Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered #2

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  • #621
There is also talk of the crew not retrieving up to date weather. When a crew signs on the flight plan will be already waiting for them along with the weather....this is why they carried an extra 40% of fuel. It sounds like media have made it sound like the crew were negligent with the weather. A dispatcher would have had this information for them therefore they were not required to do so.

RSBM: Thanks for this. I don't think that the pilot, with all of his experience, would just fly off with inadequate weather reporting either. As AirAsia said, the info is readily available on the official and other websites.

Just get to that plane .. and get those people (and the black boxes) out!!! Then we can start figuring out what happened and what info the pilot may or may not have had that would have been helpful.

:gaah:
 
  • #622
I agree I find it hard to believe that this particular pilot was so negligent as to not get weather.
I think he just didn't get the weather the way they wanted him to. :twocents:
 
  • #623
OT: We also have spray paint handy when there are severe tornado warnings to paint hooves, rump, neck, as well as placards that are laced through the manes with identifying info, here in the US. Your Australian horse community is internationally renown. Thanks for sharing the info!
Thank you for sharing, I would never, ever had known that.
 
  • #624
Interesting article here by a CNN reporter who went out on the boat that delivered a pinger locator to a vessel in Sector 4 of the search area.

But the captain is nervous. Captain Ahmad tells me his boat is not large enough to be in waters this choppy.
"I feel a heavy moral burden," he says. "I have a responsibility to keep those on board safe, but it is so important to help find bodies and debris."

Ahmad says he's proud to be a part of this operation, but would not normally bring his boat out for so long in such conditions.

The swell of the sea pushes the ships together with a dull thud as boat-side buoys collide. A crudely taped cardboard box holding the precious acoustic cargo is hastily handed over before the waves push the boats apart again. It is deemed too dangerous for the expert accompanying the equipment to make the jump between ships.


http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/05/asia/air-asia-airliner-search-hancocks/
 
  • #625
RSBM: Thanks for this. I don't think that the pilot, with all of his experience, would just fly off with inadequate weather reporting either. As AirAsia said, the info is readily available on the official and other websites.

Just get to that plane .. and get those people (and the black boxes) out!!! Then we can start figuring out what happened and what info the pilot may or may not have had that would have been helpful.

:gaah:
Yeh I dont either, media silliness two pilots are just gonna hop aboard and away we go -- i too think they may have got it elsewhere but this wild cowboy image is imo nonsnese!
 
  • #626
Thank you for posting this. It looks like other planes were flying at higher elevations, and they made it safely. Do you think the 2 minute delay from ATC in telling the plane they couldn't ascend to 36K feet might have been the deadly factor? TIA. This thread is very interesting.

I dotn think so, the clouds were 50 -55 feet high, and on top of these cat 5 storms is even more dangeroues. IF it was not a supercell, level 5 and lets say it topped at 30 and they asked and got to 38 then it is actually gooin over it, sadly i think in this instance their fate was ceiled - like all aviation disaster, just one more link that added up for the entire event. I think they had icing and updaraft that started the whole chain events
 
  • #627
  • #628
  • #629
Are they attached to the seats? I thought they were attached to the overhead?
Is there any reason they would be on the seats other than deploying?
Would the oxygen masks have deployed if they lost engine power?
Does one engine control pressurization on the A320 like it does on other planes?
Just trying to figure out if this fits in with the water ditching theory...

It has been said a picture is worth a thousand words - anything being anywhere means nothing!

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  • #630
Air France on the ocean floor
images




landing-gear-a.jpg

images
AF447-wreckage-landing-gear.jpg


engine-b.jpg


article-2220524-1595BC2D000005DC-418_964x641.jpg
af_a332_f-gzcp_atlantic_090601_30.jpg
af_a332_f-gzcp_atlantic_090601_31.jpg
 
  • #631
Media gives image of jet engine icing - leaving one with a sense of a frozen jet engine. Ice impacts air flow into the engine - its not like it freezes, airflow is messed up and then it could flameout cause of disruption in air flow and the combustion inside the engine (hence called flameout!)

In general, only very intense storms affect engine behavior and aircraft will usually make a detour to avoid storms this strong anyway. The fear is primarily because of turbulence that produces a very uncomfortable ride rather than engine performance problems. Even in a strong storm, however, the main consequence a jet engine experiences is a reduction in the efficiency of the combustion process. This efficiency is a function of the fuel-air ratio that is changed by the presence of water vapor.

The forms of precipitation that are most difficult to deal with are large hail, ice, and freezing rain. Large hail is only found in very strong storms that are generally avoided because of the turbulence problems discussed earlier, and hail impacts can also damage the engine or the aircraft's skin. Freezing rain is troublesome when it forms ice on the engine inlet or the center of the engine spinner. As the ice builds up, chunks may break off and enter the engine causing damage to fan blades or disrupting the airflow and combustion process.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/propulsion/q0293.shtml

70 second testing a jet engine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jfXX7qppbc

more detail
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQWYhsYfMxE


around 14 sec in can idea of engine having a bad day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAhjSviYVr8

JMO, it is a great headline - they are making such a big deal about the certificate - its a paperwork deal they are acting like rule S5457-dfdf114 is related to the crash. Kind of silly imo
 
  • #632
  • #633
  • #634
OK! This is gonna be it! Tomm Jan 6 (or is that today!) were finding our damn plane!


08:00
WNW.gif

WNW​
2 / 3 mph 83 / 85°F78% 1011 mb 16% 0.0 In
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14:00
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ENE​
4 / 5 mph 93 / 107°F68% 1006 mb
13%

0.0 In
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[TD="class: leftcol"][/TD]
[TD="class: odd"]11:00[/TD]
[TD="class: odd"]
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N​
[/TD]
[TD="class: odd"] 2 / 3 mph[/TD]
[TD="class: odd"] 92 / 104°F[/TD]
[TD="class: odd"]66%[/TD]
[TD="class: odd"] 1009 mb[/TD]
[TD="class: odd"] 21% [/TD]
[TD="class: odd"]
0.0 In [/TD]
[TD="class: odd"]
Sunny.gif
[/TD]

[TD="class: leftcol"][/TD]

[TD="class: leftcol"][/TD]
[TD="class: odd"]17:00[/TD]
[TD="class: odd"]
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ESE​
[/TD]
[TD="class: odd"] 6 / 7 mph[/TD]
[TD="class: odd"] 89 / 100°F[/TD]
[TD="class: odd"]74%[/TD]
[TD="class: odd"] 1006 mb[/TD]
[TD="class: odd"]
12% [/TD]
[TD="class: odd"]
0.0 In [/TD]
[TD="class: odd"]
Sunny.gif
[/TD]
http://www.myweather2.com/Holiday-Destinations/Indonesia/Borneo.aspx
 
  • #635
  • #636
Popping in with a random questions, like I do...is there any system out there for aircraft that automatically alerts (Mayday) with a big change in altitude? It wouldn't have changed the outcome here, but it *might* have made locating the wreckage easier I would think.
 
  • #637
leaked official documents have given rise to allegations that AirAsia Indonesia violated procedures that lead to the disaster.

The first allegation came to light in a leaked document that was originally sent by the Meteorology, Climatology and Geophysics Agency (BMKG) to Transportation Minister Ignatius Jonan on Wednesday, revealing that the pilots of the flight had not received a required weather report from the agency.

“AirAsia took the [BMKG] weather report at 7 a.m.,” on Dec. 28, the day of the crash, BMKG head Andi E. Sakya said. The time was after the plane’s departure from Surabaya’s Juanda International Airport at 5:35 a.m.

An AirAsia flight operations officer (FOO) received the report only after the plane lost contact with Jakarta air traffic control at 6:17 a.m.


.......according to standard procedures, every time pilots chart flight plans, they must consider [BMKG] weather reports,” she said. “So how could the plane fly without a weather report from the agency?”

Hanna said one factor might be the early-morning departure.

.....the flight departed really early in the morning and the crew had to get ready at least 2.5 hours before that because it was an international flight. Did Juanda airport prepare the crew at 4 a.m.? That may be why the FOO didn’t take the weather report from the BMKG. Or it could be the BMKG did not have its officials [ready],” said Hanna.

Sunu said the BMKG’s station at Soekarno-Hatta International Airport sent reports via e-mail four times a day to the AirAsia Indonesia operations center.

“These reports are accepted by the operations control center at all AirAsia Indonesia hubs, which are Jakarta, Medan, Surabaya, Bandung and Denpasar, where they are printed out and kept by pilots,” he said.

The agency’s weather map shows that the Surabaya-Singapore route taken by the flight on that day was very cloudy........

Hanna said that AirAsia Indonesia might have obtained a license to fly outside its regular schedule, considering the high demand for year-end travel.

“There must have been a new license proposed by AirAsia to the ministry. We must check how it could obtain such a permit and what did it take to get it?” Hanna said.


“We know [someone] must have given the permit. We’re looking into the who and why,” he said, adding that those responsible for possible violations might be suspended.

Responding to the allegations, Transportation Minister Ignasius made an unannounced visit to the AirAsia Indonesia office in Cengkareng, Tangerang, on Friday.

Jonan reportedly expressed anger after learning some AirAsia Indonesia pilots had not been directly briefed by the FOO on weather conditions.

The minister was said to have been disappointed with a statement from AirAsia officials that said pilots could download information from the BMKG’s website.

Meanwhile in Surabaya, some family members of passengers on the AirAsia flight said they had not considered filing a lawsuit following the allegations.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...-s-alleged-missteps.html#sthash.hmZiiQSm.dpuf
 
  • #638
New article from CNN I thought I would post it. The divers are doing their best to help in very difficult circumstances. I hope they catch a break ASAP. As always thanks for all your updates they have been much appreciated.

"Divers searching in the depths of the Java Sea for wreckage from AirAsia Flight QZ8501 say big waves on the surface aren't the only difficulty they're facing. They also can't see in front of them down on the sea floor.

The diving teams who made their way to the bottom of the sea Sunday encountered muddy waters with zero visibility, according to officials.

The Indonesian Navy has sent special equipment to try to tackle the muddy conditions, Indonesian military chief Gen. Moeldoko said Monday.

U.S. Navy divers assisting in the search have already been using side-scan sonar gear, which is designed to map the sea floor and capture accurate images for analysis.

When they find submerged wreckage, divers could also face challenges like "jagged edges, torn fuselage, things hanging all over the place," said Geno Gargiulo, an experienced commercial diver in the United States."

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/05/world/asia/airasia-disaster/
 
  • #639
Popping in with a random questions, like I do...is there any system out there for aircraft that automatically alerts (Mayday) with a big change in altitude? It wouldn't have changed the outcome here, but it *might* have made locating the wreckage easier I would think.

In a nutshell no. ATC would be aware of the massive plunge. The communication would come from ATC asking "if situation normal". These guys would be falling at 3000ft a minute. You hate to even think about it.
 
  • #640
It is the first time I have seen a reason for Air Asia not being allowed to fly on Sundays (why they did not have a permit). And it still flew 4 days a week, it just switched Thursday to Sundays.


AirAsia Indonesia is licensed to fly from Surabaya to Singapore every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. But in October, the airline revised its schedule to fly on Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday, without the required permission from the ministry.

The change in the schedule is believed to have exacerbated the already overcrowded Surabaya-Singapore route, lessening the space for pilots to maneuver to avoid threatening storms.

Aviation analyst Arista Atmadjati said that during the peak season, such as in December, a lot of airlines requested additional flight slots to cater to increasing demand for travel, resulting in crowded air space.

Arista said that Indonesia met less than 60 percent of the requirements needed before its aviation safety level could be raised by the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).


http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/01/06/heads-roll-signs-foul-play.html#sthash.aI33dGJ9.dpuf
 
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