Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered #2

[SouthAussie]

Indonesia's Financial Service Authority assured family members of the victims that all the passengers would be entitled to insurance payments despite the controversy over the flight permit.

He said each passenger was entitled to at least 1.25 billion rupiah (about 100,000 dollars).

http://www.dpa-international.com/ne...-large-parts-of-airasia-plane-a-43728172.html

 

[CARIIS]

how come we have not heard the word the sateillite mentioned?


O/T Pretty shocking

The number of parking summonses issued fell by a whopping 90% from 16,008 the same time last year to just 1,191 last week as NYPD officers are apparently engaging in a work slowdown.

number of arrests citywide plummeted by 56% for the week ending Sunday, from 5,448 during the same time period a year ago to 2,401.

The number of people slapped with criminal summonses for offenses like drinking in public fell 92% for the same week, from 4,077 to just 347.


Just 749 motorists were hit with moving violations, compared with 9,349 a year ago — a 92% drop.

Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Liu, the two hero police officers who were executed by a cop-hating maniac, a grand total of just two tickets were written for moving violations.


Not a single parking or Criminal Court summons was issued.


Over in the 79th Precinct, the Brooklyn precinct in which Liu and Ramos were killed Dec. 20, just eight parking tickets and two moving violations were written.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/tickets-drop-92-week-apparent-nypd-slowdwon-article-1.2066763

 

[CARIIS]

In the early days of this investigation, there was a pilot who expressed surprise that ATC did not notice descent on radar and it ''should have been noticed'' if the plane was on it's way down.

Hopefully aviation folks can clarify this .....

I think the movies and tv give us an impression that they are like on the screen in an easy contact visual look. THere real job is serperation not monitoring every flight throughout. I am sure they were short staffed, time of flight, big weather issues, and an apparently busy corridor that day. This is what they are seeing:

It is somewhat interesting no ATC tapes or transcripts have emerged however ?

 

[CARIIS]

ATC transcript:

Wagon Air 8501 is Flight QZ8501’s call-sign.

Wagon Air eight five zero one clear to Singapore, mike six three five level two four zero initial, RAMPY one alpha departure squawk number seven zero zero five,” said an ATC worker, according to the transcript.



The conversation between Juanda ATC and the plane’s cockpit before that statement goes like this, according to Kompas:

AWQ8501: “Tower, Wagon Air eight five zero one good morning...”

Tower: “Wagon Air 8501 good mornig (sic) Juanda Tower, go ahead...”

AWQ8501: “Eight five zero one (registrasi) alpha x-ray charlie parking stand Alpha Niner (A9) destination Singapore POB (passenger on board) one six one, request push and start, wagon air eight five zero one..”

Tower: “Wagon Air eight five zero one parking stand number Alpha niner Pushback and start approved heading west runway one zero, exit sierra two..”



- See more at: http://www.themalaymailonline.com/m...-leaked-transcript-shows#sthash.9mL4mZbc.dpuf

 

[MzOpinion8d]

In the early days of this investigation, there was a pilot who expressed surprise that ATC did not notice descent on radar and it ''should have been noticed'' if the plane was on it's way down.

Hopefully aviation folks can clarify this .....

I wondered about this too, due to the reports that the plane simply disappeared off radar. That's one thing that made me ask if there was any kind of automatic Mayday alert with a sudden drop in altitude.

 

[Dr. Know?]

At this time of year, the Java Sea is a churning soup of sediment and debris

http://time.com/3655320/airasia-qz8501-missing-plane-java-sea/

 

[watcher9]

QZ8501 DAY 10

4.45pm: Indonesia's Transport Ministry now says that it has lifted the bar imposed on 16 flights from four airlines.
It says that from now onwards, all flights that are not according to scheduled routes will be barred immediately.
(Article says that barred flights were eight from Lion Air, five from AirAsia and one each from Wings Air, Trigana Air and Kalstar.)


3.45pm: The families of the deceased in the flight tragedy have refused the offer by the Indonesian army chief to be taken to site to conduct prayers and sow flowers at sea in memory of those who perished. They say they want the recovery of the bodies to be conducted as quickly as possible, says detik.com.


3.30pm: Meanwhile, a Japanese search vessel has found one body and it is in the midst of being retrieved. (That makes 38 found.)


12 noon: The Indonesian Search and Rescue Agency (Basarnas) says that there are fears that the bodies are now drifting to the Makassar Strait, which is between the islands of Borneo and Sulawesi.


10.15am: The Russian amphibian team says that they have made a number of findings in the sea last night and has today requested Indonesian army helicopters to the areas.

https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/285459

BBM
Are they referring to bodies or to objects from the plane?

 

[CARIIS]

I am feeling "mushy", and feel the need to thank you all. I stubmled across you guys with Luka, and for a long time only thought it was true crime which was awesome for me. Then we did Boston Marathon, Canada, all sorts of stories with you . And it is this like wierd thing, breaking news, you go to news and then after 10 minutes you realize I need to go to WS to find out what is happening.

That is good and bad! It is pathetic, that one cant get anews story, that is not filled with inaccuracies, from the media - it is , I am old, for my sisters kids , this is a very bad bad situation. It is so not ok that one cant turn on the news and Walter CRonkite is not us the truth.

However, it all is what it is, and we all collectivly do a pretty damn amazing job of getting the facts. Like I said feeling mushy, tearing, BUT, god thank god. THe bull that is out there , on any story, that is just so off, so wrong, stupid stuff, it was 3 it was 9 it was 12 fine when breaking - but when they report 3 and then we all know it IS 9 and for the rest of the story it remains wrong at 3 that is a huge issue!

I gotten timed out a couple of times when i started, but thro time I learned, that it really is awesome, to be able to do what we do without like attack- it is sharing stuff feellings , info facts, stuff.

and in the interium i had gone to a couple of other places , that were not moderated like this, its aweful you end up agitated, i can get a bunch of sh%t at a grocery store , i dont want to come on line, to learn and share, and up being attacked.


We are respectful, we share , we debate, we share confusion together, while all along, are just stunned at the fact that 25 years ago we all did this, over dinner, with friends, with no cell phones or texts

I thank you all , I learn much, my mother has has over more than one story we have done toegehter, is where do you get all this from ! Webslutehts mom websltueths mom!!

Its a really neat "entity" !

There done with my mushy post!

 

[CARIIS]

BBM
Are they referring to bodies or to objects from the plane?

I really do have to say, I am really confused that we are 10 days out and where we are - nowhere. Once MAL370 became what it was, that was it. BUt this , a aircraft crashed, I have been following aviation disasters since I was 13! I truly had no idea, that we would be so far in , with the weather. I expected the recorders within 7 days or so. But its nuts, you go online and it says great weather. And then the next link is, weather cancelled everything. THe time zone stuff really makes it worse! Very confusing.

But am truly starting to wonder, if we are ever gonna get the recorders - and boy , we need the recorders, so many questions, that would be easily answered , if they found, and not damaged. ( and we need to remain cognizant that if found, they could be damaged to the point wherein they do nothing to help us) It is becoming somewhat frustrating at this point -

 

[SouthAussie]

... teams scouring the ocean for the wreckage of the AirAsia jet found two new metal objects and two more bodies yesterday.

... which had recovered 39 bodies as of yesterday.

... a US Navy ship located two more metal objects using sonar signals, though it is not known yet if they are part of the missing plane. These would add to the five large objects, believed to have been part of the plane, detected so far... (Except, I think one of those five objects has been discovered to be a wreck of another kind, according to a report yesterday.)

http://www.todayonline.com/world/asia/indonesia-will-spare-no-effort-search-military-chief

 

[SouthAussie]

Im glad they decided not to go to the site. I was also paranoid about floating bodies ( along with wanting them to spend thier time searching instead). I was just searching for info on how long bodies can float for. It was kinda all over the place and dependant on many factors. The majority of what i read, did make it seem like the colder the water, the longer they usually float. Maybe sometimes up to weeks.

Just saw this report that contradicts what I had read before ... (about 5-8 days).

Officials say the search for victims will get more difficult as the days pass. Medical experts say that bodies sink within 10 to 14 days after entering the water.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/airasia...ing-out-to-recover-floating-bodies-1420537099

 

[SouthAussie]

Indonesia’s Financial Services Authority on Tuesday called on insurance companies to begin processing claims without waiting for official passenger death pronouncements or a cause for the plane crash. (They won't do that, will they??)

Firdaus Djaelani, an official with the financial-sector regulator, said AirAsia’s insurers, Asuransi Jasa Indonesia and Asuransi Sinar Mas, should pay out 1.25 billion rupiah ($98,830) for each of the 155 passengers, according to law. He said survivors of 25 passengers who had purchased flight insurance would be eligible to claim another 315 million rupiah to 750 million rupiah.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/airasia...ing-out-to-recover-floating-bodies-1420537099

 

[SouthAussie]

Muslim clerics pray before boarding an Indonesian military helicopter to pray over the area believed to be the crash site of the AirAsia flight QZ8501

Indonesian navy commander Yayan Sofyan, whose warship Bung Tomo was the first to find debris last week, described to AFP some of the everyday objects they had recovered.
“We found backpacks, suitcases, shoes, a chair for a baby,” he said, adding that the search teams were determined to overcome the monsoon season weather to find more bodies.

http://www.gulf-times.com/asean-phi...-teams-make-slow-progress-in-jet-crash-search

 

[emirates1957]

I am feeling "mushy", and feel the need to thank you all. I stubmled across you guys with Luka, and for a long time only thought it was true crime which was awesome for me. Then we did Boston Marathon, Canada, all sorts of stories with you . And it is this like wierd thing, breaking news, you go to news and then after 10 minutes you realize I need to go to WS to find out what is happening.

That is good and bad! It is pathetic, that one cant get anews story, that is not filled with inaccuracies, from the media - it is , I am old, for my sisters kids , this is a very bad bad situation. It is so not ok that one cant turn on the news and Walter CRonkite is not us the truth.

However, it all is what it is, and we all collectivly do a pretty damn amazing job of getting the facts. Like I said feeling mushy, tearing, BUT, god thank god. THe bull that is out there , on any story, that is just so off, so wrong, stupid stuff, it was 3 it was 9 it was 12 fine when breaking - but when they report 3 and then we all know it IS 9 and for the rest of the story it remains wrong at 3 that is a huge issue!

I gotten timed out a couple of times when i started, but thro time I learned, that it really is awesome, to be able to do what we do without like attack- it is sharing stuff feellings , info facts, stuff.

and in the interium i had gone to a couple of other places , that were not moderated like this, its aweful you end up agitated, i can get a bunch of sh%t at a grocery store , i dont want to come on line, to learn and share, and up being attacked.


We are respectful, we share , we debate, we share confusion together, while all along, are just stunned at the fact that 25 years ago we all did this, over dinner, with friends, with no cell phones or texts

I thank you all , I learn much, my mother has has over more than one story we have done toegehter, is where do you get all this from ! Webslutehts mom websltueths mom!!

Its a really neat "entity" !

There done with my mushy post!

That's funny you mentioned that. I was thinking the same thing on the way to work, everybody is on the same page. As soon as this accident occurred .... the first place I went to was WS because I knew there would be like minded folk out there that were in need of the truth. The media information you guys provide is simply amazing. I am watching the TOSTEE case at the moment and was directed towards mydeathspace (something like that)......whooa let's say you wouldn't want to bump into these people in a dark alley. WS folk are the sort of people you would have as a next door neighbour.

 

[Hatfield]

I am feeling "mushy", and feel the need to thank you all. I stubmled across you guys with Luka, and for a long time only thought it was true crime which was awesome for me. Then we did Boston Marathon, Canada, all sorts of stories with you . And it is this like wierd thing, breaking news, you go to news and then after 10 minutes you realize I need to go to WS to find out what is happening.

That is good and bad! It is pathetic, that one cant get anews story, that is not filled with inaccuracies, from the media - it is , I am old, for my sisters kids , this is a very bad bad situation. It is so not ok that one cant turn on the news and Walter CRonkite is not us the truth.

However, it all is what it is, and we all collectivly do a pretty damn amazing job of getting the facts. Like I said feeling mushy, tearing, BUT, god thank god. THe bull that is out there , on any story, that is just so off, so wrong, stupid stuff, it was 3 it was 9 it was 12 fine when breaking - but when they report 3 and then we all know it IS 9 and for the rest of the story it remains wrong at 3 that is a huge issue!

I gotten timed out a couple of times when i started, but thro time I learned, that it really is awesome, to be able to do what we do without like attack- it is sharing stuff feellings , info facts, stuff.

and in the interium i had gone to a couple of other places , that were not moderated like this, its aweful you end up agitated, i can get a bunch of sh%t at a grocery store , i dont want to come on line, to learn and share, and up being attacked.


We are respectful, we share , we debate, we share confusion together, while all along, are just stunned at the fact that 25 years ago we all did this, over dinner, with friends, with no cell phones or texts

I thank you all , I learn much, my mother has has over more than one story we have done toegehter, is where do you get all this from ! Webslutehts mom websltueths mom!!

Its a really neat "entity" !

There done with my mushy post!

Great post. Thank you.
Lots of us feel the same. It is wonderful we all are unique and different and we each bring something unique to the table.

I too am glad about the Mods here and I have learned to appreciate the value in a nicely moderated place. They do it for all the right reasons here. To protect us from ourselves.
Thanks Mods.

 

[Hatfield]

I wanted to clarify my previous post on previous page about the rescuers RUNNING with the stretcher with the bodies, which I find dangerous and goes against safety protocols. They could easily trip and fall as they are running about.

I blame whoever has directed the people to do the running and not the people who are actually carrying the bodies. I suspect it is part of some bizarre "image" thing that the authorities want to make them hustle with the bodies to the awaiting helicoptor OR to just avoid media OR something.

The point being is it is so needless and is dangerous to be scurrying about when carrying a body. They are already sadly dead so its not like you are rushing to save their life or anything.
I am forced to think that the authorities are very concerned about their image in the media and are directing their rescuers to do this. Which is very sad. Just do your job and do it well and then you dont have to worry about changing your image in the media.

 

[CARIIS]

The Indonesian government cracked down Monday in response to the AirAsia crash, ordering aviation officials to be suspended and saying airlines will be forced to comply with stricter predeparture regulations that require pilots to undergo direct weather briefings with dispatchers.

Staff at the ministry said many airlines already practice what will become mandatory rules, but that AirAsia wasn’t among them. The aviation head at the airport in Surabaya, Indonesia’s second-largest city, used incorrect information in granting AirAsia a takeoff slot for the flight, Mr. Murjatmodjo said.


Sounds silly to me - online is the most updated - looking for something to blame?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/airasia...ation-to-involve-indonesian-police-1420454599

Would be neat if someone here can translate this! Here is the actual weather report ;

Google Weather Report From Surabaya for Morning of Flight's Disappearance

[h=1]Many Bodies of AirAsia Passengers Won’t Be Autopsied, Officials Say
[/h] [h=2]http://www.wsj.com/articles/many-bodies-of-airasia-passengers-wont-be-autopsied-officials-say-1420307128[/h]
AirAsia’s management went into a crisis crouch Saturday after Indonesia’s Transport Ministry said the low-cost carrier had been flying without permission on the Surabaya-to-Singapore flight that crashed with 162 people on board.
The airline was silent for hours after news of the unauthorized flight struck, a major change of tack after chief executive Tony Fernandes had put himself quickly front and center, on television and Twitter, for days expressing condolences and taking responsibility for the accident. “Someone was probably blindsided by this,’’ said Tom Evrard, crisis communications expert at FTI Strategic Communications in Singapore “They have to gather all the facts.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/indonesiarealtime/2015/01/03/what-happened-to-the-openness-at-airasia/

 

[CARIIS]

I wanted to clarify my previous post on previous page about the rescuers RUNNING with the stretcher with the bodies, which I find dangerous and goes against safety protocols. They could easily trip and fall as they are running about.

I blame whoever has directed the people to do the running and not the people who are actually carrying the bodies. I suspect it is part of some bizarre "image" thing that the authorities want to make them hustle with the bodies to the awaiting helicoptor OR to just avoid media OR something.

The point being is it is so needless and is dangerous to be scurrying about when carrying a body. They are already sadly dead so its not like you are rushing to save their life or anything.
I am forced to think that the authorities are very concerned about their image in the media and are directing their rescuers to do this. Which is very sad. Just do your job and do it well and then you dont have to worry about changing your image in the media.

Ha that is fascinating Hat - I thought the same thing the first day bodies were found and ambulances were screaming all over the place , I thought how stupid - someone could get hurt! Like minds! Makes no sense- but it has been consistent, bizaire

 

[CARIIS]

Social media:

Between Dec. 28 and Jan. 4, social media platforms recorded four million conversations on the AirAsia crash, according to data tracker Awesometrics.com. The majority, 3.3 million, came from Twitter, with more than 8,000 AirAsia-related status updates on Facebook. Indonesia is among the biggest markets for both Facebook and Twitter, with tens of millions of users.

Since Dec. 28 the conversation on AirAsia reached its peak three times: when the plane was declared missing, when the SAR team found bodies and debris believed to from the plane’s wrekage, and when reports emerged that AirAsia was flew its Surabaya-Singapore route without a proper permit on the day of the crash, Awesometrics said.

http://blogs.wsj.com/indonesiarealt...irasia-search-has-played-out-on-social-media/

 

[CARIIS]

AirAsia stopped picking up paper copies of weather reports long ago, unlike some other airlines, say officials at the airport where Flight QZ8501 departed.AirAsia has said the pilot on Flight 8501 “self-briefed” regarding weather conditions, using weather reports downloaded from the weather agency.

Officials said AirAsia representatives only very rarely visit the office and do not regularly pick up paper reports – though if they download the report online they wouldn’t need to also receive a paper copy.
The weather service currently cannot track who has downloaded its reports


The information is also available online, however, and AirAsia told the Transportation Ministry last week that this was the way it accessed the weather reports.
Carriers like Garuda Indonesia GIAA.JK +4.10%, Lion Air, Sriwijaya Airlines, Trigana Air Service and the Indonesian Navy continue to pick up printed weather reports from the airport office of Indonesia’s meteorological bureau, the BKMG, in Surabaya, according to log books seen by The Wall Street Journal.


Major carriers in Indonesia, including Garuda Indonesia, Lion Air, Sriwijaya Airlines, and Citilink, also have mandatory direct briefings on weather conditions for pilots on all their flights, according to Indonesian Transportation Ministry expert staff Hadi Mustofa Djuraid.


This safety measure involves sending flight dispatchers into plane cockpits to finalize flight plans with pilots – including debating detours around severe weather systems. AirAsia does not follow this practice, Mr. Djuraid told The Wall Street Journal.

a forecaster at BMKG, said that on the day Flight 8501 departed Surabaya, the weather over the Karimata Strait along the route to Singapore was particularly ominous, with trade winds converging in the Java Sea to form a vicious cumulonimbus cloudbank.


The phenomenon, known as tropical convergence, was “stronger than normal” on the day of the crash, Ms. Fadianika said. Satellite images taken during the night showed a cumulonimbus structure that had formed the previous day was still generating temperatures lower than -100 degrees Celsius at its center, even without the aid of the sun which tends to make these clouds more intense, she said.

......suspensions, which coincide with investigations into the downing of the A320 jetliner that departed from Surabaya on Dec. 28, come as Mr. Jonan has battled criticism from pilots upset by reports that he scolded AirAsia officials during a visit to the company’s Indonesian office on Friday for not receiving weather briefings before takeoff.

http://blogs.wsj.com/indonesiarealt...-crash-probe-shines-light-on-weather-reports/