Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #5

[CoverMeCagney]

Poland is doing a truly amazing job coordinating the relief effort and ensuring refugees have safe, warm places to stay, clothes to wear and food to eat. One of our local scout leaders has travelled down there and is astounded by how much everyone is mucking in. Real boots on the ground stuff.

‘They are frozen’: Poland praised for generous welcome to 1m Ukrainians | Poland | The Guardian

 

[Sundog]

Overal duikt het mysterieuze Z-symbool op, maar niemand weet wat het betekent | NU - Het laatste nieuws het eerst op NU.nl

Rutte wants discrimination against Russians in the Netherlands to stop
Prime Minister Mark Rutte called on Tuesday to stop the harassment against Russians in the Netherlands. "We are not helping anyone with this at all and it is not civilized," said the prime minister.

Rutte said he heard increasing reports of "verbal abuse or even worse" against Russian people, organizations and companies in the Netherlands. "I strongly reject it," he says. "We are in conflict with Putin and his government, not with Russians and certainly not with Russians in the Netherlands."

According to the prime minister, individual Russians cannot do anything about what is currently happening in Ukraine. The prime minister notes that many of them are turning away from this "terrible violence".

I agree on this.

Kudos to the PM of the Netherlands.

From whenever the power connection to Chernobyl was severed the “Reserve diesel generators have a 48-hour capacity to power.." and that's it folks, it starts getting hot enough to trigger another meltdown.

Chernobyl staff are not in great physical nor mental shape with no rotation of fresh minds and bodies. They've also been reportedly tortured into making a video (God knows of what) ?

Is it going to take power being cut/damaged to the Zaporizhzhia before...

Ok...do you think NATO should be in it now?

No, NATO should not be in it now.

 

[Tillicum]

I've repeatly ask for a US official who committed to the plane deal. Otherwise its just rumor in my book and taken on a while new life. No one can provide a MSM link, not even Twitter. Yet, the conversation continues for a no fly zone and US to send planes. Clearly against our US Constitution.

We can agree to disagree but I thought we needed back up of these statements. Would seem to me, folks would be talking well about the US, since we are looking to commit another 10 BILLION dollars. Of, course it doesn't make some on the US feel good, with the rhetoric going on. This will be a tuff battle in Congress.

I will express my concerns to Congress, that's where the rubber meets to road in the US. Keeping up this plane story just leave many with a bad taste and may deter the 10 BILLION in funding Biden has requested. Biden made a commitment the US would NOT enter a war.
Moo...

Blinken says NATO countries have "green light" to send fighter jets to Ukraine - YouTube
Mar 6, 2022 • Secretary of State Antony Blinken says the U.S. is considering replacing Polish fighter jets if the Polish government decides to send aircraft to Ukraine.

 

[CSIDreamer]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eu...nning-staff-from-using-words-war-and-invasion

I also posted straight from the UN Twitter yesterday with the word "war" in it.

7 hours ago:

https://twitter.com/UN/status/1501468580868591624?t=8ETWM6w6u46Sl3cGtdcRuw&s=19

From pregnant women to small children, the United Nations is working to support people whose lives have been uprooted by the war in Ukraine.

See how you can stay informed & support our efforts to help those impacted by the suffering and destruction.

UN responds to conflict in Ukraine https://t.co/f7nMYOgGrD

To just keep sharing rumors that have been debunked is irresponsible, IMO

 

[Bit of hope]

Blinken says NATO countries have "green light" to send fighter jets to Ukraine - YouTube

Under script of this video is

Secretary of State Antony Blinken says the U.S. is considering replacing Polish fighter jets if the Polish government decides to send aircraft to Ukraine.

 

[Elley Mae]

Victoria Nuland, the US State Department's undersecretary of State for Political Affairs, said Tuesday she believes the war will end “when Putin realizes that this adventure has put his own leadership standing at risk, with his own military, with his own people, that he is hemorrhaging the lives of the people of Russia, the army of Russia and their future to his own vain ambition.”

War will end when Putin realizes it puts his own leadership at risk, top State Department official says

….


Nuland says P is on an adventure.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I agree, time to take a stand and straighten this out. I wanna hear from NATO. Why are they silent?

Not liking this, especially when the US Department of Defense has issued a public statement and press release the information is NOT true.

Why do so many not believe the US? Hum...rethinking the 10 billion, I am.

We've lost sight of the Ukraine war with Russia. It's not our war, we were to support NATO countries with 6 plus trillion dollars in funds. This does not include what we sent to Ukraine prior to the invasion.

This is making the US look bad,we need to step back and support and let NATO run the show. They are to silent for me.

No ones talking about why Germany and UK didn't ban oil, they continue to keep funding Putin? While US bans Russian oil, at the expense of US citizens.
Moo..

Who said anything about the USA looking bad?!

Every nation is helping out in whichever way they possibly can, whether that be financially, or housing refugees in their own homes, or collecting medical supplies, or providing health care, or driving across a continent to deliver food and other essentials. This isn’t just about money right now, it’s about saving the lives of millions of people and it’s about what they need today, to survive.

And as for the oil, it has been explained why some European countries CANNOT just stop getting Russian oil. Even more people would die without it. Plans will be made but it’s not the immediate priority.

 

[Simply Southern]

"In Marina di Carrara, a small Italian town on the Tuscan coast, one of the world’s biggest, newest and most expensive superyachts — called the Scheherazade — is under scrutiny by the Italian police. Almost as long as a U.S. guided-missile destroyer, it dominates the waterfront.

The yacht, estimated by the website SuperYachtFan to cost about $700 million, has two helicopter decks and is studded with satellite domes. Inside, photos supplied by a former crew member show, is a swimming pool with a retractable cover that converts to a dance floor. Then there’s the fully equipped gym and the gold-plated fixtures in the bathrooms"

The ship’s captain, Guy Bennett-Pearce, a British national, denied that Mr. Putin owned or had ever been on the yacht. “I have never seen him. I have never met him,” he said. He added, in a phone interview from the yacht, that its owner was not on any sanctions list"

You can read more about it on :
A 459-Foot Mystery in a Tuscan Port: Is It a Russian’s Superyacht?

Can't they seize the yacht? Time to step up. We gave up oil and 6.8 Trillion!!!
Moo...

 

[branmuffin]

The land mines are/were apparently on the route out of Mariupol. Although it doesn't say who placed the land mines there.

Sometimes I think that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. An evacuation route being proposed, while perhaps not knowing at the time that the route had already been mined.



A top International Red Cross official told the BBC on Monday that a proposed humanitarian zone in Mariupol, Ukraine, was lined with land mines, the latest sign of the struggle to allow women and children to flee Russia’s war on the country.

“That is why it is so important that the two parties have a precise agreement for us then to be able to facilitate it on the ground”

Stillhart said some Red Cross staff had tried to take the proposed route out of Mariupol before realizing that it was mined.

Russian and Ukrainian officials have tried for days to agree to limited ceasefires that would allow women and children to evacuate to safer areas and give international aid workers safe passage to those needing care.
Land mines littered a proposed route for Ukrainians to flee, Red Cross official says

Has it actually been proven that land mines were set throughout the evacuation routes? I am a little dubious of this claim. It's written everywhere but I've seen no proof of it.

 

[Elley Mae]

Can't they seize the yacht? Time to step up. We gave up oil and 6.8 Trillion!!!
Moo...

The email also elaborates on the reason for the layoffs: “The implications of these sanctions has ended up with a number of companies that support the crew, unable to continue their normal lines of business.” That means that the crew’s employment “is unable to continue as a result of the sanctions imposed.” While Sarnia can no longer pay the crew directly as a result of the sanctions, the email states that final wages will be paid directly by the owner of Dilbar: “As a result of these sanctions, Sarnia yachts are unable to pay our salaries so we are planning for these final salaries, including any unpaid leave due, to be paid to your accounts from the vessel.”

Instead, a small crew employed by German shipbuilder Lürssen will look after the “safety and security” of the ship. Spokespersons for both Usmanov and Lürssen, which owns the Blohm+Voss shipyards where Dilbar has been stationed since October for a refit, declined to comment. A representative for Sarnia Yachts did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Crew Of Russian Billionaire Alisher Usmanov’s Dilbar Yacht Has All Been Fired

 

[worldwatcher]

I've repeatly ask for a US official who committed to the plane deal. Otherwise its just rumor in my book and taken on a while new life. No one can provide a MSM link, not even Twitter. Yet, the conversation continues for a no fly zone and US to send planes. Clearly against our US Constitution.

We can agree to disagree but I thought we needed back up of these statements. Would seem to me, folks would be talking well about the US, since we are looking to commit another 10 BILLION dollars. Of, course it doesn't make some on the US feel good, with the rhetoric going on. This will be a tuff battle in Congress.

I will express my concerns to Congress, that's where the rubber meets to road in the US. Keeping up this plane story just leave many with a bad taste and may deter the 10 BILLION in funding Biden has requested. Biden made a commitment the US would NOT enter a war.
Moo...

Here you go:
Poland agrees to hand over the MiG-i They will not fly to Ukraine

MiG-29 belonging to the Polish aviation

The Polish authorities officially confirmed their readiness to hand over the MiG-29 aircraft. The planes will not fly to Ukrainian airports. They will be handed over to our NATO allies.


Update: Department of Defense declaration
"(...) the decision to hand over Polish aircraft to Ukraine is ultimately up to the Polish government. (...) The prospect of fighters" at the disposal of the US government "departing from the US / NATO base in Germany into the airspace over Ukraine raises serious concerns about the Alliance ... we do not believe that Poland's proposal is defensible, "Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said on Twitter.


Polish proposal
The Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs has cut short the speculation that has been circulating for many days regarding the transfer of Polish planes to the Ukrainian air force. According to the official announcement, Poland is ready to hand over the planes, not to Ukraine, but to the Americans.


"The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations with the President and the Government of the Republic of Poland, are ready to immediately and free of charge transfer all their MiG-29 planes to the base in Ramstein and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America" - reads a laconic communiqué.

Its further part is a postulate to the United States to provide Poland with "used aircraft with similar operational capabilities" for the transferred MiGs. Importantly, Poland is ready to pay for these planes. The only problem is the position of the US Department of Defense, which briefly summed up the Polish proposal: "We have nothing to offer at the moment."


MiG-i 29 in the Polish aviation
The first MiG-i 29s were delivered to Poland in 1989. A batch of 12 brand new machines went to the 1st Fighter Aviation Regiment "Warszawa" stationed in Mińsk Mazowiecki. We bought the next ten machines from the Czechs and we took over 23 from Germany.


Designed in the USSR in the 1970s, the aircraft was developed as a light, twin-engine frontal fighter. It was supposed to be a relatively cheap and simple supplement to air superiority fighters, i.e. more advanced and more capable Su-27 aircraft.

The fighters in service in Poland have undergone a fairly shallow modernization, the main task of which was to achieve interoperability with other machines belonging to NATO. Due to the lack of major improvements, the Polish MiG-i 29 - unlike, for example, the F-16 - did not become fully multi-purpose machines. Their main purpose is air combat.

The MiG-29 is over 17 meters long, has a wingspan of just over 11 meters, and weighs 18 tons in its ready-to-fly configuration. The aircraft can accelerate to the speed of Mach 2.3 and reach an altitude of 17 km. Version 9.12, operated in Poland, can carry two tons of weapons on six suspension nodes - mainly air-to-air missiles, or unguided bombs and air-to-ground missiles.

The planes serving in Poland are heavily used machines. After a long time of trouble-free service, a series of accidents took place several years ago, after which the planes were temporarily grounded. After the break, they returned to service in November 2020.

MiG-i 29 for Ukraine?
The official statement seems to end long speculations about the possible transfer of Polish planes to Ukraine.

It seems that the countries concerned - as long as they agree on compensation for the MiG-i - have found a way to strengthen the Ukrainian air force without risking that Poland will be accused of involvement in the ongoing war. Handing over the planes to the Americans solves this problem - they will decide what will happen to the MiGs, bearing any international repercussions of the decisions made.

(used GT)
Source:
Polska zgadza się przekazać MiG-i 29. Nie polecą do Ukrainy

 

[Deleted member 39678]

If I recall correctly and tell me if I’m wrong but don’t the US want to get their hands on one so that they can disassemble and get valuable information from it ?

Exposed: America Purchased 21 Lethal Russian Mig-29 Fighters
The US bought 21 Mig 29's from Moldova in 1997. As far as I can tell we still have them.

Moldova sold the rest of its air force to Eritrea and Yemen. The newly American MiG-29s would largely disappear into a maze of testing squadrons, intelligence centers and U.S. Air Force “exploitation facilities,” according to Air & Space Magazine.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/t...hased-21-lethal-russian-mig-29-fighters-14486

 

[Simply Southern]

Blinken says NATO countries have "green light" to send fighter jets to Ukraine - YouTube
Mar 6, 2022 • Secretary of State Antony Blinken says the U.S. is considering replacing Polish fighter jets if the Polish government decides to send aircraft to Ukraine.

I don't do You tube, just check the Dept of Defense website and MSM no press release or public statement I cansee.

Who is the video with? Is it Bliken speaking ? Surprise no US news NBC, CNN or FOX are reporting.

Did find this from CNN. US still says NO to planes.

Kamala Harris' trip to Poland and Romania turns fraught after US rejects Polish plan to get jets to Ukraine - CNNPolitics

Vice President Kamala Harris is jetting to Europe Wednesday for a trip that became more complicated after one of her hosts – Poland – caught the United States by surprise with a proposal to provide its Soviet-era fighter jets to Ukraine.

What seemed like a straightforward mission turned more fraught when the Polish foreign ministry announced it was prepared to deploy the jets to the US Air Force’s Ramstein Air Base in Germany, which in theory could then be provided to Ukraine. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has pleaded for more aircraft amid the Russian invasion. But that offer had not been discussed with the US before Poland announced it publicly, and Polish officials did not bring it up with Secretary of State Antony Blinken when he was recently in Poland, either.

It appeared designed to avoid the appearance of Poland directly arming Ukraine in its battle against Russia, but created a conundrum for the United States, which is also intent on avoiding direct conflict with Moscow.

 

[Sundog]

Can't the UN step in and help? Where are they in this????
Moo..

That's what I was wondering. It shouldn't be NATO, that is not their mission.

 

[Elley Mae]

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and the U.A.E.’s Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed al Nahyan both declined U.S. requests to speak to Mr. Biden in recent weeks, the officials said, as Saudi and Emirati officials have become more vocal in recent weeks in their criticism of American policy in the Gulf.

WSJ News Exclusive | Saudi, Emirati Leaders Decline Calls With Biden During Ukraine Crisis

 

[Simply Southern]

Here you go:
Poland agrees to hand over the MiG-i They will not fly to Ukraine

MiG-29 belonging to the Polish aviation

The Polish authorities officially confirmed their readiness to hand over the MiG-29 aircraft. The planes will not fly to Ukrainian airports. They will be handed over to our NATO allies.


Update: Department of Defense declaration
"(...) the decision to hand over Polish aircraft to Ukraine is ultimately up to the Polish government. (...) The prospect of fighters" at the disposal of the US government "departing from the US / NATO base in Germany into the airspace over Ukraine raises serious concerns about the Alliance ... we do not believe that Poland's proposal is defensible, "Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said on Twitter.


Polish proposal
The Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs has cut short the speculation that has been circulating for many days regarding the transfer of Polish planes to the Ukrainian air force. According to the official announcement, Poland is ready to hand over the planes, not to Ukraine, but to the Americans.


"The authorities of the Republic of Poland, after consultations with the President and the Government of the Republic of Poland, are ready to immediately and free of charge transfer all their MiG-29 planes to the base in Ramstein and place them at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America" - reads a laconic communiqué.

Its further part is a postulate to the United States to provide Poland with "used aircraft with similar operational capabilities" for the transferred MiGs. Importantly, Poland is ready to pay for these planes. The only problem is the position of the US Department of Defense, which briefly summed up the Polish proposal: "We have nothing to offer at the moment."


MiG-i 29 in the Polish aviation
The first MiG-i 29s were delivered to Poland in 1989. A batch of 12 brand new machines went to the 1st Fighter Aviation Regiment "Warszawa" stationed in Mińsk Mazowiecki. We bought the next ten machines from the Czechs and we took over 23 from Germany.


Designed in the USSR in the 1970s, the aircraft was developed as a light, twin-engine frontal fighter. It was supposed to be a relatively cheap and simple supplement to air superiority fighters, i.e. more advanced and more capable Su-27 aircraft.

The fighters in service in Poland have undergone a fairly shallow modernization, the main task of which was to achieve interoperability with other machines belonging to NATO. Due to the lack of major improvements, the Polish MiG-i 29 - unlike, for example, the F-16 - did not become fully multi-purpose machines. Their main purpose is air combat.

The MiG-29 is over 17 meters long, has a wingspan of just over 11 meters, and weighs 18 tons in its ready-to-fly configuration. The aircraft can accelerate to the speed of Mach 2.3 and reach an altitude of 17 km. Version 9.12, operated in Poland, can carry two tons of weapons on six suspension nodes - mainly air-to-air missiles, or unguided bombs and air-to-ground missiles.

The planes serving in Poland are heavily used machines. After a long time of trouble-free service, a series of accidents took place several years ago, after which the planes were temporarily grounded. After the break, they returned to service in November 2020.

MiG-i 29 for Ukraine?
The official statement seems to end long speculations about the possible transfer of Polish planes to Ukraine.

It seems that the countries concerned - as long as they agree on compensation for the MiG-i - have found a way to strengthen the Ukrainian air force without risking that Poland will be accused of involvement in the ongoing war. Handing over the planes to the Americans solves this problem - they will decide what will happen to the MiGs, bearing any international repercussions of the decisions made.

(used GT)
Source:
Polska zgadza się przekazać MiG-i 29. Nie polecą do Ukrainy

yea, trade junk for nice F fighters. Did you note the US response from the beginning....from above
Quote bolded bm
we do not believe that Poland's proposal is defensible, "Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said on Twitter.

We've said NO every way possible and the story still spins out of control.

We dont need or want to trade Russian junk for our nice F fighters, NATO has funds, they should broker a deal and leave the US out. This is something Poland concocked to a quite and face the US into tick g them our fighter planes. All my opinion.
I am feeling weary, providing links to provide links to debunk Poland's story.

Makes it harder for Biden to get the 10BILLION everyone counting on. The US citizens are paying for all this, we are taxed to fund this operation.

Moo

 

[CSIDreamer]

Has it actually been proven that land mines were set throughout the evacuation routes? I am a little dubious of this claim. It's written everywhere but I've seen no proof of it.

Here's this. There is a video at the link.

https://twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1500779527777230852?t=Gkv8qnSPonLSO_tLU7A5Ng&s=19

"We've been talking to both parties for days on end"

Dominik Stillhart, Director of operations for the International Committee of the Red Cross, says it's important to get both parties to agree on precise details for humanitarian corridors out of Ukriane

https://t.co/UPjJGPa1Yg https://t.co/3iIrpNOwCN

 

[Elley Mae]

"I’d like to address the mothers, wives, sisters, brides and girlfriends of our soldiers and officers who are in battle now," Putin said Tuesday in a televised address, according to a translation shared by The Telegraph.

"I know how worried you are for your loved ones," he went on. "You can be proud of them just as the whole country is proud and feels for them."

Russia’s defense ministry further revealed Wednesday that some of the conscripts who had been used in war had been captured by Ukrainian forces, according to the Reuters report.

Russia-Ukraine war: Russian Defense Ministry admits use of conscripts in invasion, despite Putin's denials

And on Monday, a group of concerned mothers accused Putin and his military of sending their sons to war "as cannon fodder," according to a report from The Telegraph.

"We were all deceived, all deceived," one woman can be heard shouting at Sergey Tsivilev, governor of the Kuzbass region in Siberia, in a video translated by the Telegraph. "They were sent there as cannon fodder. They are young. They were unprepared."

 

[Elley Mae]

"Who are these ‘experts?’" Koffler continued, specifically naming Evelyn Farkas, a former deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia. "Evelyn Farkas, former top Russia ‘expert’ at the Pentagon? Dumb as a Siberian shoe!"

"Every top Russia ‘expert’ at the Pentagon, the DASD for Russia and Eurasia, for the past several years had NO Russia background or expertise," the author of "Putin's Playbook" added. "Take that in."

The Hill: Foreign policy experts call for 'limited no-fly zone' over Ukraine

Same "experts" who got UKR-RUS into this conflict in the first place, by promoting foolish ideas, not grounded in reality.

Russia expert shreds Biden admin over Ukraine no-fly zone: 'Dumb as a Siberian shoe'

"The problem is this: people who have no business weighing in on national security issues are pushing their dumb narratives into the information domain," she tweeted. "Do these foreign policy ‘experts’ even understand what it means to impose a no-fly zone?"

Russian President Vladimir Putin could consider a no-fly zone declaration to be "escalatory, not de-escalatory," Koffler added. She suggested it could steer Putin toward nuclear engagement.

If the "experts" believe a no-fly zone will make Putin stand down, they are dumb.

 

[sunshineray]

I think there has been a lot of misunderstanding with fighter jets. I was curious to listen to Polish side because they did what they did for a reason and USA is not the only one who can be right..
According to news resources from Poland USA was pressuring Poland to give away jets and Poland from the beginning said clear no and then agreed but said if you want okay but you do that.

snipped from news using google translation

“
In Washington, there is pressure on the administration to get things done. They wanted to do this by shifting the decision to us. And yet this is something that the Russians can respond to, and something that comes at a cost. (...) I can see the fluctuations in this matter - continued the PO politician. - I hope that it can be agreed alliedly. Poland should not be left alone with this matter, he concluded.”

I don’t think its fair to jump on Poland like that they are doing so much for refugees and are so close to Russian border in case of aggression. There is two side of the story always..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wiadomosci.wp.pl/zamieszanie-wokol-mysliwcow-mig-29-dla-ukrainy-radoslaw-sikorski-komentuje-6745339168626305v?amp=1

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-03-07/u-s-lawmakers-put-pressure-on-biden-to-help-with-transfer-of-european-aircraft-to-ukraine?context=amp



as i said its polish politicians perspective. So no its spoken in polish google translation works well.

Poland has and continues to do so much. Just think of it knowing Poland's history of being invaded, it would seem just a hop, skip, and jump for Russia's aggression to come within their borders. I know they feel the need, more than most ptobably, to help Ukraine in any way they can to win this war.

God bless Poland and it's people for all they do. It's good to finally know the steps to the story behind all the back and forth statements of yes, then no.