Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #11

[SouthAussie]

"EU also wants raw materials from Ukraine.​

There is an offer for Zelensky.​

View attachment 566327

The European Union offered Ukraine its own deal on 'critical materials'.

European Commissioner for Prosperity and Industrial Strategy
presented a proposal to Ukrainian officials on Monday in Kyiv
during a visit by the European Commission.

'The added value offered by Europe
is that
we will never demand an agreement
that is not beneficial to both parties'.

The EU wants to cooperate with Ukraine​

- 21 out of 30 critical materials needed by Europe can be supplied by Ukraine
as part of a mutually beneficial partnership."

UE też chce surowców z Ukrainy. Jest oferta dla Zełenskiego

Unia Europejska zaoferowała w poniedziałek Ukrainie własne porozumienie w sprawie "krytycznych materiałów" - donosi Politico. O wspólnym wydobyciu ukraińskich surowców mówi Donald Trump, który naciska...

www.money.pl

I thought the EU already had a contract with Ukraine, signed in 2021. Maybe this is a revised proposal.


Ukraine already has a deal to extract these resources with the European Union. A ‘strategic partnership on raw materials’ was signed between the EU and Ukraine in July 2021, months before Russia’s invasion on February 24, 2022.

Why US wants Ukraine’s minerals, 4 reasons it will have trouble getting them

Trump Wants Ukraine Mineral Resources: What are critical minerals, and how much of these does Ukraine possess? Why does the US want them? How much can one country be allowed to use another's natural resources? We explain.

indianexpress.com

 

[Simply Southern]

You said no-one had offered to help with the rebuilding. I gave you a few examples of those who are in fact doing that. And there are more, as well.

Grants are not loans. Please try to acknowledge that there are many who are helping. It is not (and never has been) all up to the US. And the assistance will continue long after the US has exited.

Nobody is saying that the US hasn't been of great assistance in the past.

imo

I have acknowledged many want to help and many more will help. I think we have to look into the details to see what's actually being offered and the terms. It's not to disrespect any offer or organization and we are all grateful for support. But support has to be quantified, in order to achieve financial planning for recovery.

Many are providing "support" but what does that truly mean? "The Facility" is designed for post war rebuilding. Ukraine needs to be able to access what cash options are immediately available, pre and post war. This money is available contingent on selling bonds and donations. Commitment for "in future" donations are important and will plan a part in long term commitments. I certainly didn't mean to disregard or disrespect the commitment.

When the war ends, Ukraine is going to need cash immediately, to continue to operate their government, repair the electrical infrastructure, communication system and more. The repair is crucial and immediately need to open the door for commerce-companies to mine product to provide a continued cash flow.

Once the war ends, hopefully Ukraine will have enough commitments of immediate cash to start immediate reconstruction. The goal, is to insure security and future solvency.

Yes, the US has been great in the past and will be great in restoring Ukraine.


Moo...

 

[Simply Southern]

I thought the EU already had a contract with Ukraine, signed in 2021. Maybe this is a revised proposal.


Ukraine already has a deal to extract these resources with the European Union. A ‘strategic partnership on raw materials’ was signed between the EU and Ukraine in July 2021, months before Russia’s invasion on February 24, 2022.

Why US wants Ukraine’s minerals, 4 reasons it will have trouble getting them

Trump Wants Ukraine Mineral Resources: What are critical minerals, and how much of these does Ukraine possess? Why does the US want them? How much can one country be allowed to use another's natural resources? We explain.

indianexpress.com

The "area" is located in current Russian occupied territory. I don't know how they will collect.

They also have several loans secured by frozen Russia assets. So far, no banks had agreed to release the funds. They remain in a frozen state .... whatever that means.

Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

NATO scrambles warplanes in Poland as Putin's bombers to pound Ukraine
NATO was forced to scramble its warplanes in Poland today as Vladimir Putin used strategic bombers and missiles to attack neighbouring Ukraine - even as Vladimir Putin insists he wants peace 'as soon as possible'.

Putin's air force deployed Tu-95MS nuclear-capable strategic bombers to pound targets across Ukraine, causing panic in Kyiv as residents rushed for the metro underground shelters.

Explosions were heard in Kyiv, Zhytomyr, and Sumy, as well as in several towns across the regions of Zaporizhzhia and Chernihiv. Drones were also used by Russia, with several people reportedly suffering injuries.

 

[Simply Southern]

Poland scrambles military aircraft as Russian missiles target western Ukraine

Poland scrambled "military aviation" in its airspace early Tuesday morning in response to Russian missile strikes in Ukraine, the country's Operational Command said.

abcnews.go.com

 

[TootsieFootsie]

MSN

Ursula von der Leyen arrives in Kyiv with €3.5 billion in fresh financial aid​

Ursula von der Leyen arrived in Kyiv by train on Monday morning to mark the third anniversary of the start of Russia's war against Ukraine and as Donald Trump's big push for negotiations rattles European allies, stoking fears a rushed deal could leave the entire continent vulnerable to the Kremlin's expansionism.

The president of the European Commission joined other Western leaders, such as Spain's Pedro Sánchez, Denmark's Mette Frederiksen, Lithuania's Gitanas Nausėda and Canada's Justin Trudeau, in a special summit hosted by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. One by one, they all spoke to reaffirm their solidarity with the country under invasion and made new pledges of financial and military support.

 

[SouthAussie]

I thought the EU already had a contract with Ukraine, signed in 2021. Maybe this is a revised proposal.


Ukraine already has a deal to extract these resources with the European Union. A ‘strategic partnership on raw materials’ was signed between the EU and Ukraine in July 2021, months before Russia’s invasion on February 24, 2022.

Why US wants Ukraine’s minerals, 4 reasons it will have trouble getting them

Trump Wants Ukraine Mineral Resources: What are critical minerals, and how much of these does Ukraine possess? Why does the US want them? How much can one country be allowed to use another's natural resources? We explain.

indianexpress.com

Just adding to my above post. There is apparently no new raw minerals proposal by the EU. Some mix up in communications. Maybe some reporters didn't realise that there was an existing agreement and thought it was new.


European Commission spokesperson Thomas Regnier denied on Feb. 25 that the EU had allegedly offered Ukraine its own deal on minerals.
"There is no proposal," Regnier said, adding that since 2021, the EU has had a partnership on critical raw materials with Ukraine, formalized through the Memorandum of Understanding.
According to Regnier, Sejourne "reaffirmed the EU's commitment to implement the Memorandum of Understanding," but did not present any new proposals.

European Commission denies EU has offered Ukraine its own proposal on minerals

The day prior, AFP reported that the EU has offered Ukraine its own deal on the country's natural resources, describing it as "mutually beneficial" and a "win-win partnership."

kyivindependent.com

 

[SouthAussie]

I have acknowledged many want to help and many more will help. I think we have to look into the details to see what's actually being offered and the terms. It's not to disrespect any offer or organization and we are all grateful for support. But support has to be quantified, in order to achieve financial planning for recovery.

Here is some quantification of what has been done already and what is yet to be done. The private sector and Ukraine government have already been working on restoration. In time, additional resources will become clear. imo


RDNA4 identifies and excludes over $13 billion (€12.6 billion) in needs across eight sectors that have already been met by Ukraine, with support from partners and the private sector.

For example, government data shows that at least $1.2 billion (€1.1 billion) was disbursed from state budget and donor funds last year for housing sector recovery, while over 2,000 km of emergency repairs were carried out on motorways, highways, and other national roads.

Furthermore, the private sector has met some of the critical needs, highlighting its key role in the recovery and reconstruction process, and many firms have started to invest in repairs and resilience. Estimates indicate that the private sector could potentially cover a third of total needs.

Ukraine: Post-war reconstruction set to cost $524 billion

The total cost of reconstruction and recovery in Ukraine is estimated at $524 billion (€506 billion) over the next decade, according to a new study published on Tuesday.

news.un.org

 

[branmuffin]

Truman ended the war with the atomic bomb.

It wasn't a peace deal, Germany had surrended. They were negotiating borders and other terms with Germany. Japan was still active in the war. In the last meeting, Turman announce the US had just dropped a nuclear warhead in Japan. The act ended the war.

Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations - Office of the Historian

history.state.gov 3.0 shell

history.state.gov

The Potsdam Conference, 1945
The Big Three—Soviet leader Joseph Stalin, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill (replaced on July 26 by Prime Minister Clement Attlee), and U.S. President Harry Truman—met in Potsdam, Germany, from July 17 to August 2, 1945, to negotiate terms for the end of World War II. After the Yalta Conference of February 1945, Stalin, Churchill, and U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt had agreed to meet following the surrender of Germany to determine the postwar borders in Europe. Germany surrendered on May 8, 1945, and the Allied leaders agreed to meet over the summer at Potsdam to continue the discussions that had begun at Yalta. Although the Allies remained committed to fighting a joint war in the Pacific, the lack of a common enemy in Europe led to difficulties reaching consensus concerning postwar reconstruction on the European continent
...
The Potsdam Conference is perhaps best known for President Truman’s July 24, 1945 conversation with Stalin, during which time the President informed the Soviet leader that the United States had successfully detonated the first atomic bomb on July 16, 1945. Historians have often interpreted Truman’s somewhat firm stance during negotiations to the U.S. negotiating team’s belief that U.S. nuclear capability would enhance its bargaining power. Stalin, however, was already well-informed about the U.S. nuclear program thanks to the Soviet intelligence network; so he also held firm in his positions. This situation made negotiations challenging. The leaders of the United States, Great Britain, and the Soviet Union, who, despite their differences, had remained allies throughout the war, never met again collectively to discuss cooperation in postwar reconstruction.

Germany already knew it was losing the war which is why those meetings occurred in February of 1945. The US didn't successfully detonate a bomb until July 1945. Japan was bombed August 6 and August 9 1945. And it is fairly normal for disparate groups of individuals with common goals and enemies to make agreements. The Yalta Agreement held in 1945 not only was to plan post war reorganization of Europe after Germany's fall and surrender it was to agree to give liberated countries self determination, not be under the thumb of the liberators. Fast forward 80 years and the country supposedly negotiating for peace in Ukraine can't even spell self-determination, is not interested in self determination only to clean out the coffers.

 

[Simply Southern]

Here is some quantification of what has been done already and what is yet to be done. The private sector and Ukraine government have already been working on restoration. In time, additional resources will become clear. imo


RDNA4 identifies and excludes over $13 billion (€12.6 billion) in needs across eight sectors that have already been met by Ukraine, with support from partners and the private sector.

For example, government data shows that at least $1.2 billion (€1.1 billion) was disbursed from state budget and donor funds last year for housing sector recovery, while over 2,000 km of emergency repairs were carried out on motorways, highways, and other national roads.

Furthermore, the private sector has met some of the critical needs, highlighting its key role in the recovery and reconstruction process, and many firms have started to invest in repairs and resilience. Estimates indicate that the private sector could potentially cover a third of total needs.

Ukraine: Post-war reconstruction set to cost $524 billion

The total cost of reconstruction and recovery in Ukraine is estimated at $524 billion (€506 billion) over the next decade, according to a new study published on Tuesday.

news.un.org

I'm surprised at the positive progress, during active combat. They've done quite well. Moo

 

[Cedars]

I came across some info about the dire state of the Russian economy. The most detailed assessments come from online experts that MSM doesn't cover - however see link below.

It is far from the case that 'sanctions aren't working' plus the cost of the war itself is enormous.

Russian interest rates are 21%

Inflation is 10% and increasing rapidly, because Putin has dictated interest rates must not go higher, and yet that is how the bank brings down inflation.

There is a shortage of labour, so industry is stalled. Goods are in short supply, because there are no imports.

To persuade soldiers to fight, they are offered extremely high pay, but with inflation they keep demanding higher pay. They don't care about winning the war, unlike Ukranians.

"The economy can't survive like this for long," said Sberbank CEO German Gref in early December,"

Presumably, all the leaders know this from their own intelligence services.

So choosing this moment to offer Putin and the Russians a lifeline, that he'll win the war on his own terms, is just so....so...arggh

Russian inflation climbs as Ukraine offensive weighs on economy

Inflation in Russia accelerated in 2024, official statistics published Wednesday showed, as the costs of Moscow's full-scale offensive on Ukraine weigh on the domestic economy.

www.france24.com

 

[Dotta]

" 'The current negotiations with the United States put Ukraine in a worse position than a few months ago'.

This is how an expert, chief economist,
assesses the negotiations between Washington and Kiev in our interview.

'The Ukrainian government is trying to maintain optimism
despite the difficult situation.

The current negotiations with the United States put Ukraine in a worse position than a few months ago.

America is talking to Russia over the heads of Europeans,
but especially Ukrainians.

The European Union is trying to make up for lost time and increase its involvement',
the expert assesses.

He draws attention to signals that are particularly worrying for Ukraine:

'During the celebrations of the third anniversary of the conflict in Kiev,
the presence of US government representatives was minimal.

On the same day,
at the UN, the United States voted for the first time in history, together with Russia and several other countries, against its allies.

However,
almost the entire European Commission was there in person,
as well as a number of leaders of EU countries',
he points out.

'The vote at the UN, in which
the USA did not support its European partners but supported Russia,
sparked a wide discussion in Ukraine',
he added.

'The United States is approaching the agreement in a business-like manner,
seeking to exploit Ukraine's natural resources
and shape the post-war order.

It is reminiscent of the Lend-Lease program from World War II.

Britain, among others, paid off these obligations to the US as late as the 1990s',
he says.

America profits from wars and this is not surprising,
according to our interlocutor.

'However,
it is crucial that the benefits are accompanied by security guarantees
and the appropriate use of funds from Ukrainian energy resources and rare metals'.

The expert also adds
that the resources that Trump wants to have access to
are largely located in occupied territories,
and their exact size remains unknown.

The geological studies cited by the Ukrainian side have not been updated in recent years,
which makes it difficult to estimate their potential.

The expert also assesses
the chances of European companies participating in the process of rebuilding Ukraine.

In his opinion,
the activity of entities from overseas is more pronounced in this respect.

'European companies will be present in Ukraine after a lasting peace is established,
but
currently it is American companies that dominate in terms of interest in reconstruction.

Europe would have to engage much more in business now
in order not to lose influence',
he says."

More in the link

Przyszłość Ukrainy w cieniu decyzji USA. Ekonomista: niepewność co do intencji Ameryki

Obecne negocjacje ze Stanami Zjednoczonymi stawiają Ukrainę w gorszej pozycji niż kilka miesięcy temu. Ameryka ponad głowami Europejczyków, ale przede wszystkim Ukraińców, rozmawia z Rosją - tak negocjacje na...

www.money.pl

 

[Cedars]

...the United States voted for the first time in history, together with Russia and several other countries, against its allies.

RSBM

Yes, the US standing shoulder to shoulder with Russia, China and North Korea, in opposition to Europe.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I'm surprised at the positive progress, during active combat. They've done quite well. Moo

I was wondering if Russia has or will target that new construction and destroy it. That would be a shame. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Three years on from Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, deadly attacks and drone strikes continue on a daily basis.

Ukraine war briefing: One dead and children injured in Russian attack on Kramatorsk

Tentative talks between US and Russia on Ukraine’s future have begun - but the reality for Ukrainians is still daily missile and drone attacks from Putin’s forces

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Cedars]

I was wondering if Russia has or will target that new construction and destroy it. That would be a shame. JMO.

Yes, that's the thing.

No one is going to invest billions in reconstruction or development without a security situation that offers assurance Russia won't destroy or try to capture it.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Yes, that's the thing.

No one is going to invest billions in reconstruction or development without a security situation that offers assurance Russia won't destroy or try to capture it.

Then why are they doing it now with the war still going on?

 

[Dotta]

Breaking News

"Ukraine agrees to minerals agreement.​

The Financial Times reported on Tuesday that Ukraine had agreed to a deal on minerals, after Washington dropped its most stringent demands."

Media: Ukraina zgodziła się na umowę ws. minerałów

Jest zgoda ze strony Ukrainy ws. umowy dot. minerałów po tym, jak Waszyngton zrezygnował z najsurowszych żądań - podaje…

wiadomosci.wp.pl

 

[Stunned]

RSBM

Yes, the US standing shoulder to shoulder with Russia, China and North Korea, in opposition to Europe.

We are no longer the leaders of the free world.

 

[Cedars]

Then why are they doing it now with the war still going on?

Probably because it was BT: Before Trump. Back when the US acted like an ally, with 80 years of history of actively preventing war in Europe.