CASO records

[Limaes]

This is what frustrates me the most about reading here or elsewhere... If she gets SA freed and proves he didn't kill TH (and likely points to or proves another person did it), there are going to be so many people who still believe he's a monster and he deserves to be in jail. That's not fair to SA at all!! We all encounter "creepy" people and know men who are abusive to the woman in their lives but most of them don't deserve the treatment SA has been given nearly his entire adult life!!!

I too get frustrated at times reading here and elsewhere because there are people who are so dismissive of not only SA's violent history but the abundance of physical evidence.

If Zellner fails to get him released, or a new trial, there will be those who will hold on to theory that he was framed based solely on gossip and innuendo, rather than cold hard evidence.

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[Hippiemomof5]

I too get frustrated at times reading here and elsewhere because there are people who are so dismissive of not only SA's violent history but the abundance of physical evidence.

If Zellner fails to get him released, or a new trial, there will be those who will hold on to theory that he was framed based solely on gossip and innuendo, rather than cold hard evidence.

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And that's understandable! It's the same but the opposite view! I'm sure there are people who won't accept his guilt (after zellner is done with him) but I don't feel that way. I'm happy new eyes are looking at everything. To say someone should still rot in jail even if found innocent is a totally different ball game to me.

 

[dexter75]

Agree completely

BBM

I don't have a lot of time to post.... but just want to say I'm sorry for what you had to go through Hippiemom. I was lucky my parents and family are great (of course we always have some sort of drama lol but nothing abusive)

:hug:

And I also agree, if he is innocent of murder, he shouldn't be in jail for murder. Just because he's a terrible person, IF he is innocent of this murder, then he shouldn't be there FOR the murder. Period. No matter how terrible of a person he is or might be.

 

[dexter75]

I am sorry for what you endured growing up. I can relate on many levels. My brother got the worse of the abuse, I moved out at 15 and have never been back home. I absolutely agree with you when you state " it's not how my heart works "

And you're RIGHT. Our SYSTEM is NOT suppose to work this way either. If SA is indeed guilty, I have NO problem ADMITTING I WAS WRONG. I am HUMAN and make ERRORS all of the time. In fact, I can see WHY folks think he IS guilty. But to be oh so CERTAIN and DISCOUNT so many details that just seem " off " and then to REFUSE to believe in his INNOCENCE should he be EXONERATED, seems extremely narrow minded, IMO.

 

[missy1974]

I don't have a lot of time to post.... but just want to say I'm sorry for what you had to go through Hippiemom. I was lucky and my parents and family are great (of course we always have some sort of drama lol but nothing abusive)

:hug:

And I also agree, if he is innocent of murder, he shouldn't be in jail for murder. Just because he's a terrible person, IF he is innocent of this murder, then he shouldn't be there FOR the murder. Period. No matter how terrible of a person he is or might be.

haha had to quote myself..... Uhmmm obviously I was in a rush when I posted that LOL I repeated myself... geesh and no one pointed it out? LOL

 

[dexter75]

Exactly...

BBM

He's in jail on a MURDER charge. If zellner finds him innocent, then NO, he should not be in jail. He's not there for abusing Jodi, or the possible sexual relations with his niece, he's there for MURDER. That also means if he's innocent, someone else who IS A MURDERER is walking free!

 

[ZOOL]

<sbm>[...] To say someone should still rot in jail even if found innocent is a totally different ball game to me.

This is getting ridiculous. No one said "an innocent person should rot in jail"...etcetera. Go back and read what I wrote. There is nothing in there which suggests anything about Avery being innocent.

Avery was found guilty, was sentenced to life in prison, and is currently serving his sentence. He is NOT simply being CHARGED with murder. He has been found guilty and is appealing that decision.

There was sufficient evidence to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I have not seen, nor read yet anything reasonable to alter that opinion. Until there is extraordinary and compelling evidence presented which justifies a reasonable doubt, Avery will remain as a convicted murderer.

If Zellner can produce the necessary evidence, then a terrible wrong will need to be righted. I do not see that happening. However if that does happen, I would still feel that Avery's past behavior with women would be a ticking time-bomb.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

I read what you wrote and my opinion still stands.

If she manages to vacate Avery's conviction and walks out of the prison hand-holding that murderer, she will be responsible for unleashing a monstrous ghoul on more women.

If Averys conviction is vacated, he should not be viewed as a murderer. The fact that you stated such is what started this.

 

[ZOOL]

<sbm>[...]If Averys conviction is vacated, he should not be viewed as a murderer. The fact that you stated such is what started this.

O.J. Simpson walked away a free man but I was convinced by the prosecution's entire case that he was a murderer and that's what he is. Simpson was represented by crafty lawyers with questionable ethics. IMO Zellner is in the same category.

So I understand your position. I hope you understand mine.

 

[Limaes]

I think most people, even Avery supporters feel that he should not get out on a technicality, which is sometimes Zellner's M.O.

It still bothers me that she did not retract SA's self filed appeal with her own. The more this goes on, the more suspicious I am of Zellner's true motive for getting involved in this case.

Also, many eyes have looked at this case including his appeals. If evidence of planting is NOT there, then it is NOT there, period.

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[missy1974]

I think most people, even Avery supporters feel that he should not get out on a technicality, which is sometimes Zellner's M.O.

It still bothers me that she did not retract SA's self filed appeal with her own. The more this goes on, the more suspicious I am of Zellner's true motive for getting involved in this case.

Also, many eyes have looked at this case including his appeals. If evidence of planting is NOT there, then it is NOT there, period.

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You expected her to withdraw this:
http://www.wisinfo.com/appleton/pdf/index.php?x=5

and then file something immediately? I don't think that would be responsible or ethical for ANY attorney to do that, including Kathleen Zellner. Especially 3-4 weeks after taking on the case. Also, a significant delay recently was from the Courts Clerk, not Zellner. The complete file needed to be sent to the Court of Appeals, it needed to be corrected (more than once?), and then it was finally sent. Now the clock ticks for Zellner.

As for appeals.... pfft his appeals were exhausted in the PB rape case too, how did that turn out? How many INNOCENT people exhausted their appeals before they were exonerated? I don't know the answer to this, but it seems that every "story" I have read or heard, most have already exhausted all appeals. This means nothing. IMO

And I do think you are right, most supporters don't want SA or anyone to get out on a technicality.

 

[Limaes]

You expected her to withdraw this:
http://www.wisinfo.com/appleton/pdf/index.php?x=5

and then file something immediately? I don't think that would be responsible or ethical for ANY attorney to do that, including Kathleen Zellner. Especially 3-4 weeks after taking on the case. Also, a significant delay recently was from the Courts Clerk, not Zellner. The complete file needed to be sent to the Court of Appeals, it needed to be corrected (more than once?), and then it was finally sent. Now the clock ticks for Zellner.

As for appeals.... pfft his appeals were exhausted in the PB rape case too, how did that turn out? How many INNOCENT people exhausted their appeals before they were exonerated? I don't know the answer to this, but it seems that every "story" I have read or heard, most have already exhausted all appeals. This means nothing. IMO

And I do think you are right, most supporters don't want SA or anyone to get out on a technicality.

Who said anything about immediately? Although she did immediately class him as innocent and soon after took to Twitter.

I am very interested to see where all this goes. It is no secret that I am not a Zellner fan.

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[BigCityAccountant]

I really haven't read much about BD because it breaks my heart and I have a son with Autism, but the interviews are in the CASO reports, so I'm reading bits and pieces. A few thoughts. BD was in all gen ed classes except 1, biology. That means to me that school administrators though he had the mental capacity to participate alongside the other students in regular gen ed classes. They mention an aid, but only to the extent of outside of class help, not in class. For me, that doesn't say the disability is pronounced and he wouldn't know what he was saying or doing. With that said, he goes back and forth with his answers, which is what my son does. By the way, my son is also in some gen ed classes, but not as many as BD and he is not as old as BD. My son tries to answer the question with what he thinks we want to hear. I do have to go back and forth with him to elicit the correct answer just as the investigators do. But as I'm reading--for some reason I get the impression that it is possible that BD was taking meds. My son doesn't take meds, but it just screams to me Hey, I'm on meds. I don't know why--but it does. If that is the case, I wonder how much the meds were affecting his answers. I know because of privacy issues, this may not be available but do we know if BD was on any meds. Was that mentioned anywhere?

 

[missy1974]

I'm with you on Brendan, BCA.... I think I have read all the transcripts, and watched clips here and there, and I just have a hard time with it, I have 2 teenage sons and it literally makes me sick to my stomach to watch the videos. I have never read that BD was on any medication and I'm sure if he was, we would know by now.

It would be nice to see laws changed so that any minor must have an advocate, parent, lawyer present when being questioned. I don't think I had ever thought about it much until this case, and I'm not sure how my own kids would handle being questioned like that, and they don't have low IQ's, they are teenage boys and just not bright at times. This case definitely gave me the opportunity to talk to them about what to do or not to do if ever questioned by the police, which was basically.... tell them your name and then tell them you want to call your Mommy and keep your mouth shut ;-)

 

[dexter75]

I have a nephew and a brother in law with autism.

I have always wondered about the medication, too. I'm sure we would never know unless we came right out and asked the family, HIPPA & all.

Wishing your daughter a speedy recovery:balloons::getwell:

I really haven't read much about BD because it breaks my heart and I have a son with Autism, but the interviews are in the CASO reports, so I'm reading bits and pieces. A few thoughts. BD was in all gen ed classes except 1, biology. That means to me that school administrators though he had the mental capacity to participate alongside the other students in regular gen ed classes. They mention an aid, but only to the extent of outside of class help, not in class. For me, that doesn't say the disability is pronounced and he wouldn't know what he was saying or doing. With that said, he goes back and forth with his answers, which is what my son does. By the way, my son is also in some gen ed classes, but not as many as BD and he is not as old as BD. My son tries to answer the question with what he thinks we want to hear. I do have to go back and forth with him to elicit the correct answer just as the investigators do. But as I'm reading--for some reason I get the impression that it is possible that BD was taking meds. My son doesn't take meds, but it just screams to me Hey, I'm on meds. I don't know why--but it does. If that is the case, I wonder how much the meds were affecting his answers. I know because of privacy issues, this may not be available but do we know if BD was on any meds. Was that mentioned anywhere?

 

[ZOOL]

I have a nephew and a brother in law with autism.

I have always wondered about the medication, too. I'm sure we would never know unless we came right out and asked the family, HIPPA & all.

Wishing your daughter a speedy recovery:balloons::getwell:

I think by May 13, 2006, (ie. Brendan's interview at the juvenile detention center), Fassbender and Wiegert ought to have realized in order to get to a better understanding of the truth they owed it to Brendan to have a court appointed psychologist interview him. It is unfathomable that no one in any of the proceedings ever produced a meaningful evaluation. It is highly doubtful to me that his mother, or his extended family, or even the school, considered his mental health, and whether that boy needed medical attention....

That being said, I believe that someone eventually realized that his participation as a witness in Avery's trial was completely useless. However by then the damage had been done by Kratz's unethical on-going commentary with the press.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Awe! Thank you Dexter! Was a long ride up to the cabin, we had to stop every hour, so she could get out and stretch. I had to call the Dr. to see if she could go. She was going to stay home with dad, but wanted to go so badly. The Dr. say she has patients who travel to come to them and she recommended we stop every hour. We made it, albeit a long trip.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Been trying to post to Zool but my internet is not the best up here at the cabin. Yes Zool, I agree 100%

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I'll have to go back on re-read--but did I read that Reimker (sp) was the evidence custodian for MSO? He was also out at the Avery property per the crime scene logs. If that is the case, I wonder why he wasn't fingerprinted like Link and Colburn. I think there is a Reimer for CASO and Reimker for MSO correct? I don't think Lenk and Colburn planted the evidence.

 

[Eileen730]

WIEGERT and DEDERING that we should spEak with STEVEN AVERy to ascertain if he would allow us to search the salvage yard and we could utllize the friends and families to expedite the search'
we were about to leave the sheriff s deparlment to travel to AVERY',S AUTO SALVAGE when Dispatcher MARIE OOSTERHOUSE summoned me into the dispatch center. Marie was on the phone with a female, later identified as PAMELA STURM. MARIE handed me the phone. I spoke with pAMELA and she indicated she is a friend of TERESA HALBACH- PAMELA stated she and her daughter, NIKOLE STURM, were at AVERY'S AUTO SALVAGE and had found a RAV4 vehicle in the salvage yard, which PAMELA stated was covered with branches


Soooo this woman decides to go to this salvage yard with thousands of cars and finds this car right off the bat?

Andddd they tell her to look for the vin number! give me a break.



Earl gave them permission.
Hmmmm

This is all very interesting!