Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #11

[PommyMommy]

FEB 28, 2025

Zelensky thanks America for 4 minutes straight​

During his visit to Washington on Feb. 28, President Volodymyr Zelensky had a heated exchange with U.S. President Donald Trump and Vice President JD Vance over ways to end Russia's war against Ukraine. Trump and Vance have repeatedly claimed that Zelensky has not been sufficiently grateful for U.S. support throughout the war.

The Kyiv Independent has compiled instances where Zelensky has publicly expressed gratitude to the U.S., its people, and its leadership for being Ukraine’s largest supporter.

 

[snarast]

It was spectacular TV.

 

[SouthAussie]

It was spectacular TV.

Yes, spectacularly horrific. I think the whole world has seen the bullying by US leaders. Very, very, very SAD.

imo

 

[snarast]

Yes, spectacularly horrific. I think the whole world has seen the bullying by US leaders. Very, very, very SAD.

imo

I’m hoping it’s part of a strategy - call me an optimist.

 

[JDG]

Meanwhile, what’s happening in China these days?

Anyone keeping an eye on that part of the world?

I know, I know but sometimes distractions, esp dramatic ones, can be used.

 

[snarast]

Meanwhile, what’s happening in China these days?

Anyone keeping an eye on that part of the world?

I know, I know but sometimes distractions, esp dramatic ones, can be used.

First he takes Manhattan - then he takes Berlin/Greenland/Gaza/Canada.

It’s hard to take seriously, but I guess that’s required.

 

[SouthAussie]

Meanwhile, what’s happening in China these days?

Anyone keeping an eye on that part of the world?

I know, I know but sometimes distractions, esp dramatic ones, can be used.

Yes we are. We have had Chinese warships off our coast (in the Tasman Sea between Australia and NZ) during the past week. Doing live-fire drills.
We stumbled on the fact and had to divert air traffic once a Virgin pilot heard them and alerted Airservices Australia who then notified our Dept of Defence.
A NZ naval vessel has been shadowing the Chinese warships. Watching them.

A murky picture has emerged over China’s live-fire drills. Who knew what when?

Here’s what we know about how Australia learned about Chinese navy exercises held in the Tasman Sea over two days

www.theguardian.com

 

[JDG]

The Canadians ran them (US) off in 1812.

Might have to rinse and repeat.

No problem.

 

[snarast]

The Canadians ran them (US) off in 1812.

Might have to rinse and repeat.

No problem.

Around the same time 1809 Sweden lost the war against Russia and had to give up Finland.

You’re on the right side of the pond - that nice big ocean - I’m not.

 

[Vern]

Let,s Agree on one thing.
The War needs to end, and end now.
Zelenskyy has played his best cards for Three years now.
He does not have any good cards anymore.
If he can,t deal with the people at the table he should have
never got into it in the first place. And good on Vice president Vance
for speaking up at the time.

Yet the US administration has yet to ask Russia to leave Ukraine.

That's it. War over ... or at least a very great diplomatic place to start!

POTUS did point out though that the Russians suffered a lot of killed soldiers invading that occupied Ukranian land, so they should keep it. Who cares?

Trump said that he was not having Nato membership and that it was “unlikely” that Ukraine would take much land back in the negotiations.
Russia “took a lot of land, and they fought for that land and they lost a lot of soldiers”, he told reporters later in the Oval Office.
Trump said he was not closely concerned with which territories were handed over.

No, that's traiterous. And it's a full up surrender, not a "peace deal".


If one thing is clear after today, it is that the US can no longer claim to be unbiaised or impartial in negotiations on behalf of Ukraine and certainly no longer holds the moral authority to do so. They have clearly sided with Russia.

Slava Ukraini.

.

 

[Vern]

Zelenskyy's playing games, he thinks his buddy Macron is gonna save him. He wants to divide NATO, divide European and US relationship. BIG MISTAKE!!!
Made me sick to see Zelensky sitting their rolling his eyes, smirking, and shaking his head. He doesn't want to end the war, he said so. His true self came out shouting .... Putin needs to pay for reconstruction, they need to give Ukraine frozen Russian assets, Putin needs to give back our land. Demanding Europe and US stop Putin. Even when Trump said this could lead to WWII, he still wouldn't shut up. I knew then he' had no intentions of a peace deal.
Hoping President Trump stands firm .... Trashing America does not get what you what you want. Happy there's an ocean between us and this guy.
Moo...

To be clear, it was Trump who was pulling out of NATO back as 45 and threatening to tear it down. And he was back at it within 48hrs of swearing in as 47. This has zero to do with Zelinskyy games at division.
Ref: NATO Atlantic Council, 28 August 2018

He (Zelenskyy) said there needed to be security guarantees for in order for the war to be ended. Guarantees for Ukraine's future and freedom from future Russian aggression AKA Budapest Memorandum of 1994 V2.0. Ukraine gave up their 1700 nukes and the US and Britain in turn guaranteed them future security from Russia if Russia should ever breach that Memorandum and invade them.
Ref: Budapest Memorandum of 1994 - Signatory: the USofA Pages 167-172

There's a mere 53 miles of seperation between Russia and the USofA; not an ocean, just a sea. Isolationism has it's own downsides.

Not my opinions. Facts - as per the official sources above.

Now, my opinion, why would you, as Ukraine, ever again trust either Russia OR the USofA to live up to any international or Peace Agreement when their track record is already a 'fail' as per version 1.0 of the Memorandum??

 

[Betty P]

Perhaps because they're getting nothing of value in return? What kind of leader would Zelenskyy be if he just gave up? He is the President of Ukraine and is obligated to act in the best interests of the Ukranian people and their future. They have a country to rebuild. Why would he surrender their assets? The rare earth minerals in Ukraine are a bargaining tool for them. That's their card. If they give that up, they truly have nothing left with which to negotiate.

And why would he agree to a “peace” with Russia with no guarantee of protection from allies if Russia ignores the treaty and invades Ukraine again? Years ago, Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for a guarantee from NATO that they would defend Ukraine if Russia attacked them. Now, Trump refuses to honor that agreement.

 

[Betty P]

Republicans terrified of crossing Trump due to physical threats, Democrat says

Eric Swalwell says threats to them and their families are stopping GOP officials from criticizing president

www.theguardian.com

Democrats assail Trump, Vance over Zelensky meeting​

https://thehill.com/policy/international/5169818-democrats-attack-trump-vance-ukraine-meeting/

 

[JennieM]

They were all nice to the Russians, then rude to our president - Ukrainian MP​

IMAGE SOURCE, GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Inna Sovsun (file photo)
An opposition Ukrainian MP has voiced support for Zelensky after his public row with Trump in the White House.

Inna Sovsun, a member of the Holos (Voice) party, told BBC Radio 4's the World Tonight programme that the Ukrainian president had been "attacked" by his American counterpart and Vice-President JD Vance, and "couldn’t have predicted that level of aggression".

"I do believe the president was speaking on behalf of all Ukrainian people," Sovsun said, adding that Trump and Vance "did clearly try to offend him".

"They clearly pointed out that it was his fault that the war is ongoing, which was an absolutely unacceptable thing to say," she said.

"And what strikes me most is, if you remember a week or so ago when the American team was negotiating with the Russians, they were all nice and cordial to the representatives of the country that has attacked, to the aggressor state. Yet when dealing with the president of the country that is the victim of the attack, they have been rude and unacceptably offensive.”

Zelensky tells BBC Ukraine 'ready to sign' minerals deal with US

The Ukrainian president's comments to Laura Kuenssberg came after he failed to sign the deal at the White House on Friday.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JennieM]

44m ago07.32 GMT
Ukraine’s air defences destroyed 103 of 154 drones that Russia launched in its latest overnight strike, Kyiv’s air force said on Saturday.

The other 51 drones were “locationally lost”, it said, likely as a result of electronic jamming, Reuters reports.

‘You have full backing across the UK’: Zelenskyy leaves Downing Street after meeting with Starmer – as it happened

Ukrainian president has held talks with PM Keir Starmer ahead of defence summit with European leaders tomorrow. This blog is now closed.

www.theguardian.com

 

[JennieM]

How JD Vance emerged as the chief saboteur of the transatlantic alliance
Andrew Roth in Washington

Vance snaked his way in first to the row between Trump and Zelenskyy, his second intrusion this month after Munich

JD Vance was supposed to be the inconsequential vice-president.

But his starring role in Friday’s blowup between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy – where he played a cross between Trump’s bulldog and tech bro Iago – may mark the moment that the postwar alliance between Europe and America finally collapsed.

Trump and Vance teamed up to goad Zelenskyy into a feud in the Oval Office. But it was Vance that snaked his way in first, riling up the Ukrainian president by telling him that he was leading “propaganda tours” of the destruction wrought by Russia’s invasion.

[…]

How JD Vance emerged as the chief saboteur of the transatlantic alliance

Vance snaked his way in first to the row between Trump and Zelenskyy, his second intrusion this month after Munich

www.theguardian.com

 

[Lilibet]

I think this might be the moment when the free world truly understands that the US is not its leader any more.
It is going to take a while for all of us to adjust to that.

imo

I’ve watched many experts today on substack and on MSM. It is not unusual to hear them say that the U.S.is no longer the leader of the free world, after 80 years. Whether by design or incompetence, we have made clear at the U.N. who our allies are when we signed the resolution that didn’t hold Moscow responsible. We side with Russia, N. Korea. Sudan, Belarus, Hungary among others. Not exactly bastions of freedom. But as we watch freedom erode within the U.S since January 20, how could we lead by example? I have felt safe and free in the U.S all my 79 years (except for the Cuban missile Crisis and 9-11). No longer. Experts on the subject believe that we are at the threshold of an autocracy, some would say dictatorship, and some would say we’re already there.
JMO

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7435pnle0gohttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7435pnle0go

The US has twice sided with Russia in votes at the United Nations to mark the third anniversary of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, highlighting the Trump administration's change of stance on the war.

First, the US opposed a European-drafted resolution condemning Moscow's actions and supporting Ukraine's territorial integrity - voting the same way as Russia and countries including North Korea and Belarus at the UN General Assembly (UNGA) in New York.

Then the US drafted and voted for a resolution at the UN Security Council which called for an end to the conflict, but contained no criticism of Russia.

 

[JennieM]

I’ve watched many experts today on substack and on MSM. It is not unusual to hear them say that the U.S.is no longer the leader of the free world, after 80 years. Whether by design or incompetence, we have made clear at the U.N. who our allies are when we signed the resolution that didn’t hold Moscow responsible. We side with Russia, N. Korea. Sudan, Belarus, Hungary among others. Not exactly bastions of freedom. But as we watch freedom erode within the U.S since January 20, how could we lead by example? I have felt safe and free in the U.S all my 79 years (except for the Cuban missile Crisis and 9-11). No longer. Experts on the subject believe that we are at the threshold of an autocracy, some would say dictatorship, and some would say we’re already there.
JMO

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7435pnle0gohttps://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7435pnle0go

The US has twice sided with Russia in votes at the United Nations to mark the third anniversary of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, highlighting the Trump administration's change of stance on the war.

First, the US opposed a European-drafted resolution condemning Moscow's actions and supporting Ukraine's territorial integrity - voting the same way as Russia and countries including North Korea and Belarus at the UN General Assembly (UNGA) in New York.

Then the US drafted and voted for a resolution at the UN Security Council which called for an end to the conflict, but contained no criticism of Russia.

Thank you for saying it how it is.

 

[TonnnnUK]

Genuine question for those lauding Trump and Vance on here, but how do you think stopping support for Ukraine, possibly backing out of NATO, stopping being the leading power of the world order will actually do for you personally?

Do you think "your tax dollars" will suddenly land back in your pockets?
The money being used to assist Ukraine amounts to mere fractions of your defence expenditure, which itself is 3.4% of GDP. It's literally cents on the dollar. The US is the richest nation by far, the most powerful by far. But it seems they want to capitulate to Putin.

And it's not JUST your country contributing, European partners do too. Now, I believe Europe as a whole has underpent and over-relied on America's power and we should do more. Equally, both Europe and the US while supplying Ukraine with weapons still imposed restrictions on how they can be used which hasn't helped their situation.
The world feels like it's become a much more dangerous place. The mighty America, should still be the upholders of the world order by their power projections.

Trump wants peace only for himself to have a chance for a Nobel Peace Prize. His moves to be closer to Russia are dangerous and setting a precedent that any powerful country can invade a smaller neighbour without consequences.

On another note, it's good to see European leaders express support for Zelensky. But action is now needed. European nations along with the UK need to make some hard (and costly) decisions for our security and be less dependable on the US.

 

[Legally Bland]

Zelenskyy's playing games, he thinks his buddy Macron is gonna save him. He wants to divide NATO, divide European and US relationship. BIG MISTAKE!!!
Made me sick to see Zelensky sitting their rolling his eyes, smirking, and shaking his head. He doesn't want to end the war, he said so. His true self came out shouting .... Putin needs to pay for reconstruction, they need to give Ukraine frozen Russian assets, Putin needs to give back our land. Demanding Europe and US stop Putin. Even when Trump said this could lead to WWII, he still wouldn't shut up. I knew then he' had no intentions of a peace deal.
Hoping President Trump stands firm .... Trashing America does not get what you what you want. Happy there's an ocean between us and this guy.
Moo...

Zelenskyy is dealing with reality, a reality which includes the mass murder of civilians in occupied territories. He knows what will happen if he agrees to a deal which results in Ukraine's capitulation.

Trump and Vance were spouting Russian propaganda not based on reality. Zelenskyy has never trashed the USA and has often shown his gratitude. But he has to challenge post truth BS, you can't negotiate a deal with someone who knowingly lies about what the deal is about. It was a shake down, peace on Russia's terms means mass murder, rape and ethnic cleansing.

Whatever eventually happens Zelenskyy will be seen as one of history's greatest leaders. I doubt Trump, the bone spur faking, draft dodging coward will be held in such regard.