Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #14

[PommyMommy]

Zelenskyy ‘fully committed’ to constructive dialogue with US after Trump defends Putin – as it happened

Zelenskyy’s statement comes after another significant overnight attack from Russia

www.theguardian.com

3m ago10.30 EST
Russia launched a devastating attack on Ukraine on Saturday, killing at least 14 people and injuring dozens more, hours after Donald Trump defended Vladimir Putin and said the Kremlin leader was “doing what anybody would do”.

Two ballistic missiles hit the centre of Dobropillia in the eastern Donetsk region. Fire engulfed a five-storey apartment building. As emergency services arrived, Russia launched another strike on the same area. Eleven civilians were killed, with five children among the 30 injured.

Russia’s relentless bombardment of Ukrainian cities has intensified after a torrid week in which Trump has pulled the plug on intelligence sharing with Ukraine and halted the supply of US weapons.

These hostile moves mean the alarm system that warns Ukrainian civilians of incoming enemy missiles is less effective. Asked if Putin was taking advantage of US aid pauses, Trump on Friday acknowledged Ukraine was experiencing a “tremendous pounding”.

European leaders suggested the US president was complicit in the latest devastation.

 

[Simply Southern]

Can I just ask why you think the democratically elected president of a country that’s been invaded by his neighboring country wouldn’t need to go be part of peace negotiations about his own country? If the US was at war, would you say that DJT wouldn’t need to go be apart of any sort negotiations? I’m truly trying to understand the logic here because I do not get the attitude that a leader should not attend meetings regarding his own country.

Because it's been repeatedly announced in the media. Zelensky himself has stated he will not be a part of the negotiation. Trump's not going to be at the negotiation table. Putin is not going to be at the negotiation table. Each party has a team that will negotiate on behalf of the country.

This is the initial meet and greet, lay out what each side wants, layout what they will not accept. They'll either be phone or in person communications back and forth to work out the differences. Both parties will need to make concessions to achieve an agreement, otherwise the war continues.

It's easier to negotiate when you're not dealing with extremely volatile team members. If and when, an agreement is reached, there may be a joint press conference or at least a photo op of the signing.

Moo

 

[UK Girl]

Meh; I didn't like Biden either. Even commented on his lack of mental accuity as not fit.

Precisely because I don't limit my knowledge to what one side or the other puts out. I call it 'research' - I take it upon myself to inform myself. Lest one simply parrot a paradigm's talking points.

Anything else?

.

The problem is IMO Trumps mental accuity is no better and in fact aided by Vance is just dangerous

 

[Simply Southern]

Meh; I didn't like Biden either. Even commented on his lack of mental accuity as not fit.

Precisely because I don't limit my knowledge to what one side or the other puts out. I call it 'research' - I take it upon myself to inform myself. Lest one simply parrot a paradigm's talking points.

Anything else?

.

Thanks for sharing. I respect your opinion, even when we disagree. I know you put a lot of time and energy into research and are extremely well versed in many subjects. I've learned a great deal about our mutual interest from you.

I guess my comment was directed more to the masses, it just happened to fall with your post.

Moo...

 

[UK Girl]

Because it's been repeatedly announced in the media. Zelensky himself has stated he will not be a part of the negotiation. Trump's not going to be at the negotiation table. Putin is not going to be at the negotiation table. Each party has a team that will negotiate on behalf of the country.

This is the initial meet and greet, lay out what each side wants, layout what they will not accept. They'll either be phone or in person communications back and forth to work out the differences. Both parties will need to make concessions to achieve an agreement, otherwise the war continues.

It's easier to negotiate when you're not dealing with extremely volatile team members. If and when, an agreement is reached, there may be a joint press conference or at least a photo op of the signing.

Moo

Tbh then without Donald being there they wont have to worry about extremely volatile members. Good job all around Phew

 

[Stella123]

Zelenskyy ‘fully committed’ to constructive dialogue with US after Trump defends Putin – as it happened

Zelenskyy’s statement comes after another significant overnight attack from Russia

www.theguardian.com

3m ago10.30 EST
Russia launched a devastating attack on Ukraine on Saturday, killing at least 14 people and injuring dozens more, hours after Donald Trump defended Vladimir Putin and said the Kremlin leader was “doing what anybody would do”.

Two ballistic missiles hit the centre of Dobropillia in the eastern Donetsk region. Fire engulfed a five-storey apartment building. As emergency services arrived, Russia launched another strike on the same area. Eleven civilians were killed, with five children among the 30 injured.

Russia’s relentless bombardment of Ukrainian cities has intensified after a torrid week in which Trump has pulled the plug on intelligence sharing with Ukraine and halted the supply of US weapons.

These hostile moves mean the alarm system that warns Ukrainian civilians of incoming enemy missiles is less effective. Asked if Putin was taking advantage of US aid pauses, Trump on Friday acknowledged Ukraine was experiencing a “tremendous pounding”.

European leaders suggested the US president was complicit in the latest devastation.

Indeed he is complicit. It's heartbreaking thinking that at this very moment, all those civilians are being bombarded and such a massive contstant attack on Ukraine, when their intelligence and defence information has been removed. The intelligence could have helped the warning sirens go off sooner.

So much suffering going on in Ukraine right now. MOO

 

[Vern]

Trump played into Putin's hands

Russian and North Korean forces stormed Sudzha, and street battles are underway. This occurred after Trump’s decision to cut off Ukraine’s access to American satellite and intelligence support, leaving Ukrainian forces in a disadvantaged position.

The Russian Ministry of Defense reports that Russian troops entered Sudzha from the side of Kurilovka, trapping around 2,000 Ukrainian soldiers in the city. In total, approximately 6,300 Ukrainian servicemen are encircled. Up to 10,000 Ukrainian Defense Forces personnel may be in the Sudzha district, with no communication with their command.

According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, Russian forces have advanced in several nearby areas, including Malaya Loknya, Basovka, and in the direction of Kazachya Loknya. The Ministry also confirmed the liberation of several settlements in the Kursk region. Sudzha is almost completely surrounded.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898332931963142555

Ukraine considers Kursk withdrawal amid fears of encirclement of 10,000 troops.

Ukraine's forces are considering a withdrawal from Kursk, with 10,000 Ukrainian troops at risk of encirclement after Russia broke through key defense lines and disrupted supply chains, The Telegraph reported.
https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-considers-kursk-withdrawal-amid-fears-of-encirclement-of-10-000-troops-telegraph-reports/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898309602686484649

And with that, "the very public announcement", instead of doing so behind closed doors [diplomaticly] that Ukraine was wide open for the taking (now unequipped, no sats, no data, no int), he may as well cancel the Saudi trip. Bloody hands.

His Nobel Peace Prize circled down the toilet quite sometime ago. Betcha that someone will still nominate him though. Good luck with that.

Warhawks and those that support the Russian Bear being what they are.

Slava Ukraini

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana​

 

[sapphire blue]

‘Washington has become the court of Nero: an incendiary emperor, submissive courtiers, and a buffoon on ketamine tasked with purging the civil service.

This is a tragedy for the free world, but it’s first and foremost a tragedy for the United States. [President Donald] Trump’s message is that being his ally serves no purpose, because he will not defend you, he will impose more tariffs on you than on his enemies, and he will threaten to seize your territories, while supporting the dictators who invade you.’

A very astute assessment by French senator Claude Malhuret

Trump Is Nero While Washington Burns

‘Trump’s message is that being his ally serves no purpose, because he will not defend you.’

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Simply Southern]

It's sad isn't it. The White House has become a very negative symbol to the world - it's the lion's den. JMO

I respectfully disagree. Our secretary of defense hosted the UK military leaders this week. It was a beautiful welcome ceremony. All our troops all decked out, the band playing, we rolled out the red carpet, literally. They did give do a short gaggle from meeting. Many in uniform.

Leaders around the world are in and out of the White House all week long. Many asking for an invite. Everyday or every other day, Trump, or a cabinet member is hosting a foreign dignitary. We've not seen this over the past four years. Our relationships are stronger than they've been in years. Trump is actively communicating with world leaders.

The press even commented, they can barely keep up with Trump. Trump is very transparent. He gaggles with the press almost daily and on Air Force One trip.

Moo

 

[Stella123]

I am sure Germany is not the only country to be infiltrated by Russians JMO. I've bolded the bit below about Germany being the second biggest weapons supplier. So Russia is targetting the countries who supply the most weapons to Ukraine - JMO. It's how they operate - infiltration MOO​

​

Russia-linked propaganda campaign pushes to undercut German support for Ukraine​

"Details of the Moscow-linked propaganda operation come as German intelligence officials have reported an increase in Russian-sponsored espionage and sabotage and established a task force to fend off attempts by foreign states to influence a national election this month. Germany is Ukraine's second-biggest weapons supplier after the United States."

"Reuters reporting reveals how a network of people, some with links to the Russian state, pushed the Kremlin’s agenda in Germany. A key message of the Children of War campaign behind the exhibit is that the West should stop arming Ukraine."

"The campaign’s supporters also include a Russian news outlet run by a retired colonel in the GRU – Russia’s foreign military intelligence service – that promoted the Alley of Angels exhibit."

"And the European intelligence sources who shared the documents with Reuters named the network’s Moscow handler as a current GRU military intelligence officer named Vitaly Konovalov. Reuters independently identified a man of the same name and birthdate in Russian tax and phone records, which list his work location as a building that is part of the GRU headquarters in Moscow."

"Since its 2022 launch, the photo exhibit has appeared in cities across Germany. It has drawn the attention of representatives of the far-right anti-immigration party Alternative for Germany (AfD), which favors closer ties with Moscow."

"

‘DESTABILIZING GERMAN POLITICS’​

As Walter’s Children of War campaign unfolded, Moscow was receiving progress reports on it, according to the two European intelligence sources. The recipient, they said, was current GRU officer Konovalov.
The European sources shared with Reuters what appear to be four progress reports and a planning document that cover events between spring 2023 and January 2024. The reports are unsigned; Reuters couldn’t determine who wrote them or how they were transmitted. They describe how unidentified activists involved in the campaign supplied banners, formulated slogans and contributed in other ways to political demonstrations in Germany."


The link is behind a paywall. Archived link at the bottom

Russia-linked propaganda campaign pushes to undercut German support for Ukraine

Behind a traveling photo exhibit in Germany about the suffering of children in the Russia-Ukraine war is a network connected to Moscow.

www.reuters.com

https://archive.ph/J5KKP

 

[Stella123]

Uk media link - this is how Trump is perceived outside the US btw JMO​

Russia launches devastating attack on Ukraine after Trump’s defence of Putin​

"Russia launched a devastating attack on Ukraine on Saturday, killing at least 14 people and injuring dozens more, hours after Donald Trump defended Vladimir Putin and said the Kremlin leader was “doing what anybody would do”.

Two ballistic missiles hit the centre of Dobropillia in the eastern Donetsk region. Fire engulfed a five-storey apartment building. As emergency services arrived, Russia launched another strike on the same area. Eleven civilians were killed, with five children among the 30 injured.

Russia launches devastating attack on Ukraine after Trump’s defence of Putin

Latest attacks came hours after Donald Trump said Vladimir Putin was ‘doing what anybody would do’

www.theguardian.com

 

[sapphire blue]

I respectfully disagree. Our secretary of defense hosted the UK military leaders this week. It was a beautiful welcome ceremony. All our troops all decked out, the band playing, we rolled out the red carpet, literally. They did give do a short gaggle from meeting. Many in uniform.

Leaders around the world are in and out of the White House all week long. Many asking for an invite. Everyday or every other day, Trump, or a cabinet member is hosting a foreign dignitary. We've not seen this over the past four years.

The press even commented, they can barely keep up with Trump. Trump is very transparent. He gaggles with the press almost daily and on Air Force One trip.

Moo

Leaders being in and out of the White House is nothing new, it’s not an indication of the current very real worldwide disgust towards trump.

You’ve not seen leaders visiting over the last four years? The reality is you were not being constantly bombarded with the constant attention seeking announcements by trump

 

[Niner]

If we fail to learn from history we are doomed to repeat it. Anyone remember when allies let Poland fall to cease hostilities and appease Germany. Remind me what happened after that? World peace in your reality?

If Ukraine falls Russia will be emboldened, which country will be next domino set to fall?

And THAT is what I am afraid of... I am only 266 km - about 166 miles from the Russian border. How long would it take for this f'kng army to arrive in my city of Riga??!!

I will have to flee like my parents did in 1944....

 

[sapphire blue]

And THAT is what I am afraid of... I am only 266 km - about 166 miles from the Russian border. How long would it take for this f'kng army to arrive in my city of Riga??!!

I will have to flee like my parents did in 1944....

It is what worries me. I hope and pray that it doesn’t come to that.

 

[Stella123]

What will it take for a former president to speak out against Trump?​

"
The presidents’ club has its own etiquette, however. The five men have gathered twice recently, first at the Washington national cathedral for Jimmy Carter’s state funeral, where Obama and Trump were seen conversing and even sharing a joke. Then they reunited at Trump’s inauguration, where Biden was forced to listen to his presidency being described as “a horrible betrayal”.

Since then all the ex-presidents have resisted the temptation to stage a significant intervention. Sabato believes that one factor is an awareness that Trump – and his vituperative supporters – would be sure to strike back, including at family members such as Hillary Clinton, a former first lady and secretary of state who ran against Trump in the 2016 election.

“Bill Clinton is close to 80 and he’s been attacked a lot in his lifetime,” Sabato said. “I’m not sure he wants any more of it and then there’s Hillary – he has to realise that Trump would go after her too. With Obama, the more I think about it, the more I believe that little friendly chat at Jimmy Carter’s funeral either was part of Obama’s plan or, once it happened, he decided to capitalise on it and keep his mouth shut so that he wouldn’t be the target again.”

I get it. But I think they have an obligation to do more

Larry Sabato

What will it take for a former president to speak out against Trump?

The silence from former occupants of the Oval Office has been deafening as the incumbent cuts a destructive path

www.theguardian.com

 

[Simply Southern]

It is HIS country in the war so does involve him. Why is Trump going?

Trump is not going. I was referring to Zelenskyy. He's going to visit with the Prince, but he's not a part of the negotiation team.

Negotiation teams have a special skill set. They remain calm, use decorum, respectful to all, they don't insult, have a clear understanding it's a give and take. They will collect information from all parties, return to their leaders, present information, discuss what is acceptable and unacceptable and go back to the negotiation table. Many times it is better to keep negotiations in private. Once the media learns of detail discussion, negotiations can quickly be derailed.

Highly emotional individuals are not necessarily good negotiators, although they are good at other things.
Moo

 

[PommyMommy]

New Threat to US & South Korea

North Korea has unveiled its under-construction nuclear-powered submarine, which could pose a serious threat to the security of the US and South Korea. The submarine, with a displacement of 6,000-7,000 tons and armed with nuclear missiles, will be capable of launching missiles directly from beneath the water, making it nearly invisible to adversaries. While Kim Jong Un is actively developing such high-tech weapons, his soldiers continue to gain combat experience in Ukraine, supporting Russia in its military operations.

There is an opinion that Russia may have provided North Korea with the necessary technologies to build the nuclear reactor.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898398569326891150

 

[Stella123]

Being Putin’s stooge won’t win Trump a peace prize. The Order of Lenin, though, is in the bag​

Being Putin’s stooge won’t win Trump a peace prize. The Order of Lenin, though, is in the bag | Simon Tisdall

The strange warmth between the leaders has sent a chill globally at the prospect of a troika of authoritarian states

www.theguardian.com

 

[Stella123]

Trump is not going. I was referring to Zelenskyy, he's going to visit with he Prince, but he's not a part of the negotiation team.

Negotiation teams have a special skill set. They remain calm, use decorum, respectful to all, they don't insult, have a clear understanding it's a give and take. They will collect information from all parties, return to their leaders, present information, discuss what is acceptable and unacceptable and go back to the negotiation table. Many times it is better to keep negotiations in private. Once the media learns of detail discussion, negotiations can quickly be derailed.

Highly emotional individuals are not necessarily good negotiators, although they are good at other things.
Moo

"Highly emotional individuals are not necessarily good negotiators"

You mean Trump

 

[sapphire blue]

Being Putin’s stooge won’t win Trump a peace prize. The Order of Lenin, though, is in the bag​

Being Putin’s stooge won’t win Trump a peace prize. The Order of Lenin, though, is in the bag | Simon Tisdall

The strange warmth between the leaders has sent a chill globally at the prospect of a troika of authoritarian states

www.theguardian.com

Summed up well

‘If Trump is not Russia’s stooge, what explains his epic volte-face? Apologists offer several excuses. One is that Ukraine is not America’s problem. Nonsense. Unprovoked armed aggression against a sovereign democratic state is every free nation’s problem. Another is that the US should not have to fight Europe’s wars. Answer: it doesn’t. It fights its own wars on other people’s territory, out of self-interest. It always has.’