Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #13

[Rush4087]

I am grateful to His Majesty King Philippe of the Belgians for the audience.

We discussed Belgium’s involvement in preparing the first steps toward ending the war. I look forward to His Majesty’s support in facilitating the return of Ukrainian children illegally deported and displaced by Russia.

I thank Belgium for the support throughout the three years of full-scale Russian aggression and for its position on achieving a just and lasting peace in Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897738777155842062

I spoke with Norwegian Prime Minister @jonasgahrstore. I thanked him for today’s unanimous decision by the Norwegian parliament @Stortinget to increase Norway’s aid to Ukraine this year from $3.2 billion to $7.7 billion.

This is a timely and necessary decision that should serve as an example for all our partners. The funds will be partly directed towards weapons production in Ukraine and strengthening our energy security. Thus, Ukraine’s negotiating positions on the path to a just and lasting peace will become even stronger.

I am grateful to Norway for demonstrating responsibility and readiness to increase its contribution to peace and stability in Europe.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897741773969219678

Zelensky is nothing but a fundraiser and salesman. He is very good at both. If he were actually running the war, he wouldn’t be free to zip around The EU, US, and other parts of the world for his little money raising sign up tour meet ‘n greets.

At each one, it’s: Thank you His majesty King Phillippe , or Thank you Prime Minister Gahrstore, or Thank you President Macron, or Thank you Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer who “retains unwavering support for Ukraine”, or Thank you Prime Minister Dick Schoof, or Thank you Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez , “we stand with you”, or Thank you Chancellor Olav Scholz “we must never confuse aggressor and victim” or thank You Union Chief Ursula Von Der Leyden “you’re never alone”, or Thank you Prime Minister Donald Trusk, or Thank you Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, or Thank you Prime Minister Anthony Abanese, or Thank you Union Chief Antonio Costa for telling us that “you will never be alone” and that “you will keep working for us for a just and lasting peace”, and thanks for “proudly supporting the brave people of Ukraine” or Trudeau’s “we will continue to stand with Ukraine and Ukrainians in achieving a just and lasting peace”. Everybody falls in line. Impossible not to virtue signals with everybody else.

It’s all great talk and smiles and hand shakes and slaps on the back. But none of them are right now ready to do anything that they weren't already doing before. As they leave they must be scratching their heads: “did something just change?”

Because Zelensky is wanting you to get your troops over there, now. He wants Crimea back, now. He wants the Russians pushed out, now. He wants the border guarded, now - and forever. Oh, and thanks.

In each meeting, Zelensky cleverly also always thanks them for something they did not say or agree to give him, though it’ll be hard to say you didn’t later: they did not commit to put boots on the ground now, fight Russia now, get Crimea back now, get Donbas back now, and provide lifetime military security for Ukraine at the border, starting, now.

Quite a salesman. Good with the hugs, the hand shakes, the thank you, thank you, thank you’s. Lots of photo ops, saying the right thing, camera’s, dignitaries, next stop. And on and on the man dressed as a ninja turtle goes, collecting endorsements and congratulations and pats on the back - even if he gets no immediate commitment from anybody to do anything other then what they have been doing. Imo Zelensky wants to keep the war going. He’s only a big shot and can wear his uniform when there’s a war on. When it’s over, he’ll go back to being a stand up comic

The leaders don’t carefully parse his statement though or seek clarification on his exact words, because they’re too busy virtue signaling and fitting in. But in effect Zelensky has just thanked them for agreeing to achieve a just and lasting peace for his Ukraine, forever. For those of you in the UK and EU that have military age family members and friends, is that going to be okay?

The Presidents and Premiers and Prime Ministers and Majesties must all leave those meetings shaking their heads, going: “what did I just agree to?” Yes, ‘ol Z is pretty crafty.

Is everybody from every one of those countries above wiling to fight to recover Crimea and Donbas and provide a just and lasting peace for a country like Ukraine (that is not theirs, and not in NATO ) against Russia? This of course would be a world war, NATO vs Russia. Everybody still good with that? Cuz that’s what you just agreed too.

All jmo

 

[Lilibet]

Russian President Vladimir Putin and other Kremlin officials explicitly rejected making any concessions in future peace negotiations or accepting any US, European, or Ukrainian peace proposals and the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) rejected the possibility of a negotiated ceasefire on March 6.

So, who is it that doesn’t want peace?

I did some reading on the ISW link posted by @PommyMommy. One article in particular caught my eye, which I am linking.

Lessons of the Minsk Deal: Breaking the Cycle of Russia's War Against Ukraine

Some peace deals lead to peace, others to more war. The Minsk II deal aimed to end Russia’s limited invasion of Ukraine in 2015 but instead laid the groundwork for the full-scale Russian invasion in 2022. The United States must learn from the Minsk deal or risk a direct Russia-NATO conflict that...

understandingwar.org

It’s written by their Russia expert and discusses the problems with the Minsk II deal and how to avoid them in the next deal. Read it and weep.

“Some peace deals lead to peace, others to more war. The Minsk II deal aimed to end Russia’s limited invasion of Ukraine in 2015 but instead laid the groundwork for the full-scale Russian invasion in 2022. The United States must learn from the Minsk deal or risk a direct Russia-NATO conflict that puts American lives at risk.”

“Another weak deal today would validate Putin’s 2022 full-scale invasion and give Putin hope to gain more over time. Hope for Putin means more war. More war means a larger war: An absolved Russia that bears little or no cost for its invasion will want more and will rebuild its capability to do more. A larger war would mean a higher cost for the United States, risk to American lives, and risk of a catastrophic escalation.

The Trump Administration has a historic opportunity to break Russia’s cycle of overt war and war through “peace” in Ukraine. To do so, the United States must learn the lessons from the Minsk deal:

1. Russia will seek to transfer the responsibility and cost for its war onto someone else’s balance sheet.
2. Putin’s demands are stand-ins for his goals – controlling Ukraine and making the United States bend to Putin’s demands to create a world order that favors Russia.
3. Putin will fight as long as he believes he can outlast the West and Ukraine. Ending the war requires stripping Putin of hope that he can destroy Ukraine as a state in his lifetime — militarily or through a “peace deal.”
4. Russia can accept failure.”

This is a very long and detailed article, but I would encourage anyone who really wants to understand Russia’s intentions to read it. I am saving this article to refer to as the “peace process” plays out.

 

[Lilibet]

Another section from the ISW article I linked above. This explains that Putin is not really after Ukraine’s territory, but their sovereignty.

Lessons of the Minsk Deal: Breaking the Cycle of Russia's War Against Ukraine

Some peace deals lead to peace, others to more war. The Minsk II deal aimed to end Russia’s limited invasion of Ukraine in 2015 but instead laid the groundwork for the full-scale Russian invasion in 2022. The United States must learn from the Minsk deal or risk a direct Russia-NATO conflict that...

understandingwar.org

“Winning in Ukraine for Putin has always meant more than seizing territory, forcing Ukraine into neutrality, or countering NATO.”

“What Putin cares about is control of Ukraine. Kyiv and what Kyiv stands for have been Putin’s goals in Ukraine from the outset. The Kremlin has been working to remove Ukraine’s ability to make free political and foreign policy choices for years. In other words, Ukraine’s sovereignty is Russia’s target. Putin has been explicit in word and action that he does not believe Ukraine is or has a right to be a sovereign state that can choose its alliances.[17]

For the Kremlin, the war in Ukraine is also about a new world order that favors Russia. Putin seeks a world in which he can impose Russia’s will on other countries without any pushback, and the United States is an obstacle to Putin’s vision. The United States helped Ukraine stop Russia from imposing its will militarily. The Kremlin has been investing in trying to diminish America’s will to act - the fastest way for Putin to achieve his goals.[18] NATO is an obstacle too - by being more appealing than Russia to countries that Putin wants to control. Putin has long tried to break NATO’s unity. He also sought to use the invasion of Ukraine to force NATO to abandon its principles, such as the Open Door Policy – an objective Putin still pursues.[19]”
BBM
Trump is, unfortunately, playing into Russia’s hands, as are some Americans. Again, I implore you to read this article.

Link to author’s biography: Institute for the Study of War

 

[branmuffin]

It seems like a good portion of the US has developed a multiple personality disorder over the last couple of weeks. It's a mass event, too. It's an actual psychological disorder. It's characterized by memory gaps, perception and behaviors. It can affect many people and when it affects individuals who have a high profiles in society, there is documented evidence that their perception has been altered drastically. We've seen it in people like Marco Rubio, Lindsay Graham, Thune, Vance, and even Trump. And it isn't just high profile people, it's people you know personally, or even nameless individuals you've conversed with over the years on topics like murder, kidnapping, and wars. It's hard to believe that the same people who advocated for the Ukrainians calling Zelenskyy a hero, or professing their support for Ukraine are now treating them like they are rodents, something to dispatch. It's called cognitive bias. Some people might call it something else but I'll stick to the scientific label.

 

[Vern]

Zelensky is nothing but a fundraiser and salesman. He is very good at both. If he were actually running the war, he wouldn’t be free to zip around The EU, US, and other parts of the world for his little money raising sign up tour meet ‘n greets.

At each one, it’s: Thank you His majesty King Phillippe , or Thank you Prime Minister Gahrstore, or Thank you President Macron, or Thank you Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer who “retains unwavering support for Ukraine”, or Thank you Prime Minister Dick Schoof, or Thank you Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez , “we stand with you”, or Thank you Chancellor Olav Scholz “we must never confuse aggressor and victim” or thank You Union Chief Ursula Von Der Leyden “you’re never alone”, or Thank you Prime Minister Donald Trusk, or Thank you Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, or Thank you Prime Minister Anthony Abanese, or Thank you Union Chief Antonio Costa for telling us that “you will never be alone” and that “you will keep working for us for a just and lasting peace”, and thanks for “proudly supporting the brave people of Ukraine” or Trudeau’s “we will continue to stand with Ukraine and Ukrainians in achieving a just and lasting peace”. Everybody falls in line. Impossible not to virtue signals with everybody else.

It’s all great talk and smiles and hand shakes and slaps on the back. But none of them are right now ready to do anything that they weren't already doing before. As they leave they must be scratching their heads: “did something just change?”

Because Zelensky is wanting you to get your troops over there, now. He wants Crimea back, now. He wants the Russians pushed out, now. He wants the border guarded, now - and forever. Oh, and thanks.

In each meeting, Zelensky cleverly also always thanks them for something they did not say or agree to give him, though it’ll be hard to say you didn’t later: they did not commit to put boots on the ground now, fight Russia now, get Crimea back now, get Donbas back now, and provide lifetime military security for Ukraine at the border, starting, now.

Quite a salesman. Good with the hugs, the hand shakes, the thank you, thank you, thank you’s. Lots of photo ops, saying the right thing, camera’s, dignitaries, next stop. And on and on the man dressed as a ninja turtle goes, collecting endorsements and congratulations and pats on the back - even if he gets no immediate commitment from anybody to do anything other then what they have been doing. Imo Zelensky wants to keep the war going. He’s only a big shot and can wear his uniform when there’s a war on. When it’s over, he’ll go back to being a stand up comic

The leaders don’t carefully parse his statement though or seek clarification on his exact words, because they’re too busy virtue signaling and fitting in. But in effect Zelensky has just thanked them for agreeing to achieve a just and lasting peace for his Ukraine, forever. For those of you in the UK and EU that have military age family members and friends, is that going to be okay?

The Presidents and Premiers and Prime Ministers and Majesties must all leave those meetings shaking their heads, going: “what did I just agree to?” Yes, ‘ol Z is pretty crafty.

Is everybody from every one of those countries above wiling to fight to recover Crimea and Donbas and provide a just and lasting peace for a country like Ukraine (that is not theirs, and not in NATO ) against Russia? This of course would be a world war, NATO vs Russia. Everybody still good with that? Cuz that’s what you just agreed too.

All jmo

I agree.

The United States is the only one in step here. The rest of the free world is wrong. Well, those of us actually left in the free world I guess.

Canada has offered up troops; my son is currently over there training Ukrainian military.

I already served alongside the US on two-way firing ranges in sandboxes. More than once. Lost some friends there. Carried one of them to his plane.

I stand with and for democracy. I am willing to fight and die to protect it.

"Peace" does not exist without security. Just a fact. IMO.

.

 

[SouthAussie]

It seems like a good portion of the US has developed a multiple personality disorder over the last couple of weeks. It's a mass event, too. It's an actual psychological disorder. It's characterized by memory gaps, perception and behaviors.
(RSBM).

Speaking of memory gaps, perception and behaviours, I was reminded of something earlier today. This was 260 days after Russia invaded Ukraine.

Volodymyr Zelensky
2022 TIME Person of the Year

Volodymyr Zelensky Is TIME's 2022 Person of the Year

Volodymyr Zelensky's success as a wartime leader has relied on the fact that courage is contagious

time.com

 

[Marantz4250b]

President Trump is the reason why we are becoming a great nation again. He's only been in office for about six weeks. We, the people, are looking forward to all the things he will accomplish over the next four years.

Another post I'll bookmark so we can compare in four years.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Why doesn't he just pull out of NATO then? I am so tired of him trying to make all the rules. I wonder if the European leaders are getting tired of it also.

"Don't give intelligence to Ukraine". And now ... "just because you are in NATO doesn't mean you have to protect one another".

What is the point of being in NATO if you are not going to be aligned with the other NATO countries?

imo

The problem is that he's actually just gutless and a bully. He doesn't actually have the spine to do anything - he's been back on forth on tariffs that I've lost track of what actually applies now!

He needs to clarify whether he's in NATO or not, quite honestly.

 

[JennieM]

35m ago08.38 GMT

UK has ‘no issues’ with Trump’s Nato challenge, says minister​

Donald Trump’s comment that he would not defend Nato countries that do not spend enough on defence presents “no issues”, a government minister has said.

Asked about Trump’s comments overnight, health minister Stephen Kinnock told Times Radio on Friday that even before Trump took office the US “has been challenging the other Nato members to step up and boost defence capability and be ready to defend our own back yard”.

According to the PA news agency, he added:

I think it’s absolutely right that we are now seeing, particularly through the leadership of our prime minister, the European arm of Nato coming together and meeting that challenge.

So I think there’s no issues really around the challenge that the United States has set for us as European nations, what’s vitally important now is that we step up and do that.”

Asked whether the UK could trust the US, Kinnock said:

Donald Trump has never said that he thinks the United States should leave Nato, he has never said that he doesn’t believe in article 5, and I think that we absolutely have to hold together as an alliance in defence of freedom and democracy and the values that we cherish.”

UK has ‘no issues’ with Trump’s Nato challenge, says minister – UK politics live

Stephen Kinnock responds to US president’s comments that he would not support Nato countries that do not spend enough on defence

www.theguardian.com

 

[JennieM]

8m ago09.06 GMT

Starmer to speak to European allies amid diplomatic push on Ukraine​

Keir Starmer will speak to European leaders on Friday as he presses on with a diplomatic push over Ukraine.

UK has ‘no issues’ with Trump’s Nato challenge, says minister – UK politics live

Stephen Kinnock responds to US president’s comments that he would not support Nato countries that do not spend enough on defence

www.theguardian.com

 

[JennieM]

US is trying to capitulate Ukraine - retired lieutenant colonel tells BBC
​

IMAGE SOURCE, GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
A woman visits a memorial for fallen Ukrainian soldiers in central Kyiv

Glen Grant, a retired British Army lieutenant colonel, has recently been to Kyiv.

He tells BBC Breakfast he sees no chance of a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia any time soon.

"People need to be clear - what the US is trying to do is get Ukraine to capitulate," he says. "To give in to Russia – there is nothing nice about this at all.

"The reason for that is quite simple. Trump is unable to – or perhaps unwilling to – do anything against Russia, but he senses Ukraine is a weak link in the game, so they are going to try and bully Zelensky – even try again to get him to step down and put in a more compliant president, in the same way as Hungary, Slovakia and Bulgaria.

"But I just don't see Zelensky will do that," Grant says.

Wave of Russian strikes kill at least 20 and injures dozens, officials say

Ukraine's President Zelensky urges more sanctions against Russia as he says the strikes show the Kremlin's goals "are unchanged".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JennieM]

Russia targets energy infrastructure in overnight strikes, minister says
​

Ukraine says Russia has launched a fresh wave of attacks on several regions overnight.

Energy Minister German Galushchenko says Russian forces targeted Ukraine's energy and gas infrastructure in "massive missile and drone" attack.

Officials say the port city of Odesa in the south and Kharkiv in the east were subjected to waves of attacks that left energy infrastructure damaged and private homes on fire.

Galushchenko warns that power supplies could be affected and urges people to stay in shelters "as long as the danger continues".

An explosion was heard in Kharkiv at around 06:00 local time (04:00 GMT), according to Ukraine’s public broadcaster Suspilne.

'This is the 17th combined attack on Naftogaz infrastructure'
​

Ukraine's energy company Naftogaz has confirmed an overnight attack on its gas infrastructure – the 17th of its kind, according to the head of the company.

Roman Chumak says there are no reported casualties, but teams are still assessing the damage.

"We are doing and will do everything possible to ensure that the country has gas," Chumak says, praising staff for "their work in extremely difficult conditions".

Wave of Russian strikes kill at least 20 and injures dozens, officials say

Ukraine's President Zelensky urges more sanctions against Russia as he says the strikes show the Kremlin's goals "are unchanged".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JennieM]

In pictures: Firefighters tackle aftermath of strikes in Khark
​

As we've been reporting, Ukraine says Russia carried out a new wave of attacks overnight on several regions, including Odesa in the south and Kharkiv in the east.

Here are the latest pictures from Kharkiv this morning.

IMAGE SOURCE, REUTERS

IMAGE SOURCE, REUTERS

IMAGE SOURCE, REUTERS

IMAGE SOURCE, REUTERS

Wave of Russian strikes kill at least 20 and injures dozens, officials say

Ukraine's President Zelensky urges more sanctions against Russia as he says the strikes show the Kremlin's goals "are unchanged".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JennieM]

Russian attack went on for most of the night
​

Vitaliy Shevchenko
Russia editor, BBC Monitoring

At least 18 people, including four children, have been wounded in the overnight Russian attack, local authorities across Ukraine report. So far, there have been no reports of fatalities.

This was the first such attack since the suspension of US military aid. The energy minister says it targeted Ukraine’s energy infrastructure and gas production facilities.

Here’s a roundup of regional reports listing casualties and damage:

In Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second-largest city, eight people were wounded, and “a critical infrastructure facility” as well as a residential building were damaged, mayor Ihor Terekhov says, external.

Seven people, including two girls aged three and four, were wounded in Slovyansk, eastern Donetsk region, as the town was targeted by two Russian glide bombs, the head of the town’s military administration, Vadym Lyakh, external, says. He adds that about 30 buildings were damaged or destroyed.

Also in Donetsk region, a child was injured in Kramatorsk, the local administration chief, Oleksandr Honcharenko, external, says.

Two people, including a child, were injured outside Myrhorod, central Ukraine, as missile debris fell on their house, the regional administration says, external.

A “production facility” was damaged outside Pryluky, a town east of Kyiv, according to the regional administration chief, Vyacheslav Chaus, external.

In the southern port city of Odesa, energy infrastructure and residential housing were damaged, the local authorities report, external.

In western Ukraine, the local authorities in Ternopil region, external say interruptions to gas supplies to the public are possible after “a critical industrial facility” was targeted. Also in Ukraine’s west, Russia attacked infrastructure in Transcarpathia, but the regional administration says, external air defences intercepted the attack and no damage was caused.

The attack lasted almost all through the night, a Ukrainian volunteer service, external monitoring Russian aerial attacks says.

Wave of Russian strikes kill at least 20 and injures dozens, officials say

Ukraine's President Zelensky urges more sanctions against Russia as he says the strikes show the Kremlin's goals "are unchanged".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Lilibet]

He needs to clarify whether he's in NATO or not, quite honestly.

With Trump it’s best to pretty much ignore what he says and pay attention to his actions. IMO He’s shown very clearly that he wants to withdraw from NATO. Whether he’ll get the 2/3 vote he needs to do that remains to be seen, but it’s doubtful. However, he will continue to act like the U.S. is no longer in NATO. Europe cannot and should not trust him.

 

[SouthAussie]

Turkey, with the second largest army in NATO after the United States, could contribute to a potential peacekeeping mission in Ukraine, a Turkish defence ministry source said on Wednesday.

Turkey ready to send troops to Ukraine if necessary


French President Emmanuel Macron on Thursday hit back at Russia, after the Kremlin warned him not to threaten it with nuclear rhetoric and drew comparisons with Napoleon's failed conquest of Russia.
"I know President Putin well. If he's reacting like that, it's because he knows what I said is true"
"He's making a historical error: Napoleon waged conquests. The only imperialistic power I see in Europe right now is Russia"
"He was probably piqued by the fact we're exposing his game"

Macron hits back at Russian fury, says Kremlin feels exposed

 

[Marantz4250b]

With Trump it’s best to pretty much ignore what he says and pay attention to his actions. IMO He’s shown very clearly that he wants to withdraw from NATO. Whether he’ll get the 2/3 vote he needs to do that remains to be seen, but it’s doubtful. However, he will continue to act like the U.S. is no longer in NATO. Europe cannot and should not trust him.

You are quite correct there.

I do often think that he says a lot of things knowing that he won't ever have to go through with them. Getting the required 2/3 vote won't be easy, I don't think. He can rail and wail as much as he likes whilst being confident that he'll never have to perform on his threats.

MOO, obvs.

 

[SouthAussie]

At an undisclosed location in the Kyiv region, a group of Ukrainians are being put through their paces and thrown into the realistic conditions of Russia’s raging invasion, tasked with planning and executing an assault.

The trainees are all recruits who have explicitly applied to join the battle-hardened Third Separate Assault Brigade, one of the most prestigious and efficient Ukrainian units.

More than 500 people apply to join the Third Assault Brigade every month, attracted by the unit’s battle-hardened reputation and the thorough training process.

“We are gaining momentum every day. More and more people are joining our unit because we show high professionalism both on the front line and at the recruitment stage," Gera told Euronews.

Intense training draws hundreds to Ukraine's Third Assault Brigade

Euronews got rare access to one of Ukraine’s most elite units, the Third Separate Assault Brigade. At an undisclosed location in the Kyiv region, the trainees are being put into the realistic conditions of raging Russia’s invasion and tasked with planning and executing an assault.

www.euronews.com

 

[Mo Thuairim]

You are quite correct there.

I do often think that he says a lot of things knowing that he won't ever have to go through with them. Getting the required 2/3 vote won't be easy, I don't think. He can rail and wail as much as he likes whilst being confident that he'll never have to perform on his threats.

MOO, obvs.

I think if it were Biden who was starting a trade war with Canada, threatening to take control of Greenland, heckling Zelenskyy on camera in the Oval Office, talking about pulling out of NATO, not to mention building a tacky resort in Gaza, the MAGA crowd would not be cheering him on. They would be talking about his mental decline and how he was unfit for office.

 

[Bethan]

Zelensky is nothing but a fundraiser and salesman. He is very good at both. If he were actually running the war, he wouldn’t be free to zip around The EU, US, and other parts of the world for his little money raising sign up tour meet ‘n greets.

At each one, it’s: Thank you His majesty King Phillippe , or Thank you Prime Minister Gahrstore, or Thank you President Macron, or Thank you Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer who “retains unwavering support for Ukraine”, or Thank you Prime Minister Dick Schoof, or Thank you Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez , “we stand with you”, or Thank you Chancellor Olav Scholz “we must never confuse aggressor and victim” or thank You Union Chief Ursula Von Der Leyden “you’re never alone”, or Thank you Prime Minister Donald Trusk, or Thank you Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, or Thank you Prime Minister Anthony Abanese, or Thank you Union Chief Antonio Costa for telling us that “you will never be alone” and that “you will keep working for us for a just and lasting peace”, and thanks for “proudly supporting the brave people of Ukraine” or Trudeau’s “we will continue to stand with Ukraine and Ukrainians in achieving a just and lasting peace”. Everybody falls in line. Impossible not to virtue signals with everybody else.

It’s all great talk and smiles and hand shakes and slaps on the back. But none of them are right now ready to do anything that they weren't already doing before. As they leave they must be scratching their heads: “did something just change?”

Because Zelensky is wanting you to get your troops over there, now. He wants Crimea back, now. He wants the Russians pushed out, now. He wants the border guarded, now - and forever. Oh, and thanks.

In each meeting, Zelensky cleverly also always thanks them for something they did not say or agree to give him, though it’ll be hard to say you didn’t later: they did not commit to put boots on the ground now, fight Russia now, get Crimea back now, get Donbas back now, and provide lifetime military security for Ukraine at the border, starting, now.

Quite a salesman. Good with the hugs, the hand shakes, the thank you, thank you, thank you’s. Lots of photo ops, saying the right thing, camera’s, dignitaries, next stop. And on and on the man dressed as a ninja turtle goes, collecting endorsements and congratulations and pats on the back - even if he gets no immediate commitment from anybody to do anything other then what they have been doing. Imo Zelensky wants to keep the war going. He’s only a big shot and can wear his uniform when there’s a war on. When it’s over, he’ll go back to being a stand up comic

The leaders don’t carefully parse his statement though or seek clarification on his exact words, because they’re too busy virtue signaling and fitting in. But in effect Zelensky has just thanked them for agreeing to achieve a just and lasting peace for his Ukraine, forever. For those of you in the UK and EU that have military age family members and friends, is that going to be okay?

The Presidents and Premiers and Prime Ministers and Majesties must all leave those meetings shaking their heads, going: “what did I just agree to?” Yes, ‘ol Z is pretty crafty.

Is everybody from every one of those countries above wiling to fight to recover Crimea and Donbas and provide a just and lasting peace for a country like Ukraine (that is not theirs, and not in NATO ) against Russia? This of course would be a world war, NATO vs Russia. Everybody still good with that? Cuz that’s what you just agreed too.

All jmo

It is indeed “‘ JUST YOUR OPINION’” & I am pleased that the majority of people on this thread do not agree with you.

I have not posted before as I tend to avoid political matters & out of my depth with ‘political debate’.

I will not enter into ‘clever’ ‘point-scoring’ dialogue here but am compelled to share my own personal experience here in the UK

1) We were all glued to our TV/Radio’s in February 2022, when Russia attacked Ukraine….in tears, watching the dreadful footage of the devastation wreaked on ordinary people. People just like ourselves.

2) Some in the UK opened up their homes to Ukrainian families evacuated from war zones.

A friend, retired & living alone in a good-sized property, did just this & took in two young ladies, each with a child of 5 or 6. They arrived with a backpack each. They had reluctantly left everything behind ( homes, belongings, elderly parents/grandparents/ extended family/pets) but most importantly their beloved husbands and Daddies to try & keep the children safe.

These beautiful people were traumatised….the children particularly unable to sleep & startled by any loud noise after spending weeks in a basement with bombs falling above.

This is something I have SEEN personally, not just read about.

The mothers spoke little English but were within weeks applying for jobs locally, to support themselves and the children enrolled in the village school.
The community rallied round, as funding from the government was typically rather slow to arrive & they had nothing.

My friend fed them, provided a safe space, helped with the necessary admin by driving them to the necessary offices ( some hundreds of miles away), clothed them from Charity shops, helped them learn English. All from her own pocket. She is by no means wealthy.

She did this out of love & compassion for fellow human beings.

3 years later, this Ukrainian family are still with her. Their menfolk are still fighting to defend their country.

They love their country & intend to return to Ukraine & reunite with their loved ones when it is safe to do so.

3) Another chilling experience….when I parked in a supermarket car park ( here in the quiet rural north of England) & realised the car parked alongside was riddled with bullet holes…..

…….In the back was a BABY SEAT…….On the dashboard a small Ukrainian flag.

4) We were again glued to our TV’s, again in tears on February 28th 2025, watching in disbelief the appalling attack on the Ukrainian President in the Oval Office.

USA is no longer a friend or ally to the UK.

We believe that the recent actions of President Trump have brought us all much closer to World War III.

This is MY OPINION