Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #15

[Stella123]

Live stream continued:

Lukashenko saying he won't be involved with the negotiations. Says they'll take one more question before the conference closes.

Next press question is about Russia and Belarus integration.

Press conference finished.

 

[Stella123]

A bit I missed was apparently Putin was talking about addressing "the cause" of the conflict when discussing a ceasefire. Sky newsreader commentated that Putin's view of the cause was EU pushing East rather than him invading Ukraine. Newsreader says Putin seeking some security guarantees of his own. JMO

 

[Arkay]

All of these are questions that need to be thoroughly studied on both sides. So the idea in itself is correct and we support it, but there are questions that need to be discussed. I think we need to discuss this with our American partners ...maybe have a call with President Trump.

I don’t want to be “partners” with Russia.

Just watching the execution of those five Ukrainian soldiers trapped in a ditch, when I believe legally they are supposed to be instead taken as POWs, is sickening.

Personally I don’t believe this appearance by Putin is one of his doubles. He was facing everyone, shaking hands in his combat fatigues, while televised up close. IMO the doubles are more often shown from the back, climbing into a car or something so as to confuse potential assassins.

Throughout my entire lifetime, the U.S. has either been enemies and/or rivals with Russia/U.S.S.R., for example even in the Space Race and the Olympics. With the exception of them commingling on the International Space Station, there have been mostly endless spies and animosity.

Czar Putin is not likely to kiss Trump’s ring, and this is all proof.

JMO

 

[Stella123]

They present as calm, reasonable "politicans" talking in a calm, reasonable way, which denies the reality of what they are doing (as you say, executing Ukrainian soldiers). It was all very professional. JMO And gaslighting? MOO

That was the line that hit me too - America - our partners.

So US is partners with both Russia and Belarus from that. JMO

 

[Stella123]

Essentially Putin is saying he doesn't want a ceasefire while negotiations take place. He wants a permanent ceasefire and the war to end and agreements have to be reached first.

I think we know what those will be! Ukraine to agree to give up the territories Russia has won and not join Nato. Both things which Rubio said Zelensky might need to have to accept for the war to end. JMO

And as a perk to Trump by the sound of it - offering cheap gas. MOO

 

[Stella123]

5m ago 16:27

Ukraine war latest: Russia is losing, US envoy says - after Putin issues defiant message

Vladimir Putin has sought to reassure Russian citizens that Moscow is winning a "righteous war" in a video address. But Donald Trump's Ukraine envoy has declared otherwise. Follow the latest.

news.sky.com

Witkoff to meet Putin 'imminently'​

Another update to bring you on Donald Trump's envoy Steve Witkoff, who is in Moscow to present the ceasefire plan to Vladimir Putin.

The meeting is expected to begin imminently, a source briefed on the situation has told Reuters.

It comes as Trump has been increasing the pressure on the Russian president to accept a ceasefire deal, with Putin in his news conference moments ago suggesting details still need to be ironed out.

While he said Russia agrees with the proposals, he insisted its position is based on the assumption that it would "remove the initial reasons for the crisis".

We'll keep across any developments and bring them to you on this live page.

 

[Stella123]

I don’t want to be “partners” with Russia.

Just watching the execution of those five Ukrainian soldiers trapped in a ditch, when I believe legally they are supposed to be instead taken as POWs, is sickening.

Personally I don’t believe this appearance by Putin is one of his doubles. He was facing everyone, shaking hands in his combat fatigues, while televised up close. IMO the doubles are more often shown from the back, climbing into a car or something so as to confuse potential assassins.

Throughout my entire lifetime, the U.S. has either been enemies and/or rivals with Russia/U.S.S.R., for example even in the Space Race and the Olympics. With the exception of them commingling on the International Space Station, there have been mostly endless spies and animosity.

Czar Putin is not likely to kiss Trump’s ring, and this is all proof.

JMO

I agree I don't think this one was a double JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

Throughout my entire lifetime, the U.S. has either been enemies and/or rivals with Russia/U.S.S.R., for example even in the Space Race and the Olympics. With the exception of them commingling on the International Space Station, there have been mostly endless spies and animosity.

Czar Putin is not likely to kiss Trump’s ring, and this is all proof.

JMO

<rsbm> and Admin hat off

I can't quite understand what his supporters might be missing about Trump's connection to Putin, going back almost 20 years to at least 2006:

from: Forbes Magazine 2019

The Truth Behind Trump Tower Moscow: How Trump Risked Everything For A (Relatively) Tiny Deal​

It’s getting late, and Felix Sater—a onetime Trump partner, two-time convicted felon and longtime government cooperator—sits in the back of a New York City restaurant, ready for a drink. “A very dirty martini, Russian vodka,” he tells the waiter. “A collusion martini.”

No one outside of the Trump Organization has more firsthand knowledge of Donald Trump's connections to Russia than Felix Sater. In 2006, he scouted a potential deal in Moscow with the president's children Don Jr. and Ivanka. In 2007, he stood alongside Trump at a launch party for a hotel Sater had helped get built, Trump SoHo, which marketed partially to Russian buyers. And during the 2016 presidential campaign, Sater helped plan a giant Trump tower in Moscow.



If it was a tiny deal for DT, people have to ask "What was/is his payoff in his long standing relationship with Russia and his close ties with Putin"? IMO, he's a megalo-maniac and his payoff is power. What more power can he have beyond that of President of the United States of America?

from the Online Library of Liberty:

Lord Acton writes to Bishop Creighton that the same moral standards should be applied to all men, political and religious leaders included, especially since “Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely” (1887)
Found in: Acton-Creighton Correspondence

“Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely”

 

[Stunned]

Vance would finish out Trump’s term until the election in 2028. Then he could run again for President if nominated.

And Moses Mike would be VP?

 

[LoveyG]

I think Trump has bitten off more than he can chew IMO. Does who know who Putin actually is?! MOO

It seems predictable that Putin will demand other things as well as a ceasefire, and that Trump will then pressurise Zelensky to accept them under threat of stopping aid again. JMO MOO

IMO, Trump thinks he is Putin's puppet master while the rest of the world can see that Trump is the puppet.

 

[Summerliz03]

And Moses Mike would be VP?

Yes Speaker of the House becomes the vice president.

 

[Sundog]

dbm

 

[Sundog]

And Moses Mike would be VP?

If you mean Speaker Mike Johnson, then I think they would be a great team. Different styles, but they work together well.

 

[branmuffin]

370K views · 12K reactions | We never forget | By In Ukraine | Facebook
Bucha .President Zelenskyy is what a leader should be . There's no way Putin will agree to anything but a complete surrender . Most will fight till the end because we won't be ruled by Russians they would just slaughter us anyways

Brings to mind the famous quote by Zapata "Better to die on your feet than live on your knees."

 

[branmuffin]

'We all eagerly await the Russian response' - Rubio

US Secretary of State Marco Rubio has said the United States will have contact with Russia today about the agreement reached with Ukraine on a 30-day ceasefire and steps toward ending the war there.

"We all eagerly await the Russian response and urge them strongly to consider ending all hostilities," Mr Rubio said from Shannon Airport after US-Ukraine talks in Saudi Arabia.

"If they say no, then obviously we'll have to examine everything and sort of figure out where we stand in the world and what their true intentions are. I think it'll be if they say no, it'll tell us a lot about what their goals are and what their mindset is."

As it happened: Trump praises 'friendship' with Ireland

Donald Trump welcomed Taoiseach Micheál Martin for the traditional shamrock ceremony for the St Patrick's Day festivities in the US.

www.rte.ie

Geez, you didn't know what Russia's response would be? Nothing intuitive at all based on past experience? Perhaps Mr. Rubio is too wet behind the ears to be Secretary of State.

 

[branmuffin]

Rubio says minerals deal will give US 'vested interest' in Ukraine security

US Secretary of State Marco Rubio has said that an expected minerals deal would give the United States a "vested interest" in Ukraine's security, although he stopped short again of promising formal guarantees.

"I wouldn't couch it as a security guarantee, but certainly, if the United States has a vested economic interest that's generating revenue for our people as well as for the people of Ukraine, we'd have a vested interest in protecting it," Mr Rubio told reporters in Shannon.

"Certainly one of the things that provides for Ukraine's long-term prosperity and security is vibrant economic growth and development," he said.

Mr Rubio has delivered extensive remarks during a stopover this morning in Shannon after arriving from a high stakes meeting with Ukraine in Saudi Arabia.

G7 meeting is not about 'how we're going to take over Canada' - Rubio

Marco Rubio spoke at length during a stopover at Shannon Airport this morning.

While his main focus was on Ukraine, having come from talks in Saudi Arabia, he also discussed issues pertaining to Canada.

Mr Rubio said he would not raise Canada's sovereignty, following taunts by President Donald Trump, when he visits Quebec later for G7 talks.

"We're going to be focused in the G7 and all of those things," he said, mentioning the war in Ukraine.

"That's what the meeting is about. This isn't a meeting about how we're going to take over Canada."

As it happened: Trump praises 'friendship' with Ireland

Donald Trump welcomed Taoiseach Micheál Martin for the traditional shamrock ceremony for the St Patrick's Day festivities in the US.

www.rte.ie

Hmmm, issues pertaining to Canada. I would think not so subtle threats about annexing Canada is pretty much one of the issues that should come up.

 

[branmuffin]

Putin Orders Army To Eject Last Ukrainian Troops From Russian Territory

I was just reading this and wondered how Russia interprets International Humanitarian Law.

The status and protection of third-country nationals in international armed conflict - Humanitarian Law & Policy Blog

What do the Geneva Conventions and other sources of IHL say about fighters who are not nationals of the belligerent States?

blogs.icrc.org

 

[UK Girl]

In the Uk, I believe it's the case that the same party stays in power, but within party, they vote for a new leader MOO

and sometimes that vote can happen a lot

 

[Rolypolyoly]

What tends to happen (mainly with the Conservative party) is if a leader becomes so unpopular, that the party risks losing the next election, they try and change the leader to one that is going to be more popular and get them re-elected. JMO

And the funniest thing about that is, if they hadn't staged their coup and backstabbed Boris, they probably would have stayed in!
(I'm not championing Boris btw, just musing)

 

[UK Girl]

So the world was saying the pressure is now on Putin and Putin is busy holding a press conference with Belarus instead of responding to the "peace proposal". And delaying. JMO

Quoting from the livestream:

Lukashenko speaking in response to a question from the press (presumably about Ukraine):

We are happy to negotiate with Ukraine but Ukraine has to understand that we are coming back into negotiations with Ukraine and we have to ........the situation on the ground.

We have to take into account the current situation, the current facts on the ground..,...if you want to come back, well let's see what's possible.

....over the last three years .....we have mobilised and we have done a lot...

Putin speaking

First of all I would like to thank the President of the United States ........... Second is, we agree with the proposals for the ceasefire, but our position is on the assumption that the ceasefire would lead to a long term peace.

....It looks like a decision taken by Ukrainian side under American pressure... what is the situation on the ground....... I went to Kurst region yesterday ...........the situation there is completely under our control ...........

He claims Ukraine has lost on that territory and negative propaganda about Ukraine in Kurst

In these conditions and in this context, I think it would be great for the Ukrainian side to achieve a peace for 30 days, we are ? for it - however ......... (something about Ukraine surrendering).

Talking about the front line. How are Ukraine going to use this 30 days? Are they going to use it to supply weapons to the front line, ....undergo training? Then we have a question - how are we going to resolve the issues of control or verification. How can we be guaranteed that none of this is going to happen in the future - how are we going to control this..... who is going to give orders to ceasefire and what is the value of these orders........2000 km who is going to determine who and where violated.

All of these are questions that need to be thoroughly studied on both sides. So the idea in itself is correct and we support it, but there are questions that need to be discussed. I think we need to discuss this with our American partners ...maybe have a call with President Trump.





We are not closing any doors.....

What does this have to do with Belarus even?