Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered #2

[MsFacetious]

12.20PM: Weather conditions are hampering the search for the wreckage, reports Lam Shushan from onboard the RSS Persistence. While conditions have improved, they are expected to worsen later on Friday.

1.18PM: Malaysia navy vessel KD Pahang "remains committed" in the search, despite heavy seas and strong wind exceeding 40 knots in the area, says Malaysia Chief of Navy Abdul Aziz Jaafar.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...:+NamNguyen-GooglePublicPosts+(Google++Posts)

THey are really like having a first aid kit in the trunk! Make one feel better, but in the big picture actually menaingless. Anything serious needs more than a band aid in the kit, and less stuff is not life threatening if a band aid is not put on the wound quickly!

They really have, in the jet age, saved few. In the prop gerneration their role was much more signifigant, becasue of the flight charactertics of props compared to jets as it relates to making a successful ditching in water. Props traveled slower and stall charactertics much different so there was a much greater liklihood , in a prop, of ditching somewhat successfullly!

Only three accidents were listed in this article wherein vests had some role:

Limiting the scope to wide-bodied passenger jets makes this question much easier to answer. There have probably been cases of helicopter, light aircraft and freighter crashes where life jackets have played a role, but they are hard to count.

Passenger jets do not typically make sucessful water landings. The typical result is either that everyone dies, or the aircraft comes to rest in very shallow water where life jackets are not relevant.
The bottom line is that a scenario where life jackets are helpful is certainly plausible, and has occurred a few times. It is likely, but cannot be said for certain, that a few people (maybe up to a dozen or so) have survived crashes who wouldn't have survived without the life jackets.

http://www.quora.com/How-many-lives...s-due-to-the-presence-of-life-vests-in-planes

There have probably been more that died because they inflated their life jackets in the plane. :twocents:

 

[newone]

''The absence of any usual crash transmission data indicates that the ill-fated aircraft could have touched-down safely, experts say, as the hunt for the black box is still on. "The emergency locator transmitter (ELT) would work on impact be that land, sea or the sides of a mountain, and my analysis is it didn't work because there was no major impact during landing," Dudi Sudibyo, a senior editor of aviation magazine Angkasa told New York Post."

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/airasia-qz...ely-landed-plane-java-sea-theory-gains-619011

It is possible that the aircraft did land on the water safely but sank according to this article. That would result in no ELT transmission

Much more information at that link including the bodies found showed no trauma indicating that no explosion etc.
There is indication that there was evidence of body in lifejacket.

 

[SouthAussie]

No divers now, maybe no hydrophones either .......


PANGKALAN BUN, Indonesia, Jan 2 (Reuters) - Strong wind and heavy seas have stopped divers from looking for the fuselage of the Airbus A320-200 .....

Aboard one vessel were experts from France's BEA accident investigation agency, which attends the crashes of all Airbus planes, although officials were unsure if the weather would allow the sensitive hydrophones to be deployed.

"The waves could reach five metres this afternoon. Higher than yesterday," said air force Puma helicopter pilot Flight Captain Tatag Onne, in Pangkalan Bun, who has been flying missions to recover bodies and debris from the sea.

"We look for breaks in the clouds where conditions improve so that we can approach. Yesterday, when we went to collect a body from the sea we couldn't because the body was being rolled by waves. Sometimes we could see it, sometimes we couldn't."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/02/indonesia-airplane-idUSL5N0RG4BT20150102

 

[SouthAussie]

On a brighter note.....


"With the increasing amount of evidence and data, it's very likely we're getting closer to the fuselage of the AirAsia aircraft, based on what has been detected by sea vessels," Supriadi, operations director of the Indonesian search and rescue agency, told reporters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/02/indonesia-airplane-idUSL5N0RG4BT20150102

 

[newone]

No divers now, maybe no hydrophones either .......


PANGKALAN BUN, Indonesia, Jan 2 (Reuters) - Strong wind and heavy seas have stopped divers from looking for the fuselage of the Airbus A320-200 .....

Aboard one vessel were experts from France's BEA accident investigation agency, which attends the crashes of all Airbus planes, although officials were unsure if the weather would allow the sensitive hydrophones to be deployed.

"The waves could reach five metres this afternoon. Higher than yesterday," said air force Puma helicopter pilot Flight Captain Tatag Onne, in Pangkalan Bun, who has been flying missions to recover bodies and debris from the sea.

"We look for breaks in the clouds where conditions improve so that we can approach. Yesterday, when we went to collect a body from the sea we couldn't because the body was being rolled by waves. Sometimes we could see it, sometimes we couldn't."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/02/indonesia-airplane-idUSL5N0RG4BT20150102

from your link there is some 'optimistic news' :

'"Even in bad weather, however, the search for the AirAsia plane is less technically challenging than the two-year search for an Air France jet that crashed into deep Atlantic waters in 2009, or the fruitless hunt for Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 that disappeared last year. [ID:nL6N0N100S]

Given Flight QZ8501 crashed in shallow seas, experts say finding the boxes should not be difficult if its locator beacons, with a range of 2,000 to 3,000 meters (6,560 to 9,800 ft) and a battery life of around 30 days, are working."

 

[SouthAussie]

''The absence of any usual crash transmission data indicates that the ill-fated aircraft could have touched-down safely, experts say, as the hunt for the black box is still on. "The emergency locator transmitter (ELT) would work on impact be that land, sea or the sides of a mountain, and my analysis is it didn't work because there was no major impact during landing," Dudi Sudibyo, a senior editor of aviation magazine Angkasa told New York Post."

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/airasia-qz...ely-landed-plane-java-sea-theory-gains-619011

It is possible that the aircraft did land on the water safely but sank according to this article. That would result in no ELT transmission

Much more information at that link including the bodies found showed no trauma indicating that no explosion etc.
There is indication that there was evidence of body in lifejacket.

Other people agree that the plane may have been in one piece when it crashed ....



Aviation expert Geoffrey Thomas in Australia said there's a chance the plane hit the water largely intact, and that many passengers remain inside it.

He added that bodies recovered so far would have come out with a breach in the fuselage. "But most passengers still should have had their seat belts on, particularly as the plane was going into weather. The captain would have still had the seat belt sign on."

Relatives have given blood for DNA tests and submitted photos of their loved ones, along with identifying information such as tattoos or birthmarks that could help make the process easier.

A drizzle and light clouds covered the area Friday morning, but rain, strong winds and high waves up to 4 meters (13 feet) were forecast until Sunday. Strong sea currents have also kept debris moving.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/weather-lets-briefly-airasia-search-resume-27942965

 

[newone]

They only have 3 hours left of daylight (sunset 6:11 local time). I know they indicated oilers/tankers were available so that search vessels didn't have to return to port. Hopefully, the larger vessels will remain on scene and that puny little car ferry vessel gaah will go home but let the divers remain with the more seaworthy vessels so that they can get an early start tomorrow!

 

[MsFacetious]

I really don't want to find out that this plane ditched successfully but they all died anyway.
I'm sorry but I would much prefer instant death at impact for these passengers.

It does make sense if the tail came off at impact that some passengers would be in the water.
It would also make sense that the plane would sink faster since the tail would be off.

However it would be a devastating outcome to find out they all drowned after a successful ditching.
However, I think that very well may be what we are headed towards. :tears:

 

[SouthAussie]

When I see pics like this, I understand why the search keeps stopping.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...:+NamNguyen-GooglePublicPosts+(Google++Posts)

 

[newone]

That pic of the harsh conditions is sobering for sure. I am always amazed, however, at the abilities of various coast guards worldwide to pluck survivors from the sea under very harsh conditions. I realize this is a ''recovery'' effort and they have a huge task ahead of them. Hopeful all the recovery crews stay safe.

 

[Peliman]

I fear the same and haven't addressed it. I've sat here night after night wondering if anyone can survive a 37,000 ft plunge into the sea. The questions become complex like, how long can one tread water?

I really don't want to find out that this plane ditched successfully but they all died anyway.
I'm sorry but I would much prefer instant death at impact for these passengers.

It does make sense if the tail came off at impact that some passengers would be in the water.
It would also make sense that the plane would sink faster since the tail would be off.

However it would be a devastating outcome to find out they all drowned after a successful ditching.
However, I think that very well may be what we are headed towards. :tears:

 

[SouthAussie]

They say that if the plane had depressurised the people would have quickly fallen unconscious due to lack of oxygen during the rapid descent. I guess the question is, did the plane depressurise? I certainly hope so. I guess they will be able to tell, if the oxygen masks deployed.

 

[emirates1957]

''The absence of any usual crash transmission data indicates that the ill-fated aircraft could have touched-down safely, experts say, as the hunt for the black box is still on. "The emergency locator transmitter (ELT) would work on impact be that land, sea or the sides of a mountain, and my analysis is it didn't work because there was no major impact during landing," Dudi Sudibyo, a senior editor of aviation magazine Angkasa told New York Post."

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/airasia-qz...ely-landed-plane-java-sea-theory-gains-619011

It is possible that the aircraft did land on the water safely but sank according to this article. That would result in no ELT transmission

Much more information at that link including the bodies found showed no trauma indicating that no explosion etc.
There is indication that there was evidence of body in lifejacket.

The ELT can be activated by a switch on itself, in the Flight Deck or by 5-7 g force. For this ELT not to be activated by one of the three methods, to suggest that there was no major impact is simply ridiculous (according to ibtimes). Okay the A/C could have landed on water which would give weight to the slide being deployed manually, which would suggest that crew or passengers were still alive to do so.

 

[SouthAussie]

Singapore has its AUV in place on board the RSS Persistence, with the AUV crew waiting in Pangkalan Bun for conditions to improve. Singapore has a good amount of sophisticated equipment in place for the search.

Plus Russia has flown personnel, sonars, diving equipment and drones to Indonesia to assist.

22 people found so far.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...:+NamNguyen-GooglePublicPosts+(Google++Posts)

 

[restarea]

Search crews have now recovered 30 bodies from the AirAsia crash, and an Indonesian navy official said that five of them were found still strapped in their seats.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/air-asia-bodies-recovered-some-still-belted-into-seats-643212

 

[newone]

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/air-asia-bodies-recovered-some-still-belted-into-seats-643212

thanks for this -- I nearly fell from my perch when I found this NYT article that also indicates this information

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/01/02/world/asia/ap-as-indonesia-plane.html?_r=0

"Of the 30 corpses recovered so far, 21 were found on Friday, many of them by a U.S. Navy ship, according to officials.'' and

"Col. Yayan Sofiyan, commander of the warship Bung Tomo, told MetroTV his vessel managed to pull seven bodies from the choppy waters on Friday, five still fastened in their seats.

Soelistyo, (Indonesian air safety investigator) who was only able to confirm two victims in their seats, said a total of 30 bodies have been recovered.''

 

[skibaboo]

Thirty AirAsia Crash Victims' Bodies Recovered

The bodies of 30 AirAsia crash victims have now been recovered from the sea as rescuers continue to scour the seabed for wreckage.

Some of the bodies were discovered still strapped into their aircraft seats, according to officials involved in the search.

Among the victims recovered were two children, according to reports. So far only four have been identified and their bodies returned to their families.


Here too. Sky News

If this is true this indicates the plane is not in one piece. MOO

 

[Dr. Know?]

AirAsia Flight QZ8501: Search teams find bodies in seats, spot object suspected to be tail -

See more at: http://www.straitstimes.com/news/as...found-search-bad-weather#sthash.lDuF4r3h.dpuf

 

[Dr. Know?]

AirAsia flight QZ8501: Plane returns in pieces as agony for families continues

THESE are photos that show the tragic remains of AirAsia flight QZ8501 being returned to Indonesia as the world watches on.



http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...rns-in-pieces-as-agony-for-families-continues

 

[Dr. Know?]

Here's an article translated using google translate. It reads to me that AirAsia Indonesia's Surabaya-Singapore route has been suspended pending QZ 8501's investigation?


AirAsia These permits Surabaya-Singapore Suspended

Surabaya-Singapore route operated Sunday, violate the license agreement.

Headline - Ministry of Transportation suspend permission AirAsia Indonesia, Surabaya-Singapore route. This license suspension applies to the evaluation and investigation of aircraft accidents Indonesia AirAsia QZ 8501 is completed.

"Freezing While this is stated in the letter of the Director General of Civil Aviation No. AU. 008/1/1 / DRJU-DAU-2015 dated January 2, 2015," said Head of Public Communication, Ministry of Transportation, JA Barata, in a statement on Friday, January 2nd 2015.

Barata said that the background to the license suspension while it is the airline violated the consent given route.

In the letter DGCA No. AU.008 / 30/6 / DRJU.DAU-2014 dated October 24, 2014, concerning Foreign Flight Permit Winter 2014/2015 period, that the Surabaya-Singapore route PP is given to the airline in accordance with the flight schedule on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.

However, the flight carried out permission granted, among others, Sundays and Indonesia AirAsia parties do not apply the operation to the Directorate General of Civil Aviation Ministry of Transportation. "It is a violation of the agreement that has been given," he said.

Barata said the company AirAsia Indonesia divert passengers who have flight tickets Surabaya-Singapore route to other airlines.

"Furthermore, with this freezing, handling of passengers who already have tickets PT Indonesia Air Asia flight route Surabaya-Singapore PP to be redirected to another flight in accordance with provisions in force," he said.

http://bisnis.news.viva.co.id/news/...gan-airasia-rute-surabaya-singapura-dibekukan