Reasons why you think it could be suicide

[freespeech]

I find the evidence they had very compelling and proof that it was suicide. I think the Zahaus would have been challenging the suicide ruling even IF Rebecca had left a clear note saying why she did what she did. They are in major denial, IMO, and would have been no matter what.

I think that if it were a personal note to Jonah from Rebecca, that LE would have kept it quiet, and that the Zahaus or Bremner would never mention it.

JMO

of course you do know that according to Gore there was no suicide note. Do you think he lied about that? <modsnip>.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

of course you do know that according to Gore there was no suicide note. Do you think he lied about that? <modsnip>.

It may not have been a note that said, "Jonah, I'm hanging myself because of what happened to Max", but could have been a note saying other things to Jonah. And since LE does not release suicide notes, they have no obligation to tell the public what was in the note.

<modsnip>

 

[Tink56]

It may not have been a note that said, "Jonah, I'm hanging myself because of what happened to Max", but could have been a note saying other things to Jonah. And since LE does not release suicide notes, they have no obligation to tell the public what was in the note.

Dina in denial? That must be your theory, as I don't know where you got that. Dina knows that the story Rebecca gave was not correct. She knows there was more to Max's accident than Rebecca would say. Dina knows Rebecca hung herself to avoid questions. What is she in denial about?

How/from whom does Dina KNOW that Rebecca hanged herself to avoid questions? I have never read that from any reliable msm or le source.

 

[justice be served]

Regular people find the death of Rebecca to be bizarre particularly in light of Max's accident so close before. So much so that it is still being debated heavily over a year later. One needn't be involved to question the validity of the suicide ruling. Just ordinary people who are intelligent.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Most people believe that Rebecca committed suicide because she was upset about Max. But I think that there is much more evidence that she was avoiding questions about his accident. I think the reason that makes the most sense is that she was somehow involved, or staged, or cover-up, (or a combination of all three) in Max's "accident". She did not seem to be that upset after Max went to the hospital. I think she was worried about CPS being called. I think she knew they were on to her.

 

[Tink56]

Most people believe that Rebecca committed suicide because she was upset about Max. But I think that there is much more evidence that she was avoiding questions about his accident. I think the reason that makes the most sense is that she was somehow involved, or staged, or cover-up, (or a combination of all three) in Max's "accident". She did not seem to be that upset after Max went to the hospital. I think she was worried about CPS being called. I think she knew they were on to her.

IF Rebecca hanged herself, I think it is much more likely that she was distraught about the reality of NO FUTURE with Jonah. Obviously Dina would blame her for Max's death, regardless of any proof to the contrary, IMO. Rebecca was banned from visiting Max in the hospital. Obviously he wouldn't recover quickly, if at all.

If I were going to "guess" what might have been on the message from Jonah, it is much more likely that Jonah told Rebecca that Dina was on the warpath, Rebecca should leave Coronado because Jonah would be occupied with Max for the near future, and her presence in Coronado would be problematic for all concerned. She was already ambivalent about her place in Jonah's life and the harsh reality of being the scapegoat for all the anger over the accident being directed toward her may have left her feeling that the relationship was over.

IMO, it much more likely that the end of a love affair would lead to feelings of despair than a few routine questions from CPS. CPS investigates all serious injury accidents, especially if the child can't respond and answer questions themselves.

P.S. I haven't read anywhere that MOST people think the death of Rebecca is associated with her having feelings of guilt. Is this just your opinion?

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

IF Rebecca hanged herself, I think it is much more likely that she was distraught about the reality of NO FUTURE with Jonah. Obviously Dina would blame her for Max's death, regardless of any proof to the contrary, IMO. Rebecca was banned from visiting Max in the hospital. Obviously he wouldn't recover quickly, if at all.

If I were going to "guess" what might have been on the message from Jonah, it is much more likely that Jonah told Rebecca that Dina was on the warpath, Rebecca should leave Coronado because Jonah would be occupied with Max for the near future, and her presence in Coronado would be problematic for all concerned. She was already ambivalent about her place in Jonah's life and the harsh reality of being the scapegoat for all the anger over the accident being directed toward her may have left her feeling that the relationship was over.

IMO, it much more likely that the end of a love affair would lead to feelings of despair than a few routine questions from CPS. CPS investigates all serious injury accidents, especially if the child can't respond and answer questions themselves.

P.S. I haven't read anywhere that MOST people think the death of Rebecca is associated with her having feelings of guilt. Is this just your opinion?

It is not true that Rebecca was banned from the hospital. She was taken to the ER to see Max on Monday by police, and she went to see him Tuesday will Dina was home trying to get some rest.

It is the SDSO that said they thought Rebecca was upset about Max. I think there was much more to it that that, and Max's injury did not push her over the edge. I think she was much more concerned with CPS and losing out on her new lifestyle. JMO

 

[Tink56]

It is not true that Rebecca was banned from the hospital. She was taken to the ER to see Max on Monday by police, and she went to see him Tuesday will Dina was home trying to get some rest.

It is the SDSO that said they thought Rebecca was upset about Max. I think there was much more to it that that, and Max's injury did not push her over the edge. I think she was much more concerned with CPS and losing out on her new lifestyle. JMO

I am sure that Rebecca would not have been allowed at Children's if Dina was present...right?

And, I agree that RZ was upset by Max's injury, but I don't believe she would have committed suicide to avoid speaking to CPS, as that interview would have been an routine inquiry. I haven't read any quotes that lead me to believe that RZ was enchanted with her "new lifestyle." In fact, it appears that there were at least two or three individuals who tried to make her "new lifestyle," quite uncomfortable; IMO, of course.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

I am sure that Rebecca would not have been allowed at Children's if Dina was present...right?

And, I agree that RZ was upset by Max's injury, but I don't believe she would have committed suicide to avoid speaking to CPS, as that interview would have been an routine inquiry. I haven't read any quotes that lead me to believe that RZ was enchanted with her "new lifestyle." In fact, it appears that there were at least two or three individuals who tried to make her "new lifestyle," quite uncomfortable; IMO, of course.

I don't know if "allowed" is the right word. She may not have wanted to go when Dina was there. It could have been her choice, not Dina's. Or maybe Jonah didn't want them together. Rady's has a policy that only 2 people are allowed in an ICU room at a time. I highly doubt that Rebecca would want to be in the room with Dina. She probably went while Jonah was at the ER and while Jonah was there Tuesday after Dina left to go home. It is all speculation since we don't know that.

So if you don't think that she committed suicide over grief, having to speak with the ICU, or because she didn't want to lose the lifestyle she was accustomed to living, why do you think she killed herself? Because she was in love with Jonah and knew that she would lose him?

I know that is what many people think, but I believe it was a combination of things and that having to speak with detectives or CPS played a big role. JMO

 

[Tink56]

I don't know if "allowed" is the right word. She may not have wanted to go when Dina was there. It could have been her choice, not Dina's. Or maybe Jonah didn't want them together. Rady's has a policy that only 2 people are allowed in an ICU room at a time. I highly doubt that Rebecca would want to be in the room with Dina. She probably went while Jonah was at the ER and while Jonah was there Tuesday after Dina left to go home. It is all speculation since we don't know that.

So if you don't think that she committed suicide over grief, having to speak with the ICU, or because she didn't want to lose the lifestyle she was accustomed to living, why do you think she killed herself? Because she was in love with Jonah and knew that she would lose him?

I know that is what many people think, but I believe it was a combination of things and that having to speak with detectives or CPS played a big role. JMO

I don't know many things including what really happened during either accident and/or death. The evidence hasn't been fully revealed to the public or, so it seems, to all parties intimately effected by the deaths of Max and Rebecca.

IF RZ took her own life, IMO, we do not know what influenced her decision or her thought process. Those closest to her (sister, Jonah) did not see any signs of this drastic depression.

I personally do not think all the things in RZ's death add up to suicide. In fact, there are many gaping holes in the known information.

I think both cases should looked at with a fresh set of eyes. However, I personally do not think that RZ would have "assaulted" Max and chased him over the balcony. THAT scenario just does not add up to me.

Rebecca may have felt terribly guilty if somehow she felt the dog (who was still very young) might have been involved in Max's accident. I am curious about the letter addressed to Jonah. I wonder if NR verbally accosted Rebecca in any manner and made harsh accusations. I wonder if JS warned RZ that because of Max's condition, DS was blaming RZ for the accident. Where were the caretakers? What about the witnesses who heard screams for help? So many things don't seem to make sense, IMO.

I sincerely think that there will be no resolution for the families without further investigation.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Personally, I think they have plenty of evidence that proves it was suicide. IF there were calls for help, perhaps they even came from Rebecca...in order to be "saved". Maybe she wanted Adam to hear her and come rushing out. Only Rebecca knows.

I just wonder what evidence it would take for the Zahaus to accept it was suicide. If the DNA, fingerprints, and Rebeca's phone journal hasn't convinced them, I really don't know if anything will. JMO

 

[justice be served]

The operative issue is not what it will take for the Zahau family to accept it was suicide, but instead what will it take for the many, many others to believe it was suicide. Otherwise known as the general public.

In fact, this ongoing debate of how many really are on either side can be compared to the presidential polling going on right now. The number of people on this and other sites that are for the suicide belief seems to be greatly outnumbered by those that believe Rebecca was murdered (simply reference this site's polls). This fact seems to be continually left out of that equation. This may not be easily accepted but it is likely a fact.

Now with that being said and i think it would be frankly difficult to dispute this fact, it is still healthy to have the debate about what happened. But let's at least be real about polling results.

 

[Inparadise]

Personally, I think they have plenty of evidence that proves it was suicide. IF there were calls for help, perhaps they even came from Rebecca...in order to be "saved". Maybe she wanted Adam to hear her and come rushing out. Only Rebecca knows.

I just wonder what evidence it would take for the Zahaus to accept it was suicide. If the DNA, fingerprints, and Rebeca's phone journal hasn't convinced them, I really don't know if anything will. JMO

Excuse me, but how could Rebecca have called for help with a t-shirt gagged in her mouth? Whom ever put that there wanted to make sure that her screams for help were not heard.

 

[freespeech]

It is not true that Rebecca was banned from the hospital. She was taken to the ER to see Max on Monday by police, and she went to see him Tuesday will Dina was home trying to get some rest.

It is the SDSO that said they thought Rebecca was upset about Max. I think there was much more to it that that, and Max's injury did not push her over the edge. I think she was much more concerned with CPS and losing out on her new lifestyle. JMO

I thought the Coronado Police ruled that Max's death was an accident. Why would they do that if they though Rebecca murdered him. Bill Gore also adamantly and repeatedly stated stated that Max was not murdered but the victim of a tragic accident.

Two separate police agencies and the medical examiner ruled Max's death as a result of and accident. Also, the hospital never reported that Max was a homicide victim.

If any of the above agencies thought Max was killed then why didn't Dina use the original police and hospital records to prove her point. The answer is simple. It didn't happen. Rebecca had no reason to be afraid of the Coronado Police so that wouldn't be a reason to commit suicide.

 

[freespeech]

Most people believe that Rebecca committed suicide because she was upset about Max. But I think that there is much more evidence that she was avoiding questions about his accident. I think the reason that makes the most sense is that she was somehow involved, or staged, or cover-up, (or a combination of all three) in Max's "accident". She did not seem to be that upset after Max went to the hospital. I think she was worried about CPS being called. I think she knew they were on to her.

Or maybe Rebecca could not answer the questions that were asked because she did not know the answers and she did not see the accident.

You say that Rebecca did not seem that upset after the accident. Can you be more specific about why you think that by giving some reasons that show what you mean?

 

[Inparadise]

I thought the Coronado Police ruled that Max's death was an accident. Why would they do that if they though Rebecca murdered him. Bill Gore also adamantly and repeatedly stated stated that Max was not murdered but the victim of a tragic accident.

Two separate police agencies and the medical examiner ruled Max's death as a result of and accident. Also, the hospital never reported that Max was a homicide victim.

If any of the above agencies thought Max was killed then why didn't Dina use the original police and hospital records to prove her point. The answer is simple. It didn't happen. Rebecca had no reason to be afraid of the Coronado Police so that wouldn't be a reason to commit suicide.

You are so right in your thoughts........IMO, <modsnip>

 

[inthedark14]

Personally, I think they have plenty of evidence that proves it was suicide. IF there were calls for help, perhaps they even came from Rebecca...in order to be "saved". Maybe she wanted Adam to hear her and come rushing out. Only Rebecca knows.

I just wonder what evidence it would take for the Zahaus to accept it was suicide. If the DNA, fingerprints, and Rebeca's phone journal hasn't convinced them, I really don't know if anything will. JMO

Hi Curious Georgia,

Now you've got me curious...the phone journal has never been made public. Could you provide a link to how you are privy to this information?

TIA

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Excuse me, but how could Rebecca have called for help with a t-shirt gagged in her mouth? Whom ever put that there wanted to make sure that her screams for help were not heard.

Since Rebecca was the one that put the gag in her mouth (otherwise, she could have just spit it out), she could have called for help, put the gag in, and then gone over the railing. Very simple, IMO.

 

[MyBelle]

IF Rebecca hanged herself, I think it is much more likely that she was distraught about the reality of NO FUTURE with Jonah. Obviously Dina would blame her for Max's death, regardless of any proof to the contrary, IMO. Rebecca was banned from visiting Max in the hospital. Obviously he wouldn't recover quickly, if at all.

If I were going to "guess" what might have been on the message from Jonah, it is much more likely that Jonah told Rebecca that Dina was on the warpath, Rebecca should leave Coronado because Jonah would be occupied with Max for the near future, and her presence in Coronado would be problematic for all concerned. She was already ambivalent about her place in Jonah's life and the harsh reality of being the scapegoat for all the anger over the accident being directed toward her may have left her feeling that the relationship was over.

IMO, it much more likely that the end of a love affair would lead to feelings of despair than a few routine questions from CPS. CPS investigates all serious injury accidents, especially if the child can't respond and answer questions themselves.P.S. I haven't read anywhere that MOST people think the death of Rebecca is associated with her having feelings of guilt. Is this just your opinion?

BBM. CPS does not investigate ALL accidents involving children. They only investigate those that LE or treating medical personnel deem to be suspicious as happened in Max's case. I don't find it at all surprising that a father of an injured child would end a love affair if he believed his lover was responsible for the injuries.

JMO

 

[elfie]

Moving my thoughts to the appropriate thread:

I don't think it was possible, judging from the footprint and dust disturbance on the railing evidence gathered, that Rebecca went over the balcony railing on her own.

Looking at the photos of the railing, I am comfortable with a 3 1/2" - 3 3/4" disturbance as being the largest of the cleared areas. (I have estimated the disturbance areas for the hypothetical movements downward from the original post and added to it.)

The possible choices for Rebecca going over by her own will, for a person tied in the manner in which she was bound:

1. Sitting on the railing and maneuvering by pulling her knees to her chest and turning to place her bound feet on the other side of the railing, with her hands tied behind her back = contact with her rear and turning --> a much larger area would have been swiped clean, probably 15" - 16"

2. Going over sideways on her left side, head first = contact with her waist sliding down her hip to her thigh in order to achieve the shift of her center of gravity enough to go over ---> 9"-11" of completely cleared railing.
With her arms tied behind her back, this method would also require some rotation towards the front in order to accomplish.

3. Going over on her torso, head first = contact with her stomach down along to her hips to shift the center of gravity ---> 12" to 14" of completely cleared railing.

There would be no way to briefly touch the railing on her own because all of the head first scenarios involve shifting her weight and sliding in order to accomplish the shift of her center of gravity in order to go over.

The (at the very most) 5" total of complete clearing does not fit with any of these scenarios. (3 1/2" - 3 3/4" of complete clearing if you compare the daylight photo from the Sheriff's PP presentation with the tape measure at the railing, from erosion bump to erosion bump.)

The scenarios I outlined are the possibilities for a person of her height, tied in the manner that she was bound.
There are no toe or foot prints facing back towards the room, so that eliminates scenario #1.

She could not have gone over the railing backwards on her own. Her right foot toe prints were facing towards the rail on a slight diagonal to the right. There is a 1" disturbance on the rail closest to her toe print.

Also, she could not have gone over backwards with her right foot toe prints facing the rail, and her arms bound behind her back.

All other scenarios require leverage to overcome her center of gravity which would have been below the top of the railing.

There is no clearing on the railing larger than 3 1/2" - 3 3/4", eliminating the sideways and torso scenarios.

From the right foot toe print closest to the rail facing slightly to the right on a diagonal, the left hip would have been the only candidate for the sideways scenario.

Rebecca could not have gone over the railing of her own free will.

One question: Why would Rebecca have left the handle from the cord tied into the bindings?