Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #13

[JennieM]

He cut off aid after Zelensky met the King. I don't have the timescale in front of me, but Zelensky has spent all this week saying he respects US and Trump and he wants to achieve a lasting peace and talk. He was expecting for a meeting this Tuesday and it didn't go ahead.

If Trump was really seeking a lasting peace, why didn't he sanction both Ukraine and Russia?

BBM.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Aggression...NO. I'm very happy European countries for stepping up to help him. I'm very happy European countries recognize they must build greater defenses. I'm happy they've opened their coffers to BILLIONS of dollars, providing military aircraft, weaponry and humanitarian aid. All of these actions will make much safer and secure for all the citizens.
Moo...

Oh yeah, all of those actions will help. Just like turning Gaza into a tourist resort is going to make everyone involved pack up and shut down that conflict.

 

[Sundog]

AJMO

Glad you added that acknowledgement.

The President's speech before the joint session of Congress was amazing, especially after a mere 6 weeks in office. His update on the work of the new admnistration was consistent with the mandate he received from the American people in the November 2024 election.

It's understandable that people who didn't vote for the current incumbent in any administration will be unhappy. Many of us were in that situation when we had to suffer through the humiliation and diaster of the 46th administration.

AJMO

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

He met with the King on Saturday or Sunday. Trump and the vast majority of Americans I think highly of the king. The aid wasn't cut off till late Tuesday night, after his address to Congress.

Ukraine has nothing to sanction. Russia has an opportunity to stop aggressive Force or Trump will sanction him. I don't believe all these sanctions are doing any good. Russia has seemed to survive the sanctions and work around them, by dealing with foreign adversaries.

The function certainly haven't worked in the European country. Many are continuing to buy gas directly from Russia.
Moo

Trump thinks highly of the king because he wants to be and thinks he is king. JMO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Did you know that alienating yourself from all your allies and starting a trade war with the nations closest to your border is making this a great country? Blaming fentanyl coming in on Canada even though a miniscule amount even comes through that way and the majority of it comes from China.

@Elliot_Alderson ..... Elliott!!!! Not me you are responding to!!!!!

I am withya totally on the ridiculous blaming of Canada ...

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Glad you added that acknowledgement.

The President's speech before the joint session of Congress was amazing, especially after a mere 6 weeks in office. His update on the work of the new admnistration was consistent with the mandate he received from the American people in the November 2024 election.

It's understandable that people who didn't vote for the current incumbent in any administration will be unhappy. Many of us were in that situation when we had to suffer through the humiliation and diaster of the 46th administration.

AJMO

LOL hope you dont have any relatives that depend on any kind of social service or you're willing to help them when their medicaid and SSI are taken away. JMO

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

@Elliot_Alderson ..... Elliott!!!! Not me you are responding to!!!!!

I am withya totally on the ridiculous blaming of Canada ...

Sorry for the confusion, I was trying to piggyback off your post, not argue against it.

 

[Himako14]

Dbm

 

[Simply Southern]

Can you please stop harking back to "that video". People view these things with their own unconscious bias and Zelensky has said numerous times since then that he wants peace.

You can't possibly blame Zelensky for the actions Trump is taking now. That is solely on Trump. How he handles things. He handled the "deal" badly (it should never have been televised unless already signed) and now he is doing anything but achieving peace - he is actively helping Russia. JMO MOO

I can and do blame Zelensky. Zelensky insisted on a White House visit. Trump didn't want it. The president of France called and ask Trump to host him. The day it was announced I said on the thread Zelensky what's going to put on a show.

Zelensky was warned by Secretary of the department of State, VP Vance , congressional representatives, Trump and I'm bet if the truth is known the PM UK and President France.

He's a showman, hard headed. He played his cards in the Oval office and he lost, just like all those that listed above told him. As we all know, there are consequences to actions. He put he Ukrainian people in grave danger.

If he didn't want to sign the deal, he should have not come to the US. You shouldn't have got on X and the media and announce he was coming to the US and signing the deal. He went head to head with Trump. We all know and have seen how that works out.

This is an unwinnable war for Ukraine.

Moo

 

[Rolypolyoly]

He's not being forced. The UK and many European countries are stepping up to the plate with billions of dollars. He can continue the war. The US made the decision we're no longer going to contribute.

He's not working 24/7 for his country? If he was, he'd be trying to figure out how to restore their mapping communication system. He's out jetting all over the world, being entertained by Nation leaders. He's eating really good food, sleeping in a soft warm bed, he's getting hugs, pats on the back, having meaningful conversation. All while his people are on the front line, souls being lost every day.

There is no doubt, DOD Secretary Hegseth would slap on a uniform and pick up a weapon to defend our country. I bet VP Vance would be right by his side, armed and ready. They have defended our country before and willing to do it again.

Moo...

And what about their commander in chief? Would he be slapping on a uniform and taking up arms to defend his country? There's a first time for everything I suppose

 

[JennieM]

Ukraine ready for peace but not for any price, Ukrainian MP tells BBC​

We've also hears from Yehor Cherniev - Ukrainian MP and chairman of the Nato Ukrainian Delegation - who says Ukraine is "ready for peace, but not just for any price".

Speaking to the BBC, he says: "We should never forget who is the aggressor and who is the victim, its unfair to expect the victim to surrender and give up."

On Trump's assertion that Russia holds the cards in the war, Cherniev responds: "We have been fighting for three years against a huge country - and, so, we have some cards. We can protect ourselves."

He adds that the US is Ukraine's strategic partner and his country is working to build the relationship, to reach a peace deal.

Wave of Russian strikes kill at least 20 and injures dozens, officials say

Ukraine's President Zelensky urges more sanctions against Russia as he says the strikes show the Kremlin's goals "are unchanged".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Sundog]

LOL hope you dont have any relatives that depend on any kind of social service or you're willing to help them when their medicaid and SSI are taken away. JMO

Not only does the current administration plan to save SSI, but is advocating for removing taxes on SSI, which will be an incredible help to our senior citizens and others dependent on SSI. The President has been very clear that any cuts or changes to SSI will not happen under his administration. And yet the false narratives on U.S. msm continue to state this, I guess trying to scare the American people.

 

[Himako14]

The US is not isolated. Rather than relying solely on our European allies, the US has spent years developing strong relationships, allies with others. Countries that have strong military capabilities.

European countries have involved into an isolated island. They bicker among themselves, and publicly announced their military weaknesses and failure to invest in defense. They've not developed strong relationships with non European countries.

The United States is a world leader. The United States has the most nuclear weapons. The United States has the most powerful army on Earth.

Most countries value a relationship with the United States. Zelensky did not.

List of states with nuclear weapons - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Moo

Yeah, per the link you shared Russia has 536 more nuclear weapons than the US. Russia has 5580 and the US has 5044.

 

[keek]

Trump thinks highly of the king because he wants to be and thinks he is king. JMO

THAT is the only reason.

 

[Simply Southern]

"Let Russia take your land and you agree to an agreement with them even though they have gone back and not kept their word on previous peace agreements" is Trump offering him a pathway to peace.

He's already lost the land. He doesn't have to take any deal. He can fight till the last man standing.
Moo

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Thank you to all for the general reminders of conduct of leaders. And in particular with regard to veterans of service. It is important to remember those individuals that have given. As some often say of war veterans: ‘all gave some…… and some gave all.’

Unfortunately these past reference articles come to mind while pondering this. Online The Atlantic September 3, 2020 article by Jeffrey Goldberg entitled ‘Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’’:

Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’

The president has repeatedly disparaged the intelligence of service members, and asked that wounded veterans be kept out of military parades, multiple sources tell The Atlantic.

www.theatlantic.com

Associated Press (AP) online August 29, 2024 article by Michelle L. Price and Meg Kinnard entitled ‘Trump has history sparking outrage for incidents around veterans even as military voters backed him’:

Trump has history sparking outrage for incidents around veterans even as military voters backed him

The reported altercation at Arlington National Cemetery involving former President Donald Trump’s staff has come less than two weeks after Trump sparked outrage after he seemed to dismiss the Medal of Honor, the military’s highest decoration for service members.

apnews.com

Some might be paywall and I do not have a subscription for either. There are other similar references this subject. MOO

 

[Arkay]

Zelensky is 100% responsible. Trump offered him the pathway to peace

SS, you know that I have respect for you on another international matter in which we both agree.

But in this case I absolutely cannot agree with your interpretations.

Trump offered Zelenskyy a pathway to surrender his country to a dictator. Not peace with retention of Ukraine as an independent country, but by being absorbed into Russia with Ukraine consigned to history.

This is all on Zelensky. He made the choice this that day. If you go back and look at the video, his own staff bowed their heads, close their eyes and pinch their noses, in shame.

No, I disagree. Zelenskyy’s staff was not ashamed—-they were mortified. They reacted this way because they were incredulous that the president of the U.S., a country allied with Ukraine, would play to the cameras to show off how he could bully the president of a country that is not in a position to challenge the U.S. president.

This is Trump at his highest level of displaying that he’s a tough guy, consequences be damned. He despises Zelenskyy because their phone call during Trump’s first administration led to his first impeachment.

He’s bullying Zelenskyy because he cannot forget that, although it was Congress who impeached him.

Trump and the US are on cordial terms with Putin

Yes, but why? It would be strategic if Trump were cordial to Putin in order to coax him into retreating from his decimation of a democratic, independent nation. THAT would be a signal of America standing with democratic allies.

Judging by years of Trump’s public comments, though, he actually admires Putin for being a dictator who’s been in office for decades. He has praised Putin unabashedly. He believes they are buddies while the reality is he is Putin’s marionette.

The same as Trump saying he and Kim Jong-Un “fell in love.” They both played to Trump’s vanity.

Trump is “cordial” to Putin because he is sucking up to him.

Trump’s father, whom I knew, was a very very tough guy, difficult to please, and in my layperson’s opinion that factors into how he grovels at the feet of dictators.

JUST MY OPINION.

 

[JennieM]

Oh yeah, all of those actions will help. Just like turning Gaza into a tourist resort is going to make everyone involved pack up and shut down that conflict.

He is only thinking of PEACE.

 

[Simply Southern]

"A manly man". Clearly he has some physical appeal to some women but being powerful isn't necessarily manly (or right). Also, do you not see Zelensky as a "manly man"? Protecting his country.

"Even before he became president, Mr Trump had a history of controversial comments about women. His comments in a 2005 Access Hollywood tape about grabbing women "by the pussy" are perhaps the most notorious, and made headlines in 2016.

Debbie Walsh, director of the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutger's University, says these latest remarks are part of a pattern.

"The kind of things that he said about Hillary Clinton, Carly Fiorina, Elizabeth Warren, Heidi Cruz - the list goes on - he talks about women, any prominent, powerful woman, in the most demeaning of ways, trivialising them."

How Trump talks about women - and does it matter?

Donald Trump has a history of controversial comments about women, but are his attacks really gendered?

www.bbc.co.uk

And we still elected him by overwhelming majority.

 

[UK Girl]

The concern is that Zelensky will sabotage or blindside the negotiations, so it is best that negotiations are left to those in Ukraine who can handle it and stay focused. He can certainly be advising his team, one would expect that, but it is best if he stays away at this stage so as not to alienate others in the negotiations, which he is good at.

Ad hominen attacks against leaders you don't like may make people feel better in the moment, but they aren't useful in solving problems that our leaders are working to solve, the honorable President of the United States, Vice President Vance, and the other members of the negotiation team. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but it is only that, your opinion. MOO.

Yeah? really? "Ad hominen attacks against leaders you don't like may make people feel better in the moment, but they aren't useful in solving problems that our leaders are working to solve, the honorable President of the United States, Vice President Vance, and the other members of the negotiation team. " had the two Americans in high office remembered that last week we would not be where we are NOW