Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #14

[Stella123]

It's great! (The article from the George Bush Center) It needs American voices and authority to speak out more! JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

They (Europe) could take the bull by the horns and start their own peace negotiations. Are they that dependent on the US? Too much finger pointing and not enough solutions. imo

edited to clarify

You may not be aware of the nations that have been involved in peace talks over the last 3 years.

At least several nations. One European example ... Denmark offered in May 2023 to hold a summit to find peace.

The first peace talk happened 4 days after Russia invaded Ukraine.
Second round - 5 days later
Third round - 4 days later
Fourth round - 7 days later

..... and on and on. Many rounds of peace talks.

Peace negotiations in the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

imo

 

[Stella123]

Thank you for that link - which reminds us that the first set of talks were apparently close to agreement until May 2022 but then failed because of the Bucha Massacre.

So thank you for that reminder of just what Russia can do

The small town of Bucha was about to be liberated JMO

"Bucha and close-by neighbourhood of Irpin presented to the world the first sight of the sheer brutality of the Russian invasion. The worst crimes against humanity – mass rape, mass murder, torture and summary execution were all employed as tactics against civilians."

"And it was only after Ukrainian defence repelled Russians and liberated Bucha in March 2022 that the grisly fate of hundreds of civilians became apparent."

"Around 509 people were murdered. Dozens and dozens of bodies – hands tied with cable ties and blindfolded were strewn across the streets and parks of Bucha."

Women reported being raped and gang raped by Russian soldiers."

Very difficult to continue peace talks after that JMO. Huge atrocities.

Residents in Bucha remember massacre two years on

Over 1,000 people were killed by Russian forces in the town before it was liberated on 31st March 2022. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

 

[branmuffin]

That is a fascinating map video thank you I do think the Russian aim is ethnic cleansing. They are currently attempting genocide and it has been reported over the years in a number of places, how Russia imposes "Russianisation" and forced Russian views. Russia is currently doing this with the abducted children - aka brainwashing. JMO

It is more than just wanting the land and a bigger Russia back. MOO

Fact Sheet: The Kremlin's Occupation Playbook: Coerced Russification and Ethnic Cleansing in Occupied Ukraine​

Institute for the Study of War

Russia’s war in Ukraine is a war for people, not just land. The lives, freedom, and identities of nearly five million Ukrainians currently under Russian occupation and the nearly five million more whom the Kremlin has illegally deported to Russia, as w

www.understandingwar.org

Putin believes that Crimea is Russian. You don't kill your countrymen if they are 'imprisoned' in a country not of their choosing. He's taking that position - Crimeans want to be part of Russia - based on the results of referendum that asked Crimea whether they believed they were part of Russia. The referendum was disseminated after Russia invaded Crimea. And after Putin passported every citizen of Crimea as being a Russian citizen. The phrase 'past performance is an indicator of future results' certainly must have resonated with the citizens of Crimea eg. mass murder, imprisonment, shipped to the Gulag, etc for anyone who bucks the system, criticizes the political party, or engages in protests, decided to keep their mouths shut and voted for their survival not their political leanings.

 

[Stella123]

A further quote from that link above about the Bucha massacre

"Countless photos of decaying remains of dead fathers, sons, mothers, children are now formal documentation for future cases against Russian soldiers, commanders at the International Criminal Court in the Hague."

And this is why Putin is wanted for arrest as a war criminal JMO

This Eurpean Commission article goes on to explain the tactics Russia used afterwards to deny the Bucha massacre. These included:

1 Denying and blaming others, with stories bordering on crazy fantasies
2 Saying anything and everything very loudly and being contradictory
3 Making up conspiracy theories
4 Lies and disinformation

Who do those tactics that remind you of? JMO

The Bucha massacre: mapping a year of Kremlin denial

In early April 2022, news emerged that Russian military forces had killed scores of civilians in the Ukrainian town of Bucha. Russian propaganda kicked in with a spree of lies about the massacre. Over time, we have seen a new generation of falsehoods arise.

ireland.representation.ec.europa.eu

 

[PommyMommy]

.@_FriedrichMerz, leader of Germany's CDU & Chancellor-in-waiting, greeted Ukrainian women on International Women's Day 2025:

"On International Women's Day, we honor the women in Ukraine who risk their lives for peace in Europe. Whether on the front lines, in hospitals, or fleeing violence and destruction. They fight at the front, provide life-saving aid as doctors and medics, organize resistance, or keep infrastructure running in destroyed cities.

Mothers who lose their children, women whose husbands defend the country's territorial borders, or girls who must grow up without parents—the suffering, sacrifice, and hardships that women and girls in Ukraine must endure daily cannot be measured against anything. Their courage and strength are unprecedented.

Now more than ever: We stand with Ukraine. We must do everything to support Ukraine in its fight against the Russian aggressor. We must do everything to defend their freedom, but also our own. For their struggle is all of our struggle for a world where freedom and justice are non-negotiable.

"Merz has been criticized for insufficient female representation in his party leadership, but today he chose to highlight Ukrainian women's courage in the ongoing war. Last December, just days before visiting Kyiv, he reaffirmed Germany's commitment that "Ukraine must win" in its fight against Russian aggression.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898496922857406476

 

[PommyMommy]

Today, all day long, work continued in the city of Dobropillya, the Donetsk region, following a Russian strike. It was one of the most brutal attacks, a combined strike carefully planned to cause maximum damage. Missiles, along with Shahed drones, targeted the central part of the city. Nine residential buildings, a shopping center, and stores were hit.

Unfortunately, eleven people have died—my condolences to their families and loved ones. Among the victims was a State Emergency Service worker. The second strike came while rescuers were already working. Fifty people were injured, all have received the necessary assistance. Among the wounded are seven children, with the youngest being a 10-year-old girl.

There were also other attacks today in the Donetsk, Kharkiv, and southern regions. In Kherson, FPV drones once again targeted civilians.

Russia continues to prove with its cruelty, day after day, that nothing has changed for them in Moscow – they are not thinking about how to end the war, but how to destroy and capture more while the world allows them to continue. Of course, we are doing everything we can to protect lives.

I am grateful to all the leaders, diplomats from partner countries, and civil society figures who support Ukraine, who condemned these Russian strikes, and who call things by their true names.

It’s important that we continue to coordinate all our efforts with our partners, ensuring effective defense and doing everything possible to bring peace closer.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1898453600029851688

 

[Stella123]

The New York Times stated that to report a war crime at Bucha , it wasn't enough to say "The Russians did it" - it had to be a specific unit and soldiers. They did an investigation and identified the 234th regiment

"But an eight-month visual investigation by The New York Times concluded that the perpetrators of the massacre along Yablunska Street were Russian paratroopers from the 234th Air Assault Regiment led by Lt. Col. Artyom Gorodilov."

"Times reporters spent months in Bucha after Russian forces withdrew, interviewing residents, collecting vast troves of security camera footage and obtaining exclusive records from government sources. In New York, Times investigators analyzed the materials and reconstructed the killings along this one street down to the minute. Some of the most damning evidence implicating the 234th included phone records and decoded call signs used by commanders on Russian radio channels."

Warning though - this NY Times article includes a video that has distressing images.

Caught on Camera, Traced by Phone: The Russian Military Unit That Killed Dozens in Bucha (Published 2022)

Exclusive evidence obtained in a monthslong investigation identifies the Russian regiment — and commander — behind one of the worst atrocities in Ukraine.

www.nytimes.com

 

[branmuffin]

I didn’t provide links as I didn’t know which links are allowed. None were MSM, but I wasn’t claiming the content to be factual, just opinion writing. Both are on multiple sites. There is a list that mods put out, but from what I saw, neither article was on any list. One article was by political commentator and historian Victor Davis Hanson (Hoover, Stanford ) and the other was by a guy I’ve never heard of, Thomas Farnan who apparently used to write for Forbes and several PA newspapers.

Jmo

There were quite a few articles regarding Atlanticism. I think I found the ones you noted. One was over 20 years old and the other during Trump's first administration. I think in both cases it's a simplification of the reason why Atlanticism came to be in the first place. It suggests that a discrete group of nations must have all the same mind set to flourish which is patently untrue. That there was some discomfort of the US's role being described as 'global' and the remaining groups as 'regional'.

Part of the problem is that the US for all its generosity over the years always seems to come with strings attached - a quid pro quo - if you will.
I try to envision what the originators had in mind, maybe something like the definition of catholic, no not the religion, but the meaning behind the word - all embracing. All embracing, regardless of our differences. It's like Canada views itself as a mosaic, a multicultural collage, while America views itself as a melting pot, where all cultures should blend together as one.

Atlanticism was a nomenclature created to give members a commonality due to their efforts to end WW2.

 

[UK Girl]

Putin believes that Crimea is Russian. You don't kill your countrymen if they are 'imprisoned' in a country not of their choosing. He's taking that position - Crimeans want to be part of Russia - based on the results of referendum that asked Crimea whether they believed they were part of Russia. The referendum was disseminated after Russia invaded Crimea. And after Putin passported every citizen of Crimea as being a Russian citizen. The phrase 'past performance is an indicator of future results' certainly must have resonated with the citizens of Crimea eg. mass murder, imprisonment, shipped to the Gulag, etc for anyone who bucks the system, criticizes the political party, or engages in protests, decided to keep their mouths shut and voted for their survival not their political leanings.

They are doing that in Donetsk as well . The worst thing is Ukranian men could be forced to kill their own people Putin Forces Russian Passports On Ukrainians In Occupied Land – With 3 Major Consequences, UK Says

 

[Stella123]

This is why it was so outrageous when Trump claimed Ukraine started the war JMO

 

[Stella123]

Russia gifts meat grinders to women on womens day

Fury after Putin gifts grieving war mothers MEAT GRINDERS - as 1,000 of his soldiers die in one day on Ukrainian frontline​

Fury after Putin gifts grieving war mothers MEAT GRINDERS

The gesture from Putin's ruling party, United Russia - was met with an online firestorm as the term 'meat grinder' is widely used to describe the brutal fate of Russian troops sent to die in his high-casualty war.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Marysmith]

Russia gifts meat grinders to women on womens day

Fury after Putin gifts grieving war mothers MEAT GRINDERS - as 1,000 of his soldiers die in one day on Ukrainian frontline​

Fury after Putin gifts grieving war mothers MEAT GRINDERS

The gesture from Putin's ruling party, United Russia - was met with an online firestorm as the term 'meat grinder' is widely used to describe the brutal fate of Russian troops sent to die in his high-casualty war.

www.dailymail.co.uk

For real?

 

[Stella123]

Yes. Either extremely stupid and insensitive or something worse JMO.

 

[Stella123]

For real?

It is the Daily Mail though, but is reported elsewhere as well.

 

[Stella123]

It's in the NYPost as well

Russian ruling party faces backlash for gifting meat grinder to mother of soldier killed in Ukraine war

The meat grinder — along with other household appliances and floral bouquets — was given as part of United Russia’s “Flowers for the Mothers of Heroes” campaign.

nypost.com

 

[poppyquiche]

I just wanted to stake out a spot here. I cringe every single time I see this thread at the top, because this subject is incredibly close to my heart so I’m not always able to steel myself to look. one of my close friends lives in Kyiv. A bunch of other friends do too, and one of our mutual friends died on the front lines over a year ago.

Ukrainians are really important to me. The last three years have been absolutely excruciating.

I’m so disgusted by…y’know. The things you might expect me to be disgusted with right now. And the anger I feel at people within my own community for effectively endorsing and enabling this behavior is so incredibly painful that some days all I can do is cry.

I keep wishing for sanity and decency. I keep wishing for things that just don’t happen. The last handful of years have absolutely broken my heart in a thousand different ways.

 

[PommyMommy]

I just wanted to stake out a spot here. I cringe every single time I see this thread at the top, because this subject is incredibly close to my heart so I’m not always able to steel myself to look. one of my close friends lives in Kyiv. A bunch of other friends do too, and one of our mutual friends died on the front lines over a year ago.

Ukrainians are really important to me. The last three years have been absolutely excruciating.

I’m so disgusted by…y’know. The things you might expect me to be disgusted with right now. And the anger I feel at people within my own community for effectively endorsing and enabling this behavior is so incredibly painful that some days all I can do is cry.

I keep wishing for sanity and decency. I keep wishing for things that just don’t happen. The last handful of years have absolutely broken my heart in a thousand different ways.

 

[Stella123]

I just wanted to stake out a spot here. I cringe every single time I see this thread at the top, because this subject is incredibly close to my heart so I’m not always able to steel myself to look. one of my close friends lives in Kyiv. A bunch of other friends do too, and one of our mutual friends died on the front lines over a year ago.

Ukrainians are really important to me. The last three years have been absolutely excruciating.

I’m so disgusted by…y’know. The things you might expect me to be disgusted with right now. And the anger I feel at people within my own community for effectively endorsing and enabling this behavior is so incredibly painful that some days all I can do is cry.

I keep wishing for sanity and decency. I keep wishing for things that just don’t happen. The last handful of years have absolutely broken my heart in a thousand different ways.

I am so sorry

 

[Marysmith]

I just wanted to stake out a spot here. I cringe every single time I see this thread at the top, because this subject is incredibly close to my heart so I’m not always able to steel myself to look. one of my close friends lives in Kyiv. A bunch of other friends do too, and one of our mutual friends died on the front lines over a year ago.

Ukrainians are really important to me. The last three years have been absolutely excruciating.

I’m so disgusted by…y’know. The things you might expect me to be disgusted with right now. And the anger I feel at people within my own community for effectively endorsing and enabling this behavior is so incredibly painful that some days all I can do is cry.

I keep wishing for sanity and decency. I keep wishing for things that just don’t happen. The last handful of years have absolutely broken my heart in a thousand different ways.

I am so sorry. This is brutal for those of us who are removed and I cannot imagine what it's like for you.