Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - Day 19 - Shortest Court Day, EVER

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  • #581
My first thought was this line of evidence, argument, whatever, about the computer, was entirely improper at the sentencing phase, as that matter had been part of the guilt phase which had been finally adjudicated. I am admittedly no criminal procedure expert so not sure that is correct. But my premise was that the evidence presented at the guilt phase has to be accepted as that phase has had a final judgment. Challenging any aspect of the guilt phase is simply something to be pursued on appeal. So, I also felt that any issues about, essentially, the credibility of the computer evidence would be an issue for appeal. At the guilt phase both sides even agreed regarding the computer contents (not that it really matters for this purpose). And then the DT argued prosecutorial misconduct, which, to me, would normally still be an appeal issue as that is a common argument for overturning a conviction.

The argument about whether 🤬🤬🤬🤬 was on the computer in any form has always seemed somewhat tenuous to me, but, sure, mitigation is broad and apparently basically anything can be presented. So, I am assuming the argument is that, if somehow the state deleted, hid etc the computer evidence of, what, just 🤬🤬🤬🤬, or child 🤬🤬🤬🤬 (are either mitigating here or just child-arguably, anything could be deleted by the state but not anything deleted would be actionable and deserving of any kind of hearing.

So, is the DT only arguing that if the state deleted child 🤬🤬🤬🤬 THAT would be mitigating? I still don't feel I have a firm grasp on their precise argument. In other words, what if there was "prosecutorial misconduct", (NOT that there was) as argued by the DT (someone from the state somehow deleted something), but what if what was deleted was just some, "regular, normal" 🤬🤬🤬🤬? One, is that even "misconduct" if the material is not Brady? Or, if the DT argued it was Brady as to guilt, perhaps using the argument that the defendants credibility was impacted by the elimination of the 🤬🤬🤬🤬 she knew he viewed or something. To me, that is also just an appeal issue that can't be in any way viewed as "mitigating" otherwise any defendant could attack the guilt phase proceedings during sentencing and argue, for example, various rulings by the Judge were wrong, certain evidence should have or should not have been admitted, etc. There would seem to be a distinction and a difference between "exculpatory" and "mitigating". But maybe I'm wrong.

To me, the only possible mitigating evidence here is child 🤬🤬🤬🤬 (and, honestly, I don't really agree it is "mitigating" in the way I assume the legislature intended-but that's a different argument) and, to me, it can only be introduced if, in fact, it is also proven that there was prosecutorial misconduct. If there was no misconduct, but there was child 🤬🤬🤬🤬, that was just not found for some reason, that would just be something for appeal and it should not be allowed to be introduced.

I guess I am just trying to see what the "game" and the "end game" here are. Just what does the DT need to prove? And, just how far into the weeds does JSS have to let the DT go to try and prove both misconduct and the existence of something exculpatory? Or what if it isn't exculpatory, but just arguably "mitigating"? Is that also the same prosecutorial misconduct? I have often wondered why JM has not argued that this whole line of inquiry is improper. I assume it's because it isn't, at least on some level. But what is that exact level?

Is this like the typical Brady material case where it has to be shown that the state failed to turn over something that was relevant and exculpatory? Is "mitigating" treated the same as "exculpatory"? Does the state have an affirmative obligation to turn over "mitigating" evidence? Because this portion of the trial is only about mitigation.

Maybe I am just missng something. But I just keep thinking that this (but not ONLY this) part of the trial makes little sense in a procedural sense and that we are essentially arguing about issues properly argued on appeal.

It's late here on the east coast so not sure that even made any sense. But hopefully you perhaps caught my drift in some way. Love to hear your thoughts as I am sorely perplexed by this particular sideshow.

There are 2 "points" to the 🤬🤬🤬🤬 sideshow.

Point 1. Prosecutorial Misconduct: If the prosecution/police actually intentionally destroyed child 🤬🤬🤬🤬 on TA's computer, which would arguably have been "exculpatory" because it would support JA's silly chaotically-drifting-paper-child-🤬🤬🤬🤬 story, which tangentially at least fit in to her self-defense story, that might be a Brady violation justifying removal of the DP or even reversal of the verdict. Except for the fact that the prosecution really couldn't have known she was going to accuse TA of being a pedophile until after the alleged deletions took place. I think. Based on tweets. :gaah: Anyhooo....

Point 2. Mitigation: The child 🤬🤬🤬🤬 (NOT regular 🤬🤬🤬🤬 IMO) is just barely relevant to the mitigation phase, because JA's primary mitigation theory is that she was so super stressed out by being involved in a secret relationship with an abusive pedophile that her already screwed-up brain didn't understand that killing him was not the answer. And yes, the State has an obligation to turn over mitigating evidence.
 
  • #582
Respectfully BBM:

There is a HUGE difference. Our lives aren't on hold. We aren't losing income. These jurors are not invested in this trial, and I doubt that all of these jurors are wealthy and able to coast along for months and months. I would be trying to get out of this as hard as I could, and it wouldn't have anything to do with Travis, or Jodi… it would be because I have bills to pay and a life to try to live. I feel so sorry for these jurors.

3 "extra" jurors are not that many, especially considering we lost two the first week. If there were ten extra jurors I doubt that would be enough to see this through. I am so disappointed in the judge in this case. She is obviously out of her league here. She did not have the experience to be involved with a case of this magnitude. Floundering and struggling and its just getting worse. JMO of course… and worth nothing to anyone but me.

If I remember correctly, jurors can petition the court and the court has the ability to pay the jurors their normal salary for lengthy trials. I will try to find the link. I believe it was up to $300 per day. Am I misremembering?

(I still don't think these delays are fair to the jurors. They were told Dec 18, wonder if they knew it could be December 18, 2015)
 
  • #583
  • #584
Beth has posted Nurmis' Supreme court filings. Some good stuff in them...Alyce reappears!


I am so pissed. I have paid twice and when I go to see these under trial info all I get is a link to some free court report ad...
 
  • #585
Popping in I missed the last two days of Court before the break because the holidays were crazy hectic but looks like I didn't miss much and looks like I sure as hell didn't miss much today.

I'm floored at the way this trial is going. It's such a bloody hot mess. The defense is playing some ridiculous games. I have a feeling this will never get a verdict surely these jurors are going to get tired of still serving on this trial when March starts rolling around. JSS has allowed all hell to break loose and is conducting trial like we aren't even living in America. She runs her secret courtroom like the first amendment is just a suggestion.
 
  • #586
I am so pissed. I have paid twice and when I go to see these under trial info all I get is a link to some free court report ad...

Yes or No is going to post them as soon as theyare posted by court chatter. And it will be free. She will post it on the sidebar thread.
 
  • #587
Lamb chop, I am up late. Couldn't sleep (but not due to the trial). Anyway, just popping in. I vote for "Pseudo Trial...Day 20"

Could it get any weirder?
 
  • #588
AZlawyer, it is so refreshing to read all your posts. We all went nuts today. Thanks for your expertise! :)
wish you could contact some buddies in the judicial system there and tell them to send JSS on a vacation and get a firm Judge to hear this sentencing phase.
 
  • #589
Lamb chop, I am up late. Couldn't sleep (but not due to the trial). Anyway, just popping in. I vote for "Pseudo Trial...Day 20"

Could it get any weirder?

It's seriously like the twilight zone ....
 
  • #590
Popping in I missed the last two days of Court before the break because the holidays were crazy hectic but looks like I didn't miss much and looks like I sure as hell didn't miss much today.

I'm floored at the way this trial is going. It's such a bloody hot mess. The defense is playing some ridiculous games. I have a feeling this will never get a verdict surely these jurors are going to get tired of still serving on this trial when March starts rolling around. JSS has allowed all hell to break loose and is conducting trial like we aren't even living in America. She runs her secret courtroom like the first amendment is just a suggestion.

What first amendment? I think she skipped classes in law school. Maybe she isn't aware we even have a Constitution.
 
  • #591
It's seriously like the twilight zone ....

Yes! I was seriously humming the music to the theme song of Twilight Zone. Where is Rod Serling when you need him?
 
  • #592
Court chatter has the ASC filing
 
  • #593
Not sure what is happening tomorrow. Do I make a new thread, or not? If I do, what should I call it? :findinglink:

Just catching up.

My suggestion for the new thread name: Secrets and Lies.

Thanks Lambella for all you do for WS--you're the best!
 
  • #594
Yes! I was seriously humming the music to the theme song of Twilight Zone. Where is Rod Serling when you need him?

There was a Twilight Zone Marathon on Directv over the holidays. It was great and I taped about 20 episodes on DVR. It sounds like they are going to come to good use if days like today keep up.

Thanks everyone for all the updates. Catching up and getting flabbergasted again at this trial or lack thereof. :)
 
  • #595
Hmm, although I'm well aware that much of her journals are works of fiction, on p.2 May 18, 2008, of her last one, right after saying her Helio phone had been stolen(the one that the sex tapes were retrieved from) and how inconvenient that was.... she does say:

"I notified a few people, namely Ryan, Steve, and Sam via email/myspace."

So either he does exist, though perhaps not in the capacity that she presented him to TA, or the doctoring of her journals was even deeper than I suspect. :/

Yes I'm replying to my own post... a thought just occurred to me, wasn't the big sex tape from May 26, 2008, or was that just the argument that preceded it? Did they pull tapes from both phones and if so, why do I recall only one down and dirty conversation... ugh, have to go recheck all this again. :(
 
  • #596
So if Sue D. Nimh is allowed to remain nameless, will the PT simply “accept” this person’s credentials without eliciting experience, background, etc. on the record during the hearing?

IDK, but it seems if this person’s qualifications are discussed at length, some smart folks on this forum will be able to figure out who it is.

Plus, I’m still mystified why an expert who has “bombshell” information in a highly publicized case would want his/her identity hidden. Flies in the face of marketing oneself. Flies in the face of proudly, with conviction, presenting compelling evidence.

I can think of two primary reasons: 1) This person is someone BN knows through BN’s work with DOD/government contracts and, because of that association (due to government agreements?), Sue D. Nimh needs to fly under the radar; 2) This person knows JM will rip him/her a new “rear end” due to faulty (or unreplicable) procedures.

Anyone up to suggesting other reasons Sue D. Nimh wants to remain “black ops?”

I was thinking more along the line of it's someone who has a personal connection, friend, ex-lover, relative... maybe an associate of the last foreman or that person(GB) that is all over the web defending and supporting JA. He's made quite the page with links/suppositions/scenarios etc., even iirc mention of that whole religious punishment thing that has surfaced from time to time.:/
 
  • #597
New thread could be :

Sidebar, Recess, Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

Date doesn't really seem to matter...
 
  • #598
Hmm, although I'm well aware that much of her journals are works of fiction, on p.2 May 18, 2008, of her last one, right after saying her Helio phone had been stolen(the one that the sex tapes were retrieved from) and how inconvenient that was.... she does say:

"I notified a few people, namely Ryan, Steve, and Sam via email/myspace."

So either he does exist, though perhaps not in the capacity that she presented him to TA, or the doctoring of her journals was even deeper than I suspect. :/

I think the people in her 'journal life' are much like Casey Anthonys fantasy friends. They are loosely based upon 'real people'----but what she says about them and the events she describes are all n her pointy head.
 
  • #599
I think the people in her 'journal life' are much like Casey Anthonys fantasy friends. They are loosely based upon 'real people'----but what she says about them and the events she describes are all n her pointy head.

Iirc, all three of these men were from the LDS hookup site she had talked about... anyone know if such a thing existed and if so whether anyone ever verified any of this?
 
  • #600
So, I just finished the State's motion to preclude Mr. Pseudo's testimony. It was mentioned that there was a 7000 page report that these computer geniuses prepared??!! This is getting more and more absurd.

It is absurd. But I think AZL nailed it when she said that probably 6,879 pages are computer data printouts. LOL
 
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