Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #14

[Simply Southern]

China has offered to send people in as part of the peacekeeper team. China will not go into Ukraine as it stands. They are not interested. Btw North Korean soldiers were led to believe that they were fighting South Korea not Ukraine.

Why is Zelensky supposedly to blame for EVERYTHING?? MSN.

China is not Ukraine's friend. They are a trojan horse. They are are a wolf in sheep clothing.

 

[UK Girl]

China is not Ukraine's friend. They are a trojan horse. They are are a wolf in sheep clothing.

Sounds like America tbh

 

[LibraStarr]

China is not Ukraine's friend. They are a trojan horse. They are are a wolf in sheep clothing.

I think others would say you are describing America after recent events.

 

[Deleted member 352484]

Trump will not go down in history as a peacemaker IMO. He will go down in history as a traitor to democracy and assisting a hostile invader. JMO MOO

I disagree. He will go down as a hero for ending the Gaza war and hopefully ending the Ukraine war.

Only Trump was talking about ending the endless death and destruction in Ukraine, nobody else was until he was voted in and insisted we wouldn't be involved in perpetuating the war of attrition there.

 

[UK Girl]

I disagree. He will go down as a hero for ending the Gaza war and hopefully ending the Ukraine war.

Only Trump was talking about ending the endless death and destruction in Ukraine, nobody else was until he was voted in and insisted we wouldn't be involved in perpetuating the war of attrition there.

The Gaza war? by relocating people? which is not likely to even happen tbh

 

[Simply Southern]

"A deal to end the war between Ukraine and Russia “is still very, very far away,” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said,

Ukraine's Zelenskyy says end of war with Russia is 'very, very far away'

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says a deal to end the war between Ukraine and Russia “is still very, very far away."

apnews.com

Yep... He made that statement on March 3rd, Trump stopped funding March 4th.

It was like he was trying to promote Trump.
Moo

 

[UK Girl]

I disagree. He will go down as a hero for ending the Gaza war and hopefully ending the Ukraine war.

Only Trump was talking about ending the endless death and destruction in Ukraine, nobody else was until he was voted in and insisted we wouldn't be involved in perpetuating the war of attrition there.

Incidentally there are more deaths in Ukraine right now due to his actions

Yep... He made that statement on March 3rd, Trump stopped funding March 4th.

It was like he was trying to promote Trump.
Moo

Oh come on Trump had been trying to provoke him for weeks. Very unprofessional

 

[UK Girl]

MSN

 

[Stella123]

I am trying to see it from Trump's point of view and those who think he is right. He wants the US to stop funding a war. He wants the war to stop. He doesn't know how to achieve that so sort of bangs the two countries' heads together like two naughty schoolboys and says - sort it out. And I'll be a go between. But he is not equipped to do that. The Uk and others tried to reason with and appease Putin while he had troops surrounding Ukraine ready to invade. There were many talks. And then one day he just did it anyway.

The problem is Putin. Nobody wants WW3 - so it just took a lot of money to support Ukraine. And believe me, there have also been Uk residents complaining about all the money going to Ukraine when we are being taxed on all sorts and food prices are so high. But the mood has changed since the meeting with Trump and it is more outrage for Ukraine than anything now.

If you look at the maps on some articles linked earlier (I'll try and find them again), Ukraine had pushed Russia right back in the East and were holding the line, and had even taken some Russian territory in the North (someone suggested they might try and agree a territory swap but Russia said no).

Ukraine were doing really well. But now they are, as the Ukrainian minister said, "partially blinded" and unable to know what the Russians are doing to hold off the attacks. Because the intelligence was withdrawn (and now the satellite).

But Trump was being unrealistic about the seriousness of the issues involved. If he was a good diplomat he would have had more patience. Instead of being a bull in a China shop and trying to rush through something.

It was very very wrong to cease aid and intelligence to Ukraine - before he had worked harder on achieving a ceasefire. JMO

 

[Deleted member 352484]

I am trying to see it from Trump's point of view and those who think he is right. He wants the US to stop funding a war. He wants the war to stop.

We're not going to continue to fund a war of attrition. We're not blowing that kind of money on a losing effort any more. Either Zelensky is on board or we're out. He has not shown he is committed to peace.

If Ukraine wants to continue fighting, let them fight. But they're going to do it without us.

Four months ago Trump won the election and his plan was either peace or we're out. His movements shouldn't come as a shock.

 

[Stella123]

How Ukraine’s Zelensky went from Europe’s war hero to Trump’s punching bag

"
Ironically, it was Mr Trump’s “dictator” comment that united Ukrainians behind Mr Zelensky again, with parliament voting fully in favour of the Ukrainian leader’s presidency. Citizens, many of them hardened by three years of war, rallied behind Zelensky in defiance but worried about the future of U.S. backing for Kyiv's war effort.

"The Americans don't know the real situation, what's going on here," said Ella Kazantseva, 54, across from a sea of flags in central Kyiv commemorating Ukraine's war dead. "They don't understand. Everything is beautiful for them."

 

[UK Girl]

"
Ironically, it was Mr Trump’s “dictator” comment that united Ukrainians behind Mr Zelensky again, with parliament voting fully in favour of the Ukrainian leader’s presidency. Citizens, many of them hardened by three years of war, rallied behind Zelensky in defiance but worried about the future of U.S. backing for Kyiv's war effort.

"The Americans don't know the real situation, what's going on here," said Ella Kazantseva, 54, across from a sea of flags in central Kyiv commemorating Ukraine's war dead. "They don't understand. Everything is beautiful for them."

Heartbreaking comment from Ella

 

[Stella123]

We're not going to continue to fund a war of attrition. We're not blowing that kind of money on a losing effort any more. Either Zelensky is on board or we're out. He has not shown he is committed to peace.

If Ukraine wants to continue fighting, let them fight. But they're going to do it without us.

Four months ago Trump won the election and his plan was either peace or we're out. His movements shouldn't come as a shock.

Zelensky has been saying every day this week that he wants a lasting peace. Links in these threads earlier.

“I would like to reiterate Ukraine’s commitment to peace,”

Zelenskyy says he will work under Trump’s leadership as he proposes Ukraine peace plan

Ukrainian president signals willingness to sign US minerals deal as he attempts to rebuild ties after Oval Office clash

www.theguardian.com

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

The media is portraying Russia as weakened. Zelensky has created this narrative.

Russia has the backing of China and North Korea, if he needs it. They are his allies. He's currently using North Korean soldiers. Russian will continue to send human lives in to fight. Putin has no regard for human life. They're just replaceable objects to him. It's just a meat grinder of Ukrainian lives.

What natural process has been disrupted by Trump? There is no natural process and war. It's all vicious, it's ugly, it cost human life.

Moo

Hmmm kind of weird to claim Zelenskyy has somehow single-handedly created a media narrative while refusing to acknowledge Trump doing that exact thing.

 

[Deleted member 352484]

Zelensky has been saying every day this week that he wants a lasting peace. Links in these threads earlier.

He's been wishy washy. As the Trump administration has said aid is on pause, I suppose until Zelensky proves he is committed to Peace.

In the meantime let's see if he gets invited to any more negotiations with the US. I doubt he gets any more invitations to the White House after his little act.

 

[statt#1]

How do you know that? Do you have a crystal ball. And why is it acceptable to allow more civilians in Ukraine to be bombarded without a ceasefire being negotiated before withdrawing aid? I'm sorry but what Trump did was despicable. He should have just stayed out of it instead of causing more trouble. He loves the attention doesn't he?!

Except he couldn't stay out of it because he wants to stop the money going out from the US JMO MOO

What Zelensky did was despicable. It is he who made the grave error. Trump was on the cusp of bringing Putin to the negotiation table. Zelensky messed it up....real bad. This war isn't on Trump, the recent killing isn't either. The death and destruction lies squarely on the warmongers, Zelensky and his kin. Now certain Euro nations wish to expand their nukes, what a GREAT idea that is!

I'll say it again, and it's my point of view, any discussion of this war that doesn't consider NATO expansion eastward, and it's effect in the minds of the Russians, Putin included, fails to see the whole picture, is narrow in scope.

Not one European leader, not Biden, none of 'em sought to bring Putin to the table. Failure to do so has led to the continuation of this war. Business as usual is not what Trump is interested in. No way. No how.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

We're not going to continue to fund a war of attrition. We're not blowing that kind of money on a losing effort any more. Either Zelensky is on board or we're out. He has not shown he is committed to peace.

If Ukraine wants to continue fighting, let them fight. But they're going to do it without us.

Four months ago Trump won the election and his plan was either peace or we're out. His movements shouldn't come as a shock.

It’s not a shock at all. Doesn’t mean I have to be a bootlicker and like it.

 

[UK Girl]

He's been wishy washy. As the Trump administration has said aid is on pause, I suppose until Zelensky proves he is committed to Peace.

In the meantime let's see if he gets invited to any more negotiations with the US. I doubt he gets any more invitations to the White House after his little act.

Lets hope so eh Not nice for any guest to endure that live on tv

 

[UK Girl]

What Zelensky did was despicable. It is he who made the grave error. Trump was on the cusp of bringing Putin to the negotiation table. Zelensky messed it up....real bad. This war isn't on Trump, the recent killing isn't either. The death and destruction lies squarely on the warmongers, Zelensky and his kin. Now certain Euro nations wish to expand their nukes, what a GREAT idea that is!

I'll say it again, and it's my point of view, any discussion of this war that doesn't consider NATO expansion eastward, and it's effect in the minds of the Russians, Putin included, fails to see the whole picture, is narrow in scope.

Not one European leader, not Biden, none of 'em sought to bring Putin to the table. Failure to do so has led to the continuation of this war. Business as usual is not what Trump is interested in. No way. No how.

After what we have seen the past few years it is understandable that Poland wants its own protection. Something Putin should have thought about tbh

 

[Stella123]

This is a very good, neutral, argument about the situation, from all sides, particularly since October last year and more or less up to present date. Unfortunately it has no answers at the end.

Edit. It was written on 2nd January this year, and at the end it suggests the war will end because Russia won't be able to keep it up and will fold. Which is why I am so angry and frustrated that Trump cut aid and intelligence to Ukraine OVERNIGHT - with no warning or preparation, and has actually achieved prolonging the war in my opinion, by weakening Ukraine and strengthening Russia. JMO

"After multiple rounds of sanctions (fifteen from the EU alone), government officials have grown wary of predicting their successful impact.

But recent indicators are increasingly alarming for the Kremlin. With interest rates at 23%, inflation running above 9%, a falling rouble and growth expected to slow dramatically in 2025, the strains on Russia's economy have rarely seemed more acute.

Putin is putting on a brave face. "The sanctions are having an effect," he said during his end of year news conference, "but they are not of key importance."

Along with Russia's staggering losses on the battlefield – western officials estimate that Moscow is losing an average of 1,500 men, killed and wounded, every day – the cost of this war could yet drive Putin to the negotiating table.

But how much more territory will Ukraine have lost - and how many more people will have been killed - by the time that point is reached?"

How the Ukraine War could come to an end in 2025

Ahead of Trump's second term, talk is turning towards how the conflict might finish - and what it would take from each side

www.bbc.co.uk