Reasons why you think it could be suicide

[freespeech]

Based on what I've read about Jonah Shacknai, as well as the info provided by an insider here, it seems to me that he is a controlling man. Maybe he used his power and wealth to make Rebecca dependent on him, and to make her follow his orders and service his needs, so that she wasn't able to break free from him like she may have wanted when they were beginning to have problems. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that issues of power and control have occurred in relationships where the man is more richer and more powerful than the woman.

What you say is true but i also see an independent side of Rebecca.

Mary stated in MSM that..."By this summer, it was coming to a crunch for Rebecca. “We talked about it; that if the teenaged kids’ behavior doesn’t improve she was considering telling Jonah at the end of this summer that she…needed to have some time to herself.

“I don’t know if she ended up telling him or not.”

"For somebody that he was going to marry, it really surprised me that he didn’t even have one good thing to say about my sister. Though she said marriage was not being discussed at this point.”

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2...rebecca-zahau/

Also, though she went into the relationship with very little materially and would leave that way she wasn't even sure how he felt about her. Imo, i don't see that she knew for sure the relationship was going anywhere. He hadn't proposed and on the plus side she had a supportive and loving family. Also she appeared to helpful and nice according to the MSM articles so I'm assuming she wasn't a person who was being eaten alive by greed and envy so why would she kill herself. It makes no sense to me given the information available.

 

[MyBelle]

What you say is true but i also see an independent side of Rebecca.

Mary stated in MSM that..."By this summer, it was coming to a crunch for Rebecca. “We talked about it; that if the teenaged kids’ behavior doesn’t improve she was considering telling Jonah at the end of this summer that she…needed to have some time to herself.

“I don’t know if she ended up telling him or not.”

"For somebody that he was going to marry, it really surprised me that he didn’t even have one good thing to say about my sister. Though she said marriage was not being discussed at this point.”

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2...rebecca-zahau/

Also, though she went into the relationship with very little materially and would leave that way she wasn't even sure how he felt about her. Imo, i don't see that she knew for sure the relationship was going anywhere. He hadn't proposed and on the plus side she had a supportive and loving family. Also she appeared to helpful and nice according to the MSM articles so I'm assuming she wasn't a person who was being eaten alive by greed and envy so why would she kill herself. It makes no sense to me given the information available.

The sister doesn't know JS's thought-process at the time but it would not be surprising if his feelings for RZ changed dramatically after Max's injury even if her feelings for JS did not change. It certainly would not be the first suicide resulting from a broken relationship.

JMO

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

My theory is that a few things happened that made RZ feel too depressed and angry at Jonah to continue on with her life. And I think she wanted revenge upon him as well.
My theory is that the 13 yr old girl, whom she sometimes referred to as her daughter, was somehow involved in the incident. There are weird things like about them being on the way to the beach, but the girl is in the shower when it happened. Pretty convenient. And she told odd things to the dispatcher and about the incident--like Maxie said ' Ocean' before he died. I don't believe he was able to say anything after that horrific fall. And she had injuries from the glass that needed treatment, because supposedly she was cleaning up the mess. Why would she be charged with cleaning up a bloody, glass shard filled accident scene? Don't they have help? And she was ushered out of there on the next plane out.

I think that RZ was in an impossible position, trying to cover for her younger relative and still trying to stay with her fiance. But she soon reallsed that she was getting the cold shoulder, not being allowed into the hospital, and Jonah staying away from her.

I think he called her and broke off their relationship and spoke in some ugly ways to her that night.So she decided to stage a murder scene to make his life as miserable as hers was. jmo

BBM

Katydid23, I totally agree that Rebecca was sending Jonah a huge message, and that she wanted to punish both Jonah and Dina. I think the last message was him telling her that she would have to speak to CPS, and that the accident didn't seem like it happened the way she said. I think she was extremely angry that Jonah was standing by Max, not her.

I also find many things suspicious about the 13 year old:

- First she was "washing her hair", and that changed to "taking a shower", all before they were going to spend a day at the beach. Why would she take a shower or wash her hair if she were going to the beach?

- Why did X call 911? Why would RZ put a teen on the phone for such an important call?

- Why would RZ call her sister before she called Jonah after Max's accident? Was MZ helping her come up with a story?

- It seems like she would get glass in her hand, not in her leg, if she got the injury while cleaning the glass. The injury was deep enough to require stitches. How did that happen if she was just picking up glass?

- Why was she rushed home immediately instead of keeping her follow-up appointment at the Clinic? Wouldn't she and Mary have wanted her to stay to be with Rebecca during this difficult time?

- Why did she and Rebecca go shopping? What did they purchase? It seems very odd to me that she would take her sister shopping like that while Max was in the ICU. Did anyone see them? What did they purchase? What was their mood? Jovial? Sad?

- Why did Mary take out the stitches instead of taking the 13 year old to a Doctor for a follow-up and to have the stitches removed?

- Why has the Zahau family allowed the rumors about GS and ES to spread and flourish? IMO, X would have know the night before (Sunday night) that GS and ES were leaving around 7 in the morning. She had just gotten there on Sunday. She and GS and ES would have spent some time together. Both she and RZ would have known the day before what time the other teens were leaving on Sunday. By not clearing this up, have they been trying to provide a smoke screen to cover up real teen involved?

- Why have the Zahaus been so reluctant to even state that X was there? Seems like they've tried to keep it a secret, IMO.


To me, there are so many things that prove Rebecca killed herself. I really have no doubt about that at all. But I do wonder WHY. There could be many reasons, but so far, as Mary stated, I don't see Rebecca being overly upset about Max. I find how she hung herself to be full of anger and revenge. Did she hate Dina that much, as some have claimed? And when Jonah was questioning what really happened, did Rebecca take that as some sort of betrayal on his part?

That is what is fascinating about this case. There are so many reasons why she would have done what she did. But unless the messages that she sent and received that day are released, I don' think we will ever know what she was truly thinking. IMO, the texts and calls between her and Jonah tell the tale.

 

[MyBelle]

BBM

Katydid23, I totally agree that Rebecca was sending Jonah a huge message, and that she wanted to punish both Jonah and Dina. I think the last message was him telling her that she would have to speak to CPS, and that the accident didn't seem like it happened the way she said. I think she was extremely angry that Jonah was standing by Max, not her.

I also find many things suspicious about the 13 year old:

- First she was "washing her hair", and that changed to "taking a shower", all before they were going to spend a day at the beach. Why would she take a shower or wash her hair if she were going to the beach?

- Why did X call 911? Why would RZ put a teen on the phone for such an important call?

- Why would RZ call her sister before she called Jonah after Max's accident? Was MZ helping her come up with a story?

- It seems like she would get glass in her hand, not in her leg, if she got the injury while cleaning the glass. The injury was deep enough to require stitches. How did that happen if she was just picking up glass?

- Why was she rushed home immediately instead of keeping her follow-up appointment at the Clinic? Wouldn't she and Mary have wanted her to stay to be with Rebecca during this difficult time?

- Why did she and Rebecca go shopping? What did they purchase? It seems very odd to me that she would take her sister shopping like that while Max was in the ICU. Did anyone see them? What did they purchase? What was their mood? Jovial? Sad?

- Why did Mary take out the stitches instead of taking the 13 year old to a Doctor for a follow-up and to have the stitches removed?

- Why has the Zahau family allowed the rumors about GS and ES to spread and flourish? IMO, X would have know the night before (Sunday night) that GS and ES were leaving around 7 in the morning. She had just gotten there on Sunday. She and GS and ES would have spent some time together. Both she and RZ would have known the day before what time the other teens were leaving on Sunday. By not clearing this up, have they been trying to provide a smoke screen to cover up real teen involved?

- Why have the Zahaus been so reluctant to even state that X was there? Seems like they've tried to keep it a secret, IMO.


To me, there are so many things that prove Rebecca killed herself. I really have no doubt about that at all. But I do wonder WHY. There could be many reasons, but so far, as Mary stated, I don't see Rebecca being overly upset about Max. I find how she hung herself to be full of anger and revenge. Did she hate Dina that much, as some have claimed? And when Jonah was questioning what really happened, did Rebecca take that as some sort of betrayal on his part?

That is what is fascinating about this case. There are so many reasons why she would have done what she did. But unless the messages that she sent and received that day are released, I don' think we will ever know what she was truly thinking. IMO, the texts and calls between her and Jonah tell the tale.

Good points. I've always held the opinion that the younger sister made the 9-1-1 call because RZ was supposedly giving CPR. When did she get cut by the glass? Was it before 911 was called or after MS was taken to the hospital?

 

[freespeech]

Hi Freespeach, this thread is for those that believe Rebecca committed suicide. I think this belongs on another thread? Could you move it to a more appropriate thread? Thanks!

Ok, i see that now. How do i move it? i didn't notice at first because used the option at the bottom of the page to go to the previous thread..then read Gyspychild's comment and responded. I am glad to move it as soon as I figure out how.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Good points. I've always held the opinion that the younger sister made the 9-1-1 call because RZ was supposedly giving CPR. When did she get cut by the glass? Was it before 911 was called or after MS was taken to the hospital?

I believe the story has been that she cut it afterwards, but how do we know that for sure? Do we know what time Rebecca took her to get the stitches? I'm not sure if we are allowed to discuss whether or not CPR was given, but RZ did say different things to different people about that.

 

[Betty P]

I believe the story has been that she cut it afterwards, but how do we know that for sure? Do we know what time Rebecca took her to get the stitches? I'm not sure if we are allowed to discuss whether or not CPR was given, but RZ did say different things to different people about that.

According to the police report, the Coronado PD gave both Rebecca and her sister a ride to the urgent care center so she could get stitches for her cut.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

So if the police took them, it must have been around the time of Max's accident? Why would the police be there later in the day?

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

I think many of these suicide theories have alot of merrit. I can defineately see a woman killing herself under these circumstances. However, when I go over the physical evidence it doesn't follow through.

It is the iron railing dust marks that do not add up. With hands tied behind her back, feet tied tightly together, t-shirt tied three times and knotted around her neck and the noose... how does she get over the railing.

With her feet tied so tightly together it is impossible for her to get any momentum going to launch herself over that railing. The momentum to go over that railing she would have to have leaped several feet away. There is one toe print near the railing. Did she leave this when she tested the length of the rope? Again with feed tied to tightly... impossible to get momentum.

Then....if she hops to the edge of the railing... to tip her centre of gravity she has to lay completely over that railing face forward. The dust marks on the railing are simply not wide enough and the marks on RZ's body do not match up. Putting all your weight on your front hips would leave bruises. That kind of movement on that railing would leave at least 12 to 15 inches of dust completely rubbed off. There are only three spots of dust rubbed off that railing all made by the rope.

If she killed herself how did she get over that railing?

And let's not forget she did this in the dark. The lights were out in the room. All of them when the police arrived.

What about the contusions on her head? Dr. Wecht states these could have resulted in her becoming unconscious. There was a very large heavy red dog bone in that room. I have held these they weight several lbs.

Then you add that to the neck damage. That is a very long drop and the neck does not show evidence of a long drop break. In fact there are TWO areas of damage on her neck. One from the t-shirt... and one from the rope?

If you believe suicide then how does she get over the railing and how does she injure her neck twice?

 

[justice be served]

So if the police took them, it must have been around the time of Max's accident? Why would the police be there later in the day?

The timeline on ths forum (or used to be on this forum) doesn't indicate the police were back at the house later that day on July 11th. Where is that linked? Did i miss that somewhere?

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Hello Mrs. Holmes, since this forum is for those that believe the suicide ruling, I'm not going to answer any posts questioning that conclusion.

I'm not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but there are plenty of other threads for those that want to discuss why they think it was not suicide and we shouldn't have to defend our position on suicide with every post. Hopefully, posters here will cover some of the questions you had at some point, so check back if you want to know our theories.

 

[justice be served]

So if the police took them, it must have been around the time of Max's accident? Why would the police be there later in the day?

CG, I asked you above to simply reference a link to what you had stated about the police being back at the house later in the day of Max's accident. I hardly think that is out of line for this thread. The rules of the forum are to back up information stated as fact. You did state that as fact.

I cannot find anything that references that 'fact' anywhere. Can you please provide that info as it is outstanding otherwise.

I also believe, but will check with a mod, that challenging/discussing posts, if appropriately done, is the purpose of Websleuths. Your desire to not answer posts is certainly your prerogative as well so I don't dispute that.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

CG, I asked you above to simply reference a link to what you had stated about the police being back at the house later in the day of Max's accident. I hardly think that is out of line for this thread. The rules of the forum are to back up information stated as fact. You did state that as fact.

I cannot find anything that references that 'fact' anywhere. Can you please provide that info as it is outstanding otherwise.

I also believe, but will check with a mod, that challenging/discussing posts, if appropriately done, is the purpose of Websleuths. Your desire to not answer posts is certainly your prerogative as well so I don't dispute that.

Hi Justice be served, I was asking the question, not stating it as a fact. It was another poster that stated that. Maybe they will post a link for you.

As far as challenging posts, Salem states in post #101:

Hi elementry - I'm going to answer this question. This thread is for those who believe that RN committed suicide. We have a thread for those who believe it was a murder and there are a couple of threads where the discussion bounces back and forth. But this thread is specially for stating why you think it was a suicide and something as simple as "it is my gut feeling" will stand.

Hope that helps and send me a pm if you have any questions.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

While accidental hanging is rare, and homicidal hanging is even rarer, hanging is the third most common form of suicide and accounts for 16% of all male, and 13% of all female suicides. Rarely is the neck broken. In order to break a neck, a drop of six feet or more is required, which rarely happens except in execution hanging.

Hanging, whether done with rope, an electrical cord or a belt, always leaves an inverted V bruise, and is easy to tell from ligature strangulation (murder), which leaves a straight-line bruise. Hanging compresses the veins, but arterial blood flow continues, causing small bleeding sites on the lips, inside the mouth and on the eyelids.


http://www.writing-world.com/mystery/suicide.shtml

Rebecca's autopsy showed she had the V shaped bruise on her neck that shows she jumped off the balconey, imo.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

Fact: Only 15 to 25 percent of those who complete suicide leave a note. Moreover, these documents often tell us little about why the person decided to take his or her own life.

https://www.oaklawn.org/files/file/Suicide.pdf

 

[Betty P]

So if the police took them, it must have been around the time of Max's accident? Why would the police be there later in the day?

Conducting their investigation. While some might imply the Coronado PD closed the case immediately after Max's death, they did continue to investigate, gather evidence, etc.

If you ask why the Coronado PD drove them, all we can say is that we don't know. As you know, most details of this case have not been made public.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

While accidental hanging is rare, and homicidal hanging is even rarer, hanging is the third most common form of suicide and accounts for 16% of all male, and 13% of all female suicides. Rarely is the neck broken. In order to break a neck, a drop of six feet or more is required, which rarely happens except in execution hanging.

Hanging, whether done with rope, an electrical cord or a belt, always leaves an inverted V bruise, and is easy to tell from ligature strangulation (murder), which leaves a straight-line bruise. Hanging compresses the veins, but arterial blood flow continues, causing small bleeding sites on the lips, inside the mouth and on the eyelids.


http://www.writing-world.com/mystery/suicide.shtml

Rebecca's autopsy showed she had the V shaped bruise on her neck that shows she jumped off the balconey, imo.

There were two places of damage on her neck... one straight... done by the t-shirt... someone strangled her with it? And the V shaped bruise...that would have occured with the rope hagning.... someone threw her over the balcony to hide the strangulation..make it look like suicide?

The length of the drop was aproximately seven feet ... here is a re-enactment... this also questions the movement of the bed.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15940480/...nt-reveals-new-questions?clienttype=printable

Dr. Wecht says the neck should have been broken in a long drop hanging..RZ's neck was not broken.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Fact: Only 15 to 25 percent of those who complete suicide leave a note. Moreover, these documents often tell us little about why the person decided to take his or her own life.

https://www.oaklawn.org/files/file/Suicide.pdf

The painting on the door could be considered a suicide note.... and another oddity against statistics.... makes the this death more extrodinary that any kind of note was left...

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Hello Mrs. Holmes, since this forum is for those that believe the suicide ruling, I'm not going to answer any posts questioning that conclusion.

I'm not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but there are plenty of other threads for those that want to discuss why they think it was not suicide and we shouldn't have to defend our position on suicide with every post. Hopefully, posters here will cover some of the questions you had at some point, so check back if you want to know our theories.

Just giving everyone the facts to work with.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

It is possible that RZ with hands behind her back... put her hands on the railing, then her rear end and pushed off the top of the railing.... still the marks on the railing... she was a small woman but her rear end would have left a mark on the railing... larger than the three two inch marks... that were in the railing photos..

Still can not figure out how she got over that railing on her own ... all tied up...

what do you guys think... how did she do it?