Rescue at sea for sick baby

[Snoods]

So, the Rebel Heart was never going to make it to any port. Eric didn't decide to scuttle his vessel to be with his family, he had no choice. His boat was doomed and he knew it.

Quote from rescuer:
Also, their boat was dead in the water when National Guard pararescuers arrived. The Rebel Heart only had 10 to 11 hours of diesel fuel left and took on water when the engine engaged, according to a 129th Air Rescue Wing guardsman.

http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2014/Apr/10/rebelheart-cost-nationalguard-navy-rescue/


So Eric was an EMT and didn't know how to give his daughter antibiotics?

<modsnip>
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f129/rebel-heart-crew-suing-129206-26.html

It's not difficult to connect the dots.

If the facts are on your side, pound the facts into the table. If the law is on your side, pound the law into the table. If neither the facts nor the law are on your side, go on Good Morning America.

(Must give credit to smackdaddy on cruisersforum who compiled this information, I just reworded)

 

[Snoods]

Oh my gosh, why is this guy doing this to his family? Eric Kaufman's name on another site is "Faceman: Hitting switches, pulling bi*ches." He's already deleted all of his comments but a lot of them are quoted and the people over there don't seem very fond of Eric.

How does he not realize the internet is forever?

https://xerq.io/threads/376075-Faceman-suing-satellite-phone-company

 

[wendiesan]

There seem to be slightly different takes on the scuttling procedures. I'm not sure if these takes are contradictory, or support each other. It sounds like the authorities could not allow Rebel Heart to drift aimlessly since it would be a navigation hazard, that EK agreed with them, and that he cut the holes in the sailboat to sink it himself. Are there entries in his blog that would support this interpretation of events?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/07/baby-girl-rescued-us-navy-warship-lyra-kaufman

Authorities decided to sink the Rebel Heart because it was taking on water, Bena said.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...c-baby-20140405_1_sailboat-coast-guard-family

The sailboat, christened the Rebel Heart, was scuttled by the Navy as a navigation hazard, in concurrence with the family that the boat was not seaworthy enough to tow back to port, Dixon said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/10/rebel-heart-family-returns-safely_n_5127650.html

The Kaufmans' crippled sailboat, listing badly and considered a navigation hazard, was scuttled by the father himself, who cut holes in the vessel and then watched it sink after he was taken off the yacht on Monday morning, Navy officials said.

 

[Snoods]

Lol wendiesan I didn't even know what "scuttle" meant before this thread, but to me it sounds like they all basically agree with each other, don't you think? The Rebel Heart wasn't going to make it to any port, and Eric wanted to be the one to sink it. :dunno:

 

[Kamille]

In her own words Charlotte indicates that it was a series of events that lead to the scuttling of the boat. Nowhere in her article did she mention that their satellite phone was to blame...

After the rescue: the Kaufman family speaks

By Charlotte Kaufman
Published: 2014.05.19 02:54 PM

We were 900 nautical miles off the coast of Mexico when we made the decision to push the EPIRB (an emergency beacon) on our sailboat, signaling for help. Put simply, our one-year-old daughter, Lyra, became sick while we were underway. Her condition continued to deteriorate, even on antibiotics, and we needed to get her help. Additionally, our boat suffered damage during several squalls in the Inter-Tropical Convergence Zone, leading to a complicated, culminating series of events requiring a rescue and the scuttling of our boat to prevent it from becoming a navigational hazard (scuttling is cutting holes in a boat to force it to sink).

http://www.sandiegomagazine.com/San...4/After-the-Rescue-The-Kaufman-Family-Speaks/

 

[gitana1]

One more thing. The Kaufman's are including the cost of their rescue in their lawsuit against the sat company. Now, I received my law degree from the Judge Judy school of law so I defer to Gitana on this one, but can you sue for something that you yourself haven't even paid and won't ever be obligated to pay?

I didn;t see that they are including the cost of their recuse as "damages". I saw that they would like to pay back the Navy out of any award they receive. Or so they say.

Frankly I believe they just want someone to buy them a new boat.

 

[redheadedgal]

damaged boat... lagging vessel... rough seas... cramped cabin that poured seawater with every breaking wave

and no mention of a phone that was responsible for anything... just constant defending their actions and way of life

http://www.therebelheart.com/charlottes-blog/2014/4/13/overwhelmed-shocked-saddened.html

 

[Kamille]

damaged boat... lagging vessel... rough seas... cramped cabin that poured seawater with every breaking wave

and no mention of a phone that was responsible for anything... just constant defending their actions and way of life

http://www.therebelheart.com/charlottes-blog/2014/4/13/overwhelmed-shocked-saddened.html

Nothing in that blog post indicates that they would have been fine if they had a working phone. I hope the legal team of whomever they're choosing to sue is getting screenshots of posts like that before they disappear.

MOO

 

[wendiesan]

FWIW, this post just went up today and has some interesting information from Kaufman attorney, Dan Gilleon courtesy of writer, Charles Doan.

http://www.sailfeed.com/2014/07/rebel-heart-lawsuit-against-sat-phone-provider/

Doan gives a synopsis of the incident to establish the context and, having received a copy of the complaint from DG, launches into questions about the suit.

Towards the beginning of his reply to the first question, DG made this statement.

The US will not go after the Kaufmans due to a policy of not seeking reimbursement as against the people who are rescued, as doing so may discourage people from calling for help. This does not, however, legally prohibit the US from seeking reimbursement should the Kaufman&#8217;s attain financial compensation from the satellite phone company. We have offered to assist the US obtain compensation of their own through this action, but our means of seeking that cooperation is somewhat limited until an attorney is assigned to the case.

I'm curious to hear what you all think of this.

 

[Linda7NJ]

FWIW, this post just went up today and has some interesting information from Kaufman attorney, Dan Gilleon courtesy of writer, Charles Doan.

http://www.sailfeed.com/2014/07/rebel-heart-lawsuit-against-sat-phone-provider/

Doan gives a synopsis of the incident to establish the context and, having received a copy of the complaint from DG, launches into questions about the suit.

Towards the beginning of his reply to the first question, DG made this statement.



I'm curious to hear what you all think of this.

It's no wonder lawyers are so often despised...
This is ridiculous and disgusting!!!!

IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kamille]

With regards to the lawsuit, the lawyer is saying that even though the Kaufman's have not been asked for repayment of the rescue. there is nothing at this time that says the government can not sue them for repayment if they were to be awarded a lot of money. He's actually claiming that the government can sit back and see if they get any money and then go after them. Like they actually would. *eyeroll* So to prevent that, the lawyer wants the government to either get on board with the lawsuit for their damages, or to release the Kaufman's from any liability for the cost of the rescue.

Eric apparently claims to be an EMT. Neither of them are first time parents. This was not their first experience with the particular illness that the baby had. The pararescuers apparently did nothing other than to keep administering the antibiotics they had on board. Not sure what different "method" they used. I'm assuming they slowly fed the baby the antibiotic via a syringe rather than try to get her to take it from a spoon? I'm assuming all parents administer liquid medication to young children this way? To maximize the chances that they will actually swallow it all and there will be no spillage? I would be shocked to find out that an EMT and a second time mother did not consider this method of administering liquid medication to a child.

Anyway, I still don't see how anything would have changed had they been able to speak to a doctor via satellite phone. If anything, I would hope that doctor would have told them to push the EPIRB and get their sick child off that boat and back to shore for medical assistance as quickly as possible since there was no way of knowing just how sick she was via telephone. I can't see any doctor taking the chance on a baby's life by telling someone in the middle of the ocean, in a somewhat crippled boat (whose HR radio was damaged at that point) that was taking on water and was experiencing some very rough seas to stay the course with the medication and enjoy their trip to paradise. So again...I can't see how things would have changed if they had a working phone.

And when the pararescuers showed up with their phones, why didn't the Kaufman's use one of them to contact their own provider to find out what was wrong with the sim card on their own phone if they were so concerned about being able to be in touch with their doctor or anyone for that matter? If the baby was doing fine after the pararescuers helped them administer the antibiotics they had on board, I have to assume that they didn't have to get on the Navy ship. They all could have stayed on their boat and sailed it back if they had sorted out the phone issue. None of those options were taken as they knew that the situation warranted all of them getting off the boat to get back safely and to scuttle the boat. That decision appeared to have already been made when they were all waiting for the Vandegrift to get to them. The phone made no difference IMO.

MOO

 

[1&2&3]

Wonder if this couple has realized that regardless of all their cleaning up their social media accounts, the biggest factor they have against them is their rescuers?

The men who parachuted into the water, lived with them on the boat that was not seaworthy, treated the sick child, and will testify the whole truth as to what their circumstances were! And not what the conditions were as Eric would like to tell the story?

It may be the first time Mr. Eric will have to face the truth about his dream boat!

My opinions only.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Anyway, I still don't see how anything would have changed had they been able to speak to a doctor via satellite phone.

They did speak to a doctor. Eric made 2 phone calls before the cell phone company shut them down:

It began with a fever, then a rash and then Lyra became lethargic. That was when the couple used their satellite cell phone to call a doctor. He advised them to begin treating Lyra with the antibiotics they had stored in the sailboat's well-stocked medical locker. When the antibiotics did not work, Eric Kaufman, an experienced sailor, called the U.S. Coast Guard. The Coast Guard told him to keep the satellite phone on and said they would consult with a pediatrician and call them back. The call never came.

 

[Kamille]

They did speak to a doctor. Eric made 2 phone calls before the cell phone company shut them down:

From reading that it appears that they called the doctor many days earlier. When the antibiotics appeared not to be working after that call to the Mexican doctor, they called the USCG. The CG operator was likely co-ordinating what to do about the situation and what to tell them when the phone went dead. When Eric realized that they could not get a hold of them (their HR radio was damaged) they decided to push the button. While I do believe they were worried about Lyra not responding well to the antibiotics, I also believe that since they didn't choose to call the USCG until the boat had suffered damages from the conditions that they were faced with when they started sailing in the ITCZ and things were just not looking well for a safe passage at that point, that this was the catalyst for the rescue. We do not know at this point what the CG would have told them if they had been able to reach them. My guess would be that the CG would have suggested that they abort their trip and accept a rescue for the sake of the baby's health and for the safety of the entire family or at least suggest that they turn around and head back to the closest port. Question is, would they have made it?

Imagine the lawsuit we'd be discussing if they had called them back and told them to administer the antibiotic slowly by letting the baby suck it out of the syringe, continue on their journey and the baby or the entire family had perished at sea due to illness and the unsafe conditions that their boat could not handle?

Too many what ifs in this situation. Things happen for a reason. They got the best possible outcome. They got help...quickly. Lyra is doing well and thriving. They should be happy with that and not be trying to capitalize on the situation other than telling their story to interested individuals IMO. At first I thought that's what they might do. But it appears they refuse to accept any blame about what happened so they have taken a different path. Sad.

MOO

 

[redheadedgal]

eric: don't ask for money for boats and sailing (paraphrased, his language is way more foul)

http://www.therebelheart.com/blog/NaN/NaN/NaN/how-sad-it-is-to-be-a-white-middle-class-yachtie.html

 

[redheadedgal]

read their lawyer's comment... asking for those who need to, to take responsibility?! <<< --- the irony is rich !

lmao

https://plus.google.com/+EricKaufman/posts

 

[Hoosgirl]

The complaint:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uwtbl9xe3y2qhos/Conformed Complaint.pdf

I reeaaaallly want to hear Gitana's take on this!

 

[Boodles]

And still, the complaint does not explain why the SIM card was deactivated. There is a reason, but no one seems willing to say it out loud.

Not that it matters regarding the Kaufman's negligence IMO...

 

[Hoosgirl]

Well, here's an article with a response from sat phone company:

http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jul/16/kaufman-family-boat-suit-whenever-communications/

 

[Kamille]

Well that is a terrible complaint. First off, according to the complaint Lyra was doing quite well after the rescuers came on board, therefore what was the reason Eric made the decision that they would all get on the Vandegrift when it came to pick up its para rescuers? No one forced any of them to get off their boat and scuttle it it seems. Pressing the EPIRB was not an "automatic scuttling of their boat" as the complaint tries to indicate. Sounds like there was no reason for them to leave their boat, and they didn't even require the help of the para rescuers, just needed a doctor to tell a self described "EMT" how to administer antibiotics to an infant while bobbing around in high seas.

Says right there in the complaint that Eric made the decision for everyone to get off the boat which in turn does mean that the boat has to be scuttled. Which I highly doubt it was his decision anyway. I think Charlotte had had enough at that point and was getting off with the kids whether he liked it or not. And her blogs completely belie the tall tales in that complaint of what an experienced sailor she was. According to the blogs she spent most of her time on that boat when it was not anchored being sick and laying down to try to stop the nausea. And since the complaint also indicates that once they were in the ITCZ they could not turn around, and the subsequent squalls and general rough seas associated with that zone seemed to expose the fact that their boat was not particularly seaworthy, I'd say not having satellite service to speak to a doctor saved their lives. And why did they not call their Mexican doctor back the second time? Why did they want the USCG to find them some medical advice? I guess they didn't trust the Mexican doctor?

I see they are pussy footing around the reason for the phone's deactivation. It does sound like a "billing issue" to me and there is nothing illegal about a phone provider cutting off service for non payment. I didnt read anything in that complaint about a new type of sim card being implemented without warning. Using the company spokeman's word against them is a cheap shot too. That comment was probably made in regards to the accusation that they deactivated the card for no apparent reason.


MOO