Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #11

[Dotta]

"European shares close at record high ​

after upbeat earnings; ​

US-Ukraine deal in focus.​

European shares closed at a record high on Wednesday
as corporate earnings took centre stage
and investors assessed the impact
of a critical minerals agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine."

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/european-shares-near-record-peak-us-ukraine-deal-ab-inbev-boost-sentiment-2025-02-26/

 

[Dotta]

"US-Russia Meeting in Istanbul.​

On Thursday,
the US and Russia will hold talks in Istanbul on rebuilding diplomatic relations.

A US State Department spokesman said
the war in Ukraine would not be discussed.

'To be clear,
there are no political or security issues on the agenda.
Ukraine will not be a topic either',
a U.S. State Department spokesman said.

The meeting is aimed
at rebuilding diplomatic relations
between the two countries.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and US Secretary of State Marco Rubio
confirmed that the main goal of the meeting in Istanbul
is to work on rebuilding diplomatic missions in Washington and Moscow.

Russia has not had an ambassador to the United States since October of last year,
further underscoring the need to resume diplomatic dialogue.

The meeting in Istanbul is expected
to be a step toward normalizing relations between the two countries."

Spotkanie USA-Rosja w Stambule. Pojawi się temat tabu

W czwartek w Stambule odbędą się rozmowy między USA a Rosją, dotyczące odbudowy relacji dyplomatycznych. Rzecznik Departamentu Stanu USA przekazał, że temat wojny w Ukrainie nie będzie poruszany.

wiadomosci.wp.pl

 

[SouthAussie]

Does he not read the press? I find it hard to believe. Did he not attend or communicate with the Ukraine governing body?
Moo... He's grasping at straws. He's lost control and he knows it.

Hoping the agreement is signed. Hoping a peace deal is soon to follow. The POWs are released and the Ukrainians citizens can begin to rebuild their lives.

Moo...

Conversely, I don't think he has lost control. He is doing what a good government does. He is letting his negotiators do what they think is right for Ukraine, according to their internal discussions. Get the framework together.

Unlike the US, many (most?) countries vote for a government, not a person (President). It is that government's job to rule based on that mandate.

In my own country, we can see the govt leader (Prime Minister) change throughout a govt's term in office. Because we have voted for the govt, not for the Prime Minister of our choice. It is up to the govt of our choice to choose their own leader throughout.
.

 

[Dotta]

"Zelensky confirms. ​

He will go to Washington.​

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky confirmed his visit to Washington.

He added
that he expects security guarantees
before signing a partnership agreement on the exploitation of Ukrainian natural resources.

'Guarantees of peace and security are the key to stopping Russia from destroying the lives of other nations',
Ukrainian President noted.

'It is important to me
and to all of us around the world
that America's aid continues',
he added."

Zełenski stawia warunek. Tego chce przed podpisaniem umowy z Trumpem

Prezydent Ukrainy Wołodymyr Zełenski potwierdził wizytę w Waszyngtonie. Dodał, że przed podpisaniem umowy o partnerstwie w eksploatacji ukraińskich złóż naturalnych oczekuje gwarancji bezpieczeństwa.

wiadomosci.wp.pl

 

[SouthAussie]

So I wonder what now happens with the existing agreement for minerals between the EU and Ukraine. Is there anything mentioned in MSM about that? Is it somehow included in the US/Ukraine minerals framework agreement?

 

[Simply Southern]

So I wonder what now happens with the existing agreement for minerals between the EU and Ukraine. Is there anything mentioned in MSM about that? Is it somehow included in the US/Ukraine minerals framework agreement?

The ,minerals are located in Russian occupied territory.

There is no peace deal on the table at the moment. There may be room for negotiation. EU could lift sanctions for return of the mineral rights. EU could try to negotiate for their return or a percent of the revenue. Putin, may choose to keep ownership.EU could try to take by force. Ukraine could continue to try to retake the territory, but not if a peace deal is signed. Ukraine could repay the loan. EU could forgive the loan. Just don't know ???

Keep in mind there has been no communication with Russia over the last four years. Currently we are trying to reestablish a relationship, this won't happen over night.

Edit to add... There's been no/lottle mention of the EU agreement in US media. No/lottle mention of reduced funding. Seems US media has accepted, we won't be funding. The news is focusing on the agreement and if Putin will negotiate for a peace deal.
Moo

 

[SouthAussie]

The ,minerals are located in Russian occupied territory.

There is no peace deal on the table at the moment. There may be room for negotiation. EU could lift sanctions for return of the mineral rights. EU could try to negotiate for their return or a percent of the revenue. Putin, may choose to keep ownership.EU could try to take by force. Ukraine could continue to try to retake the territory, but not if a peace deal is signed. Ukraine could repay the loan. EU could forgive the loan. Just don't know ???

Keep in mind there has been no communication with Russia over the last four years. Currently we are trying to reestablish a relationship, this won't happen over night.

Edit to add... There's been no/lottle mention of the EU agreement in US media. No/lottle mention of reduced funding. Seems US media has accepted, we won't be funding. The news is focusing on the agreement and if Putin will negotiate for a peace deal.
Moo

If that is true, that the minerals are currently in Russia's control, how is Ukraine going to get access to them for the US?
Is Russia just going to leave? I thought the US had said (in their opinion) that Ukraine would have to give up "some of" its territory in a peace deal?

I think the minerals are all over the place, according to this article.
And I still wonder how they are going to divvy them up according to the current EU agreement with Ukraine, and the proposed US agreement with Ukraine. I guess we will see what shakes out.


Ukraine's reserves are largely found in the northwest and central regions of the country, which have remained firmly under Kyiv's control.
Lithium deposits, meanwhile, are scattered across Ukraine's central, east and southeast regions — the latter of which are currently held largely by Russia.

A look at Ukraine's minerals and rare earth elements, which Trump wants as payback for wartime aid

The Trump administration is apparently nearing a deal with Ukraine that could grant the U.S. access to mineral resources in exchange for security guarantees.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Simply Southern]

I tried to attach map showing the location of the minerals. Didn't work out.

@SouthAussie There's a really good map in this article. The map shows mineral by type and location, shows Russian occupied territory. It does not tell which are active sites. Mineral exploration is very expenses. They could drill several areas before making a strike. (There's a cable show in the US, I love. Mining for gold in Australia. It's small time mining, they rent the site for a season, usually couples. Husbands family was involved in mining coal in WVA. It's very expensive)

Does Ukraine REALLY have trillions in minerals?

The Ukrainian Geological Survey last year claimed that the war-torn country had reserves of rare minerals - but US scientists made no mention of sought-after earths in their own survey.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SouthAussie]

Well, here is some kind of answer, any deal between the US and Ukraine would exclude any current agreements. Presumably that means it will only be for minerals not included in the EU's current agreement with Ukraine.


Ukraine’s Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal said Wednesday that Kyiv would be funneling half of the revenues from future natural resources projects into the fund, with money being reinvested in more developments.

Shmyhal stressed the deal would exclude existing “deposits, facilities, licenses and royalties” tied to Ukraine’s natural resources.

“We are only talking about future licenses, developments and infrastructure,” he said.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/26/europe/ukraine-us-mineral-resources-deal-explained-intl-latam/index.html

 

[Simply Southern]

If that is true, that the minerals are currently in Russia's control, how is Ukraine going to get access to them for the US?
Is Russia just going to leave? I thought the US had said (in their opinion) that Ukraine would have to give up "some of" its territory in a peace deal?

I think the minerals are all over the place, according to this article.
And I still wonder how they are going to divvy them up according to the current EU agreement with Ukraine, and the proposed US agreement with Ukraine. I guess we will see what shakes out.


Ukraine's reserves are largely found in the northwest and central regions of the country, which have remained firmly under Kyiv's control.
Lithium deposits, meanwhile, are scattered across Ukraine's central, east and southeast regions — the latter of which are currently held largely by Russia.

A look at Ukraine's minerals and rare earth elements, which Trump wants as payback for wartime aid

The Trump administration is apparently nearing a deal with Ukraine that could grant the U.S. access to mineral resources in exchange for security guarantees.

www.cbsnews.com

Maybe after they wrap up the mineral deal, they will move on to the peace agreement.

 

[Dotta]

Trump tells Europe it's up to you to protect Ukraine

US President Donald Trump said Wednesday it was up to Europe to offer security guarantees to Ukraine, declining to make US promises as part of a deal for Ukraine's natural resources.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Cedars]

Trump tells Europe it's up to you to protect Ukraine

US President Donald Trump said Wednesday it was up to Europe to offer security guarantees to Ukraine, declining to make US promises as part of a deal for Ukraine's natural resources.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Interesting turn around: after the US invaded non-NATO Afganistan, NATO staged a peacekeeping force there. For at least 15 years.

"At its height, the force was more than 130,000 strong, with troops from 51 NATO and partner nations."

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_69366.htm

NATO is also directly involved in Iraq, a non-NATO country.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_232815.htm

"Since 2018, through its advising and capacity-building efforts, NATO Mission Iraq has contributed to make Iraqi security forces, institutions and structures more effective, inclusive and sustainable for the long term."

So, when it is a question of US security, NATO is involved. When it is a question of other NATO member's security, the US vetos it.

So maybe the question of why Europe should commit their limited resouces to NATO might start coming up?

 

[Simply Southern]

Interesting turn around: after the US invaded non-NATO Afganistan, NATO staged a peacekeeping force there. For at least 15 years.

"At its height, the force was more than 130,000 strong, with troops from 51 NATO and partner nations."

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_69366.htm

NATO is also directly involved in Iraq, a non-NATO country.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_232815.htm

"Since 2018, through its advising and capacity-building efforts, NATO Mission Iraq has contributed to make Iraqi security forces, institutions and structures more effective, inclusive and sustainable for the long term."

So, when it is a question of US security, NATO is involved. When it is a question of other NATO member's security, the US vetos it.

So maybe the question of why Europe should commit their limited resouces to NATO might start coming up?

On Sept 11, 2001, the United States was attacked on US soil by Al-Qaeda. Killing thousands of American citizens.
The President George W Bush declared war on Al-QaedaOct 7, 2001.
The US is a NATO member. NATO supported the United States during the war in Afghanistan. The US received full combat full military support from all NATO Nations. It's a part of the agreement, members are entitled, members pay dues.

NATO provides training for Iraq, not a member and granted partner status. We need all the support we can get in the Middle East.

Ukraine is not a NATO member. NATO has supported Ukraine financially. NATO will not defend or send ground troops into Ukraine. It would be considered an act of war. They are not entitled to combat or physical support.

Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

Trump tells Europe it's up to you to protect Ukraine

US President Donald Trump said Wednesday it was up to Europe to offer security guarantees to Ukraine, declining to make US promises as part of a deal for Ukraine's natural resources.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This has been his message for days. Per the agreement, the US will support efforts for peacekeeping troops. I do know several neighboring counties have offered up peacekeeping troops.
Moo

 

[Dotta]

This has been his message for days. Per the agreement, the US will support efforts for peacekeeping troops. I do know several neighboring counties have offered up peacekeeping troops.
Moo

My country will not take part in a possible peace mission in Ukraine, our PM emphasized that the priority is to defend our own country.

Several experts in MSM analyzed the problems associated with maintaining future peace in Ukraine -

'Let's assume that an agreement has been reached, we have a ceasefire, and troops of the so-called 'coalition of the willing' are going to Ukraine.
But what if there is some provocation from Russia?
We cannot rule this out."

Europa gotowa wysłać wojska na Ukrainę. "Polska mówi nie wyślemy"

- Europa jest gotowa wysłać swoje wojska na Ukrainę. Gotowość już potwierdziły dwa mocarstwa atomowe, czyli Wielka Brytania i Francja. Przystąpienia do tej koalicji nie wyklucza Szwecja i państwa Bałtyckie, czy...

wiadomosci.wp.pl

 

[Simply Southern]

My country will not take part in a possible peace mission in Ukraine, our PM emphasized that the priority is to defend our own country.

Several experts in MSM analyzed the problems associated with maintaining future peace in Ukraine -

'Let's assume that an agreement has been reached, we have a ceasefire, and troops of the so-called 'coalition of the willing' are going to Ukraine.
But what if there is some provocation from Russia?
We cannot rule this out."

Europa gotowa wysłać wojska na Ukrainę. "Polska mówi nie wyślemy"

- Europa jest gotowa wysłać swoje wojska na Ukrainę. Gotowość już potwierdziły dwa mocarstwa atomowe, czyli Wielka Brytania i Francja. Przystąpienia do tej koalicji nie wyklucza Szwecja i państwa Bałtyckie, czy...

wiadomosci.wp.pl

Exactly. Peacekeeping troops are not there to protect the country. They will not engage in combat.

What do UN peacekeepers do?

Protect civilians
Prevent conflict
Reduce violence
Support elections
Promote human rights
Restore the rule of law
Disarm combatants
Empower national authorities

The US absolutely, under no circumstances will send troops into Ukraine. Zelenskyy is kinda a wild card. He doesn't control his emotions and plays to the media. I think it's going to be a time bomb for anyone providing peacekeepers. Moo

All it takes is ... one Ukrainian soldier accidently firing at a Russian soldier to instigate full combat.

Moo

 

[SouthAussie]

"Ukraine’s parliament has overwhelmingly approved a resolution affirming the legitimacy of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s stay in office, asserting the constitutionality of deferring the presidential election while the country is at war.

The 268 parliament members present on Tuesday voted unanimously to approve the resolution, while 12 other MPs were not present during the session."

Ukrainian parliament affirms Zelenskyy’s legitimacy

The 268 parliament members present on Tuesday voted unanimously in support of the Ukrainian president.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[SouthAussie]

The Russian Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, praises the United States for siding with Russia in two votes at the UN to avoid condemnation of Moscow’s campaign against Ukraine.

Russia praises US votes in UN siding with Russia

The Russian Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, praises the United States for siding with Russia in two votes at the UN.

www.aljazeera.com

The United States abstained from signing a statement by members of the World Trade Organisation (WTO) condemning Russian aggression.

Ukraine-Russia war latest: Trump says Zelensky will sign minerals deal on Friday

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky says further agreement on fund to follow

www.independent.co.uk

 

[SouthAussie]

"The former chief of the defence staff warned it is “inevitable” that Russia will seek to test any defence force placed in Ukraine in the event of a deal to end the war. “If we send troops, they will be tested, and they have to robustly be able to defend themselves,” Lord Richards told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

He said given the size of the border between Russia and Ukraine a force of 100,000 to 200,000 troops would be needed. He added that these troops would need to be rotated, which could significantly increase the number that would be required to maintain the presence."

Ukraine-Russia war latest: Trump says Zelensky will sign minerals deal on Friday

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky says further agreement on fund to follow

www.independent.co.uk

 

[branmuffin]

Exactly. Peacekeeping troops are not there to protect the country. They will not engage in combat.

What do UN peacekeepers do?

Protect civilians
Prevent conflict
Reduce violence
Support elections
Promote human rights
Restore the rule of law
Disarm combatants
Empower national authorities

The US absolutely, under no circumstances will send troops into Ukraine. Zelenskyy is kinda a wild card. He doesn't control his emotions and plays to the media. I think it's going to be a time bomb for anyone providing peacekeepers. Moo

All it takes is ... one Ukrainian soldier accidently firing at a Russian soldier to instigate full combat.

Moo

The UN is a peace keeping organization. NATO is a fighting force if it becomes necessary. The philosophy is 'and armed attack against one member, is an armed attack against all members'.