Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #13

[acutename]

This is pure speculation on my part, but my guess is that the “minerals deal” was perhaps more than a “minerals deal”.

I think it might have been a carefully crafted, carefully worded agreement intended to enable the US to put “boots in the ground” in Ukraine (even if it would be only be a mix of corporate/partnership, scientific, advisor, worker, and a few military “boots”.

Any attack by Russia or separatist forces on US personnel (of whatever kind) would be justification for a US military response. I’m guessing that it was intended that many of the initial “mineral extraction” operations would have been located in the eastern part of Ukraine.

Again, I have no knowledge that this is what the minerals deal was all about. It’s pure speculation.

But for those who automatically assume that the evil US was trying to extort or exploit Ukraine, Ukraine’s minerals are not just sitting there. Look it up. Only a small percentage of Ukraine’s mineral resources are being mined. It is an untapped resource that Ukraine would eventually like to use to finance their country. It is apparently an extremely difficult and extremely expensive undertaking to try to extract these minerals.

From what I have read, there currently is ZERO rare earth metals mining occurring in Ukraine. This was not some deal to allow to the US to pay pennies on the dollar to rip off Ukraine. I think it may have been an effort to provide security for Ukraine without starting WW III - and a means of investing billions into Ukraine’s economy to help them rebuild. It was a partnership. If I’m right about an ulterior motive existing for the agreement, it may no longer be a realistic approach, as everybody now know its purpose

I think the minerals agreement might have been the only ways Zelensky was ever going to be able to get US “boots on the ground”, - and the only way the US could legitimately provide any border area security without starting a direct US (and therefore EU) war with Russia. It appears that It wasn’t enough for Zelensky. Just a possibility

Pure speculation, all jmo

yes- DJT kept saying "they will not attack if we are there" but the negotiation tactics where you tell different things to different sides seem not to work exceptionally well in the modern 24/7- news- leaks world and some people in the US think DJT should be more wary of Russia-

 

[UK Girl]

He clearly blindsided the President and mislead his reason for being there. He had no intention of signing the agreement and was playing to the media for good PR and to the American people who he was led to believe would be supportive. Big mistake and it may have cost him the deal.

Tbh as I said Zelensky was seen by most people to be the victim. The front page of every British page was in favour of him last Saturday.

 

[acutename]

He clearly blindsided the President and mislead his reason for being there. He had no intention of signing the agreement and was playing to the media for good PR and to the American people who he was led to believe would be supportive. Big mistake and it may have cost him the deal.

why has he not just started an online donation site (with the initials ) that I cannot write here? Have not seen a sovereign country do that but we are in strange times.

 

[UK Girl]

The war in Afghanistan was because the US was attacked on our soil. 9/11 A plane flown by terrorist flew into world trade center towers. A plane flown by terrorist flew in to our Pentagon, housing thousands of military workers. A plane was taking hostage by terrorist with US citizens and crashed in Pennsylvania All aboard died. All unless than 2 hours.

Thousands of Americans died. US Congress voted to declared war to declare war on Oct 7th. It is very disrespectful an extremely hurtful, to say that was an illegal war. We went to Afghanistan to hunt down the terrorist that murdered our US citizens. I appreciate all our allies that supported the US.

I also remember quite well the cost of many American soldiers when we aided Europe during World War II. Many thousands gave their lives to provide freedom for European countries.

NATO was designed to help protect European country. Maybe the US should really take a hard look at pulling out when our other NATO members have such low regard for the US. The US has many other allies, with very strong defense capability.

Moo...

Afghanistan was not mentioned. Yes I am sure many American soldiers died in Europe in the second war. Many British people have also died assisting America. It works both ways.

 

[LoveyG]

He clearly blindsided the President and mislead his reason for being there. He had no intention of signing the agreement and was playing to the media for good PR and to the American people who he was led to believe would be supportive. Big mistake and it may have cost him the deal.

I thought it was Trump who arranged for the media at the meeting?

 

[UK Girl]

I thought it was Trump who arranged for the media at the meeting?

It was ! The funny thing was he had been trying for weeks to demonize Zelensky so this should not have been such a shock to him.

 

[UK Girl]

Incidentally I keep reading that America have finished in this war and not contributing anything else but it appears that if some sort of path is agreed that the help may be reinstated

 

[Vern]

The war in Afghanistan was because the US was attacked on our soil. 9/11 A plane flown by terrorist flew into world trade center towers. A plane flown by terrorist flew in to our Pentagon, housing thousands of military workers. A plane was taking hostage by terrorist with US citizens and crashed in Pennsylvania All aboard died. All in less than 2 hours. We were attacked in our own country.

Thousands of Americans died. US Congress voted to declared war on Oct 7th. It is very disrespectful an extremely hurtful, to say that was an illegal war. We went to Afghanistan to hunt down the terrorist that murdered our US citizens. I appreciate all our allies that supported the US.

I also remember quite well the cost of many American soldiers when we aided Europe during World War II. Many thousands gave their lives to provide freedom for European countries.

NATO was designed to help protect European country. Maybe the US should really take a hard look at pulling out when our other NATO members have such low regard for the US. The US has many other allies, with very strong defense capability.

Moo...

I do believe that the "illegal war" being referred to in the o.p. by @UK Girl was

Iraq.


UK Girl, "THANK YOU" for your nation's service and sacrifice post 9/11; this Canadian certainly appreciated your nation being there alongside us! We will remember them.

.

 

[Simply Southern]

Tbh as I said Zelensky was seen by most people to be the victim. The front page of every British page was in favour of him last Saturday.

That is because he is a weak leader. Have you ever seen a more pitiful, whining President? The hugs, the pats on the back, the constant reassurance, the comfort and attention he requires. JD Vance said, what do European leaders are saying publicly, it's totally different than what's being said behind closed doors.

Europe wants this war over. They may not speak that publicly. They want this to end. They do not want to continue to full the full cost this war. They do not want to have to face their citizens and tell them they're going to send their sons and daughters into war. They realize Zelensky will continue to fight as long as he has weapons and financing. They realized how close we are to WWIII.

JD Vance was ask about the relationship impact on European countries. He said European country's are presenting a supportive front, but behind closed doors is a different story. Europe doesn't want to fund this on their own, the US is out. Are you willing for your country to fund it for the next one, two, three or four years. Are you willing for your taxes to increase, cuts to social programs? No elected official wants to bear that burden. They surely won't be reelected.

Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

I do believe that the "illegal war" being referred to in the o.p. by @UK Girl was

Iraq.


UK Girl, "THANK YOU" for your nation's service and sacrifice post 9/11; this Canadian certainly appreciated your nation being there alongside us! We will remember them.

.

Again hunting down terrorists that want to destroy America kill American citizens. Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

Incidentally I keep reading that America have finished in this war and not contributing anything else but it appears that if some sort of path is agreed that the help may be reinstated

After what he has said about the US and our president. The impact of negativity he created in the media. I highly doubt it. I see humanitarian aide, hopefully attached to a deal that he resign. More weapons, I'm not sure. Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

why has he not just started an online donation site (with the initials ) that I cannot write here? Have not seen a sovereign country do that but we are in strange times.

There are many out there already.

 

[JennieM]

32m ago23.36 GMT

US preparing to shut down consulates in Europe​

The US state department is preparing to shut down a number of consulates that are mainly in western Europe in the coming months and looking to reduce its workforce globally, multiple US officials said on Thursday.

The state department is also looking into potentially merging a number of its expert bureaus at its headquarters in Washington that are working in areas such as human rights, refugees, global criminal justice, women’s issues and efforts to counter human trafficking, the officials said.

Reuters reported last month that US missions around the world had been asked to look into reducing US and locally employed staff by at least 10% as Donald Trump and his billionaire aide Elon Musk have unleashed an unprecedented cost-cutting effort across the US federal workforce.

Zelenskyy joins EU leaders at defence summit as Russia accuses France of wanting Ukraine war to continue – Europe live

Leaders gather to discuss €800bn plan to boost military capacity as Kremlin says Macron’s comments were ‘extremely confrontational’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Deleted member 39678]

That is because he is a weak leader. Have you ever seen a more pitiful, whining President? The hugs, the pats on the back, the constant reassurance, the comfort and attention he requires. JD Vance said, what do European leaders are saying publicly, it's totally different than what's being said behind closed doors.

Europe wants this war over. They may not speak that publicly. They want this to end. They do not want to continue to full the full cost this war. They do not want to have to face their citizens and tell them they're going to send their sons and daughters into war. They realize Zelensky will continue to fight as long as he has weapons and financing. They realized how close we are to WWIII.

JD Vance was ask about the relationship impact on European countries. He said European country's are presenting a supportive front, but behind closed doors is a different story. Europe doesn't want to fund this on their own, the US is out. Are you willing for your country to fund it for the next one, two, three or four years. Are you willing for your taxes to increase, cuts to social programs? No elected official wants to bear that burden. They surely won't be reelected.

Moo

Very well said. Thank you.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

That is because he is a weak leader. Have you ever seen a more pitiful, whining President? The hugs, the pats on the back, the constant reassurance, the comfort and attention he requires. JD Vance said, what do European leaders are saying publicly, it's totally different than what's being said behind closed doors.

Europe wants this war over. They may not speak that publicly. They want this to end. They do not want to continue to full the full cost this war. They do not want to have to face their citizens and tell them they're going to send their sons and daughters into war. They realize Zelensky will continue to fight as long as he has weapons and financing. They realized how close we are to WWIII.

JD Vance was ask about the relationship impact on European countries. He said European country's are presenting a supportive front, but behind closed doors is a different story. Europe doesn't want to fund this on their own, the US is out. Are you willing for your country to fund it for the next one, two, three or four years. Are you willing for your taxes to increase, cuts to social programs? No elected official wants to bear that burden. They surely won't be reelected.

Moo

Interesting @Simply Southern …. and on the point of evaluating or critiquing country leaders - I would contend that unfortunately, IMO, what the US now has is a belligerent, petulant, and threatening or intimidating leader.

Such an unfortunate display for all to observe and witness. And on a national and international stage. SMH. MOO

 

[Arkay]

Zelenskyy has mentioned both, he has talked about the release of prisoners being part of any peace deal, and he tried to show Trump photos of the taken children, he later showed some in a tv interview, not all as I believe he said some were too distressing to be shown to the public. The photos are what some have been bleating about and using as an example of why they believe Zelenskyy was "disrespectful" amongst other things.

JMO unless I can find a link

Thank you, @Rolypolyoly, for reminding us about this. Of course, how can Z. and the Ukrainians just bow down to Russia when their children have been kidnapped?
Should they just forget they had those children, applaud Trump and thank him if the war ends by Ukraine being forced to surrender?

So much of this recalls for me the stories of Neville Chamberlain appeasing Hitler, thinking that would make him reverse course. Naturally, it only emboldened Hitler. The world needed a Winston Churchill, which thankfully the English gave us.

On a very simplified level, this is what I see:

Imagine your child is being beaten up by the playground bully. Every day your child is punched in the face, ridiculed, has his lunch money stolen.

You are desperate for this abuse to stop. You make a plan. You approach the bully and tell him to continue attacking your child until he’s ground into sand.
Now you’re happy, because your wish came true. It has stopped.

Only your child has not won. He is decimated. But hey, the fighting has stopped so it’s all good, right??

Silly but simple and I think all parents, grandparents, and all of us recalling our own childhoods would agree—surrender to the bully who started is a disaster for the victim.

Russia is on the offense, while Ukraine is on the defense. They’d love the war to end, but if they do it on Putin’s terms, they will be vanquished.

JMO

 

[UK Girl]

That is because he is a weak leader. Have you ever seen a more pitiful, whining President? The hugs, the pats on the back, the constant reassurance, the comfort and attention he requires. JD Vance said, what do European leaders are saying publicly, it's totally different than what's being said behind closed doors.

Europe wants this war over. They may not speak that publicly. They want this to end. They do not want to continue to full the full cost this war. They do not want to have to face their citizens and tell them they're going to send their sons and daughters into war. They realize Zelensky will continue to fight as long as he has weapons and financing. They realized how close we are to WWIII.

JD Vance was ask about the relationship impact on European countries. He said European country's are presenting a supportive front, but behind closed doors is a different story. Europe doesn't want to fund this on their own, the US is out. Are you willing for your country to fund it for the next one, two, three or four years. Are you willing for your taxes to increase, cuts to social programs? No elected official wants to bear that burden. They surely won't be reelected.

Moo

Europe want this war over IF it will be a long time peace. Not back to where we are now in a few months time. The European leaders would never act like they did last Friday. They all instantly threw their support behind last Friday and have told him that that will be ongoing.

Vance has no way of knowing what European leaders are saying behind closed doors. The fact is Vance has upset multiple leaders here. Zelensky has not. The leaders are working around the clock. They could say go and talk but instead they have made it plain they are behind Zelensky and Ukraine.

Btw the Us are not out. Zelensky is meeting America in Saudi next week. They have said the pause in weapons is just temporary. If Ukraine get on a path to peace it may restart!

 

[Vern]

Again hunting down terrorists that want to destroy America kill American citizens. Moo

To get the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" was the claim made at the actual time (Bush Sr should have finished that war off when he had the chance during GW1, IMO)

I was sitting in a little country to the south amongst my US peers watching intently as some left us carrying in the MOABs that we watched blowing just a short time later.

IIRC, it has since been proven that President Bush had actually been lied to about the existence of those WMDs by Secretary of State Powell, so I won't hold it against him. IMO.

Also IMO, I have zero issues with hunting down and taking out terrorists lest there be any doubt about that.

 

[UK Girl]

After what he has said about the US and our president. The impact of negativity he created in the media. I highly doubt it. I see humanitarian aide, hopefully attached to a deal that he resign. More weapons, I'm not sure. Moo

America themselves have said differently.

 

[UK Girl]

That is because he is a weak leader. Have you ever seen a more pitiful, whining President? The hugs, the pats on the back, the constant reassurance, the comfort and attention he requires. JD Vance said, what do European leaders are saying publicly, it's totally different than what's being said behind closed doors.

Europe wants this war over. They may not speak that publicly. They want this to end. They do not want to continue to full the full cost this war. They do not want to have to face their citizens and tell them they're going to send their sons and daughters into war. They realize Zelensky will continue to fight as long as he has weapons and financing. They realized how close we are to WWIII.

JD Vance was ask about the relationship impact on European countries. He said European country's are presenting a supportive front, but behind closed doors is a different story. Europe doesn't want to fund this on their own, the US is out. Are you willing for your country to fund it for the next one, two, three or four years. Are you willing for your taxes to increase, cuts to social programs? No elected official wants to bear that burden. They surely won't be reelected.

Moo

Incidentally Zelensky is far from a weak leader.