if he was bleeding and going over the console to get out the passenger side. And at some point he would have noticed the blood/cut... so why not use the key and go at least check it and make sure?

I just have so many issues with this case. So much just doesn't make sense.

 

[Madeleine74]

but if he's unknowingly bleeding from this finger... through his glove....

What glove?

 

[Sustained]

What glove?

Why are there no fingerprints on the RAV4 from SA ? Don't think the RAV4 was dusted all over ?