Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022

[margarita25]

Hey everyone,

Please do not link to the Russian state owned news agency TASS due to the potential for trackbacks and repurcussions at Websleuths.

Thanks for your understanding.

THANK YOU. I WAS GOING TO MENTION THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eta: There are also some other Russian affiliated media sites. I’m thinking @Sillybilly maybe you guys can get the algorithm going on the back end to block/star these sites out, if you’re not on it already.

 

[Sundog]

Chinese banks restrict lending to Russia, dealing blow to Moscow

It was a surprising twist and points to potential cracks showing in the relationship between Moscow and Beijing. The two countries are frequently geopolitical allies who have united in the past against the U.S.; they have formed increasingly close bonds over recent years, with Russia a key supplier of energy to China.

The leaders of the two nations – Xi Jinping of China and Vladimir Putin of Russia – spoke on Friday, during which Xi reportedly urged Putin to solve the crisis with negotiations.

"China supports Russia and Ukraine in resolving the issue through negotiation."

Sounds like the Xi is trying to balance his response and still support Putin while making a few concessions to the West.

 

[Angleterre]

Excerpt:
Driving the news ... Following a call with his British, EU and French counterparts, China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi outlined Beijing's position on Ukraine in five points:

1. China "firmly advocates" abiding by the UN Charter and respecting the territorial integrity of all countries, including Ukraine.
   
   
2. The security of one country cannot be strengthened at the expense of another, and Russia is justified to have concerns about five rounds of NATO expansion.
   
   
3. China believes "all parties" should exercise restraint and protect civilian life and property to prevent a large-scale humanitarian crisis.
   
   
4. China supports "direct dialogue and negotiation between Russia and Ukraine as soon as possible," and believes Ukraine "should be a bridge between East and West, not a frontier of great power confrontation."
   
   
5. The UN Security Council should be used to "facilitate a diplomatic solution and "cool tensions rather than fuel them." China has always opposed UN resolutions that invoke Chapter VII of the UN Charter, which authorizes military and non-military steps to "restore international peace and security."

China lays out 5-point position on Russia's invasion of Ukraine

Is there anyway that someone can translate these 5 points that China have made into an easier way to understand what exactly it is that they are saying because unless I am just tired and my eyes aren’t working and my tired brain has slowed , it seems on the one hand that they support Russia but on the other are stating that peaceful negotiation is the way to move forward.
Please- anyone? I’m a tad confused

 

[GRT]

Feb 25 2022
Here is a list of Russian allies during the Ukraine invasion and the reasons why
''Belarus, China and Iran remain among the countries in support of Russian invasion of Ukraine.''
North Korea
Syria
Nicaragua
''Other countries, who are known to be Russian allies, have yet to take a stance on the conflict. This includes countries in the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) with Russia such as Armenia and Kazakhstan.''

Yeah, Russia has its share of allies that blame NATO rather than Russia. I'm not at all surprised about China, and nor would I be surprised if China took the opportunity to move against Taiwan at this point.

What a royal mess, but I still hope we (the US) doesn't get directly involved. It's just not our fight. Ukraine goes through revolution after revolution it seems, the Orange Revolution, Euromaiden, and I'm not sure what the answer is. Russia will continue to try to pull regions where it has lots of support back into the fold, and if those areas--like the Dongas region want to go, I'm not sure the rest of the world can stop them.

With China and Russia allied--we're not going to have much luck diplomatically. And, it really isn't worth committing troops that could escalate a war and lead to a much, MUCH bigger conflict.

I don't think Russia has any intention of listening to anything we say.

 

[margarita25]

Is there anyway that someone can translate these 5 points that China have made into an easier way to understand what exactly it is that they are saying because unless I am just tired and my eyes aren’t working and my tired brain has slowed , it seems on the one hand that they support Russia but on the other are stating that peaceful negotiation is the way to move forward.
Please- anyone? I’m a tad confused

IMO it is impossible to assess China’s role/real stance in this. JMO. Sadly we have learned way too much about transparency, or lack thereof, in the covid threads.

Iran is also a consideration. Any word from them? I also saw a Sudanese leader basically buddying up with Russia.

Eta: Iran:
‘Rooted in NATO’: Iran responds to Russia’s Ukraine attack

“Tehran, Iran – While Iran says it is opposed to war in Ukraine, it will not outright denounce Russia’s military operation, instead blaming the West for NATO’s presence in the region.

Iran’s foreign minister, Hossein Amirabdollahian, said in his first reaction on Thursday following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine the crisis is “rooted in NATO’s provocations”.

OUCH

 

[Tiff23fr]

Is there anyway that someone can translate these 5 points that China have made into an easier way to understand what exactly it is that they are saying because unless I am just tired and my eyes aren’t working and my tired brain has slowed , it seems on the one hand that they support Russia but on the other are stating that peaceful negotiation is the way to move forward.
Please- anyone? I’m a tad confused

I can offer a perspective. I believe there may be many interpretations dependent upon the filter of the receiver of the bullets/message:

-supports Russia’s concerns of NATO expansion
-all parties should exercise restraint I feel is a message to the US and others
-a perception the UN Security Council is fueling the fire

JMO

 

[margarita25]

Yeah, Russia has its share of allies that blame NATO rather than Russia. I'm not at all surprised about China, and nor would I be surprised if China took the opportunity to move against Taiwan at this point.

What a royal mess, but I still hope we (the US) doesn't get directly involved. It's just not our fight. Ukraine goes through revolution after revolution it seems, the Orange Revolution, Euromaiden, and I'm not sure what the answer is. Russia will continue to try to pull regions where it has lots of support back into the fold, and if those areas--like the Dongas region want to go, I'm not sure the rest of the world can stop them.

With China and Russia allied--we're not going to have much luck diplomatically. And, it really isn't worth committing troops that could escalate a war and lead to a much, MUCH bigger conflict.

I don't think Russia has any intention of listening to anything we say.

Last I heard, Biden has said he will not put US troops on the line to fight this.

 

[GRT]

IMO it is impossible to assess China’s role/real stance in this. JMO. Sadly we have learned way too much about transparency, or lack thereof, in the covid threads.

Iran is also a consideration. Any word from them? I also saw a Sudanese leader basically buddying up with Russia.

Eta: Iran:
‘Rooted in NATO’: Iran responds to Russia’s Ukraine attack

“Tehran, Iran – While Iran says it is opposed to war in Ukraine, it will not outright denounce Russia’s military operation, instead blaming the West for NATO’s presence in the region.

Iran’s foreign minister, Hossein Amirabdollahian, said in his first reaction on Thursday following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine the crisis is “rooted in NATO’s provocations”.

OUCH

Yep, that's pretty much it. Russia's allies are taking a hard stance and blaming NATO.

Let's just hope it's over soon. With minimal casualties.

I'm hearing a lot of conflicting reports but I keep telling myself what Dan Rather always used to say..."Truth is the first casualty of war."

Many of the stories/reports we're getting now will likely change in the coming days and weeks.

 

[GRT]

Last I heard, Biden has said he will not put US troops on the line to fight this.

Yes, I heard that too. And, I'm holding on to that. It's my dearest hope at this point.

 

[margarita25]

IMO the reports of deaths and casualties could be severely underreported. Things are beyond hectic right now to likely get an accurate count. Considering the beyond horrific missile attack videos on social media, I would expect the numbers to be higher. Maybe I’m wrong about this.

 

[Seattle1]

Respectfully, IMO, China saying they are restricting lending to Moscow doesn't make it so.

Chinese Communist Party’s long march of lies - The Sunday Guardian Live

Chinese Officials Can’t Help Lying About the Wuhan Virus

https://gop-foreignaffairs.house.go...d-by-the-Chinese-Communist-Party-CCP-V2-2.pdf

 

[CSIDreamer]

I'm serious about writing to the International Olympic Committee to institute a complete ban and banishment on Russian partipation in any future Olympic events or games.

Can you start a petition somewhere?

 

[margarita25]

Respectfully, IMO, China saying they are restricting lending to Moscow doesn't make it so.

Chinese Communist Party’s long march of lies - The Sunday Guardian Live

Chinese Officials Can’t Help Lying About the Wuhan Virus

https://gop-foreignaffairs.house.go...d-by-the-Chinese-Communist-Party-CCP-V2-2.pdf

I was JUST coming here to post a very harsh opinion basically saying the same thing.

I was just going to say I don’t believe a darn thing the Chinese government says. IMO, it’s quite likely they don’t want the west to succeed. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Tiff23fr]

1997 Debate on NATO Enlargement:

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS
UNITED STATES SENATE​

It is a long read, and one may or may not agree with some of it, but it holds a lot of historical context.

- THE DEBATE ON NATO ENLARGEMENT

 

[margarita25]

Oh heck. He’s really done it now

Russia banned from 2022 Eurovision Song Contest - BBC News

Thank you for this much needed moment of levity, Cags. That was quite humorous.

 

[mickey2942]

My husband has family in Ukraine, his parents are from Ukraine. This is extremely personal to him, and very upsetting.

He was glued to the news during Covid, and the elections, now this...I wish we could "unplug" for a bit. I don't have the time right now to get him away...maybe next weekend.

 

[margarita25]

From the Kyiv Independent

Russia blocks UN Security Council resolution condemning invasion of Ukraine.

Russia has used its veto power to block a United Nations Security Council resolution condemning its invasion of Ukraine. The vote was 11 in favor, one against, and three abstentions. China, which has declined to criticize Russia’s attack, was among the abstentions.

Yeah I’m not getting a good feeling about this China thing, at all. Jmo.

Another thought is they could maybe possibly really be working with Russia behind the scenes, in some capacity, OR NOT. There is nothing to outright support this statement at this time so just speculative conjecture and brainstorming on potentials and possibilities and WHAT IFS.

Whatever the case, Russia alone is a very formidable enemy in my opinion, with their weapons, crazy leader and especially with their proven ability to infiltrate and conduct successful major cyber attacks that some top entities still seem unable to thwart and defend against . Add other nations like China and Iran to this equation, and well, the tactical and destructive ramifications could be endless, not that they already are not. Like @gitana1 said, (hi friend), ready for anything at this point.

Furthermore, with the toughness of the past couple years, thinking about this coming on back to back with the other catastrophe covid, at least with covid, each individual person usually has some element of control, as far as the risks and behaviors they choose. Something like this, we/people are totally and completely powerless when bombs/missiles, etc.are reigning down on you. The citizens of Ukraine, the missiles/Bombs they are trying to outrun...one has little/no control over that kind of thing, especially when you’re hunkered down in your own home.

Confession: I’ve feared Russia since the 80s. And honestly, China (and Iran) for quite some time now.

 

[CSIDreamer]

My husband has family in Ukraine, his parents are from Ukraine. This is extremely personal to him, and very upsetting.

He was glued to the news during Covid, and the elections, now this...I wish we could "unplug" for a bit. I don't have the time right now to get him away...maybe next weekend.

Oh, my gosh. You're all certainly in my prayers. I cannot imagine having family in a war zone.

ETA all those living there, near there, relatives there . . . I just know it's a million times harder than I think it is.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Fifty countries issue joint statement saying Russia abused its power in vetoing UN Security Council resolution

Fifty countries have issued a joint statement saying Russia abused its veto power by blocking a United Nations Security Council resolution condemning the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Russia invades Ukraine: Live updates

 

[Dontknow?]

Ukrainian Ambassador to the US. She mentions the attack on the orphanage linked earlier. How horribly sad & apparently true.

https://twitter.com/i/events/1483255084750282753