RDI, which sentences in RN is PR, which JR

[Tadpole12]

Moreover, the idea (expressed by Steve Ainsworth--another incident the world will know about if I have my way) that the intruder staged it to look like the parents staged it to look like an intruder

Hi SD.

I've never heard of that case?

...sounds a little like "The Battle of Wills" in The Princess Bride. Which is simpler: the idea that the Rs staged an intruder, or the idea that an intruder staged--yadda yadda?

hmmm ... like the movie Sleuth ......

Granted. I'm going with my gut on this one.



Well, on the first account, it's not particularly my theory. I don't really think about it that much. But, since this is (to my way of thinking) an all-or-nothing thread, might as well go ahead.
So, on the second account, I don't think they read it afterwards, aloud or otherwise. That would have made it "real" to them in my opinion. On the third account, I think he did walk away. I figure her sanity at that moment was hanging by a thread and he didn't want to make it worse.

On the fourth account, why did they do it together? That's easy: it's one's word against the other. If the law can't figure who did what, they can't do anything. That's known as the "cross-fingerpointing defense." Committing murder's not like taking a bus ride together, where each one can get off at a different stop.



Precisely! I'm glad we got that settled.

hmmm, "That's known as the "cross-fingerpointing defense."

"real" ? also within the RDI scenarios they would have been awake all night, post Christmas festivities, and given their age (Not many allnighters at their age?) they would have been delerious with exhaustion and barely running on adrenaline.

 

[BBB167893]

Hi SD.

I've never heard of that case?

He was referring to THIS case, Tadpole!

hmmm ... like the movie Sleuth ......

Okay!

hmmm, "That's known as the "cross-fingerpointing defense."

Right. You can't go into court and say "one of them did it, you decide." You have to charge one with specifics.

"real" ?

As in "this is really happening to me."

also within the RDI scenarios they would have been awake all night, post Christmas festivities, and given their age (Not many allnighters at their age?) they would have been delerious with exhaustion and barely running on adrenaline.

Right.

 

[voynich]

I meant the motive to stage it. The Rs would have much better cause to stage a scene than an intruder.



Here's how: for IDI you have to be able to put someone in the house vs. RDI, where they were already there. That's one way I can think of.

Moreover, the idea (expressed by Steve Ainsworth--another incident the world will know about if I have my way) that the intruder staged it to look like the parents staged it to look like an intruder...sounds a little like "The Battle of Wills" in The Princess Bride. Which is simpler: the idea that the Rs staged an intruder, or the idea that an intruder staged--yadda yadda?

if an IDI were to stage the crime scene, what would you expect to find, and how does the expectation differ from the investigative finding?

Granted. I'm going with my gut on this one.



Well, on the first account, it's not particularly my theory. I don't really think about it that much. But, since this is (to my way of thinking) an all-or-nothing thread, might as well go ahead.
So, on the second account, I don't think they read it afterwards, aloud or otherwise. That would have made it "real" to them in my opinion. On the third account, I think he did walk away. I figure her sanity at that moment was hanging by a thread and he didn't want to make it worse.
.

There was a claim that which contribution from which could be determined from the appearance of the handwriting.

 

[BBB167893]

if an IDI were to stage the crime scene, what would you expect to find, and how does the expectation differ from the investigative finding?

"IF" is right. I think it was Gregg McCrary who said intruders don't stage crime scenes. But leaving that aside for a moment, it helps to remember that staging doesn't just refer to the act, but the intent behind it. What I'd expect to find is a very transparent attempt to put the focus on the Rs, rather than to point it right back at me. Putting the poison into my own goblet, as it were. As for how this differs from the investgative finding, that's an even longer answer. The finding was that someone with no real knowledge of how a criminal mind works, using only references from movies and books, tried to create not just a criminal, but a criminal who embodies popular bogeymen: Things The Media Tells Us to Fear. There's also that little problem about having to put on their clothes.

There was a claim that which contribution from which could be determined from the appearance of the handwriting.

I do not believe I said otherwise. (Spock moment!)

 

[voynich]

"IF" is right. I think it was Gregg McCrary who said intruders don't stage crime scenes. But leaving that aside for a moment, it helps to remember that staging doesn't just refer to the act, but the intent behind it. What I'd expect to find is a very transparent attempt to put the focus on the Rs, rather than to point it right back at me. Putting the poison into my own goblet, as it were. As for how this differs from the investgative finding, that's an even longer answer. The finding was that someone with no real knowledge of how a criminal mind works, using only references from movies and books, tried to create not just a criminal, but a criminal who embodies popular bogeymen: Things The Media Tells Us to Fear. There's also that little problem about having to put on their clothes.

I guess he needs to review the BTK killer, at least one house murder he committed was staged as a suicide, and the policed ruled it as such (until he confessed).

I'm kinda curious as to what you think of the Jeffrey MacDonald case and Samuel Shapperd. Personally, I think that they did it, but in Shapperd case there is one viable suspect.

There are less famous examples of pay to kill contract killers intruders entering homes and staging the scene to look like a burglary, and suicides, esp gunshot wounds, that eventually were ruled homicides. (Of course there are probably a lot of murders that were missed as suicides)

What you say about RDI's could also apply to an IDI, esp a young adolescent male. Yeah I can see such an IDI writing "Hi, LE, my name is PR and this is my confession. There was no intruder, I did it." -- the $118k bonus comes close

I do not believe I said otherwise. (Spock moment!)

hehe. I want to see this claim supported. Mr. Spock restrains his emotion, so would not make a sith.

 

[BBB167893]

I guess he needs to review the BTK killer, at least one house murder he committed was staged as a suicide, and the policed ruled it as such (until he confessed).

Sorry, apparently I was mistaken. He did not say that. Someone did, but not him. The words he used were "elaborate staging." It's that "elaborate" part I'm trying to focus on.

I'm kinda curious as to what you think of the Jeffrey MacDonald case and Samuel Shapperd. Personally, I think that they did it, but in Shapperd case there is one viable suspect.

MacDonald did it, no question in my mind. And furthermore, I strongly urge anyone interested in JBR to study up on it. A lot of the same themes are visible. Apparently, Michael Kane thinks the same, because he compared the two. As for Sheppard, don't think about it much one way or the other.

Out of curiosity, why do you ask?

There are less famous examples of pay to kill contract killers intruders entering homes and staging the scene to look like a burglary, and suicides, esp gunshot wounds, that eventually were ruled homicides. (Of course there are probably a lot of murders that were missed as suicides)

That's far and away different from what we're talking about here.

What you say about RDI's could also apply to an IDI, esp a young adolescent male.

Maybe, but at times like this that I find it helpful to remember the advice of my late father: "Son, always keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out."

Yeah I can see such an IDI writing "Hi, LE, my name is PR and this is my confession. There was no intruder, I did it." -- the $118k bonus comes close

I actually think it's as close to a confession as we're going to get.

hehe. I want to see this claim supported. Mr. Spock restrains his emotion, so would not make a sith.

I was merely agreeing that there IS such a claim. As for support, just exactly what are you looking for?

 

[voynich]

Sorry, apparently I was mistaken. He did not say that. Someone did, but not him. The words he used were "elaborate staging." It's that "elaborate" part I'm trying to focus on.

ic. Is DNA part of this elaborate staging?

MacDonald did it, no question in my mind. And furthermore, I strongly urge anyone interested in JBR to study up on it. A lot of the same themes are visible. Apparently, Michael Kane thinks the same, because he compared the two. As for Sheppard, don't think about it much one way or the other.

Out of curiosity, why do you ask?

I've got some familiarity with other famous cases. Of course if JM & SS did it as did OJ it shows even PR can "snap" and crack JB skull and garrote her. Of course there's staging (which makes LE think JM & SS are guilty) In the SS case it is alleged that there is DNA from an unidentified third party on Marilyn Reese.

That's far and away different from what we're talking about here.



Maybe, but at times like this that I find it helpful to remember the advice of my late father: "Son, always keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out."

Hehe. How about this one:
Do not underestimate the power of RDI or suffer your father's fate you will. Once you travel down the RDI, forever will it dominate your destiny.

I actually think it's as close to a confession as we're going to get.

Well I would be interested in what other forensic linguists think.

I was merely agreeing that there IS such a claim. As for support, just exactly what are you looking for?

" Originally Posted by TinaD View Post
I think the odd spacings can be explained quite easily if, as many people feel, John was dictating parts of the note to Patsy and she was stopping and starting rather than writing in a flow of her own thoughts."

Odd spacings and how this correlates to PR or JR.

 

[Tadpole12]

He was referring to THIS case, Tadpole!.

Hi SD. Misunderstood. Ty for the clarification.

Okay!
Right. You can't go into court and say "one of them did it, you decide." You have to charge one with specifics.
As in "this is really happening to me."
Right.

Ya I can imagine that kinda panic and selfpresevation.

 

[Tadpole12]

if an IDI were to stage the crime scene, what would you expect to find, and how does the expectation differ from the investigative finding?

Hi voynich.

hmmm.
Gee ... hmmmm, cause and effect ... I wouldn't know where to start.
how that could be plausible.
How do you think it would be done?
down to Bible quote and the crease in the dictionary marking the I page bearing the word 'incest'.

 

[voynich]

Hi voynich.

hmmm.
Gee ... hmmmm, cause and effect ... I wouldn't know where to start.
how that could be plausible.
How do you think it would be done?
down to Bible quote and the crease in the dictionary marking the I page bearing the word 'incest'.

I would look at other staged intruder homicides to see similarities. A common one is contract killing made to look like a suicide for insurance money.

 

[Ames]

I would look at other staged intruder homicides to see similarities. A common one is contract killing made to look like a suicide for insurance money.

That is a "little bit" different than an intruder staging a crime scene to look like the parents did it, but writing a ransom note saying that it was the work of a Small Foreign Faction.

 

[voynich]

That is a "little bit" different than an intruder staging a crime scene to look like the parents did it, but writing a ransom note saying that it was the work of a Small Foreign Faction.

True. While there are examples of intruders kidnapping and murdering children, (i.e Polly Klaas, Charles Limbaugh) Has there been any case of an intruder staging the crime scene to frame the parents?

 

[Tadpole12]

I would look at other staged intruder homicides to see similarities. A common one is contract killing made to look like a suicide for insurance money.

Hi voynich.

Yes I understand that scenario ..... it's the continually attached comparison,

but how would the crime have been accomplished, each act, within the given time frame.

post 11pm for the IDI arrives after Ramseys are asleep, or
the IDI arrives while Ramseys are at party, and? what then?

how does the IDI accomplish all those acts? There's many RDI time frames, but the IDI scenarios are represented by 'retorts'?.

What kinda time frame would have to be operated under?
Grey van arrives at ?
Would love to hear any detail about the IDI MO.

 

[voynich]

Hi voynich.

Yes I understand that scenario ..... it's the continually attached comparison,

but how would the crime have been accomplished, each act, within the given time frame.

post 11pm for the IDI arrives after Ramseys are asleep, or
the IDI arrives while Ramseys are at party, and? what then?

how does the IDI accomplish all those acts? There's many RDI time frames, but the IDI scenarios are represented by 'retorts'?.

What kinda time frame would have to be operated under?
Grey van arrives at ?
Would love to hear any detail about the IDI MO.

Hi Tadpole, frog yet?

Sounds like a new thread. IDI theory revisited. Any volunteers?

 

[Tadpole12]

Hi Tadpole, frog yet??

Hi voynich.

nah,.... not yet ..... me hind legs just developed.

Sounds like a new thread. IDI theory revisited. Any volunteers?

IDI theory revisited.

cool.

 

[Ames]

True. While there are examples of intruders kidnapping and murdering children, (i.e Polly Klaas, Charles Limbaugh) Has there been any case of an intruder staging the crime scene to frame the parents?

Not that I know of. I do know that the Ramsey RN was the longest one ever written, and not only that...but the intruder forgot to take the body with him. There has NEVER been a case like THAT before.

 

[voynich]

Not that I know of. I do know that the Ramsey RN was the longest one ever written, and not only that...but the intruder forgot to take the body with him. There has NEVER been a case like THAT before.

So I've heard.
John Karr is a pedophile and admitted to murdering JB, but was excluded based on DNA evidence -- evidence that RDI do not accept anyhow. He gave investigators an account of what happened that night, and how he arrived at $118 ($100 + $18 k for age of consent)

 

[voynich]

Hi voynich.

nah,.... not yet ..... me hind legs just developed.



IDI theory revisited.

cool.

haha how cute

 

[Ames]

So I've heard.
John Karr is a pedophile and admitted to murdering JB, but was excluded based on DNA evidence -- evidence that RDI do not accept anyhow. He gave investigators an account of what happened that night, and how he arrived at $118 ($100 + $18 k for age of consent)

Well, yeah..the DNA and the fact that his wife said that he was with her on Christmas 1996. 118,000.00 was the amount of JR's bonus that year. JMK is a weenie...there is no way that he could have pulled something like that off, all by his scrawny little self, anyway. Him with his guy-liner and man-. That man is just confused...he can't decide if he is a pedophile, or a woman...maybe he is both.

 

[DeeDee249]

JMK had the same info on this crime that we do. Maybe not even as much. The details he gave to police could have been given by most posters here. Nothing he said was not already on the internet. He was a 'wanna be". He wanted to be linked to JBR forever and now he will, thanks to Lacy.