Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #5

[gitana1]

Every morning, one of the first things I've been doing is checking the news to see if Putin has killed Zelenskyy yet.

I'm actually amazed that he and his cabinet are still alive.

Now that Zelenskyy has returned to his office and revealed his whereabouts to the world, I'm just holding my breath. Putin always tries to exterminate his enemies, especially when they make him look bad in public.

And I peek through my fingers watching the news to see what new group of civilians this butcher has massacred, and which innocuous town has been destroyed.

He’s going to totally destroy Ukraine because he is not about to allow it to become a bulwark for the west. If Ukraine joined NATO and/or the EU, that would mean Western military operations would be set up there. Russia won’t let that happen. Strategically, Ukraine is important to Russia.

And the west is pretty much going to let the country be destroyed because to do otherwise would be to start WWIII with Russia, China, Iran, and some others uniting to prevent Western victory. It’s why Putin aided the dictatorship in Syria. Can’t have a democracy there. Democracies are a threat to nations that aren’t democratic.

I don’t know what can be done.

 

[Simply Southern]

Asked why they were going via the US, he said: "Giving (them) to the Americans to give to the Ukrainians is to say to Russia: 'if you want an argument about this, have it with Washington, don’t have it with us.'"

WOW, so NATO and Poland want tne US to take the hit from Putin? Unbelievable. And the US is the one protecting Poland, we sent the 82nd Airborne, several divisions and units.

Moo....

 

[ilovewings]

I must admit all this pass-the-parcel of jets and missiles is making me a bit nervous. It’s not exactly a covert operation, is it? It might not break the direct rules of war, helping by proxy, but isn’t it just going to enrage Putin even more?

.Why couldnt they have done this secretly instead of blabbing it to the
entire world???

 

[Simply Southern]

On paper the US may transfer or sale them to a private company who then sells them to Ukraine. (Speculation only)

That could have been an option before it was publicly announced. Nope, Putin will know these planes.

Moo

 

[mickey2942]

.Why couldnt they have done this secretly instead of blabbing it to the
entire world???

Afghanistan, Vietnam, on and on...we continue to "fight" Russia in a shadow. And it costs us American lives, money that could be used for our own crumbling infrastructure.

I was in the airport in Tokyo several years ago, the place is amazing. High tech everything. I came home thru LAX, which looked like a third world country in comparison.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Yeah, we traded F series fighter jets in top condition for old Russian planes.

Why the US??? Why not give/trade to NATO?

I don't want the US to make the decision for these planes.

This is a NATO decision, we are there because of NATO. Why is NATO and Polland putting this on the US? Why can't other NATO countries swap a few planes, as well?

All my opinion only...

I guess the US was the first to offer, maybe because it’s not in the region. Or perhaps has the most jets to spare, I don’t know. Other countries may well follow suit, but hopefully these planes won’t be used at all.

 

[Simply Southern]

He’s going to totally destroy Ukraine because he is not about to allow it to become a bulwark for the west. If Ukraine joined NATO and/or the EU, that would mean Western military operations would be set up there. Russia won’t let that happen. Strategically, Ukraine is important to Russia.

And the west is pretty much going to let the country be destroyed because to do otherwise would be to start WWIII with Russia, China, Iran, and some others uniting to prevent Western victory. It’s why Putin aided the dictatorship in Syria. Can’t have a democracy there. Democracies are a threat to nations that aren’t democratic.

I don’t know what can be done.

This is so true, we all want to help Ukraine and we have helped a lot!!! Our hearts break for the people, suffering, lives lost.

Are we prepared for nuclear war. Most of the US Military, troops, aircraft and ships are in Europe. I'm really starting to worry.

Moo...

 

[Simply Southern]

I guess the US was the first to offer, maybe because it’s not in the region. Or perhaps has the most jets to spare, I don’t know. Other countries may well follow suit, but hopefully these planes won’t be used at all.

My question is why should the US have to offer. Poland is TRADING planes. Poland is a NATO country. We are in this to support the NATO partners and they wanna trade planes? Then announced it's all on the US.

I'm not liking this. Its like helping my neighbor out and then he charges me for helping him. Moo

No, we should not have to buy or trade to a country we have thousands of troops, planes, equipment to protect them.

Moo....

 

[CoverMeCagney]

My question is why should the US have to offer. Poland is TRADING planes. Poland is a NATO country. We are in this to support the NATO partners and they wanna trade planes? Then announced it's all on the US.

I'm not liking this. Its like helping my neighbor out and then he charges me for helping him. Moo

No, we should not have to buy or trade to a country we have thousands of troops, planes, equipment to protect them.

Moo....

You’re not just the US when it comes to this war though, you’re NATO, a multinational allied army. You can’t sign up to a club like that but only want to join in if it’s on your turf.

Every single NATO country has sent troops, tanks, ships and planes. They stand together guarding NATO’s borders, as one army.

I know it’s agonising for everyone, but imagine how our websleuthers in Poland and Latvia and their neighbours are feeling right now.

 

[Simply Southern]

Someone really needs to explain Kaliningrad to me

Why is there a need to send in more than a dozen jets every day from Russia?

Why is there a flight there from Moscow arriving at 1.30 am?

Is it like a little teeny Las Vegas without the sun or the showgirls?

Seems to be an important city.
Kaliningrad - Wikipedia

Kaliningrad (/kəˈlɪnɪnɡræd/ kə-lin-in-grad; Russian: Калининград, IPA: [kəlʲɪnʲɪnˈɡrat]), until 1946 known as Königsberg (German pronunciation: [ˈkøːnɪksbɛʁk]; Russian: Кёнигсберг, tr.Kyonigsberg, IPA: [ˈkʲɵnʲɪɡzbʲɪrk]), is the largest city in and the administrative centre of Kaliningrad Oblast, the westernmost oblast of Russia.[12] The city is situated on the Pregolya River, at the head of the Vistula Lagoon on the Baltic Sea, and is the only ice-free port of Russia and the Baltic states on the Baltic Sea. Its population in 2020 is 489,359[13]with up to 800,000 residents in the urban agglomeration.[14][15] Kaliningrad is the second-largest city in the Northwestern Federal District, after Saint Petersburg, the third-largest city in the Baltic region, and the seventh-largest city on the Baltic Sea.

 

[Sundog]

Yeah, we traded F series fighter jets in top condition for old Russian planes.

Why the US??? Why not give/trade to NATO?

I don't want the US to make the decision for these planes.

This is a NATO decision, we are there because of NATO. Why is NATO and Polland putting this on the US? Why can't other NATO countries swap a few planes, as well?

All my opinion only...

Good questions. I agree completely. I heard on the news tonight that the Pentagon was blind-sided by Poland's plan to transfer the mig-29 fighter jets to the German airforce base. Not sure where things stand tonight. Will be watching as the news on this develops.

 

[Amonet]

Even if this isn't ww3, i don't like what the future is stating to look like. Sanctions and energy supply changes are just going to facilitate a fracture in the countries of the globe, a new east-west division that will be harder to bring down than the berlin wall :-(

Russia-Ukraine: Is internet on verge of break-up?

ps I'm having problems with mt left hand and i type bad with one hand.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Its starting to sound like Poland (or someone) is running their mouth when its not a done deal. Hold on. Grabbing link.

Here we go.

Poland's proposal to transfer MiG-29 fighter jets to US to give to Ukraine isn't 'tenable,' Pentagon says - CNNPolitics

 

[LizzyE]

I apologize if this has been posted; both work and family have left “me” time scarce. It goes without saying how infuriating Russian actions (collectively/militarily) have been. Maybe because I am a new first time mother or because I’m a physician or most likely because I believe myself to be a decent human being, but this show of propaganda and straight up exploitation has me unsure if I should scream or cry. Is it possible to do both simultaneously? Rhetorical question...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-children-hospice-z-ukraine-b2031341.html?amp

 

[CSIDreamer]

You’re not just the US when it comes to this war though, you’re NATO, a multinational allied army. You can’t sign up to a club like that but only want to join in if it’s on your turf.

Every single NATO country has sent troops, tanks, ships and planes. They stand together guarding NATO’s borders, as one army.

I know it’s agonising for everyone, but imagine how our websleuthers in Poland and Latvia and their neighbours are feeling right now.

We understand that. But we're all (NATO) bunched up guarding borders and Poland points the finger at the US. Why? We're supposed to be a team.

 

[LadyL]

Every morning, one of the first things I’ve been doing is checking whether some hero has managed to kill Putin yet. And then I log into Websleuths for a full news round up

same

 

[cujenn81]

This is so true, we all want to help Ukraine and we have helped a lot!!! Our hearts break for the people, suffering, lives lost.

Are we prepared for nuclear war. Most of the US Military, troops, aircraft and ships are in Europe. I'm really starting to worry.

Moo...

No way… the US has like 1.3 million active duty personnel (plus roughly 800,000 reservists) spread out across the US and 800+ foreign bases and 10,000+ military aircraft. That’s not to say we are prepared for nuclear war. I’m not sure anyone could ever be prepared for that. But… I have to believe the US would never deploy the majority of our armed forces/military resources elsewhere and leave us sitting ducks.

ETA: The US often provides more than other NATO members because it has more to give. That makes perfect sense to me, and I don’t think the US or other NATO members keep track of contributions in a tit for tat manner (at least, I hope not). As an alliance, all members benefit from the unique contributions of each country.

 

[dotr]

BY SIMON SHUSTER

JANUARY 19, 2022
Alexei Navalny Speaks from Prison: An Exclusive Interview | Time
''Few people have studied Putin as long or as obsessively as Navalny. In his letters, he tries to explain what motivates the Russian President, and what Putin fears. It is not what he claims to be concerned about: the deployment of U.S. forces in Eastern Europe, or the chance that Ukraine might one day join the NATO alliance. “Instead of ignoring this nonsense,” Navalny writes, “the U.S. accepts Putin’s agenda and runs to organize some meetings. Just like a frightened schoolboy who’s been bullied by an upperclassman.”

''What Putin truly fears is what Navalny’s movement seeks—a change of power in Russia, followed by cashiering its corrupt clan of oligarchs and spies. It isn’t NATO that keeps Putin up at night; it’s the space for democratic dissent that NATO opens up along his border. This fear, Navalny argues, is what drives all the conflicts Russia wages with the West. “To consolidate the country and the elites,” he writes, “Putin constantly needs all these extreme measures, all these wars—real ones, virtual ones, hybrid ones or just confrontations at the edge of war, as we’re seeing now.”

Rather than convening talks or offering concessions, Navalny wants the U.S. to pressure the Kremlin from without while Navalny and his supporters pressure it from within. The combination, he believes, will split the elites around Putin, ushering in what Navalny’s followers like to call “the beautiful Russia of the future,” one that is free, democratic, at peace with its neighbors and the West.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

We understand that. But we're all (NATO) bunched up guarding borders and Poland points the finger at the US. Why? We're supposed to be a team.

In a statement, Poland's foreign ministry said: "The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations between the president and the government, are ready to deploy - immediately and free of charge - all their MIG-29 jets to the Rammstein Air Base and place them at the disposal of the government of the United States of America.”

There had obviously been talks with the US but whether they come to fruition remains to be seen. Whatever the case, you’d think a bit more discretion would be sensible. I really hope Russia and Ukraine reach an agreement and NATO can stay well away from enemy lines.

 

[Simply Southern]

Do you think he may withhold oil and natural gas for Europe? It would hurt him financially, but he is already down. I am wondering where his mind is, and if he may be looking for ways to bring others to their knees with him.

I do believe he will impose stiff sanctions on the world. He holds all the aces....nuclear weapons, oil/ gas, China's financial backing.

Moo...