Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #13

[PommyMommy]

As always, I had a good meeting with @SecGenNATO Mark Rutte. We discussed real steps needed to achieve a just and lasting peace in Ukraine.

I informed Mark about the development of a plan that will include a unified European vision for ending the war, concrete security guarantees, and strengthening Ukraine. We also discussed enhancing our air defense.

I am grateful to Mark and NATO member states for their support and partnership in bringing peace closer to Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897745753260630120

U.S. President Trump is considering changing the format of U.S. participation in NATO, including renouncing the obligation to defend allies in case of an attack, NBC News reports.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897698737457078653

 

[Simply Southern]

Interesting information @Simply Southern ….. but unfortunately and respectfully need to agree with @BayouBelle_LA and the post #879 this thread. There is so much redacted in that source it is difficult to conclude many things from it. MOO

Call to the bottom of the page that I posted it left the organization. It's more than likely a subcontract.

 

[Simply Southern]

I am grateful to His Majesty King Philippe of the Belgians for the audience.

We discussed Belgium’s involvement in preparing the first steps toward ending the war. I look forward to His Majesty’s support in facilitating the return of Ukrainian children illegally deported and displaced by Russia.

I thank Belgium for the support throughout the three years of full-scale Russian aggression and for its position on achieving a just and lasting peace in Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897738777155842062

I spoke with Norwegian Prime Minister @jonasgahrstore. I thanked him for today’s unanimous decision by the Norwegian parliament @Stortinget to increase Norway’s aid to Ukraine this year from $3.2 billion to $7.7 billion.

This is a timely and necessary decision that should serve as an example for all our partners. The funds will be partly directed towards weapons production in Ukraine and strengthening our energy security. Thus, Ukraine’s negotiating positions on the path to a just and lasting peace will become even stronger.

I am grateful to Norway for demonstrating responsibility and readiness to increase its contribution to peace and stability in Europe.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897741773969219678

I was unaware Belgium what's involved in the negotiation. I wonder if they were added to the negotiation team.

 

[SouthAussie]

U.S. President Trump is considering changing the format of U.S. participation in NATO, including renouncing the obligation to defend allies in case of an attack, NBC News reports.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897698737457078653

Why doesn't he just pull out of NATO then? I am so tired of him trying to make all the rules. I wonder if the European leaders are getting tired of it also.

"Don't give intelligence to Ukraine". And now ... "just because you are in NATO doesn't mean you have to protect one another".

What is the point of being in NATO if you are not going to be aligned with the other NATO countries?

imo

 

[keek]

Why doesn't he just pull out of NATO then? I am so tired of him trying to make all the rules. I wonder if the European leaders are getting tired of it also.

"Don't give intelligence to Ukraine". And now ... "just because you are in NATO doesn't mean you have to protect one another".

What is the point of being in NATO if you are not going to be aligned with the other NATO countries?

imo

Why ask why! Interested to see what the others DO have to say and how they react. 'Watch this space'.

 

[Simply Southern]

Why doesn't he just pull out of NATO then? I am so tired of him trying to make all the rules. I wonder if the European leaders are getting tired of it also.

"Don't give intelligence to Ukraine". And now ... "just because you are in NATO doesn't mean you have to protect one another".

What is the point of being in NATO if you are not going to be aligned with the other NATO countries?

imo

I heard him speak to this this afternoon. Members that do not pay their full dues, should not expect full NATO support in the event of an invasion.

I think this is kind of pretty much be the end of NATO. I do agree that there should be some provisions for members that refuse to contribute the full membership fee. If not, there's no incentive to pay the membership fee. Like any organization if you don't pay your fees you don't receive the benefits.

Moo...

 

[acutename]

Why doesn't he just pull out of NATO then? I am so tired of him trying to make all the rules. I wonder if the European leaders are getting tired of it also.

"Don't give intelligence to Ukraine". And now ... "just because you are in NATO doesn't mean you have to protect one another".

What is the point of being in NATO if you are not going to be aligned with the other NATO countries?

imo

Can Trump unilaterally withdraw from NATO?


The United States has maintained longstanding support to NATO. Most recently, the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2024, enacted on December 22, 2023, prohibits the President from unilaterally withdrawing from NATO without approval of a two-third Senate super-majority or an act of Congress.

Withdrawal from NATO - Wikipedia​

 

[SouthAussie]

Can Trump unilaterally withdraw from NATO?


The United States has maintained longstanding support to NATO. Most recently, the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2024, enacted on December 22, 2023, prohibits the President from unilaterally withdrawing from NATO without approval of a two-third Senate super-majority or an act of Congress.

Withdrawal from NATO - Wikipedia​

I'm just getting a bit past the point of caring, is all. Sorry.

imo

 

[Stella123]

"UK company to supply Ukraine with advanced attack drones as deal reachedpublished at 22:22 6 March
22:22 6 March​

The British government has struck a deal with a defence company, allowing Ukraine armed forces to use more advanced attack drones in the Black Sea.

In a Ministry of Defence statement, it says contracts amounting to almost £30m will see Anduril UK supplying Ukraine with drones designed to monitor an area before striking targets that enter it.

Defence Secretary John Healey met staff from the company at its Washington DC facility ahead of the deal.

The deal follows a meeting of world leaders in London last week, when the prime minister and allies agreed to help support Ukraine militarily.

Ukraine’s armed forces will take delivery of the drones, launchers and spare parts over the coming months."

US and Ukraine officials to meet next week to discuss peace plans, Zelensky says

The Ukrainian leader says he will travel to Saudi Arabia where talks on bringing a "lasting" peace will take place.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Stella123]

Trump is going to Saudi Arabia - doesn't know if he'll meet Zelensky.​

​

"Trump: 'Ukraine wants to make a deal'published at 21:24 6 March​

21:24 6 March​

Image source, Getty Images
Donald Trump has shared his thoughts on talks aimed at ending the war in Ukraine.

"I think Ukraine wants to make a deal because they don’t have a choice," he tells reporters in the Oval Office.

"I also think that Russia wants to make a deal because in a certain different way - a different way that only I know - they have no choice either."

As we reported earlier, a US delegation is currently planning to meet Ukrainian officials in Saudi Arabia.

And, the US president was asked whether he would also be visiting the country to meet with Vladimir Putin.

"I don’t know, I can’t tell you," he responds, before adding: "I’m going to Saudi Arabia."

Same link as above post

 

[Stella123]

"

Zelensky postponed February visit to Saudi Arabia over US-Russia talkspublished at 20:44 6 March​

20:44 6 March​

Zelensky's trip to Saudi Arabia on 10 March is a pre-planned visit.

The Ukrainian president was originally scheduled to meet top Saudi officials last month - but he decided to postpone his trip due to the US-Russia talks that took place on 18 February, when Kyiv was not invited.

Zelensky has now confirmed Ukrainian negotiators will hold talks with US officials in Saudi Arabia after his planned meeting with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman next week."

Same link as above post

 

[Stella123]

So according to the above reports, all from that BBC link, both Trump and Zelensky will be in Saudi Arabia, along with their teams. Whether Trump and Zelensky attend the talks is not known. Maybe they will sit in separate hotel rooms with their teams phoning them!

 

[Cedars]

I'm just getting a bit past the point of caring, is all. Sorry.

imo

Take a break, do something you enjoy. It's not up to us, no one cares what any of us think.

 

[Stella123]

220 billion dollars of frozen Russian assets to help Ukraine:

"
Europeans are coming to terms with these harsh realities. The most immediate tasks are to create a self-sufficient defence force and to decide what to do with the $220bn (£170bn) in Russian sovereign assets (out of the $300bn-$350bn immobilised in 2022) now held in European jurisdictions. In June 2024, the G7 agreed to use the interest ($50bn) from these assets to provide financial aid to Ukraine, and the European Commission made the first disbursement of $3bn in January. But with the US likely to end its own financial assistance, this half-measure is no longer sufficient. Europe must go further by seizing all the Russian assets under its control.

We previously argued that these assets should be used to fund Ukraine’s reconstruction, since the damage caused by Russian aggression far exceeds $220bn. But the money is needed even more urgently now. One cannot rebuild a country that is still under attack and partial occupation. Justice and common sense dictate that these resources go to fund Ukraine’s defence."

Europe’s powerful tool against Russia? Seizing its frozen assets | Joseph Stiglitz

If European leaders want to truly support Ukraine they must seize the moment by seizing $220bn in assets

www.theguardian.com

 

[UK Girl]

I heard him speak to this this afternoon. Members that do not pay their full dues, should not expect full NATO support in the event of an invasion.

I think this is kind of pretty much be the end of NATO. I do agree that there should be some provisions for members that refuse to contribute the full membership fee. If not, there's no incentive to pay the membership fee. Like any organization if you don't pay your fees you don't receive the benefits.

Moo...

Trump does not make all the rules for one VC especially when he is not a reliable partner. Not sure why one country leaving would be the end of NATO. Especially when other countries have been working well together.

 

[sunshineray]

Zelensky made the decision to continue the war. The US did not, he was informed he would lose full support if he did not seek a peace agreement. Zelensky does not appear to be concerned about ending the war and bringing the prisoners and the children home. He's running around Europe trying to raise money for weapons about to continue the war. He should be sitting down at a negotiation table trying to get his children and prisoner's back.

No leader in the world has tried to negotiate a peace agreement, until Trump took office. Now the US is the bad guy, because we are trying to force a peace agreement. I know many people just like Trump, I see and read the pure hate in black and white. But I am 100% convinced, there will be a peace deal in Ukraine. Everyone will not be happy, everyone will not get what they want, but the war will end. And many will continue to hate Trump.
I'm sure he would gladly relinquish peace negotiations, if someone will step up to the plate and accept the challenge.

Yes. I want every one of those little children back. I want every prisoner that's being held and tortured by Russia back. But we have to be cordial to Russia to get them to the table to at least talk about an agreement. This is the first effort made by anybody. And the world wants to throw shade at the US. I'm past caring what people think of the United States. All I care about is ending the war, saving souls, trying to get hostages, children and prisoners returned.

A resolution is only worth the paper is written on. It has no legal authority. The UN is notorious for issuing resolutions. The UN has no authority, no international police force, to take any action on any resolution they're right. It's worthless paper. Do you think Russia cares what a bunch of US senators right on a piece of paper? NO
Trump's trying to keep a bridge open, to negotiate. It's a shame some Senators don't have a understanding, skill set or conception about how negotiations work. So many of our elected Congressional Representatives have never worked in the business world. They have no concept how quickly decisions are made, negotiation strategies and techniques, or how to bring a problem to resolution. They do know how to say what the people want to hear to be elected.

MO

What did Russia do when ceasefires were negotiated in the past? They bombed, they broke the agreements. Kind of hard to broker a deal when one side never keeps their word.

Trump calling Zelensky a dictator and the war was his fault was many steps too far. The real life, every day attacks on Ukraine's cities, targeting daycares, schools, churches and even a nuclear plant, all resulting in lives lost and then the abduction of thousands of children. These are not a part of the "business" world skill set. Those are war crimes. To try and approach lasting peace as a business deal is just folly, IMO.

Resolutions are important as is knowing the mindset of people who object to them. All words have meaning, they carry weight because they identify a speaker's heart and mind on many things. A person needs to be careful what they say, for it can define them forever. Senators can and should be held accountable not just for their votes but for their objections to voting.

Contrary to Trumps statements, Ukraine was not the aggressor, it was their land that was invaded, savaged and stolen. Trump thinks the "art of the deal" is going to fix things overnight, lickety-split? That's very unrealistic, especially considering that Putin is a very corrupt individual and can never be trusted. Trump has proven there's no being cordial in his administration. Seems to me it all went south when the US and Russia held talks in Saudi Arabia without Ukraine being part of the process. Must not have gotten the memo.

We're poles apart on how to go about establishing a lasting peace in Ukraine...especially when dealing with the war criminal and murdering dictator, Putin. AJMO

 

[Vern]

Can Trump unilaterally withdraw from NATO?


The United States has maintained longstanding support to NATO. Most recently, the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2024, enacted on December 22, 2023, prohibits the President from unilaterally withdrawing from NATO without approval of a two-third Senate super-majority or an act of Congress.

Withdrawal from NATO - Wikipedia​

He needs a 2/3 vote.

I had a big post in here earlier today outlining a bunch of that.

 

[PommyMommy]

MAR 5, 2025

https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/05/politics/us-pause-intelligence-support-ukraine?Date=20250305&Profile=cnn&utm_content=1741182349&utm_medium=social&utm_source=threads

A top Russian lawmaker, Andrei Kartapolov, in recent days called for the US to stop providing Ukraine with intelligence, underscoring the boon Trump may have already offered Moscow on the battlefield.

“It would be much more important if the Americans stopped giving them with intelligence information, then this would allow us to achieve results more quickly,” Kartapolov said.

One US military official said that the US is now offering fewer surveillance flights to the Ukrainians, as well as less satellite coverage – both of which are essential to Ukraine’s ability to defend its cities against Russian missile attacks.

For some US officials, the decision to limit intelligence sharing with Ukraine not only helps Russia — it is tantamount to a betrayal of Ukraine. The CIA has worked closely with Ukrainian special operations forces since 2014, when Russia first took action to seize control of Ukraine, supporting a separatist conflict in eastern Ukraine and annexing Crimea.

In the early days of the 2022 conflict, prominent Republicans — including now-Secretary of State Marco Rubio — complained that the Biden administration wasn’t sharing intelligence with the Ukrainian military quickly enough.

 

[PommyMommy]

MAR 6, 2025

Institute for the Study of War

Russian President Vladimir Putin and other Kremlin officials explicitly rejected making any concessions in future peace negotiations or accepting any US, European, or Ukrainian peace proposals and the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) rejected

www.understandingwar.org

Key Takeaways:

• Russian President Vladimir Putin and other Kremlin officials explicitly rejected making any concessions in future peace negotiations or accepting any US, European, or Ukrainian peace proposals and the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) rejected the possibility of a negotiated ceasefire on March 6.
• Russian officials will likely take advantage of the suspension of US military aid to and intelligence sharing with Ukraine to spread a longstanding Russian information operation meant to falsely portray Russian victory as inevitable.
• The Kremlin welcomed a Trump administration official's recent comments mischaracterizing Russia's illegal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine as a "proxy war," and Russian media portrayed the statement as an admission that the United States is a participant in the war.
• US and Ukrainian delegations will conduct bilateral meetings in Saudi Arabia next week.
• Ukrainian opposition politicians rejected the possibility of holding elections in Ukraine before the end of the war.
• European countries continue to announce new military assistance packages and other measures to support the Ukrainian military.
• Ukrainian forces recently advanced in the Pokrovsk direction and Russian forces recently advanced in the Kupyansk, Borova, Siversk, Pokrovsk, and Kurakhove directions.
• Russian President Vladimir Putin attempted to assuage Russian fears about conscripts going to war amid continued reports that Russian military units are forcing conscripts to sign contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD).

 

[Stella123]

Re the map above. If the US were supporting Ukraine right now they might just push the Russians back. Ukraine has kept them well back and even pushed out into some areas in Russia. It's encouraging to see such a huge area of Ukraine not occupied. They are keeping the invader out.

It's also scary to see Poland is on the Ukraine border. If Russia did occupy Ukraine, I think Poland and Moldova would be quite worried. JMO MOO