Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 1/29 thru 2/2 - Break

[cricket49]

Watching Behind the Headlines - Jodi Arias right now.

Dr. Lawrence Koblinsky, a medical examiner, stated Travis was stabbed multiple times, his throat was slit from one end to the other and he was shot in the head. All of these 3 traumas are fatal blows. This is what he calls overkill. A crime of extreme rage.

 

[Steely Dan]

Reposting this from yesterday to add to the "Is Jodi crazy?" discussion. Knowing the Hughes are among TA's closest friends, JA arrives at their house uninvited to complain of Travis's failure to commit to her. She volunteers without apology that she's hacked his social media accounts and had all the messages between TA and other women forwarded to her. Whatever "normal/sane" behavior is, that's not it. Yet, just like her post-murder letter to the Alexanders, JA doesn't see any problem in her own behavior. Is there a mental term for someone's who's so completely self-absorbed that she only "sees" people she believes can benefit her in some way and all others are invisible to her?

Psychopath.

 

[BritsKate]

Reposting this from yesterday to add to the "Is Jodi crazy?" discussion. Knowing the Hughes are among TA's closest friends, JA arrives at their house uninvited to complain of Travis's failure to commit to her. She volunteers without apology that she's hacked his social media accounts and had all the messages between TA and other women forwarded to her. Whatever "normal/sane" behavior is, that's not it. Yet, just like her post-murder letter to the Alexanders, JA doesn't see any problem in her own behavior. Is there a mental term for someone's who's so completely self-absorbed that she only "sees" people she believes can benefit her in some way and all others are invisible to her?

Not a proper mental health diagnosis, but I still say psychopathy best describes her. JMO

Psychopaths see others in terms of how they can be conveniently and cunningly used and manipulated to assist them in achieving their selfish goals and ambitions. Superficial friendships, transitory alliances and even partnerships (including marital) manifest as psychopaths perceive others in terms of their utilitarian value as tools, steppingstones or springboards toward achieving their success. As soon as psychopaths believe others have served their purpose, they are deemed no longer of any real value and quickly disposed of, discarded and/or betrayed. Loyalty is a foreign and abstract construct to psychopaths.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/masters-of-manipulation-psychopaths-rule-the-world/5383706

 

[Truth Detector]

Exactly, I re watched the video yesterday of the friend of TA and he said Jodi had an air of sexuality and she used it. According to him most of the men fell for her flirting but the women saw right through it. He was the guy that TA referenced in one of the last emails to Jodi about her posting to his FB page that made her look like a . (forgot his name).

Danny Jones

 

[LinTX]

Horn did not tetsify in this part, right? Just gave an opinion to Juan? That's how I remember it.

So, again, they changed their opinion because Horn offered an opinion on order of wounds. Juan didn't have that before, just a theory, same as Flores.

I suspect that at the time of that Chronis hearing, JM was using Flores & his notes/reports (and the autopsy report). Flores talked to Horn (JM didn't) and thought it was gunshot first so he misinterpreted something Horn may have said and testified to that at the hearing - just as he said during the trial, IMO. As busy as both prosecutors and ME's are, and with the heavy caseloads both have, I doubt JM & Horn talked directly for a long time. Prosecutors don't investigate cases, the PD does and prosecutors work off of their notes/records, giving the detective a call if there is a question, etc. (They do have investigators in the DA's office, but they generally don't do this kind of casework either) IRL, many times prosecutors don't meet with a witness- especially a known expert that is used to testifying - until just before their court appearance unless they have a question or notice a problem. When my husband was a detective, he'd often go over the case with the prosecutor in the hallway before the trial - no, not on capital cases (they meet on those) but that's how it worked on some pretty serious charges/crimes. So I don't think they changed their opinion as much as discovered Flores' error once JM and Horn got together, whenever that happened. As for the typo, IIRC, the ME's office was seriously understaffed during the time of that autopsy. Missing that "not" was probably pretty easy to miss, and I thought Horn looked seriously puzzled when that came up in trial.

And we don't know for sure what path the bullet took because Dr. Horn stated the brain matter was in decomposition.

We know where the bullet entered the skull and where it crashed through the cranial plate (leaving a large hole) before entering the facial area - they showed that picture in court. There is no way that trajectory between the skull & the hole in the cranial plate missed or even 'skimmed' the brain. Horn also said that hitting that bone/plate may have changed the original trajectory so it's not necessarily a straight path from the entry point to where the bullet lodged. He testified there was very little bleeding, not even in the sinus area. Cases where people were able to move & survive these shootings generally involve a path straight from front to back, high up in the skull - not one where it crosses from side to side, and perforates the cranial plate like this one did. He would have been unconscious and probably wouldn't have survived it for long. :moo:

 

[MeeBee]

I found one mention of Horn's interview on the docket (Note dated 5/05/11) but couldn't find the minute entry where it mentions anything about him being interviewed.

Not interviewed. Juan (or Flores for Juan) talked to him during the time of the sequencing debate and Horn was for the first time asked to offer his opinion. He studied the autopsy and gave an opinion based on what he knew. This is what I remember from his testimony. He said his job is not typically to figure these things out but he was asked one day and offered his opinion to the state based on the autopsy.

 

[MeeBee]

I definatlely think she deserves the DP. But AZ recently reversed the DP sentence of one of the killers of katiecoollady's sister. During appellate process his lawyers suddenly found evidence of mental retardation and brought in a grade school teacher of his to testify iirc.

That's a little different. IIRC he had a low IQ and a judge who was anti death and biased towards the killers. Jodi has a very high IQ. She'll never get off for that.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Are you referring to this pic?

View attachment 68571

I think it's the one where Jodi is on a beach with two -three guys in wet suits. IIRC someone (male) said that Jodi had showed up at a PPL event that Travis hadn't invited her to one time also. Travis was looking forward to her not being around and poof there she was.

 

[joypath]

So well stated, LinTX!

The interactions between LE & OCME are NOT as distinct as those shown on TV shows! Yes, LE will push for information ASAP and yes, they will provide their hypothesis BUT the OCME staff members should NOT provide confirmatory answers to the hypothetical questions UNTIL solid, proven facts are available! Before trial ALL of the investigators' (LE, DA &OCME) reports SHOULD be reviewed by the DA/ADA, @ a hearing/probable cause "meeting", sometimes not all of the SOLID informational facts are set in concrete.
Yes, the OCME's office @ that time was both understaffed and seriously underpaid, making recruiting very difficult! Totally agree that Dr. Horn's reaction on the stand was one of puzzlement! @ that time, I admitted on another post that I ALSO had totally missed the typo/error from the report, probably due to the fact that given the really significant information that followed, of course the dura was damaged! COMMON SENSE, boiler-plated report formatting probably just "took over"!

Have to admit that this public "outing" brought a change in our agency's reporting formula & re-enforced our "table reads" of cases before final signouts!


IMVHO, the weapon was fired because she heard sounds that she assumed were consistent with life!

 

[Wing Ding]

Well if BPD is a mental illness I think some jurors might not want to give her the DP because they think she is sick. I thought in the trial, everyone played down that it was a mental illness. Or maybe that was Jodi not wanting anyone to think she had a mental illness.

I re watched Dr. DeMarte's testimony and you could tell Jodi was furious when DeMarte was diagnosing her. Looking down most of the time and scribbling.

Right. I think in the first trial the defense wanted the jury to believe their abuse/self-defense argument, so hearing a prosecution witness tell the jury JA has BPD flew in the face of their case.

But now that she's already been convicted, you might think the defense would play up the BPD angle for her mitigation. But did they? Nope. Back to more trashing of a dead man and his reputation.

Excellent strategy!

 

[ElleElle]

Well if BPD is a mental illness I think some jurors might not want to give her the DP because they think she is sick. I thought in the trial, everyone played down that it was a mental illness. Or maybe that was Jodi not wanting anyone to think she had a mental illness.

I re watched Dr. DeMarte's testimony and you could tell Jodi was furious when DeMarte was diagnosing her. Looking down most of the time and scribbling.

I've wondered that if JA has a mental illness, she would of went with the "I snapped because i'm crazy" defense? She may have BPD or even bi-polar, but she has more than that, IMO. Wasn't she also diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder?

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...ality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20027920

 

[Wing Ding]

Murderers suffering from Schizophrenia are often sentenced and put to death. I don't see why JA should be spared a death sentence because of her BPD or whatever it is that she has. She knew the difference between right and wrong and was of clear enough mind to shrewdly cover her tracks.

Also... JA just couldn't help herself. I think her superiority complex got the best of her.

 

[daisydomino]

I've wondered that if JA has a mental illness, she would of went with the "I snapped because i'm crazy" defense? She may have BPD or even bi-polar, but she has more than that, IMO. Wasn't she also diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder?

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...ality-disorder/basics/definition/con-20027920

She doesn't need a defense. She's already been found guilty of premeditated, especially cruel murder in the first degree.

What she needs is mitigation. I think the premeditation kind of cancels out "snapped."

 

[ElleElle]

Reposting this from yesterday to add to the "Is Jodi crazy?" discussion. Knowing the Hughes are among TA's closest friends, JA arrives at their house uninvited to complain of Travis's failure to commit to her. She volunteers without apology that she's hacked his social media accounts and had all the messages between TA and other women forwarded to her. Whatever "normal/sane" behavior is, that's not it. Yet, just like her post-murder letter to the Alexanders, JA doesn't see any problem in her own behavior. Is there a mental term for someone's who's so completely self-absorbed that she only "sees" people she believes can benefit her in some way and all others are invisible to her?

"Antisocial personality disorder signs and symptoms may include:

Disregard for right and wrong
Persistent lying or deceit to exploit others
Using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or for sheer personal pleasure
Intense egocentrism, sense of superiority and exhibitionism
Recurring difficulties with the law
Repeatedly violating the rights of others by the use of intimidation, dishonesty and misrepresentation
Child abuse or neglect
Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, impulsiveness, aggression or violence
Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others
Unnecessary risk-taking or dangerous behaviors
Poor or abusive relationships
Irresponsible work behavior
Failure to learn from the negative consequences of behavior
"

 

[TexMex]

She doesn't need a defense. She's already been found guilty of premeditated, especially cruel murder in the first degree.

What she needs is mitigation. I think the premeditation kind of cancels out "snapped."

Yeah. She had a 1,000 miles to think about what she was going to do

 

[ElleElle]

She doesn't need a defense. She's already been found guilty of premeditated, especially cruel murder in the first degree.

What she needs is mitigation. I think the premeditation kind of cancels out "snapped."

You are misunderstanding me.

I was wondering why originally she did not go with "mentally ill/snapped" defense.

From my perspective, she is toast. DV has not been proven at all. If anything, it makes her look even worse from all the lies coming from her witnesses.

 

[MeeBee]

I suspect that at the time of that Chronis hearing, JM was using Flores & his notes/reports (and the autopsy report). Flores talked to Horn (JM didn't) and thought it was gunshot first so he misinterpreted something Horn may have said and testified to that at the hearing - just as he said during the trial, IMO. As busy as both prosecutors and ME's are, and with the heavy caseloads both have, I doubt JM & Horn talked directly for a long time. Prosecutors don't investigate cases, the PD does and prosecutors work off of their notes/records, giving the detective a call if there is a question, etc. (They do have investigators in the DA's office, but they generally don't do this kind of casework either) IRL, many times prosecutors don't meet with a witness- especially a known expert that is used to testifying - until just before their court appearance unless they have a question or notice a problem. When my husband was a detective, he'd often go over the case with the prosecutor in the hallway before the trial - no, not on capital cases (they meet on those) but that's how it worked on some pretty serious charges/crimes. So I don't think they changed their opinion as much as discovered Flores' error once JM and Horn got together, whenever that happened. As for the typo, IIRC, the ME's office was seriously understaffed during the time of that autopsy. Missing that "not" was probably pretty easy to miss, and I thought Horn looked seriously puzzled when that came up in trial.

We know where the bullet entered the skull and where it crashed through the cranial plate (leaving a large hole) before entering the facial area - they showed that picture in court. There is no way that trajectory between the skull & the hole in the cranial plate missed or even 'skimmed' the brain. Horn also said that hitting that bone/plate may have changed the original trajectory so it's not necessarily a straight path from the entry point to where the bullet lodged. He testified there was very little bleeding, not even in the sinus area. Cases where people were able to move & survive these shootings generally involve a path straight from front to back, high up in the skull - not one where it crosses from side to side, and perforates the cranial plate like this one did. He would have been unconscious and probably wouldn't have survived it for long. :moo:

Thank you lin. But this is a bit of a technicality. What I mean by Juan asked Horn is that the information was sought by Juan/the state and this was the first time the ME was asked for his opinion, during the hearing to drop the death penalty for the reason that the shot was first. I didn't imagine Juan picking up the phone and all hey, buddy, let me ask you something. It doesn't matter who actually asked him. The point was Juan had the gun first as a theory until he actually asked Horn, either directly or not, about his opinion. I use Juan and the state a bit interchangeably.


It wasn't that Flores had discovered an error, iirc. He had said that Horn told him the shot was first when he spoke with him. I don't think the ME told him any such thing at that time because, again, that wasn't part of doing an autopsy. It's not usually his job to determine order of wounds. He also testified to this. What Flores means when he says he misunderstood is he misunderstood what the ME had told him and IMO was working from his own theory that the shot was last and filled in the gaps himself. Horn, iirc, said he was not asked for his opinion on the matter until later and would not have offered it at thebtime he spoke to Flores, even though he has no recollection of it.

And yes, I alredy wrote that Horn made an honest error and was surprised that his report would say that when it would have been possible for the dura mater to be intact.

 

[Night-owl]

re bold - actually you do now-a-days... I got laid off in 2008, and applying for other jobs and had to have S.S. card with me when I got a job... at least in California!

Different states may have different requirements. Having just started a job in 2014, I needed to show ID. There were several types (or combinations) that would be acceptable. A SS card can be used, but not on its own. I used my passport for ID. I think they need a photo ID along with a non-photo ID like a birth certificate or a SS card. I also think the info is run thru a federal database as well.

 

[katydid23]

Watching Behind the Headlines - Jodi Arias right now.

Dr. Lawrence Koblinsky, a medical examiner, stated Travis was stabbed multiple times, his throat was slit from one end to the other and he was shot in the head. All of these 3 traumas are fatal blows. This is what he calls overkill. A crime of extreme rage.

I watched this last night. Like a stroll through bittersweet Memory Lane. I did like seeing Juan busting her when she was fake crying on the stand though. " Were you crying when you slit his throat?"

:juanettes:

 

[GigiG]

Also... JA just couldn't help herself. I think her superiority complex got the best of her.

Also, many murderers (if not most?) are psychopaths/sociopaths...